Is APS middle school less rigorous?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We went from a homework elementary school to a sometimes homework middle school. But the thing to remember about the middle schools is that they use block scheduling, so the kids are given time during those long block classes to do their work, so most of the time the homework is just what they didn’t get too or fooled around during class and didn’t finish. If you have a 90 minute class, there should be enough time during the school day to do any necessary drilling or longer projects.

Wait why are they in 90 minute blocks if the teacher isn’t using that time for instruction, demonstrations or projects? There shouldn’t be time for homework or horsing around, they are only in school 6 hrs as it is

I am also puzzled by this. My rising 8th grader has had no homework at all since starting middle school. Claims to do it all in class, but if that much time is given in class to do homework, how do they also fit in all the needed instruction time? Also received straight As with seemingly minimal effort, include over 100% in some classes (really?!). Kid is pretty lazy and not like a genius or anything, so I just really question how rigorous the education is these days when I see no/minimal effort for those grades.

Do you know anything about how people learn? Sitting, being talked at for 90 minutes doesn't work. It's a decent pedagogical model to instruct, demonstrate, and then let the children reinforce what they were just shown at their own pace while getting assistance from the teacher. The only thing unique about homework is that you do it at home.

But how does this compare to when I was growing up, when we had math five days a week, and each class was instruction, class work, and then homework at night? If they are not covering twice as much material in one class with the block schedule, are they simply not learning as much over the course of the year as we did back in the day?

I always found homework helpful because the first thing we did in math class was to go over it, so it was a quick review and a chance to see if I correctly remembered how to do problems at home by myself with no help. Now I feel like my kid does not ever do that, and I'm just wondering why not? Is it really because some kids can't/won't do homework, so we just lower the bar for everyone? How does this help them prepare for college?

Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How does this help them prepare for college?

The purpose of middle school is not preparation for college. And math is not the only class students take.

Could you explain this more – because I’m sure some of us are misunderstanding.

[Anonymous]

I just find his whole thread somewhat ridiculous. Do you all have evidence that students from APS who don’t seem (by your standards of private school comparisons or “back in the day” memories) to have enough homework in middle school and therefore (it is resulting in) they are not prepared for their high school classes or not getting high enough AP scores, or not getting into colleges (using todays metrics, not comparing to your “back in the day” admission to Penn when it was 40% admit rate in the early 90’s).

I honestly think you are all just looking for shit to complain about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just find his whole thread somewhat ridiculous. Do you all have evidence that students from APS who don’t seem (by your standards of private school comparisons or “back in the day” memories) to have enough homework in middle school and therefore (it is resulting in) they are not prepared for their high school classes or not getting high enough AP scores, or not getting into colleges (using todays metrics, not comparing to your “back in the day” admission to Penn when it was 40% admit rate in the early 90’s).

I honestly think you are all just looking for shit to complain about.

Its not about getting into college, its about college readiness.

Besides, the kids you see getting into college from WL are often families with lots of academic enrichment, tutoring, RSM, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find his whole thread somewhat ridiculous. Do you all have evidence that students from APS who don’t seem (by your standards of private school comparisons or “back in the day” memories) to have enough homework in middle school and therefore (it is resulting in) they are not prepared for their high school classes or not getting high enough AP scores, or not getting into colleges (using todays metrics, not comparing to your “back in the day” admission to Penn when it was 40% admit rate in the early 90’s).

I honestly think you are all just looking for shit to complain about.

Its not about getting into college, its about college readiness.

Besides, the kids you see getting into college from WL are often families with lots of academic enrichment, tutoring, RSM, etc.

Isn't that most WL kids?

[Anonymous]

Besides, the kids you see getting into college from WL are often families with lots of academic enrichment, tutoring, RSM, etc.

This is simply not true. APS has a 96% graduation rate. 77% plan to pursue post-secondary education. 29% eligible for free/reduced lunch. Plenty of no -wealthy kids going to college. However many kids have to take finances into account to do so, which affects where they attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Besides, the kids you see getting into college from WL are often families with lots of academic enrichment, tutoring, RSM, etc.

This is simply not true. APS has a 96% graduation rate. 77% plan to pursue post-secondary education. 29% eligible for free/reduced lunch. Plenty of no -wealthy kids going to college. However many kids have to take finances into account to do so, which affects where they attend.

Sorry I meant “those colleges” ie Penn as alluded to by PP. Sure plenty of kids go to NOVA, JMU, and GMU, and they can provide a great education for many fields.

[Anonymous]

Very very few kids from APS as a whole and any district as a whole getting into Ivys as a percentage this year. Acceptance rates in the single digits. Even with perfect SATs and all As in the most rigorous classes, you are one of many many just like you. In the current climate it is not helpful to use admissions to these schools as a metric of how “good” a high school is. It’s not useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very very few kids from APS as a whole and any district as a whole getting into Ivys as a percentage this year. Acceptance rates in the single digits. Even with perfect SATs and all As in the most rigorous classes, you are one of many many just like you. In the current climate it is not helpful to use admissions to these schools as a metric of how “good” a high school is. It’s not useful.

+1 Kids get into Ivy-type schools because they are extraordinarily driven + (mostly) some kind of hook. MS-HS you go to has very little to do with creating that profile. More kids do get in from elite privates but that's more because the elite private schools have already done the pre-screening for the hooks like legacy and $$$.

A kid who goes to any APS HS and does well in challenging classes (AP/IB) is going to be prepared for college. Same as any of the surrounding districts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Rip Van Winkle here apparently fell asleep in 2019 and just woke up. This is exactly what they mean when they say “equity” now.



That may be; but they're wrong and it's sending our schools (and society) downhill fast. Another example of seizing on a term and running with it thoughtlessly and taking the easiest way to superficially achieving the goal.

Remember that visual folks (including the SB) used to like to pull out to demonstrate "equity" - the kids standing on various sized/# of boxes looking over the fence to watch the baseball game? All the kids get to see the game by giving the kids who couldn't see over the fence boxes to stand on; not by cutting the fence line lower so the smallest one could see over and keeping all the kids on the same starting point. APS seems to miss that and is going about it backwards: lowering the goal so everyone reaches it, instead of helping those in need achieve the higher standard.

If this is how you feel, do something about it! Stop grousing here on DCUM and TELL THE SCHOOL BOARD about your concerns before a new school year begins and the current policies toward homework and grading in the name of equity continue to be codified!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Rip Van Winkle here apparently fell asleep in 2019 and just woke up. This is exactly what they mean when they say “equity” now.



That may be; but they're wrong and it's sending our schools (and society) downhill fast. Another example of seizing on a term and running with it thoughtlessly and taking the easiest way to superficially achieving the goal.

Remember that visual folks (including the SB) used to like to pull out to demonstrate "equity" - the kids standing on various sized/# of boxes looking over the fence to watch the baseball game? All the kids get to see the game by giving the kids who couldn't see over the fence boxes to stand on; not by cutting the fence line lower so the smallest one could see over and keeping all the kids on the same starting point. APS seems to miss that and is going about it backwards: lowering the goal so everyone reaches it, instead of helping those in need achieve the higher standard.

If this is how you feel, do something about it! Stop grousing here on DCUM and TELL THE SCHOOL BOARD about your concerns before a new school year begins and the current policies toward homework and grading in the name of equity continue to be codified!

I have. Thanks so much for the suggestion - never would have thought to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We went from a homework elementary school to a sometimes homework middle school. But the thing to remember about the middle schools is that they use block scheduling, so the kids are given time during those long block classes to do their work, so most of the time the homework is just what they didn’t get too or fooled around during class and didn’t finish. If you have a 90 minute class, there should be enough time during the school day to do any necessary drilling or longer projects.

Wait why are they in 90 minute blocks if the teacher isn’t using that time for instruction, demonstrations or projects? There shouldn’t be time for homework or horsing around, they are only in school 6 hrs as it is

I am also puzzled by this. My rising 8th grader has had no homework at all since starting middle school. Claims to do it all in class, but if that much time is given in class to do homework, how do they also fit in all the needed instruction time? Also received straight As with seemingly minimal effort, include over 100% in some classes (really?!). Kid is pretty lazy and not like a genius or anything, so I just really question how rigorous the education is these days when I see no/minimal effort for those grades.

Do you know anything about how people learn? Sitting, being talked at for 90 minutes doesn't work. It's a decent pedagogical model to instruct, demonstrate, and then let the children reinforce what they were just shown at their own pace while getting assistance from the teacher. The only thing unique about homework is that you do it at home.

But how does this compare to when I was growing up, when we had math five days a week, and each class was instruction, class work, and then homework at night? If they are not covering twice as much material in one class with the block schedule, are they simply not learning as much over the course of the year as we did back in the day?

I always found homework helpful because the first thing we did in math class was to go over it, so it was a quick review and a chance to see if I correctly remembered how to do problems at home by myself with no help. Now I feel like my kid does not ever do that, and I'm just wondering why not? Is it really because some kids can't/won't do homework, so we just lower the bar for everyone? How does this help them prepare for college?

Yes, that's what it is. APS has a real screwed up view of equity. Homework is important to keep parents involved in their kdis education. I like seeing what my kid is learning and talking to them about it. I guess other parents don't or can't and so let's get rid of it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very very few kids from APS as a whole and any district as a whole getting into Ivys as a percentage this year. Acceptance rates in the single digits. Even with perfect SATs and all As in the most rigorous classes, you are one of many many just like you. In the current climate it is not helpful to use admissions to these schools as a metric of how “good” a high school is. It’s not useful.

+1 Kids get into Ivy-type schools because they are extraordinarily driven + (mostly) some kind of hook. MS-HS you go to has very little to do with creating that profile. More kids do get in from elite privates but that's more because the elite private schools have already done the pre-screening for the hooks like legacy and $$$.

A kid who goes to any APS HS and does well in challenging classes (AP/IB) is going to be prepared for college. Same as any of the surrounding districts.

APS does not prepare you for college the way privates do. It just doesn't. There is almost no focus on writing, grammar, reading books and discussing them in class. It's a real shame. That said, a lot of the amazing admission stats you see from privates are because of legacy admissions/donations and other exceptional hooks. Don't go to private as a ticket to the ivys unless you have a hook. Do go to private for the superior education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just find his whole thread somewhat ridiculous. Do you all have evidence that students from APS who don’t seem (by your standards of private school comparisons or “back in the day” memories) to have enough homework in middle school and therefore (it is resulting in) they are not prepared for their high school classes or not getting high enough AP scores, or not getting into colleges (using todays metrics, not comparing to your “back in the day” admission to Penn when it was 40% admit rate in the early 90’s).

I honestly think you are all just looking for shit to complain about.

You think it's ridiculous to worry about academic rigor? Do you really think middle schoolers should not have any homework?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very very few kids from APS as a whole and any district as a whole getting into Ivys as a percentage this year. Acceptance rates in the single digits. Even with perfect SATs and all As in the most rigorous classes, you are one of many many just like you. In the current climate it is not helpful to use admissions to these schools as a metric of how “good” a high school is. It’s not useful.

+1 Kids get into Ivy-type schools because they are extraordinarily driven + (mostly) some kind of hook. MS-HS you go to has very little to do with creating that profile. More kids do get in from elite privates but that's more because the elite private schools have already done the pre-screening for the hooks like legacy and $$$.

A kid who goes to any APS HS and does well in challenging classes (AP/IB) is going to be prepared for college. Same as any of the surrounding districts.

APS does not prepare you for college the way privates do. It just doesn't. There is almost no focus on writing, grammar, reading books and discussing them in class. It's a real shame. That said, a lot of the amazing admission stats you see from privates are because of legacy admissions/donations and other exceptional hooks. Don't go to private as a ticket to the ivys unless you have a hook. Do go to private for the superior education.

First of all, private schools have a self-selected population that already starts out in an advantaged position. If you expect that from APS, your expectations need to be adjusted.