Is MCPS that much different than DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often see lots of complaints about homework in MS/HS about it being optional, which I don’t understand. Homework is meant for the student not a grade. It’s for student practice, catch-up, to be prepared to engage in class with the learning/teachers/peers, to allow students to determine if they are comfortable with the material and if not seek help/guidance.

Some will say that if it’s optional, students will just not do it. Maybe true maybe not, but that is the student/family choice. The same way folks are choosing supplemental classes and extracurriculars, they could choose to do the HW.

LOL I truly wonder if you grasp human behavior, psychology and how incentives work. If it is optional and there's no penalty for not doing, 90% of people will opt to not do it.

And I will tell you that 90% of kids don't do optional homework. What would be the point? The teachers don't even look at it to provide feedback, even if you're willing to forego a grade for it.

PP’s point was that if they can skip the homework and get an A on the test, why should anyone care? They have accurately assessed the worth of the work.

While that describes the minority of students, even so this would suggest a lack of rigor suited to the abilities of that student. Effortlessness has never really been a hallmark of a great education.

[Anonymous]

We moved from a DC charter elementary to MCPS and my kids were significantly ahead (like several grade levels) in math, and somewhat in reading. I’ve been unimpressed with Elementary which is a lot of busy work that only seems to make kids hate school. Middle school however has been rigorous with many more opportunities than available in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mcps is getting bad, it has fallen badly but it’s still a lot better than dcps

How do you actually know that? Or is that your general feeling?
Upper NW DC is a lot different from the rest of DCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often see lots of complaints about homework in MS/HS about it being optional, which I don’t understand. Homework is meant for the student not a grade. It’s for student practice, catch-up, to be prepared to engage in class with the learning/teachers/peers, to allow students to determine if they are comfortable with the material and if not seek help/guidance.

Some will say that if it’s optional, students will just not do it. Maybe true maybe not, but that is the student/family choice. The same way folks are choosing supplemental classes and extracurriculars, they could choose to do the HW.

LOL I truly wonder if you grasp human behavior, psychology and how incentives work. If it is optional and there's no penalty for not doing, 90% of people will opt to not do it.

And I will tell you that 90% of kids don't do optional homework. What would be the point? The teachers don't even look at it to provide feedback, even if you're willing to forego a grade for it.

PP’s point was that if they can skip the homework and get an A on the test, why should anyone care? They have accurately assessed the worth of the work.

Don't you think it's unfair to say, "Those who are doing fine without homework are good so there's no problem," without considering that the kids who are currently getting C's could be getting B's if HW was required and not optional. Or more importantly, the kids who are getting D's without homework could be getting C's if HW and practice were required, weighted accordingly and become an ingrained habit.

But when your baseline is that you don't care about optimal or best outcomes for students, then I guess you don't care about setting kids up for success and to reach their full potential.

If the ones getting C’s want B they should do the homework and get help in the parts they don’t understand. No one has said that practice isn’t required, it just isn’t graded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often see lots of complaints about homework in MS/HS about it being optional, which I don’t understand. Homework is meant for the student not a grade. It’s for student practice, catch-up, to be prepared to engage in class with the learning/teachers/peers, to allow students to determine if they are comfortable with the material and if not seek help/guidance.

Some will say that if it’s optional, students will just not do it. Maybe true maybe not, but that is the student/family choice. The same way folks are choosing supplemental classes and extracurriculars, they could choose to do the HW.

LOL I truly wonder if you grasp human behavior, psychology and how incentives work. If it is optional and there's no penalty for not doing, 90% of people will opt to not do it.

And I will tell you that 90% of kids don't do optional homework. What would be the point? The teachers don't even look at it to provide feedback, even if you're willing to forego a grade for it.

PP’s point was that if they can skip the homework and get an A on the test, why should anyone care? They have accurately assessed the worth of the work.

DP.. do you have teens? Many don't care about skipping HW even if they are not getting good grades in class.

For those who want good grades, yes, they need more practice, particularly in math.

I bet some think parents should supplement if they want more work for their kids because it's not the responsibility of the school district to provide that extra work, yet at the same time, decry parents who supplement because it's "unfair"?

Parents wouldn't have to supplement if the schools did their dam* job. But, of course, "equity".

This bolded sounds like a motivation problem and misunderstood expectation of how learning and education work. All of which sounds like something parents should work on with their teen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often see lots of complaints about homework in MS/HS about it being optional, which I don’t understand. Homework is meant for the student not a grade. It’s for student practice, catch-up, to be prepared to engage in class with the learning/teachers/peers, to allow students to determine if they are comfortable with the material and if not seek help/guidance.

Some will say that if it’s optional, students will just not do it. Maybe true maybe not, but that is the student/family choice. The same way folks are choosing supplemental classes and extracurriculars, they could choose to do the HW.

LOL I truly wonder if you grasp human behavior, psychology and how incentives work. If it is optional and there's no penalty for not doing, 90% of people will opt to not do it.

And I will tell you that 90% of kids don't do optional homework. What would be the point? The teachers don't even look at it to provide feedback, even if you're willing to forego a grade for it.

PP’s point was that if they can skip the homework and get an A on the test, why should anyone care? They have accurately assessed the worth of the work.

Don't you think it's unfair to say, "Those who are doing fine without homework are good so there's no problem," without considering that the kids who are currently getting C's could be getting B's if HW was required and not optional. Or more importantly, the kids who are getting D's without homework could be getting C's if HW and practice were required, weighted accordingly and become an ingrained habit.

But when your baseline is that you don't care about optimal or best outcomes for students, then I guess you don't care about setting kids up for success and to reach their full potential.

If the ones getting C’s want B they should do the homework and get help in the parts they don’t understand. No one has said that practice isn’t required, it just isn’t graded.

It's almost as if you don't understand or know any actual teenagers.

[Anonymous]

MCPS seems to have more HS programs than DCPS. The complaints you’re seeing are probably mostly about ES and MS. Since you’re looking at MS and later HS, I would probably strongly consider MCPS, but choose the right school cluster for your child carefully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS seems to have more HS programs than DCPS. The complaints you’re seeing are probably mostly about ES and MS. Since you’re looking at MS and later HS, I would probably strongly consider MCPS, but choose the right school cluster for your child carefully.

Lol no! The complaints I shared were actually all about high school. That’s where MCPS is weakest IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MS seems to be more about social emotional learning rather than any serious academic learning, but I don't think the kids are learning much of either judging by the behavioral issues all around MSs.

I can only speak to our experience at the MS my DC just left - it sucked. Even the so-called more challenging classes were lackluster. Yea, and no HW, sorry, yes there is HW, all of 10min. My kids would finish all their HW in class.

The equity BS is real. Lower the bar so the lower performing kids don't feel so bad about themselves.

HS is a lot better but only because there are tons of AP classes. The "honors" classes are a joke.

Agree with all of this. I have a 9th grader and MS was a huge waste of time. AIM/HIGH were passable classes, but even those were not great.

The expectations for the kids are SO low, and they all meet them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often see lots of complaints about homework in MS/HS about it being optional, which I don’t understand. Homework is meant for the student not a grade. It’s for student practice, catch-up, to be prepared to engage in class with the learning/teachers/peers, to allow students to determine if they are comfortable with the material and if not seek help/guidance.

Some will say that if it’s optional, students will just not do it. Maybe true maybe not, but that is the student/family choice. The same way folks are choosing supplemental classes and extracurriculars, they could choose to do the HW.

LOL I truly wonder if you grasp human behavior, psychology and how incentives work. If it is optional and there's no penalty for not doing, 90% of people will opt to not do it.

And I will tell you that 90% of kids don't do optional homework. What would be the point? The teachers don't even look at it to provide feedback, even if you're willing to forego a grade for it.

PP’s point was that if they can skip the homework and get an A on the test, why should anyone care? They have accurately assessed the worth of the work.

DP.. do you have teens? Many don't care about skipping HW even if they are not getting good grades in class.

For those who want good grades, yes, they need more practice, particularly in math.

I bet some think parents should supplement if they want more work for their kids because it's not the responsibility of the school district to provide that extra work, yet at the same time, decry parents who supplement because it's "unfair"?

Parents wouldn't have to supplement if the schools did their dam* job. But, of course, "equity".

This bolded sounds like a motivation problem and misunderstood expectation of how learning and education work. All of which sounds like something parents should work on with their teen.

lol... ok sure. There is a huge achievement gap in the county (country really). Don't you think schools have already tried to get parents involved? They can't get the parents involved to close the achievement gap, let alone make their kids do HW or even not cut class or behave in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS seems to have more HS programs than DCPS. The complaints you’re seeing are probably mostly about ES and MS. Since you’re looking at MS and later HS, I would probably strongly consider MCPS, but choose the right school cluster for your child carefully.

Lol no! The complaints I shared were actually all about high school. That’s where MCPS is weakest IMO.

dp.. I have two HSers and my share of MCPS complaint. The HS have more choices, programs, AP classes, more magnet options. These programs are one of the very few good things about MCPS.

[Anonymous]

OP here.

Poster from 1/20 11:28 and 18:58 – could you recommend a MCPS cluster?
I know the ones always touted are the Ws + BCC. In terms of housing stock, I can probably financial swing WJ, and parts of BCC, and parts of Wooten. I am Asian American, and am a little worried about the singular academic intensity that a large AsAm population will bring to a school, and I know Wooten has a large AsAm population. My son does travel soccer, and some other stuff, so I am trying to find “balance,” although I know all parent’s have their own definition of balance.

I’d appreciate if trollers don’t turn this into accusations of racism and “it’s all about SES” discussion.

Poster from 1/20 12:19 – how did you find AOPS ELA?
My son did the one for middle schoolers last fall. He liked it, but I couldn’t figure out what he’s getting out of it. From DC, AOPS is a track. So I didn’t continue. I think one of the upsides of moving to MCPS is just being closer to services like AOPS which seem to be more plentiful in MoCo.

Bottom line is, if my kid was self motivated and said, hey mom, the AP Geography class/teacher isn't good, could you get me some self study books, I'll study on my own -- well then, we could be in any school system. But my son is not, and needs external standards, expectations and motivations (eg: mandatory HW, clear grading, etc.) -- when these exists, he does respond, because he does care and is decently compliant. Without these external standards, it becomes me setting them, and creating more conflict between him and me, ... and too hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Poster from 1/20 11:28 and 18:58 – could you recommend a MCPS cluster?
I know the ones always touted are the Ws + BCC. In terms of housing stock, I can probably financial swing WJ, and parts of BCC, and parts of Wooten. I am Asian American, and am a little worried about the singular academic intensity that a large AsAm population will bring to a school, and I know Wooten has a large AsAm population. My son does travel soccer, and some other stuff, so I am trying to find “balance,” although I know all parent’s have their own definition of balance.

I’d appreciate if trollers don’t turn this into accusations of racism and “it’s all about SES” discussion.

Poster from 1/20 12:19 – how did you find AOPS ELA?
My son did the one for middle schoolers last fall. He liked it, but I couldn’t figure out what he’s getting out of it. From DC, AOPS is a track. So I didn’t continue. I think one of the upsides of moving to MCPS is just being closer to services like AOPS which seem to be more plentiful in MoCo.

Bottom line is, if my kid was self motivated and said, hey mom, the AP Geography class/teacher isn't good, could you get me some self study books, I'll study on my own -- well then, we could be in any school system. But my son is not, and needs external standards, expectations and motivations (eg: mandatory HW, clear grading, etc.) -- when these exists, he does respond, because he does care and is decently compliant. Without these external standards, it becomes me setting them, and creating more conflict between him and me, ... and too hard.

AoPS/RSM poster here. My kid likes both, but especially the AoPS ELA. It's project-based so makes it fun and engaging. Kid actually does the virtual campus for AoPS because Gaithersburg is just too far for us. Does RSM in person (there are a few Montgomery County locations), which has been good.

[Anonymous]

Thank you so much for that feedback.

[Anonymous]

OP as someone who was in a very similar position a few years ago, I would say that yes there is a pretty substantive difference. There's a reason people move to the suburbs for schools and not the other way around. but as others have noted it's also dependent on the actual school given how big MCPS is. If you can swing the W's or BCC that would be my recommendation