Is how we teach school for little kids outdated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s a lot of research showing that kids learn most effectively through self-driven activities and play. But its easier to keep them at desks all day memorizing stuff so they can take a test to measure their “learning.” I wish public school would start catching up to private/charters on this. It’s another way of enforcing class rigidity - the wealthy get individualized education in engaging environments, learning to think critically and creatively and explore their interests, the poor and middle class learn to sit quietly, follow instructions, and complete busy work.

My public school kid doesn't sit at a desk all day memorizing stuff. (Honestly, I wish they'd have to memorize a little more.) She has plenty of activities in pairs or groups, class discussion, things that require moving around, and the desk work tends to be practicing math problems, which is necessary to learn math, or writing assignments in ELA.

[Anonymous]

Yes it’s awful!!!

[Anonymous]

Why shouldn’t my kid love school? Why shouldn’t adults love their jobs? It’s a pretty large chunk of the day to be doing something that you don’t want to be doing.

[Anonymous]

I have a girl who loves school and sits well.

I still don't like the way school is structured. My dd became a huge people pleaser and brown noser because that's what's encouraged in schools. I really don't like that push. What about independent thought?

I also feel bad for the little boys. I really don't think school is geared towards them at young ages. I see the little boys melting down and having trouble- and why? Why can't school be more interactive? I know the answer- the classrooms have too many different levels that they're trying to teach. In second grade you still have some kids who don't know English, barely know their letters and then some reading chapter books. We need more differentiation in schools. Different classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a girl who loves school and sits well.

I still don't like the way school is structured. My dd became a huge people pleaser and brown noser because that's what's encouraged in schools. I really don't like that push. What about independent thought?

I also feel bad for the little boys. I really don't think school is geared towards them at young ages. I see the little boys melting down and having trouble- and why? Why can't school be more interactive? I know the answer- the classrooms have too many different levels that they're trying to teach. In second grade you still have some kids who don't know English, barely know their letters and then some reading chapter books. We need more differentiation in schools. Different classrooms.

This is the problem. Schools aren’t allowed to separate by ability so the whole class gets to suffer as a result.

[Anonymous]

I want someone to give a straightforward answer why they can't sort classes by ability. I asked every teacher and admin I know socially and they say something like "research shows kids do better in a mixed group" which we all know is bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want someone to give a straightforward answer why they can't sort classes by ability. I asked every teacher and admin I know socially and they say something like "research shows kids do better in a mixed group" which we all know is bullshit.

The lower level kids benefit from being around higher level learners (if there aren’t kids t be owing toys at their heads and ripping posters off the wall, of course). So the 6, 7, 8 year olds get to be role models and nobody gets to learn.

Pick any public school and sub for one week and you will find that this is no exaggeration.

[Anonymous]

This is partly why we started homeschooling. My kid could not sit still or as quiet for as long as a school required. He had so much energy to burn. Finally found a school that had several play breaks outside every day unless there was lightening, hail, or sleet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want someone to give a straightforward answer why they can't sort classes by ability. I asked every teacher and admin I know socially and they say something like "research shows kids do better in a mixed group" which we all know is bullshit.

The lower level kids benefit from being around higher level learners (if there aren’t kids t be owing toys at their heads and ripping posters off the wall, of course). So the 6, 7, 8 year olds get to be role models and nobody gets to learn.

Pick any public school and sub for one week and you will find that this is no exaggeration.

Yes this. It helps the lower kids to have smart or well behaved kids in their class. It doesn't help the smart kids at all. And I think society as a whole needs the high achieving students to have classes geared towards them. We're dumbing down our classes too much to help the lowest kids.

(And my kids are not the highest performing, so I'm not talking about my kids)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want someone to give a straightforward answer why they can't sort classes by ability. I asked every teacher and admin I know socially and they say something like "research shows kids do better in a mixed group" which we all know is bullshit.

Disproportionality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Homeschool s the way to go. 3 hours 1:1 teaching then you do whatever. Plenty of time for hands on learning and explorations, social groups, play dates, field trips, etc.

OP, I was just like your son. I was bored out of my gourd from 1st & 2nd grade in public school. 6 weeks in to 2nd grade, my mom finally figured out that the local public school had stripped out most of the content to level (down) students.

Starting in 3rd grade, I went to an academically challenging private school until end of high school. That was wildly better, but not perfect (no school is perfect). We could not really afford it, but as a family various other spending was cut back to make the budget work.

There are a range of private school options in metro DC, with varying price points, varying philosophies, and varying degrees of academic challenge. There are both secular and religious/parochial options locally. The trick is to find a school which is a “good fit” for your child and your family. “Best” is subjective and what is best for your DC might not be the same as best for a different person’s DC. Now is a good time to explore your options, as now is at the start of the private school admissions year. We are doing a similar search now for our own DC.

Now, with my own DC, we would homeschool if we could, but we can’t make that work. My colleagues who homeschool have had great success, including a child who went on to U. Cambridge in the UK. If you can homeschool, I’d read “The Well-Trained Mind” by Susan Wise Bauer for background, though I probably would not buy her curriculum. For math, I’d suggest using Saxon Math - but crucially the “Homeschool Edition” or a pre-2009 texbook - and not other versions. RainbowResource.com sells many different curricula and has useful comparison charts.

Montessori-style schooling is another good option through 5/6th grade, but one ought to investigate multiple Montessori schools and compare them. Montessori schools vary widely in style and in how academically solid they are. My experience is that formal AMI or AMS certification is not a good indicator of whether a Montessori school does a good job with academics. Some certified schools are great, while other certified schools are not great.

OP, a place to start might be a post in the DCUM Private School forum describing what you are looking to have and to avoid in a school, locations that work for you, and grade range you are interested in. Watch for trolls or school staff with advocacy postings, however.

Good luck ,

[Anonymous]

The above post was very thoughtful. I had the same concerns for my son and found a local private school that used Saxon Math as well as Bauer's curriculum. While I really liked the curriculum I felt too uncomfortable with the religious aspect of the school as we are a Catholic family and the school was LCMS. We ended up moving to Catholic school and it is so much better -- more challenging, much smaller class, and no severe behavioral problems that were giving my quiet kid extreme anxiety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So as a teacher you want me to let go of the whole gaining work and critical thinking skills to become a democratic citizen and contributing member of our society for……. Sailing.

Ok- I mean what with global warming out door survival skills (how to deal with extreme flooding and heat) will be more important anyway so I can see your point.

We need teachers like you to leave the profession. God you sound crazy 😨

Op I agree with you. It’s a long, boring day for many kids. My son was well behaved and loved by his teachers, but was miserable at school. He didn’t like school until 7th grade. He’s almost done with high school and still talks about how much he hated elementary school! But he’s happy in high school. I hope things get better for your son.

No you don’t.

I’m taking OP’s argument to an extreme sure and meant to be funny. But either way, people in Jackson don’t have water, Europe is too dry for river cruises and poor Pakistan!

On a more serious note, OP look into Montessori, it may work well for your family!

Also, here is an article by the NYtimes questioning school and the purpose of school from different perspectives.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/01/opinion/schools-education-america.html?

Dp. You didn't take his argument to an extreme. You didn't even follow his "argument," much less extend it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want someone to give a straightforward answer why they can't sort classes by ability. I asked every teacher and admin I know socially and they say something like "research shows kids do better in a mixed group" which we all know is bullshit.

Too many black and brown students would be in the lower groups so that’s why they don’t do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So as a teacher you want me to let go of the whole gaining work and critical thinking skills to become a democratic citizen and contributing member of our society for……. Sailing.

Ok- I mean what with global warming out door survival skills (how to deal with extreme flooding and heat) will be more important anyway so I can see your point.

We need teachers like you to leave the profession. God you sound crazy 😨

Op I agree with you. It’s a long, boring day for many kids. My son was well behaved and loved by his teachers, but was miserable at school. He didn’t like school until 7th grade. He’s almost done with high school and still talks about how much he hated elementary school! But he’s happy in high school. I hope things get better for your son.

No you don’t.

I’m taking OP’s argument to an extreme sure and meant to be funny. But either way, people in Jackson don’t have water, Europe is too dry for river cruises and poor Pakistan!

On a more serious note, OP look into Montessori, it may work well for your family!

Also, here is an article by the NYtimes questioning school and the purpose of school from different perspectives.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/01/opinion/schools-education-america.html?

Dp. You didn't take his argument to an extreme. You didn't even follow his "argument," much less extend it.

Whatever.

Op said their kid is bored in school and “learns a lot in summer” camp. Meaning they learn a new skill: no way the kid has memorized time tables during summer camp, so it is clearly cool new skill like sailing.

By all means, sailing is a skill, but if I were to teach, let’s say tying knots, or boat parts in Northern Virginia where I live, parents would have a FIT.

Meanwhile, I grew up in Anne Arundel county back in the day and we ALL had to take drown proofing and boating class. We had to pass both the drown proofing test and the coast guard boating class in the 5th grade.

So YEAH sailing/boating can be a class, in a public school.

It is a life skill and knowing boating skills is helpful, but the “my kid goes to Harvard” crowd would be SO upset if class time were taken up for this.

Yes, I find it funny that I learned boating as a skill and yes, I think it is funny that people nowadays are funny because they underestimate life skills, but then claim their kids don’t like school.