Empathic & Narcissistic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, many super sensitive people end up narcissists. Narcissism is a response to trauma. If a super sensitive person is raised by someone who hurts them again and again, yes, they can be both empathetic and a narcissist.

All the people with their simplistic view of narcissist are just as monstrous as the narcissist. You're describing human beings with SOCIAL problems as "monsters."

+1

I think most personality disorders are maladaptive coping mechanisms to intergenerational traumas. And people can be abusive in some settings while those very same traits can contribute to success in others.

Humans are complicated.

Oh ffs, not you again. Can't you adult children avoid plastering your own gripes and your off-base armchair psychology on even a single thread?

Tell me what you mean by that?

Because I am sharing from lived experiences as both a victim and a perpetrator of abuse. It’s only through therapy that I can sit with both realities and work in both healing myself which gives me the strength to take responsibility and change my behavior and stop the dysfunctional shame-based patterns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, many super sensitive people end up narcissists. Narcissism is a response to trauma. If a super sensitive person is raised by someone who hurts them again and again, yes, they can be both empathetic and a narcissist.

All the people with their simplistic view of narcissist are just as monstrous as the narcissist. You're describing human beings with SOCIAL problems as "monsters."

+1

I think most personality disorders are maladaptive coping mechanisms to intergenerational traumas. And people can be abusive in some settings while those very same traits can contribute to success in others.

Humans are complicated.

Oh ffs, not you again. Can't you adult children avoid plastering your own gripes and your off-base armchair psychology on even a single thread?

Tell me what you mean by that?

Because I am sharing from lived experiences as both a victim and a perpetrator of abuse. It’s only through therapy that I can sit with both realities and work in both healing myself which gives me the strength to take responsibility and change my behavior and stop the dysfunctional shame-based patterns.

I’m grateful for your honesty. But there are many reasons an individual might have emotional struggles or a personality disorder. Certainly one reason is parental abuse, but genetics, absent or over-indulgent parenting, spousal abuse, and substance abuse are also key reasons. Especially genetics. Whatever your personal experiences, others have different experiences, and it’s impossible to pin every single mental health problem on parents.

There are a couple of really aggressive posters on the Adult Children forum who place all responsibility on the parents and absolve all adult children for any personal responsibility, to the point they’ve made that forum almost unusable. I confused you with them. I’m sorry for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, many super sensitive people end up narcissists. Narcissism is a response to trauma. If a super sensitive person is raised by someone who hurts them again and again, yes, they can be both empathetic and a narcissist.

All the people with their simplistic view of narcissist are just as monstrous as the narcissist. You're describing human beings with SOCIAL problems as "monsters."

+1

I think most personality disorders are maladaptive coping mechanisms to intergenerational traumas. And people can be abusive in some settings while those very same traits can contribute to success in others.

Humans are complicated.

Oh ffs, not you again. Can't you adult children avoid plastering your own gripes and your off-base armchair psychology on even a single thread?

Tell me what you mean by that?

Because I am sharing from lived experiences as both a victim and a perpetrator of abuse. It’s only through therapy that I can sit with both realities and work in both healing myself which gives me the strength to take responsibility and change my behavior and stop the dysfunctional shame-based patterns.

I’m grateful for your honesty. But there are many reasons an individual might have emotional struggles or a personality disorder. Certainly one reason is parental abuse, but genetics, absent or over-indulgent parenting, spousal abuse, and substance abuse are also key reasons. Especially genetics. Whatever your personal experiences, others have different experiences, and it’s impossible to pin every single mental health problem on parents.

There are a couple of really aggressive posters on the Adult Children forum who place all responsibility on the parents and absolve all adult children for any personal responsibility, to the point they’ve made that forum almost unusable. I confused you with them. I’m sorry for that.

Thanks for your clarification. This forum format makes it way too easy to oversimplify the immensely complex and sometimes paradoxical topic of human emotions and relationships. I think most people are here to just vent as it’s cheaper and easier than therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, many super sensitive people end up narcissists. Narcissism is a response to trauma. If a super sensitive person is raised by someone who hurts them again and again, yes, they can be both empathetic and a narcissist.

All the people with their simplistic view of narcissist are just as monstrous as the narcissist. You're describing human beings with SOCIAL problems as "monsters."

+1

I think most personality disorders are maladaptive coping mechanisms to intergenerational traumas. And people can be abusive in some settings while those very same traits can contribute to success in others.

Humans are complicated.

Oh ffs, not you again. Can't you adult children avoid plastering your own gripes and your off-base armchair psychology on even a single thread?

Tell me what you mean by that?

Because I am sharing from lived experiences as both a victim and a perpetrator of abuse. It’s only through therapy that I can sit with both realities and work in both healing myself which gives me the strength to take responsibility and change my behavior and stop the dysfunctional shame-based patterns.

I’m grateful for your honesty. But there are many reasons an individual might have emotional struggles or a personality disorder. Certainly one reason is parental abuse, but genetics, absent or over-indulgent parenting, spousal abuse, and substance abuse are also key reasons. Especially genetics. Whatever your personal experiences, others have different experiences, and it’s impossible to pin every single mental health problem on parents.

There are a couple of really aggressive posters on the Adult Children forum who place all responsibility on the parents and absolve all adult children for any personal responsibility, to the point they’ve made that forum almost unusable. I confused you with them. I’m sorry for that.

Thanks for your clarification. This forum format makes it way too easy to oversimplify the immensely complex and sometimes paradoxical topic of human emotions and relationships. I think most people are here to just vent as it’s cheaper and easier than therapy.

*many, not most

[Anonymous]

Some of you seem to be confusing empathy with emotional intelligence. They aren’t the same.

Emotional intelligence is generally defined as the ability to perceive and manage emotions. It’s what some is you seem to mean when you talk about being able to read others. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence

Emotional intelligence is not correlated with either empathy or narcissism—it can go on many directions. A sociopath can use their ability to perceive others’ emotions to manipulate other people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of you seem to be confusing empathy with emotional intelligence. They aren’t the same.

Emotional intelligence is generally defined as the ability to perceive and manage emotions. It’s what some is you seem to mean when you talk about being able to read others. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence

Emotional intelligence is not correlated with either empathy or narcissism—it can go on many directions. A sociopath can use their ability to perceive others’ emotions to manipulate other people.

+1

I think some narcissists are adept at faking empathy because they have a lot of emotional intelligence. It’s one way narcissists can be very charming. It’s also practical— narcissists only care about their own needs and can use their emotional intelligence to manipulate others into serving their needs. But if you look closely, you’ll see those closest to the narcissist are not actually getting their needs met. Instead, they have been convinced that the narcissist’s needs ARE their needs. Like one thing I’ve noticed is how often a narcissist has a very close friend who dies not seem to have any life or interests away from the narcissist. They are single and perpetually “unlucky in love” but in reality they’ve arranged their life in service to the narcissist and their is no room for them to service needs that don’t also benefit the narc.

If you ask someone like this if the narc has empathy, they’ll say of course, they are always so supportive and empathetic towards me. And the dynamic is insidious because as this codependent person neglects their own life, they only admire the narc more, for having what the codependent doesn’t. In reality this person is being used but the narcissist has effectively convinced them that it is symbiotic and that the narc has more because they are inherently superior.

[Anonymous]

Narcissism is not the reason many of you posters have trouble with people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of you seem to be confusing empathy with emotional intelligence. They aren’t the same.

Emotional intelligence is generally defined as the ability to perceive and manage emotions. It’s what some is you seem to mean when you talk about being able to read others. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence

Emotional intelligence is not correlated with either empathy or narcissism—it can go on many directions. A sociopath can use their ability to perceive others’ emotions to manipulate other people.

Good point. I was thinking about how the "empath" I know really doesn't have emotional intelligence. For example she thinks it's ok tell me my kid is going to struggle getting along with others because he's an only child. When I countered that he really hasn't had any issues detrimental to his development and relationships, she said oh, well, but I'm just so in tune with my own kids that I can't help but be in tune with other kids... And... That's the problem with being an empath, I feel everyone's struggles. Imo, that's just a very tone deaf thing to say to someone. Lots of little digs like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mother is like this but at the end of the day, it's all about her own feelings.

I used to think she cared about feelings because she talked about her own feelings so much! Her problems, her feelings. One time she told me, "You are terribly sensitive, but only about your own feelings, not other people's feelings." I thought and wondered over this statement for 20+ years, and finally realized she was projecting herself onto me. She didn't like that I had my own feelings, and wanted my attention back on her.

When she thought about other people's feelings, it was usually instigated by a dramatic portrayal of feelings on TV, in a movie, or at church. She'd get real agitated about an emotionally stirring testimony by someone else at church, because she wanted that emotion for herself, and was pissed that someone else got it instead. She planned her own testimony, I think, but it would not have gone over well because of her insincerity/lack of larger-scale performance skill.

She was good at smaller-scale performance. She was in a service profession, was an active church member, showed up looking like the model wife/homemaker, and gave the impression of an empathetic person. It was only an impression. In real life, her children were not allowed to have any feelings. She was allowed feelings, and we were expected to cater to her feelings.

If you think someone is both a narc and empathetic, look harder. If they are doing an "empathy show," they want something, your attention in some form, the show is to draw you in.

Sure … caramel mocha

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you seem to be confusing empathy with emotional intelligence. They aren’t the same.

Emotional intelligence is generally defined as the ability to perceive and manage emotions. It’s what some is you seem to mean when you talk about being able to read others. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence

Emotional intelligence is not correlated with either empathy or narcissism—it can go on many directions. A sociopath can use their ability to perceive others’ emotions to manipulate other people.

Good point. I was thinking about how the "empath" I know really doesn't have emotional intelligence. For example she thinks it's ok tell me my kid is going to struggle getting along with others because he's an only child. When I countered that he really hasn't had any issues detrimental to his development and relationships, she said oh, well, but I'm just so in tune with my own kids that I can't help but be in tune with other kids... And... That's the problem with being an empath, I feel everyone's struggles. Imo, that's just a very tone deaf thing to say to someone. Lots of little digs like that.

Arent children of narcs likely to become narcs too??

[Anonymous]

I often wonder if I am narc because I hate (it drives me crazy) the idea of someone having a negative view of me but I definitely shy away from positive attention too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, many super sensitive people end up narcissists. Narcissism is a response to trauma. If a super sensitive person is raised by someone who hurts them again and again, yes, they can be both empathetic and a narcissist.

All the people with their simplistic view of narcissist are just as monstrous as the narcissist. You're describing human beings with SOCIAL problems as "monsters."

+1

I think most personality disorders are maladaptive coping mechanisms to intergenerational traumas. And people can be abusive in some settings while those very same traits can contribute to success in others.

Humans are complicated.

Oh ffs, not you again. Can't you adult children avoid plastering your own gripes and your off-base armchair psychology on even a single thread?

Tell me what you mean by that?

Because I am sharing from lived experiences as both a victim and a perpetrator of abuse. It’s only through therapy that I can sit with both realities and work in both healing myself which gives me the strength to take responsibility and change my behavior and stop the dysfunctional shame-based patterns.

I’m grateful for your honesty. But there are many reasons an individual might have emotional struggles or a personality disorder. Certainly one reason is parental abuse, but genetics, absent or over-indulgent parenting, spousal abuse, and substance abuse are also key reasons. Especially genetics. Whatever your personal experiences, others have different experiences, and it’s impossible to pin every single mental health problem on parents.

There are a couple of really aggressive posters on the Adult Children forum who place all responsibility on the parents and absolve all adult children for any personal responsibility, to the point they’ve made that forum almost unusable. I confused you with them. I’m sorry for that.

Thanks for your clarification. This forum format makes it way too easy to oversimplify the immensely complex and sometimes paradoxical topic of human emotions and relationships. I think most people are here to just vent as it’s cheaper and easier than therapy.

So true!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can a person be both?

Yes, narcissists can fake empathy. It's something they learn to do from childhood and they become very good at it. It is very convincing, especially with covert narcissists. It's called mirroring.

They fake it. It's learned behavior, but they don't FEEL it.

I know a diagnosed narc and they described it as never feeling guilt or empathy like normal people. But, they will act concerned/empathetic. IT's surface level.

The same people can cheat, treat others like crap, lie and not having any remorse or feeling to the victims. Yet, they likely have a social media page outlining all the ways they are ooohhh soooo selfless and charitable. That is to get external validation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can a person be both?

Yes, narcissists can fake empathy. It's something they learn to do from childhood and they become very good at it. It is very convincing, especially with covert narcissists. It's called mirroring.

They fake it. It's learned behavior, but they don't FEEL it.

I know a diagnosed narc and they described it as never feeling guilt or empathy like normal people. But, they will act concerned/empathetic. IT's surface level.

The same people can cheat, treat others like crap, lie and not having any remorse or feeling to the victims. Yet, they likely have a social media page outlining all the ways they are ooohhh soooo selfless and charitable. That is to get external validation.

The most narcissistic woman I know describes herself as empathetic to a fault. . She cheats and lies and when confronted is blameless. It's everyone else's fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes! Nearly every con artist has to manage both.

Exactly.

Some of these people feed off of others moods. Some of them use their empathy to exploit other people.