Comparing elementary schools on things that matter

[Anonymous]

I'm a first time parent to a new rising PK3. We decided we don't know what we don't know, and we would just go with our local neighborhood in-bound for PK3, so this year's lottery wasn't too stressful for us. But it did get us starting to think about the process. It seems to me that none of the metrics I would actually care about for elementary schools are available online to help me compare schools.

I can go to myschooldc.org and easily find some basics - which schools are near me for what grades, school hours, and if there is after care. Some useless facts like whether there's a uniform or that they offer Zumba.

I can get some information on curriculum on the school or DCPS websites, but it makes it really hard to compare and contrast - they all essentially sound the same.

There's overall test scores - but that's kinda useless without more context (what year do they even take these?) I can see the racial and economic breakdown of the school, but not by year, which is basically useless in DCPS. I can't see any breakdown of which schools are actually seeing higher scores in different demographics, or which schools are seeing the test scores for kids go up the longer they stay in their school.

What about hours of screen time by grade? Outdoor time by grade? Class size? Student to teacher ratios? Do you have to go to open houses to get all this basic info?

How are people actually researching schools? This seems impossible. And going by reputation or "what DCUM thinks" seems like a terrible way to pick a school. Are there resources I'm missing here?

(FWIW, this is essentially a spinoff of the FCPS thread about kinder kids each having their own iPads and other lower elementary kids having to cart chromebooks home to charge each night after spending all day on them (!) and I realized despite "school choice" in DC, I don't actually have the information I need to avoid schools like this.)

[Anonymous]

Other questions: How does differentiation work (if at all)? In class, with pullouts, different classes? What if a kid is significantly above or below grade level, how does that impact their approach? What's their approach to teaching kids to read? How much homework and at what grades?

[Anonymous]

Yes, you need to go to open houses. This isn't rocket science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you need to go to open houses. This isn't rocket science.

I'm the OP. Yes, thank you for your overwhelmingly helpful comment.

I know we'll need to go to open houses. I'm trying to avoid going to 20 of them. Some of these are basically, quantifiable facts (homework, outdoor time, screen time by grade, test score breakdowns, probably a bunch more I'm not thinking of because I'm new at this) that could easily be on a website or in a spreadsheet somewhere. And a lot of this information, even if it's not that quantifiable, could still be available on the web. Is it really not?

I thought DCPS was all about driving toward equity. Not very equitable to force people to physically go to a building to find out if their kid is going to spend all day on a screen at a particular school.

[Anonymous]

I'm slightly blown away by someone who both has all these detailed questions about schools, but also seems to have essentially not played the lottery for PK3 (it sounds like they ranked their IB first and left it at that). To be clear, I think there can be merit to asking a bunch of questions about schools. I also think there can also be merit to deciding your IB is good and you're set. But I'm confused by OP doing both.

I know that spaces open up in non-PK3 years, but if you're a parent who is asking these questions and looking for all this input, why would you not have done it a month ago for the PK3 lottery?

[Anonymous]

You can see PARCC scores here, but I'd caution you about over-interpreting the data. A lot of schools are changing fast, and many have small test-taking populations (since they don't report PARCC scores for kids who join late in the year). So statistically it's not that meaningful.

https://osse.dc.gov/page/2021-22-parcc-and-msaa-results-and-resources

DCPS schools have to take all in-boundary kids, so after preschool they can't predict class sizes in advance. They can tell you their target class sizes but the reality is, it varies. A charter could tell you, but they aren't legally bound to it if they feel they have reason to go higher or lower. Similarly, screen time is not tightly controlled and will likely vary a lot by school and by teacher and by subject and by unit of study. Outdoor time is also going to vary by teacher, season, and weather. They're not going to state an amount to you. Teachers also have a lot of flexibility about homework, and the same homework assignment will take different amounts of time depending on the kid. They're also not going to make advance commitments about pullouts and differentiation. Pullouts are determined by IEPs and they don't know in advance what will be on kids' IEPs. You could probably figure out what reading pedagogy they use, if you educated yourself on the different options and looked at each school's website. For differentiation, they have a number of different options but again, the choice made will depend on a lot of factors, such as whether there is a group of high performers in a classroom or just the one, and whether there's a suitable ability match in a classroom that fits logistically with the kid's schedule. It's not going to be something they can tell you in advance.

Honestly, OP, I know it's hard and overwhelming but you need to check your attitude. DCPS is *not* about driving towards equity, they just like to pretend that. And you getting information that you want in a way that is most convenient for you, and feeling self-pitying when it's a little bit hard, is not really what people mean when they talk about equity. You'll be fine and your kid will be fine. If this is too hard and puts you in a snit, maybe you're not going to like DCPS and should move. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but the reality of DCPS is you have to cope with a lot of things that are less than ideal.

[Anonymous]

Before you get snippy about what is and isn't online, OP, check out the OSSE website. You can view test scores going back many years, at a granular level.

Remember that different people care about different things. You might not care about whether there's a uniform or what bus lines go by the school or whatever, but there definitely are people who care a lot about those things, so don't call it "useless" just because it's useless to you.

People on this site can be very helpful to you if you will let them. But it's better to ask in a constructive way and not just vent. We can educate you about the many resources available, but nobody other than you can decide what is important to your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you need to go to open houses. This isn't rocket science.

I'm the OP. Yes, thank you for your overwhelmingly helpful comment.

I know we'll need to go to open houses. I'm trying to avoid going to 20 of them. Some of these are basically, quantifiable facts (homework, outdoor time, screen time by grade, test score breakdowns, probably a bunch more I'm not thinking of because I'm new at this) that could easily be on a website or in a spreadsheet somewhere. And a lot of this information, even if it's not that quantifiable, could still be available on the web. Is it really not?

I thought DCPS was all about driving toward equity. Not very equitable to force people to physically go to a building to find out if their kid is going to spend all day on a screen at a particular school.

It's really not. Homework can vary by teacher and class. I doubt anyone is tracking "screen time," which is a broad category, and which also could vary by teacher and grade (and weather! Kids might watch a movie during indoor recess if there's inclement weather). Test score breakdowns exist, but I don't think they are available to the general public. I can't speak for all schools, but ours has the parent handbook online, so you could find out things like how much time is scheduled for recess, and the web site has other information about the school. But you have to go to each school's web site to find that. You can go to EdFest, where each school has a booth, to gather some information. But you really don't have to look at every school to decide. For one, every school doesn't have a feasible commute for you, so you eliminate every school that's logistically difficult. No one is going to 20 open houses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can see PARCC scores here, but I'd caution you about over-interpreting the data. A lot of schools are changing fast, and many have small test-taking populations (since they don't report PARCC scores for kids who join late in the year). So statistically it's not that meaningful.

https://osse.dc.gov/page/2021-22-parcc-and-msaa-results-and-resources

DCPS schools have to take all in-boundary kids, so after preschool they can't predict class sizes in advance. They can tell you their target class sizes but the reality is, it varies. A charter could tell you, but they aren't legally bound to it if they feel they have reason to go higher or lower. Similarly, screen time is not tightly controlled and will likely vary a lot by school and by teacher and by subject and by unit of study. Outdoor time is also going to vary by teacher, season, and weather. They're not going to state an amount to you. Teachers also have a lot of flexibility about homework, and the same homework assignment will take different amounts of time depending on the kid. They're also not going to make advance commitments about pullouts and differentiation. Pullouts are determined by IEPs and they don't know in advance what will be on kids' IEPs. You could probably figure out what reading pedagogy they use, if you educated yourself on the different options and looked at each school's website. For differentiation, they have a number of different options but again, the choice made will depend on a lot of factors, such as whether there is a group of high performers in a classroom or just the one, and whether there's a suitable ability match in a classroom that fits logistically with the kid's schedule. It's not going to be something they can tell you in advance.

Honestly, OP, I know it's hard and overwhelming but you need to check your attitude. DCPS is *not* about driving towards equity, they just like to pretend that. And you getting information that you want in a way that is most convenient for you, and feeling self-pitying when it's a little bit hard, is not really what people mean when they talk about equity. You'll be fine and your kid will be fine. If this is too hard and puts you in a snit, maybe you're not going to like DCPS and should move. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but the reality of DCPS is you have to cope with a lot of things that are less than ideal.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you need to go to open houses. This isn't rocket science.

I'm the OP. Yes, thank you for your overwhelmingly helpful comment.

I know we'll need to go to open houses. I'm trying to avoid going to 20 of them. Some of these are basically, quantifiable facts (homework, outdoor time, screen time by grade, test score breakdowns, probably a bunch more I'm not thinking of because I'm new at this) that could easily be on a website or in a spreadsheet somewhere. And a lot of this information, even if it's not that quantifiable, could still be available on the web. Is it really not?

I thought DCPS was all about driving toward equity. Not very equitable to force people to physically go to a building to find out if their kid is going to spend all day on a screen at a particular school.

It's really not. Homework can vary by teacher and class. I doubt anyone is tracking "screen time," which is a broad category, and which also could vary by teacher and grade (and weather! Kids might watch a movie during indoor recess if there's inclement weather). Test score breakdowns exist, but I don't think they are available to the general public. I can't speak for all schools, but ours has the parent handbook online, so you could find out things like how much time is scheduled for recess, and the web site has other information about the school. But you have to go to each school's web site to find that. You can go to EdFest, where each school has a booth, to gather some information. But you really don't have to look at every school to decide. For one, every school doesn't have a feasible commute for you, so you eliminate every school that's logistically difficult. No one is going to 20 open houses.

ETA: I don't think the test score data is on our school's website, but I think OSSE has it available.

[Anonymous]

Helpful questions to ask:
https://www.myschooldc.org/sites/default/files/u421/SY2023-24_MySchoolDC_QuestionsForParentsByParents_FINAL.pdf

You almost certainly don't have to research 20 schools. Maybe 5 of them, attend an open house. Five others, contact the PTO or front office and ask if there is a parent who would speak to you. (I recommend a parent of a kid a couple of years older, if you have an option, so you get a sense of the daily routine for your current grade as well as how the school does later on.) I did this for dozens of prospective parents. You may even find these parents on your own through the playground, neighborhood listservs, etc.

[Anonymous]

OP, let me suggest to you that you are choosing an elementary school, not just a preschool. Yes, you care about outdoor time and screen time now. And those things are important. But you will care less about them in time. That's preschool mommy stuff. You'll care a lot more about whether the school is well-administered, the quality of the teaching, the feeder pattern, and whether your child's academic needs are being met. No screens and lots of outdoor time will not make it okay if those critical things are lacking! So try to take a longer-term view.

Personally, I'd suggest you use the OSSE PARCC spreadsheets to identify schools that are performing well relative to their demographics. If a school has mostly high-income kids and the PARCC scores are still bad, what does that say? (Stuff it, Montessori rationalizers).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a first time parent to a new rising PK3. We decided we don't know what we don't know, and we would just go with our local neighborhood in-bound for PK3, so this year's lottery wasn't too stressful for us. But it did get us starting to think about the process. It seems to me that none of the metrics I would actually care about for elementary schools are available online to help me compare schools.

I can go to myschooldc.org and easily find some basics - which schools are near me for what grades, school hours, and if there is after care. Some useless facts like whether there's a uniform or that they offer Zumba.

I can get some information on curriculum on the school or DCPS websites, but it makes it really hard to compare and contrast - they all essentially sound the same.

There's overall test scores - but that's kinda useless without more context (what year do they even take these?) I can see the racial and economic breakdown of the school, but not by year, which is basically useless in DCPS. I can't see any breakdown of which schools are actually seeing higher scores in different demographics, or which schools are seeing the test scores for kids go up the longer they stay in their school.

What about hours of screen time by grade? Outdoor time by grade? Class size? Student to teacher ratios? Do you have to go to open houses to get all this basic info?

How are people actually researching schools? This seems impossible. And going by reputation or "what DCUM thinks" seems like a terrible way to pick a school. Are there resources I'm missing here?

(FWIW, this is essentially a spinoff of the FCPS thread about kinder kids each having their own iPads and other lower elementary kids having to cart chromebooks home to charge each night after spending all day on them (!) and I realized despite "school choice" in DC, I don't actually have the information I need to avoid schools like this.)

I don't think this data exists, at least not publicly available. I've never seen year-over-year data that controls for how many years students have been at that school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a first time parent to a new rising PK3. We decided we don't know what we don't know, and we would just go with our local neighborhood in-bound for PK3, so this year's lottery wasn't too stressful for us. But it did get us starting to think about the process. It seems to me that none of the metrics I would actually care about for elementary schools are available online to help me compare schools.

I can go to myschooldc.org and easily find some basics - which schools are near me for what grades, school hours, and if there is after care. Some useless facts like whether there's a uniform or that they offer Zumba.

I can get some information on curriculum on the school or DCPS websites, but it makes it really hard to compare and contrast - they all essentially sound the same.

There's overall test scores - but that's kinda useless without more context (what year do they even take these?) I can see the racial and economic breakdown of the school, but not by year, which is basically useless in DCPS. I can't see any breakdown of which schools are actually seeing higher scores in different demographics, or which schools are seeing the test scores for kids go up the longer they stay in their school.

What about hours of screen time by grade? Outdoor time by grade? Class size? Student to teacher ratios? Do you have to go to open houses to get all this basic info?

How are people actually researching schools? This seems impossible. And going by reputation or "what DCUM thinks" seems like a terrible way to pick a school. Are there resources I'm missing here?

(FWIW, this is essentially a spinoff of the FCPS thread about kinder kids each having their own iPads and other lower elementary kids having to cart chromebooks home to charge each night after spending all day on them (!) and I realized despite "school choice" in DC, I don't actually have the information I need to avoid schools like this.)

I don't think this data exists, at least not publicly available. I've never seen year-over-year data that controls for how many years students have been at that school.

I think some schools have it in their annual report-- I believe I saw it in MV's annual report a few years ago.

[Anonymous]

Please don't go to the school I teach at yikes you seem like a lot