City vs. Suburbs - argh!

[Anonymous]

I grew up in a city and am raising my kids in the suburbs. I had a ton of fun as a kid but suburbs are really designed for families - cities are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We stayed. I don't like driving. My husband was not interested in maintaining a lawn. I would have liked more space, but I prefer this lifestyle. Now that my kids are in middle school and high school, they travel to school, to sports and to meet up with friends on their own.

And I bet they are growing up pretty damn fast, when it comes to sex and drugs.

My son has grown up in a suburbs that’s about as urban as parts of Manhattan, and he and his friends are so much more innocent and sober than his suburban cousins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone idealizes NYC. It is fabulous but Let’s be honest, your 3 and 5 year old don’t give two craps about visiting museums. Chances are you will do that one every 3 month and you can just drive in from the suburbs. Also, unless you have a driver and are really wealthy, normal living is a slog (everything takes longer and is effort!) Get a big house with a big yard, have your kids sign up for sports and form a community in the burbs. No brainer!

New York has amazing playgrounds. Good playgrounds are a lot more fun than backyards.

You need a lot of luck to be able to bring up a kid in NYC or it’s inner suburbs without much money, but, if you are lucky, then growing up in or around the city is a lot of fun. Every stoop is a new world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is your HHI? This is the deciding factor

Pretty key consideration as it relates to ease and stability for example renting a two bedroom in a four floor walk up vs owning a comfortable apartment.

[Anonymous]

I feel this struggle too. The biggest pause for me is community. The ease of access to community in our NYC neighborhood with kids is one of the top places I’ve ever lived. I worry about being able to recreate that in the suburbs. Otherwise I’d take the closet space and a neighborhood outdoor pool for the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We stayed. I don't like driving. My husband was not interested in maintaining a lawn. I would have liked more space, but I prefer this lifestyle. Now that my kids are in middle school and high school, they travel to school, to sports and to meet up with friends on their own.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Too many people don’t know when the dance is over and it’s time to leave.

All too often a lot of transplant overspend their time in nyc. Frankly, if you’re not affluent in terms of networks — NOT income, it’s time to gtfo of nyc.

The nyc privates are a beast and for the very very wealthy.

I have to say, the top NYC privates offer unparalleled education. The suburban publics don’t come even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too many people don’t know when the dance is over and it’s time to leave.

All too often a lot of transplant overspend their time in nyc. Frankly, if you’re not affluent in terms of networks — NOT income, it’s time to gtfo of nyc.

The nyc privates are a beast and for the very very wealthy.

I have to say, the top NYC privates offer unparalleled education. The suburban publics don’t come even close.

This is not true and there is data to prove this is not true.

There is tons of data shows that the kids at specialized high schools in NYC get far higher test scores and SAT scores than the kids at the most elite private schools in Manhattan but still go on to better colleges than the poor/working class kids at specialized high schools like Stuyvesant.

It has nothing to do with the education at the private schools being superior but everything to do with most of the kids at the private schools are born wealth/afflluent. Many of whom have legacy and a network that regular kids from average background don't have.

Anything associated with wealth is automatically seen as superior. Because private schools have wealthy student bodies you conflate that with a superior education. Data shows the opposite.

The schools in Scarsdale, Larchmont, Rye, Mamaroneck, ect. and other affluent neighborhoods in the tri-state area are just as good as the top privates in NYC.

That said, the network at elite privates is unparalleled. The education? Not so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:City kids and suburban kids live different lifestyles. Most suburban NYC high schools seem to really emphasize sports. If your kid is a great athlete, that's a good thing. Overall, you're going to find better facilities and more free opportunities in the suburbs than in City schools. It also tends to be the athletes who get into top colleges, at least if you have no other hooks like URM, legacy, potential big donor parents, etc.

There are sports teams in City high schools--especially if your kids are at private schools-- but jocks aren't at the top of the social pyramid. Lots of kids are into performing and visual arts, and more academic/intellectual activities, e.g., chess. Those things also exist at some suburban schools, but they just don't have the social cache sports do at most schools. In the City, sports aren't valued more than the other stuff---in fact, at many City schools they are valued less.

City kids also can get around on their own or with a small group of friends from an earlier age. Drinking and driving during the teenage years are a non-issue in the City. And if your kid does go to a party or other get-together where things get out of control, it's easy to get out of a bad situation by going to the nearest subway or calling Uber or Lyft. There's no need to call for a parent and wait.

Also, don't assume you have to send your kids to private schools. One thing Adams has backed off from is shutting down the gifted and talented programs in public schools. There are good public schools in the City. If your kids are lucky enough to get into the Anderson Program, Hunter Elementary, NEST+m etc. there's no need to go to private school. Lots of local public schools, especially those with gifted and talented, are just fine too. For high school, personally I think that if you've got a smart kid who can get into either one of the test in schools like Bronx Science, Brooklyn Tech, Hunter, Staten Island Tech, Stuy, etc. or one of the top schools using different admissions criteria, like Bard Early College, Townsend Harris, etc. there's no need for private school.

Plus, should the social scene at your kids' schools be less than ideal for them, it's really easy to participate in other ECs and make friends through them. It is my impression--it may vary by suburb--that many more suburban kids lead social lives limited to other kids who attend the same school. The exception seems to be athletes who may become close with other members of their traveling teams. City kids tend to know more kids who attend other schools, either through the neighborhood, participation in a religious congregation, or ECs that involve kids from many schools, e.g., TADA!.

It's a personal/family choice. If I'd had a kid who was a terrific athlete, I think suburbia might have been a better choice. But for a kid whose strengths were in other areas, I don't.

I grew up on Long Island and have at least a dozen cousins going through various school districts in Nassau and Suffolk and have not found the sport thing to be true. Academics and music are bigger than sports in most school districts. Intel science fairs/ competitions, NYSMA, etc. That was the focus when I was a kid, and seems to be the focus of my cousins now, along with community fund raising and school plays. Basketball is bigger than football, but people aren't really into it in a big way. Nobody knows who the cheerleaders are, nobody goes to games unless they're playing in them, etc.

lol maybe in great neck or jericho

I grew up in Great Neck and this was def. the case. There were sports to be sure, but the emphasis was on the things the PP listed. Also, totally walkable and 35 mins to Penn Station. but the time I was in 9th grade I was going into NYC pretty much every weekend.

[Anonymous]

I grew up in NYC and I would take the subway to high school. One of the 3 specialized ones at the time in the late 90s. I got tired of the subway and being crammed in with people all the time. I saw homeless people , naked people, sicko men doing disgusting acts, fights and shootings. I left to college upstate and moved to the burbs after graduating. I got a job in the burbs too and my apt was 5 min away by car. So much better than stinky long subway commutes with crazy people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in NYC and I would take the subway to high school. One of the 3 specialized ones at the time in the late 90s. I got tired of the subway and being crammed in with people all the time. I saw homeless people , naked people, sicko men doing disgusting acts, fights and shootings. I left to college upstate and moved to the burbs after graduating. I got a job in the burbs too and my apt was 5 min away by car. So much better than stinky long subway commutes with crazy people.

I was in NYC in the 90s and it was the most clean and crime free it's ever been, during that time. What you describe sounds more like mid 70s Manhattan, via an array of fictional films.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We stayed. I don't like driving. My husband was not interested in maintaining a lawn. I would have liked more space, but I prefer this lifestyle. Now that my kids are in middle school and high school, they travel to school, to sports and to meet up with friends on their own.

And I bet they are growing up pretty damn fast, when it comes to sex and drugs.

I have two NYC teens. No sex yet, my dd's recent ex had offered her some weed and she admitted she didn't like it. I'll have wine at dinner with them on the weekends. But they are SHS kids - nerdy. They do get panhandled for crack money by homeless, oops, I meant, "unhoused" people on the subway. I suspect those experienced alone keep them on the straight and narrow.

DH and I grew up in the DC area. The sex and drugs at the boy's private in Bethesda where he went was fairly routine. I didn't have any exposure to those but plenty of my high school cohorts did. So I would say teen sex and drugs seems more flagrant in the burbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:" grew up in NYC and I would take the subway to high school. One of the 3 specialized ones at the time in the late 90s. I got tired of the subway and being crammed in with people all the time. I saw homeless people , naked people, sicko men doing disgusting acts, fights and shootings. I left to college upstate and moved to the burbs after graduating. I got a job in the burbs too and my apt was 5 min away by car. So much better than stinky long subway commutes with crazy people. "

I was in NYC in the 90s and it was the most clean and crime free it's ever been, during that time. What you describe sounds more like mid 70s Manhattan, via an array of fictional films.

I've been in NYC since 1990 and would agree that in the 90s it had its fill of homeless, naked sickos, fights and shootings. It's never really been clean and crime free. I met people who were toddlers here in the 90s and they remember being instructed by their daycare teachers "not to touch the needles" when they were taken to Riverside Park playgrounds. While you won't see needles in the playgrounds anymore, you will see homeless people sleeping in Riverside Park (they used to hide in the tunnels, but now they are loudly and proudly camping out visibly).
There is a lot less effort put into maintaining social norms. Or maybe I should say, the new social norm is to expose and impose your mental issues on everyone around you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in NYC and I would take the subway to high school. One of the 3 specialized ones at the time in the late 90s. I got tired of the subway and being crammed in with people all the time. I saw homeless people , naked people, sicko men doing disgusting acts, fights and shootings. I left to college upstate and moved to the burbs after graduating. I got a job in the burbs too and my apt was 5 min away by car. So much better than stinky long subway commutes with crazy people.

I was in NYC in the 90s and it was the most clean and crime free it's ever been, during that time. What you describe sounds more like mid 70s Manhattan, via an array of fictional films.

Stop romanticizing the 90's as if none of these things were happening. NYC is always on a spectrum of better or worse. It's never been without its problems. Furthermore, certain conditions and crime hit neighborhoods differently.

Also early 90s was significantly different from late 90s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone idealizes NYC. It is fabulous but Let’s be honest, your 3 and 5 year old don’t give two craps about visiting museums. Chances are you will do that one every 3 month and you can just drive in from the suburbs. Also, unless you have a driver and are really wealthy, normal living is a slog (everything takes longer and is effort!) Get a big house with a big yard, have your kids sign up for sports and form a community in the burbs. No brainer!

New York has amazing playgrounds. Good playgrounds are a lot more fun than backyards.

You need a lot of luck to be able to bring up a kid in NYC or it’s inner suburbs without much money, but, if you are lucky, then growing up in or around the city is a lot of fun. Every stoop is a new world.

I think NYC kid raising is cheaper than the burbs. There's so much to do and if you let go of the fancy class preschools and classes there's so much to do that's cheap. Also, no car expense. And you and your kid will be in much better physical shape.

We got lured to the burbs ten years ago and I still regret it. In NYC we had friends from every socioeconomic class and culture. The burbs are segregated and cold