Amherst or Pomona?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amherst and Claremont are both suburban towns though.

But the climate, their campuses, and their proximity to their respective consortium schools couldn't be more different.

And being a close suburb to LA vs a far suburb to NY/Boston (or a suburb to New Haven/Hartford) is also a huge difference.

For some, these differences aren't a huge deal and one just chooses the orange over the apple (for some other reason that matters to them) if they have a choice between the two. But for others these differences are key.

Claremont is not a close suburb of Los Angeles.

That was in context - if is far closer to LA than Amherst is to anything comparable to LA (it's even closer than Amherst is to Hartford!)/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

I really doubt that if you are talking about white students from the DMV, even with the athletics factor taken into account. Amherst is slightly bigger, 1970 or so to Pomona’s 1700 or so, and Amherst is 51% white (https://www.amherst.edu/admission/diversity) to Pomona’s 34% (https://www.pomona.edu/administration/diversity-pomona/facts-glance). Also, around 1/4 of each incoming class at Pomona is from California most years.

Amherst has 40% white domestic students. It’s athletes (data is I think 2017) are 74% white. Pomona has a high proportion of Asian students — I was referring to URMs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amherst and Claremont are both suburban towns though.

But the climate, their campuses, and their proximity to their respective consortium schools couldn't be more different.

And being a close suburb to LA vs a far suburb to NY/Boston (or a suburb to New Haven/Hartford) is also a huge difference.

For some, these differences aren't a huge deal and one just chooses the orange over the apple (for some other reason that matters to them) if they have a choice between the two. But for others these differences are key.

Claremont is not a close suburb of Los Angeles.

That was in context - if is far closer to LA than Amherst is to anything comparable to LA (it's even closer than Amherst is to Hartford!)/

SoCal is sprawling and huge. Claremont is in a 10 mile circle to almost a million people, and even then you're still 20 miles away from Los Angeles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

I really doubt that if you are talking about white students from the DMV, even with the athletics factor taken into account. Amherst is slightly bigger, 1970 or so to Pomona’s 1700 or so, and Amherst is 51% white (https://www.amherst.edu/admission/diversity) to Pomona’s 34% (https://www.pomona.edu/administration/diversity-pomona/facts-glance). Also, around 1/4 of each incoming class at Pomona is from California most years.

Amherst has 40% white domestic students. It’s athletes (data is I think 2017) are 74% white. Pomona has a high proportion of Asian students — I was referring to URMs.

Here's the data according to the recent CDS:

Amherst- 10% international, 15% Hispanic of any origin, 10% black, 39% white, 0.5% native american, 15% asian, 7.5% multiracial, 2% unknown
Pomona- 11% international, 16% Hispanic of any origin, 9% black, 34% white, 0.7% native american, 17% asian, 8% multiracial, 4% unknown

all in all, very much comparable in diversity if not indistinguishable. no major difference in Asians, URMs, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amherst and Claremont are both suburban towns though.

But the climate, their campuses, and their proximity to their respective consortium schools couldn't be more different.

And being a close suburb to LA vs a far suburb to NY/Boston (or a suburb to New Haven/Hartford) is also a huge difference.

For some, these differences aren't a huge deal and one just chooses the orange over the apple (for some other reason that matters to them) if they have a choice between the two. But for others these differences are key.

Claremont is not a close suburb of Los Angeles.

That was in context - if is far closer to LA than Amherst is to anything comparable to LA (it's even closer than Amherst is to Hartford!)/

SoCal is sprawling and huge. Claremont is in a 10 mile circle to almost a million people, and even then you're still 20 miles away from Los Angeles.

I don't understand what point you are trying to make? Pomona is 35 miles from downtown LA. Amherst is 25 miles from downtown Springfield. These are very different.

And as you note, even being 35 miles from downtown, the population density and how far it extends is much higher in the LA region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

I suspect you have not been to Claremont. There is no comparison. The 5Cs are really on one campus. Crossing from Scripps to CMC to Pomona is like moving from one quad at UMASS to another part of campus. They share a library, sports teams, dining hall access, a bookstore etc. The Amherst consortium may have value, but they are not the same (I went to school in Claremont and just toured UMASS with one of my kids).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

I really doubt that if you are talking about white students from the DMV, even with the athletics factor taken into account. Amherst is slightly bigger, 1970 or so to Pomona’s 1700 or so, and Amherst is 51% white (https://www.amherst.edu/admission/diversity) to Pomona’s 34% (https://www.pomona.edu/administration/diversity-pomona/facts-glance). Also, around 1/4 of each incoming class at Pomona is from California most years.

Amherst has 40% white domestic students. It’s athletes (data is I think 2017) are 74% white. Pomona has a high proportion of Asian students — I was referring to URMs.

Here's the data according to the recent CDS:

Amherst- 10% international, 15% Hispanic of any origin, 10% black, 39% white, 0.5% native american, 15% asian, 7.5% multiracial, 2% unknown
Pomona- 11% international, 16% Hispanic of any origin, 9% black, 34% white, 0.7% native american, 17% asian, 8% multiracial, 4% unknown

all in all, very much comparable in diversity if not indistinguishable. no major difference in Asians, URMs, etc.

That is not an insignificant difference if your kid is white, especially given that Pomona has fewer students. Regardless, the fact that a very significant percentage of Pomona’s students come from California and the west leaves far fewer spots for unhooked DMV kids white or otherwise. I can see wanting to gamble on ED for Pomona. It’s a fabulous school. I just hope families are realistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

I really doubt that if you are talking about white students from the DMV, even with the athletics factor taken into account. Amherst is slightly bigger, 1970 or so to Pomona’s 1700 or so, and Amherst is 51% white (https://www.amherst.edu/admission/diversity) to Pomona’s 34% (https://www.pomona.edu/administration/diversity-pomona/facts-glance). Also, around 1/4 of each incoming class at Pomona is from California most years.

Amherst has 40% white domestic students. It’s athletes (data is I think 2017) are 74% white. Pomona has a high proportion of Asian students — I was referring to URMs.

Here's the data according to the recent CDS:

Amherst- 10% international, 15% Hispanic of any origin, 10% black, 39% white, 0.5% native american, 15% asian, 7.5% multiracial, 2% unknown
Pomona- 11% international, 16% Hispanic of any origin, 9% black, 34% white, 0.7% native american, 17% asian, 8% multiracial, 4% unknown

all in all, very much comparable in diversity if not indistinguishable. no major difference in Asians, URMs, etc.

Strange that international is a unique category here...it is not a race.

Would this mean it might help to be a dual citizen if applying as a white male?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

I suspect you have not been to Claremont. There is no comparison. The 5Cs are really on one campus. Crossing from Scripps to CMC to Pomona is like moving from one quad at UMASS to another part of campus. They share a library, sports teams, dining hall access, a bookstore etc. The Amherst consortium may have value, but they are not the same (I went to school in Claremont and just toured UMASS with one of my kids).

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like these two schools are similar on paper- two well regarded LACs within a 5 college consortium with diverse student bodies relative to peer institutions. Besides Amherst's open curriculum and geographic differences, what makes them different?

DC declined Amherst because of full pay, harsh winter, athlete-non athlete divide, limited dinning options but mostly cost. Another top 20 gave merit scholarship to make the cost of attendance reasonable. I was skeptic of her decision but it worked out great, no regrets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

I really doubt that if you are talking about white students from the DMV, even with the athletics factor taken into account. Amherst is slightly bigger, 1970 or so to Pomona’s 1700 or so, and Amherst is 51% white (https://www.amherst.edu/admission/diversity) to Pomona’s 34% (https://www.pomona.edu/administration/diversity-pomona/facts-glance). Also, around 1/4 of each incoming class at Pomona is from California most years.

Amherst has 40% white domestic students. It’s athletes (data is I think 2017) are 74% white. Pomona has a high proportion of Asian students — I was referring to URMs.

Here's the data according to the recent CDS:

Amherst- 10% international, 15% Hispanic of any origin, 10% black, 39% white, 0.5% native american, 15% asian, 7.5% multiracial, 2% unknown
Pomona- 11% international, 16% Hispanic of any origin, 9% black, 34% white, 0.7% native american, 17% asian, 8% multiracial, 4% unknown

all in all, very much comparable in diversity if not indistinguishable. no major difference in Asians, URMs, etc.

Strange that international is a unique category here...it is not a race.

Would this mean it might help to be a dual citizen if applying as a white male?

the formal term on the CDS is "nonresident alien" so a dual citizen wouldn't be included under that

[Anonymous]

SoCal is sprawling and huge. Claremont is in a 10 mile circle to almost a million people, and even then you're still 20 miles away from Los Angeles.

These schools are not located in remotely comparable communities. One is in a congested LA suburb; one is in essentially a (three-) college town in rural western Mass.

Pomona/Claremont is in LA County, in the endless sprawl between the 210 and the 10 going east from LA and Pasadena toward Ontario and Riverside.

Amherst (whose population density is about half that of Claremont) is a smaller community, most of whose residents are associated with the schools there, and is surrounded by miles of forest and farmland. It's not a "suburb" (except that the brain trust at the Census Bureau arbitrarily decided that most of mostly rural western Mass from the Vermont border to the Connecticut border would be considered part of "metro Springfield"). There may be a small number of people who like Amherst enough to commute 25 miles to Springfield (which, for context, has fewer people than Alexandria), but no one in the history of recorded time has ever commuted from Amherst to Hartford.

It's like comparing Frederick MD and Chantilly VA.

[Anonymous]

My Amherst student and took a class at UMass and will likely take another one there next year. In terms of the vibe, its' really up to what the student wants whether west coast or east coast. We are from the east coast and discouraged our student to apply out west.

[Anonymous]

The above is true but I'm just going to state Claremont CA- the town itself- feels very different from anything else nearby. It is quintessentially an east coast college town with lush tree lined streets (to the point you can easily pinpoint it on a satellite map relative to surrounding areas) and a quaint village of numerous non-chain eateries and independent stores. Actually walkable and bikeable. Definitely not an authentic representation of what most of Southern California is like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The above is true but I'm just going to state Claremont CA- the town itself- feels very different from anything else nearby. It is quintessentially an east coast college town with lush tree lined streets (to the point you can easily pinpoint it on a satellite map relative to surrounding areas) and a quaint village of numerous non-chain eateries and independent stores. Actually walkable and bikeable. Definitely not an authentic representation of what most of Southern California is like.

But still surrounded by the Inland Empire, which is just Surburban dredge.