October open - is the 13 plus session always so long?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They probably should have moved some of the swimmers from Alexandria to Fairland to even the numbers out. But clubs also hate being moved last minute. So there is that.

Other option is to cap entries. But the answer can’t be that clubs don’t like to be moved so those in this one location will be miserable.

Fairland was miserable as well. They need to open up a fourth pool for the November Open.

Good luck finding another pool to host.

I wish they would cap swimmers. There were many clubs letting swimmers swim in the open and other meets this month. That should not be allowed either. Unless you are a hosting team. It was way too many swimmers.

That is poor form. Generally it is one meet a month and you are overloading the system if you are swimming in the open and the other meets. Open should be for those swimmers that were not able to get into a smaller meet that month. Since the opens are for those swimmers/clubs that were not invited to another meet.

Clubs will do it with their 13&U performance groups - they will try and get those swimmers into as many meets as possible. They would be better off offering meets with entry times for those kids and keep it smaller.

I agree it is poor form to take space in multiple meets per month for the same swimmers, but I do not know which clubs do this, if any, for their high level groups. I can tell you RMSC does not. Coaches do not want to spend too much time "resting" for meets or giving up their high yardage weekend practice for a meet. Our higher level groups actually tend to do a meet or two less over the season. January/February for example, if kid has cuts for their target March meet, they don't swim. or they swim a very limited lineup.

It is also not unusual to see ~200 kids in something like 100 free at these big open meets. The RMSC meet had about 145 each for boys and girls in 50 free this weekend and slightly more in 100 free. There was probably some lag this weekend just because it's October and there are new people swimming and running the meet. And it's the first normal October open in years.

I think RMSC is run better than most clubs. I know that there were several clubs that had their higher groups in multiple meets. Just a quick run of the results show the same Marlins, AAC, NCAP, and MAKO swimmers were in the Mako and Open. I guess since the Mako ran the meet it is okay. But kind of crappy for these other clubs to do that.

Yeah, I thought this was pretty normal for higher level groups. Once you reach the higher swim groups, meets jump from once a month to twice a month. As a parent, I had no idea anyone considered this poor form. But I agree that Lee District was waaaaay too crowded & too long. My kid reported on Sat that there was no room to warm up and no room to sit in the team areas. Glad the Nov open has 4 locations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They probably should have moved some of the swimmers from Alexandria to Fairland to even the numbers out. But clubs also hate being moved last minute. So there is that.

Other option is to cap entries. But the answer can’t be that clubs don’t like to be moved so those in this one location will be miserable.

Fairland was miserable as well. They need to open up a fourth pool for the November Open.

Fairland was miserable.

It couldn’t have been as bad as the Alexandria meet. There were more entries there. The 13 and over kids finished close to 1:50 on Saturday. Even if you were an hour behind like we were, you still would have ended at least an hour earlier. It was horrible.

Did this push back the next age group? I was thrilled that we were not in the Open this month.

Yep. Next group was pushed back but no one knew so everyone showed up on time and then had to wait (resulting in it being even more crowded).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They probably should have moved some of the swimmers from Alexandria to Fairland to even the numbers out. But clubs also hate being moved last minute. So there is that.

Other option is to cap entries. But the answer can’t be that clubs don’t like to be moved so those in this one location will be miserable.

Fairland was miserable as well. They need to open up a fourth pool for the November Open.

Good luck finding another pool to host.

I wish they would cap swimmers. There were many clubs letting swimmers swim in the open and other meets this month. That should not be allowed either. Unless you are a hosting team. It was way too many swimmers.

That is poor form. Generally it is one meet a month and you are overloading the system if you are swimming in the open and the other meets. Open should be for those swimmers that were not able to get into a smaller meet that month. Since the opens are for those swimmers/clubs that were not invited to another meet.

Clubs will do it with their 13&U performance groups - they will try and get those swimmers into as many meets as possible. They would be better off offering meets with entry times for those kids and keep it smaller.

I agree it is poor form to take space in multiple meets per month for the same swimmers, but I do not know which clubs do this, if any, for their high level groups. I can tell you RMSC does not. Coaches do not want to spend too much time "resting" for meets or giving up their high yardage weekend practice for a meet. Our higher level groups actually tend to do a meet or two less over the season. January/February for example, if kid has cuts for their target March meet, they don't swim. or they swim a very limited lineup.

It is also not unusual to see ~200 kids in something like 100 free at these big open meets. The RMSC meet had about 145 each for boys and girls in 50 free this weekend and slightly more in 100 free. There was probably some lag this weekend just because it's October and there are new people swimming and running the meet. And it's the first normal October open in years.

I think RMSC is run better than most clubs. I know that there were several clubs that had their higher groups in multiple meets. Just a quick run of the results show the same Marlins, AAC, NCAP, and MAKO swimmers were in the Mako and Open. I guess since the Mako ran the meet it is okay. But kind of crappy for these other clubs to do that.

Yeah, I thought this was pretty normal for higher level groups. Once you reach the higher swim groups, meets jump from once a month to twice a month. As a parent, I had no idea anyone considered this poor form. But I agree that Lee District was waaaaay too crowded & too long. My kid reported on Sat that there was no room to warm up and no room to sit in the team areas. Glad the Nov open has 4 locations.

Usually if two meets it is not an open. They are attending invitationals. You can do as many invitationals you want. But leave the opens to the other teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They probably should have moved some of the swimmers from Alexandria to Fairland to even the numbers out. But clubs also hate being moved last minute. So there is that.

Other option is to cap entries. But the answer can’t be that clubs don’t like to be moved so those in this one location will be miserable.

Fairland was miserable as well. They need to open up a fourth pool for the November Open.

Good luck finding another pool to host.

I wish they would cap swimmers. There were many clubs letting swimmers swim in the open and other meets this month. That should not be allowed either. Unless you are a hosting team. It was way too many swimmers.

That is poor form. Generally it is one meet a month and you are overloading the system if you are swimming in the open and the other meets. Open should be for those swimmers that were not able to get into a smaller meet that month. Since the opens are for those swimmers/clubs that were not invited to another meet.

Clubs will do it with their 13&U performance groups - they will try and get those swimmers into as many meets as possible. They would be better off offering meets with entry times for those kids and keep it smaller.

I agree it is poor form to take space in multiple meets per month for the same swimmers, but I do not know which clubs do this, if any, for their high level groups. I can tell you RMSC does not. Coaches do not want to spend too much time "resting" for meets or giving up their high yardage weekend practice for a meet. Our higher level groups actually tend to do a meet or two less over the season. January/February for example, if kid has cuts for their target March meet, they don't swim. or they swim a very limited lineup.

It is also not unusual to see ~200 kids in something like 100 free at these big open meets. The RMSC meet had about 145 each for boys and girls in 50 free this weekend and slightly more in 100 free. There was probably some lag this weekend just because it's October and there are new people swimming and running the meet. And it's the first normal October open in years.

I think RMSC is run better than most clubs. I know that there were several clubs that had their higher groups in multiple meets. Just a quick run of the results show the same Marlins, AAC, NCAP, and MAKO swimmers were in the Mako and Open. I guess since the Mako ran the meet it is okay. But kind of crappy for these other clubs to do that.

Yeah, I thought this was pretty normal for higher level groups. Once you reach the higher swim groups, meets jump from once a month to twice a month. As a parent, I had no idea anyone considered this poor form. But I agree that Lee District was waaaaay too crowded & too long. My kid reported on Sat that there was no room to warm up and no room to sit in the team areas. Glad the Nov open has 4 locations.

Usually if two meets it is not an open. They are attending invitationals. You can do as many invitationals you want. But leave the opens to the other teams.

The open meets are just that— open. Open to all swimmers from all PVS teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They probably should have moved some of the swimmers from Alexandria to Fairland to even the numbers out. But clubs also hate being moved last minute. So there is that.

Other option is to cap entries. But the answer can’t be that clubs don’t like to be moved so those in this one location will be miserable.

Fairland was miserable as well. They need to open up a fourth pool for the November Open.

Fairland was miserable.

It couldn’t have been as bad as the Alexandria meet. There were more entries there. The 13 and over kids finished close to 1:50 on Saturday. Even if you were an hour behind like we were, you still would have ended at least an hour earlier. It was horrible.

Did this push back the next age group? I was thrilled that we were not in the Open this month.

Yep. Next group was pushed back but no one knew so everyone showed up on time and then had to wait (resulting in it being even more crowded).

Our club let us know that the times were being pushed back a few days before the meet (we were at Claude Moore and the start time for the 9-10s moved from 4:00 to 5:15 for Sat/Sun). The PVS website main page also had the the schedule changes front and center. Note to new parents, check start times in advance to make sure they haven’t been changed in the event your club is not good with communication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They probably should have moved some of the swimmers from Alexandria to Fairland to even the numbers out. But clubs also hate being moved last minute. So there is that.

Other option is to cap entries. But the answer can’t be that clubs don’t like to be moved so those in this one location will be miserable.

Fairland was miserable as well. They need to open up a fourth pool for the November Open.

Fairland was miserable.

It couldn’t have been as bad as the Alexandria meet. There were more entries there. The 13 and over kids finished close to 1:50 on Saturday. Even if you were an hour behind like we were, you still would have ended at least an hour earlier. It was horrible.

Did this push back the next age group? I was thrilled that we were not in the Open this month.

Yep. Next group was pushed back but no one knew so everyone showed up on time and then had to wait (resulting in it being even more crowded).

Wise advice. Opens usually run very long and they get the time line changed often.
Our club let us know that the times were being pushed back a few days before the meet (we were at Claude Moore and the start time for the 9-10s moved from 4:00 to 5:15 for Sat/Sun). The PVS website main page also had the the schedule changes front and center. Note to new parents, check start times in advance to make sure they haven’t been changed in the event your club is not good with communication.

[Anonymous]

Fwiw, my kid’s club does not do an open when they have invitational/championship meets, the first of which is generally December. I thought most of the bigger clubs operate this way. It is just there are so many swimmers in PVS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fwiw, my kid’s club does not do an open when they have invitational/championship meets, the first of which is generally December. I thought most of the bigger clubs operate this way. It is just there are so many swimmers in PVS.

What team? Just curious. We’re at NCap and we do alooooot of meets. My swimmer likes them so it’s fine, but I didn’t realize that some teams don’t do as many meets- I think we were told it has to do with “meet readiness” but can’t remember

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fwiw, my kid’s club does not do an open when they have invitational/championship meets, the first of which is generally December. I thought most of the bigger clubs operate this way. It is just there are so many swimmers in PVS.

What team? Just curious. We’re at NCap and we do alooooot of meets. My swimmer likes them so it’s fine, but I didn’t realize that some teams don’t do as many meets- I think we were told it has to do with “meet readiness” but can’t remember

Most clubs have their groups do one meet a month. Some of the "better" type clubs do have swimmers going to two meets a month. Generally both will be invitationals or qualifier meets. I think that these clubs tend to host a lot of meets and that gives their swimmers a huge advantage. Makos, Marlins, FISH, YORK come to mind.

[Anonymous]

USA swimming has a "4 hour rule" for 12U swim meets, but it doesn't apply to open meets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:USA swimming has a "4 hour rule" for 12U swim meets, but it doesn't apply to open meets.

The rule applies to "open" meets. It doesn't apply to "open water" or "championship" meets-
https://www.usaswimming.org/docs/default-source/governance/governance-lsc-website/rules_policies/2022-rulebook.pdf
Rule 205.3.1- page 73.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:USA swimming has a "4 hour rule" for 12U swim meets, but it doesn't apply to open meets.

It doesn’t apply to 13+ sessions, which is what this thread is about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:USA swimming has a "4 hour rule" for 12U swim meets, but it doesn't apply to open meets.

It doesn’t apply to 13+ sessions, which is what this thread is about.

Ugh, reading this thread makes me think it should.