Amherst or Pomona?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

There is no way this is easier than a 5-15 minute walk (at whatever time you want - no need to time it right for the bus schedule) in Claremont. Furthermore, the Claremont course schedules are all in sync to be fully compatible. And it's a single registration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amherst and Claremont are both suburban towns though.

But the climate, their campuses, and their proximity to their respective consortium schools couldn't be more different.

And being a close suburb to LA vs a far suburb to NY/Boston (or a suburb to New Haven/Hartford) is also a huge difference.

For some, these differences aren't a huge deal and one just chooses the orange over the apple (for some other reason that matters to them) if they have a choice between the two. But for others these differences are key.

Claremont is not a close suburb of Los Angeles.

[Anonymous]

Even as a consortium, the Claremont schools were too small for my student to consider. The Amherst area has thousands more college students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

There is no way this is easier than a 5-15 minute walk (at whatever time you want - no need to time it right for the bus schedule) in Claremont. Furthermore, the Claremont course schedules are all in sync to be fully compatible. And it's a single registration.

How are these schools able to maintain a SLAC feel if there are 5 of them all on top of each other?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

I really doubt that if you are talking about white students from the DMV, even with the athletics factor taken into account. Amherst is slightly bigger, 1970 or so to Pomona’s 1700 or so, and Amherst is 51% white (https://www.amherst.edu/admission/diversity) to Pomona’s 34% (https://www.pomona.edu/administration/diversity-pomona/facts-glance). Also, around 1/4 of each incoming class at Pomona is from California most years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

There is no way this is easier than a 5-15 minute walk (at whatever time you want - no need to time it right for the bus schedule) in Claremont. Furthermore, the Claremont course schedules are all in sync to be fully compatible. And it's a single registration.

How are these schools able to maintain a SLAC feel if there are 5 of them all on top of each other?

Because each one is ridiculously small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

There is no way this is easier than a 5-15 minute walk (at whatever time you want - no need to time it right for the bus schedule) in Claremont. Furthermore, the Claremont course schedules are all in sync to be fully compatible. And it's a single registration.

I am not saying it is. But it is still easy, especially when you can hop on a bus that comes every 10 minutes to get you there in 10 (or walk in 20-25). I am not saying one consortium is better; I am saying the 5-college one is actually meaningful and used — contrary to how it is being represented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

There is no way this is easier than a 5-15 minute walk (at whatever time you want - no need to time it right for the bus schedule) in Claremont. Furthermore, the Claremont course schedules are all in sync to be fully compatible. And it's a single registration.

How are these schools able to maintain a SLAC feel if there are 5 of them all on top of each other?

Because each one is ridiculously small.

But add up the kids: we are talking a mid-sized college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

There is no way this is easier than a 5-15 minute walk (at whatever time you want - no need to time it right for the bus schedule) in Claremont. Furthermore, the Claremont course schedules are all in sync to be fully compatible. And it's a single registration.

How are these schools able to maintain a SLAC feel if there are 5 of them all on top of each other?

Because each one is ridiculously small.

But add up the kids: we are talking a mid-sized college.

NP but we visited the Claremont colleges over the summer and were really surprised at this juxtaposition. Each campus feels like a small college, but they abut each other and very easy to get from one to the other. Each campus looks very different and has a different vibe. It’s like walking from one room to another, all in the same house. DS has Claremont McKenna top on his list. He has the stats, but it’s hard to know whether to do ED given how poor the DMV area’s track record is for landing unhooked kids there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even as a consortium, the Claremont schools were too small for my student to consider. The Amherst area has thousands more college students.

In my experience, Amherst and UMass students barely interact or acknowledge one another. Amherst students tend to be snobby and insular about using the consortium. I can't find any numbers but I'd doubt that more than 25% of Amherst students ever take a class at the other schools.

The Claremont consortium is considerably more integrated. The percent of Pomona students cross-enrolling is in the 80% range by graduation. Dining halls are open to all even if you don't cross-enroll. Most organizations are multi-college or 5 College. The furthest distance walking from one campus to the other is 20 minutes. The walk from the bottom part of UMass to the top part of Amherst C, the closest of the schools, is 30 minutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amherst and Claremont are both suburban towns though.

But the climate, their campuses, and their proximity to their respective consortium schools couldn't be more different.

And being a close suburb to LA vs a far suburb to NY/Boston (or a suburb to New Haven/Hartford) is also a huge difference.

For some, these differences aren't a huge deal and one just chooses the orange over the apple (for some other reason that matters to them) if they have a choice between the two. But for others these differences are key.

Claremont is not a close suburb of Los Angeles.

Amherst is not a suburb of anywhere, by the way. It is an old town where you can see Emily Dickinson’s grave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

There is no way this is easier than a 5-15 minute walk (at whatever time you want - no need to time it right for the bus schedule) in Claremont. Furthermore, the Claremont course schedules are all in sync to be fully compatible. And it's a single registration.

I am not saying it is. But it is still easy, especially when you can hop on a bus that comes every 10 minutes to get you there in 10 (or walk in 20-25). I am not saying one consortium is better; I am saying the 5-college one is actually meaningful and used — contrary to how it is being represented.

It definitely doesn't take 10 minutes by bus. Amherst to UMass and Hampshire is 20 minutes, MHC is 30 minutes, and Smith is 45 minutes. Walking to UMass is minimum 25 minutes, longer if you're at the south part of Amherst going to a north part of UMass (ie. Greenway Dorms at Amherst to the CS department at UMass is 45 minutes).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even as a consortium, the Claremont schools were too small for my student to consider. The Amherst area has thousands more college students.

In my experience, Amherst and UMass students barely interact or acknowledge one another. Amherst students tend to be snobby and insular about using the consortium. I can't find any numbers but I'd doubt that more than 25% of Amherst students ever take a class at the other schools.

The Claremont consortium is considerably more integrated. The percent of Pomona students cross-enrolling is in the 80% range by graduation. Dining halls are open to all even if you don't cross-enroll. Most organizations are multi-college or 5 College. The furthest distance walking from one campus to the other is 20 minutes. The walk from the bottom part of UMass to the top part of Amherst C, the closest of the schools, is 30 minutes.

Maybe for an old person: top of Amherst to that part of UMass is more like 20 minutes (it could be longer depending where you are going on each campus, but never more than 30).

But this is what you do from Amherst: walk 5 minutes. Get pizza slice downtown. Walk 5 more minutes, get coffee downtown. Then, drink your coffee while walking the remaining 10-15 minutes to the class at UMass (ignoring the bus you could have taken). Think like a college kid: this is cool. It is not a hardship. (Granted, some kids — and their parents? — are lame and might think differently.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

There is no way this is easier than a 5-15 minute walk (at whatever time you want - no need to time it right for the bus schedule) in Claremont. Furthermore, the Claremont course schedules are all in sync to be fully compatible. And it's a single registration.

How are these schools able to maintain a SLAC feel if there are 5 of them all on top of each other?

Because each one is ridiculously small.

But add up the kids: we are talking a mid-sized college.

Yes, but all of them are still independent SLACs and well-regarded/endowed at that. All are residential schools where the average class is 15-20 students, and professor-student interaction is emphasized. And although the consortium makes the experience feel larger, nearly everyone's identity is tied to their home school. They modeled themselves after the Oxford/Cambridge model of colleges and it's a pretty unique representation of it in the USA

[Anonymous]

Geography is the obvious difference.

Inclusive environment versus exclusive environment is a bit less obvious at first sight, but a simple google search about race relations and lacrosse at Amherst College should yield results about multiple incidents.