Travel sports and riding the bench

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it typical for a team to have say 15 players, but 5 ride the bench the whole time?

Yes it is about winning. If these teams do not win players leave, less kids come out to the club, the club makes less money and coaches eventually will have to move on to higher paying clubs. There is little to no development for the non starters. The coach concentrates on the top 2-4 top players during practice and games. Kids who do not start have no confidence and when they get their limited minutes they are playing to not make a mistake and lose playing time. This is not true for the starters. As they get older the non starters will be pushed down teams.

Every day at practice and games they and all their teammates know they are not the coaches first choice but the last choice. It does not matter how hard they work or whatever. You can not become more athletic or faster from hard work. They also will not be given a chance to try corner kick, shoot a technical foul, etc. The coach sees them as the bottom of the roster. These will be the first kids to get cut when another shiny prospect shows up. Many time they get bullied by the starters or are just used as “scout team”/ bodies so the starters can practice. Remember you are paying for this. Find another team where your kid will start even if it is on a lower team.

Do not buy in to the college hype. Colleges are only interested in the top 2-4 players on a ten top teams. The non starter will not play in college. So find a team where he or she can start and have fun playing the sport.

I don't agree with this sentiment that you can't improve from hard work. You can definitely become more skilled through hard work, and you can also become more athletic and faster. The top 5 players no our team all work together with a trainer a couple hours a week outside of team practice. They are better because they work harder.

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

No it does not. I do not care how hard you work you could never play in the NBA, NFL, EPL, etc. In middle school through high school(travel sports or high school teams) the difference is athleticism. A great athlete will dominate. He or she can be out of shape, do little work, have bad technical skills and still be the best player on the field. This is because the athletic difference from the top players to middle or bottom players is huge. Even college the athletic difference is large. In the pros it’s maybe 2-4% difference from top to bottom.

When you get to a level where your athleticism is average hard work may keep you on the team. In high school I was the fast on of my team/club. In college I was average. Now the coach will alway take potential over maxed out hard work. It’s just a fact of life.

It does not have to be a fact of life in youth sports. We aren't talking about national or professional teams. Keeping a hard-working kid on the bench or yanking them as soon as they make a mistake prevents them from learning to exploit skills other than raw athleticism. Kids aren't necessarily playing to become pros, so honoring only natural athleticism with playing time just drives kids away.

If they suck and are playing just for fun, there's always in-house league. Tons of fun!

If they suck, the coach should not have picked them for the team. That's a coaching failure, not a kid failure. If they were picked, they deserve the opportunity to develop by playing.

+1

Agree 100% at the youth level. The problem tends to be, they need extra kids to fill up the roster (in the event a player is missing etc) yet the starters are expecting to play full time- cut their playing time much to get bench players in and the starters will move to a different team! Usually the bottom few kids on the roster turn over every season- new sacrificial lambs each season. I think coaches figure it is easier to replace a few kids at the bottom of the roster every season (and have just a few angry parents) and keep starters and their parents happy.

Anyway, if this is your kid OP, finish out the season and then move to another team. The situation is highly unlikely to improve.

Agree 100% with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it typical for a team to have say 15 players, but 5 ride the bench the whole time?

Yes it is about winning. If these teams do not win players leave, less kids come out to the club, the club makes less money and coaches eventually will have to move on to higher paying clubs. There is little to no development for the non starters. The coach concentrates on the top 2-4 top players during practice and games. Kids who do not start have no confidence and when they get their limited minutes they are playing to not make a mistake and lose playing time. This is not true for the starters. As they get older the non starters will be pushed down teams.

Every day at practice and games they and all their teammates know they are not the coaches first choice but the last choice. It does not matter how hard they work or whatever. You can not become more athletic or faster from hard work. They also will not be given a chance to try corner kick, shoot a technical foul, etc. The coach sees them as the bottom of the roster. These will be the first kids to get cut when another shiny prospect shows up. Many time they get bullied by the starters or are just used as “scout team”/ bodies so the starters can practice. Remember you are paying for this. Find another team where your kid will start even if it is on a lower team.

Do not buy in to the college hype. Colleges are only interested in the top 2-4 players on a ten top teams. The non starter will not play in college. So find a team where he or she can start and have fun playing the sport.

I don't agree with this sentiment that you can't improve from hard work. You can definitely become more skilled through hard work, and you can also become more athletic and faster. The top 5 players no our team all work together with a trainer a couple hours a week outside of team practice. They are better because they work harder.

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

No it does not. I do not care how hard you work you could never play in the NBA, NFL, EPL, etc. In middle school through high school(travel sports or high school teams) the difference is athleticism. A great athlete will dominate. He or she can be out of shape, do little work, have bad technical skills and still be the best player on the field. This is because the athletic difference from the top players to middle or bottom players is huge. Even college the athletic difference is large. In the pros it’s maybe 2-4% difference from top to bottom.

When you get to a level where your athleticism is average hard work may keep you on the team. In high school I was the fast on of my team/club. In college I was average. Now the coach will alway take potential over maxed out hard work. It’s just a fact of life.

Totally disagree. The so called “athletic” kids are usually the hardest working, most engaged kids who started playing young. Our oldest played with a kid who now plays in the MLS and an ignorant parent like the one above might say he was just a “natural athlete” but the truth is, he practiced like 5 hours a day starting at age 2. Literally. His dad was a soccer coach and all they did was play abs watch soccer all the time.

My daughter played basketball and the hard truth is that you can’t teach height and no amount of effort will get the 4’10 girl awesome jumper tall enough to be playable if they are getting targeted on defense

[Anonymous]

What truly sucks is when this is the culture on rec teams. My son got placed on a very winning mentality MCLL rec league baseball team where most of the players had been together for previous multiple seasons. He is 11. Outfield all but the one required inning. Even in practice, they drill the hell out of the infield roster that will mainly play and the other get some time but not much. It does my head in. I signed him up for rec league for God sake. Very frustrating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What truly sucks is when this is the culture on rec teams. My son got placed on a very winning mentality MCLL rec league baseball team where most of the players had been together for previous multiple seasons. He is 11. Outfield all but the one required inning. Even in practice, they drill the hell out of the infield roster that will mainly play and the other get some time but not much. It does my head in. I signed him up for rec league for God sake. Very frustrating.

Complain to the league.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it typical for a team to have say 15 players, but 5 ride the bench the whole time?

Yes it is about winning. If these teams do not win players leave, less kids come out to the club, the club makes less money and coaches eventually will have to move on to higher paying clubs. There is little to no development for the non starters. The coach concentrates on the top 2-4 top players during practice and games. Kids who do not start have no confidence and when they get their limited minutes they are playing to not make a mistake and lose playing time. This is not true for the starters. As they get older the non starters will be pushed down teams.

Every day at practice and games they and all their teammates know they are not the coaches first choice but the last choice. It does not matter how hard they work or whatever. You can not become more athletic or faster from hard work. They also will not be given a chance to try corner kick, shoot a technical foul, etc. The coach sees them as the bottom of the roster. These will be the first kids to get cut when another shiny prospect shows up. Many time they get bullied by the starters or are just used as “scout team”/ bodies so the starters can practice. Remember you are paying for this. Find another team where your kid will start even if it is on a lower team.

Do not buy in to the college hype. Colleges are only interested in the top 2-4 players on a ten top teams. The non starter will not play in college. So find a team where he or she can start and have fun playing the sport.

I don't agree with this sentiment that you can't improve from hard work. You can definitely become more skilled through hard work, and you can also become more athletic and faster. The top 5 players no our team all work together with a trainer a couple hours a week outside of team practice. They are better because they work harder.

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

No it does not. I do not care how hard you work you could never play in the NBA, NFL, EPL, etc. In middle school through high school(travel sports or high school teams) the difference is athleticism. A great athlete will dominate. He or she can be out of shape, do little work, have bad technical skills and still be the best player on the field. This is because the athletic difference from the top players to middle or bottom players is huge. Even college the athletic difference is large. In the pros it’s maybe 2-4% difference from top to bottom.

When you get to a level where your athleticism is average hard work may keep you on the team. In high school I was the fast on of my team/club. In college I was average. Now the coach will alway take potential over maxed out hard work. It’s just a fact of life.

Totally disagree. The so called “athletic” kids are usually the hardest working, most engaged kids who started playing young. Our oldest played with a kid who now plays in the MLS and an ignorant parent like the one above might say he was just a “natural athlete” but the truth is, he practiced like 5 hours a day starting at age 2. Literally. His dad was a soccer coach and all they did was play abs watch soccer all the time.

What are you smoking? Seriously it parents like you who have no clue what you are talking about. There is a level of athleticism that is required to even be on the field. Every time you go up a level the it is a big jump. The difference between the second and first team is athleticism. The difference between travel soccer and college is college is only taking 6-8% of the travel players. You think they are picking the slow non athletic ones who work hard?

The difference between college and the professional is the pros only take 1-2% of the college player( or 0.8% from high school age players). Professional athletes are first and foremost great athletes. You can work 5 hour every day you will still be behind a great athlete who does an hour once a week. Great athlete will pickup and develop skills much fast and have a high up side…and are faster, stronger, quicker, with better field vision, etc.

In your example the player made the pros because he is a great athlete. Rudy does not make the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it typical for a team to have say 15 players, but 5 ride the bench the whole time?

Yes it is about winning. If these teams do not win players leave, less kids come out to the club, the club makes less money and coaches eventually will have to move on to higher paying clubs. There is little to no development for the non starters. The coach concentrates on the top 2-4 top players during practice and games. Kids who do not start have no confidence and when they get their limited minutes they are playing to not make a mistake and lose playing time. This is not true for the starters. As they get older the non starters will be pushed down teams.

Every day at practice and games they and all their teammates know they are not the coaches first choice but the last choice. It does not matter how hard they work or whatever. You can not become more athletic or faster from hard work. They also will not be given a chance to try corner kick, shoot a technical foul, etc. The coach sees them as the bottom of the roster. These will be the first kids to get cut when another shiny prospect shows up. Many time they get bullied by the starters or are just used as “scout team”/ bodies so the starters can practice. Remember you are paying for this. Find another team where your kid will start even if it is on a lower team.

Do not buy in to the college hype. Colleges are only interested in the top 2-4 players on a ten top teams. The non starter will not play in college. So find a team where he or she can start and have fun playing the sport.

I don't agree with this sentiment that you can't improve from hard work. You can definitely become more skilled through hard work, and you can also become more athletic and faster. The top 5 players no our team all work together with a trainer a couple hours a week outside of team practice. They are better because they work harder.

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

No it does not. I do not care how hard you work you could never play in the NBA, NFL, EPL, etc. In middle school through high school(travel sports or high school teams) the difference is athleticism. A great athlete will dominate. He or she can be out of shape, do little work, have bad technical skills and still be the best player on the field. This is because the athletic difference from the top players to middle or bottom players is huge. Even college the athletic difference is large. In the pros it’s maybe 2-4% difference from top to bottom.

When you get to a level where your athleticism is average hard work may keep you on the team. In high school I was the fast on of my team/club. In college I was average. Now the coach will alway take potential over maxed out hard work. It’s just a fact of life.

Totally disagree. The so called “athletic” kids are usually the hardest working, most engaged kids who started playing young. Our oldest played with a kid who now plays in the MLS and an ignorant parent like the one above might say he was just a “natural athlete” but the truth is, he practiced like 5 hours a day starting at age 2. Literally. His dad was a soccer coach and all they did was play abs watch soccer all the time.

What are you smoking? Seriously it parents like you who have no clue what you are talking about. There is a level of athleticism that is required to even be on the field. Every time you go up a level the it is a big jump. The difference between the second and first team is athleticism. The difference between travel soccer and college is college is only taking 6-8% of the travel players. You think they are picking the slow non athletic ones who work hard?

The difference between college and the professional is the pros only take 1-2% of the college player( or 0.8% from high school age players). Professional athletes are first and foremost great athletes. You can work 5 hour every day you will still be behind a great athlete who does an hour once a week. Great athlete will pickup and develop skills much fast and have a high up side…and are faster, stronger, quicker, with better field vision, etc.

In your example the player made the pros because he is a great athlete. Rudy does not make the team.

Every kid without exception on our oldest son’s elite team put in significant extra work with skills coaches and athletic trainers. Zero kids on that team practiced once a week or even only one extra session a week. Our kid ended up running D1 track rather than soccer not because he put on a pair of running shoes in 9th grade and was magically better than everyone, but because he’s been running for soccer since he was a toddler and his athleticism was built from years of soccer. The kid who plays in the MLS now was unquestionably the hardest worker on that team. They are stronger and quicker because the work for it, and they have better field vision because they’ve been watching soccer at home since they were tiny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it typical for a team to have say 15 players, but 5 ride the bench the whole time?

Yes it is about winning. If these teams do not win players leave, less kids come out to the club, the club makes less money and coaches eventually will have to move on to higher paying clubs. There is little to no development for the non starters. The coach concentrates on the top 2-4 top players during practice and games. Kids who do not start have no confidence and when they get their limited minutes they are playing to not make a mistake and lose playing time. This is not true for the starters. As they get older the non starters will be pushed down teams.

Every day at practice and games they and all their teammates know they are not the coaches first choice but the last choice. It does not matter how hard they work or whatever. You can not become more athletic or faster from hard work. They also will not be given a chance to try corner kick, shoot a technical foul, etc. The coach sees them as the bottom of the roster. These will be the first kids to get cut when another shiny prospect shows up. Many time they get bullied by the starters or are just used as “scout team”/ bodies so the starters can practice. Remember you are paying for this. Find another team where your kid will start even if it is on a lower team.

Do not buy in to the college hype. Colleges are only interested in the top 2-4 players on a ten top teams. The non starter will not play in college. So find a team where he or she can start and have fun playing the sport.

NP. My non-starter, benchwarmer who got maybe five minutes a game at age 11/12 is about to play college. Life is not as dire for the non-starters as you make it sound. Adolescent development and sheer work ethic count for a lot.

[Anonymous]

How are you defining athleticism? One of the bigger kids on DC's top team is pudgy but so big he can take three steps and move much further than the smaller kids. There are a few smaller kids who are very fit that can easily outrun this child if you go half a field or more, but not if you're competing within a few yards.
There are a few other very tall kids who are slow if you do a lap around the soccer field but "fast" when you're talking about a few yards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it typical for a team to have say 15 players, but 5 ride the bench the whole time?

Yes it is about winning. If these teams do not win players leave, less kids come out to the club, the club makes less money and coaches eventually will have to move on to higher paying clubs. There is little to no development for the non starters. The coach concentrates on the top 2-4 top players during practice and games. Kids who do not start have no confidence and when they get their limited minutes they are playing to not make a mistake and lose playing time. This is not true for the starters. As they get older the non starters will be pushed down teams.

Every day at practice and games they and all their teammates know they are not the coaches first choice but the last choice. It does not matter how hard they work or whatever. You can not become more athletic or faster from hard work. They also will not be given a chance to try corner kick, shoot a technical foul, etc. The coach sees them as the bottom of the roster. These will be the first kids to get cut when another shiny prospect shows up. Many time they get bullied by the starters or are just used as “scout team”/ bodies so the starters can practice. Remember you are paying for this. Find another team where your kid will start even if it is on a lower team.

Do not buy in to the college hype. Colleges are only interested in the top 2-4 players on a ten top teams. The non starter will not play in college. So find a team where he or she can start and have fun playing the sport.

I don't agree with this sentiment that you can't improve from hard work. You can definitely become more skilled through hard work, and you can also become more athletic and faster. The top 5 players no our team all work together with a trainer a couple hours a week outside of team practice. They are better because they work harder.

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

No it does not. I do not care how hard you work you could never play in the NBA, NFL, EPL, etc. In middle school through high school(travel sports or high school teams) the difference is athleticism. A great athlete will dominate. He or she can be out of shape, do little work, have bad technical skills and still be the best player on the field. This is because the athletic difference from the top players to middle or bottom players is huge. Even college the athletic difference is large. In the pros it’s maybe 2-4% difference from top to bottom.

When you get to a level where your athleticism is average hard work may keep you on the team. In high school I was the fast on of my team/club. In college I was average. Now the coach will alway take potential over maxed out hard work. It’s just a fact of life.

Totally disagree. The so called “athletic” kids are usually the hardest working, most engaged kids who started playing young. Our oldest played with a kid who now plays in the MLS and an ignorant parent like the one above might say he was just a “natural athlete” but the truth is, he practiced like 5 hours a day starting at age 2. Literally. His dad was a soccer coach and all they did was play abs watch soccer all the time.

What are you smoking? Seriously it parents like you who have no clue what you are talking about. There is a level of athleticism that is required to even be on the field. Every time you go up a level the it is a big jump. The difference between the second and first team is athleticism. The difference between travel soccer and college is college is only taking 6-8% of the travel players. You think they are picking the slow non athletic ones who work hard?

The difference between college and the professional is the pros only take 1-2% of the college player( or 0.8% from high school age players). Professional athletes are first and foremost great athletes. You can work 5 hour every day you will still be behind a great athlete who does an hour once a week. Great athlete will pickup and develop skills much fast and have a high up side…and are faster, stronger, quicker, with better field vision, etc.

In your example the player made the pros because he is a great athlete. Rudy does not make the team.

As someone who has spent hundreds of hours in the gym with international pros and a couple NBA guys, I can tell you that there is zero point to bringing professional athletes into a discussion about normal humans. The required genetic upside potential distance between random travel A team vs C team is a tiny compared to the difference between almost every successful D1 player and NBA draft guys.

Back in the world of normal humans, I can tell you that as a strength coach and a track coach, I could train most neurotypical unathletic 6th graders to be high school varsity standouts by sophomore or junior year —- if they were willing to do very hard workouts almost every day between 6th grade and high school (which, by the way, almost no kid is). Hand eye coordination, strength, and speed within normal human ranges and certainly to DMV high school basketball, football or track levels (not MLB catching, NFL speed, or NBA durability) are absolutely trainable.

[Anonymous]

Good post, completely agree that many if not most kids are trainable up to a point and that point will get you pretty far even in our competitive area - a HS varsity team or travel. In each age group you may see a few standouts but it's really rare.

In 10 years of one sport with three kids and have probably seen 100s of players we have seen 3-4 who looked like actual outliers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are you defining athleticism? One of the bigger kids on DC's top team is pudgy but so big he can take three steps and move much further than the smaller kids. There are a few smaller kids who are very fit that can easily outrun this child if you go half a field or more, but not if you're competing within a few yards.
There are a few other very tall kids who are slow if you do a lap around the soccer field but "fast" when you're talking about a few yards.

For soccer can they jog for an an hour 30 with a bunch of very fast sprints interspersed as well as periods of sustained running? I doubt the pudgy big kid can

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are you defining athleticism? One of the bigger kids on DC's top team is pudgy but so big he can take three steps and move much further than the smaller kids. There are a few smaller kids who are very fit that can easily outrun this child if you go half a field or more, but not if you're competing within a few yards.
There are a few other very tall kids who are slow if you do a lap around the soccer field but "fast" when you're talking about a few yards.

If that tall pudgy kid has the hand/eye coordination to be skilled, sure, they can be considered athletic. Not because of size, but because of skill. Their is a tall, pudgy kid on my kid's soccer team who is slow and can never chase back any forward who has managed to pass him. However, his first touch and ball handling skills are so good, he gets the ball and boots it away 95% of the time. Maybe he'll eventually lose the weight to become a more well rounded player.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are you defining athleticism? One of the bigger kids on DC's top team is pudgy but so big he can take three steps and move much further than the smaller kids. There are a few smaller kids who are very fit that can easily outrun this child if you go half a field or more, but not if you're competing within a few yards.
There are a few other very tall kids who are slow if you do a lap around the soccer field but "fast" when you're talking about a few yards.

For soccer can they jog for an an hour 30 with a bunch of very fast sprints interspersed as well as periods of sustained running? I doubt the pudgy big kid can

I define “athletic” as genetic potential. Almost anyone can increase their lean muscle mass and decrease their bodyfat with really hard training (by which I mean “puke in a garbage can every day” training, not “ooh, that bootcamp class kicked my butt” training). For most young athletes, getting enough calories and protein is way more of a challenge. That’s why I said above that almost anyone can play varsity sport in high school, most people just don’t see the cost benefit of working that hard. And yes, genetics makes it easier for some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are you defining athleticism? One of the bigger kids on DC's top team is pudgy but so big he can take three steps and move much further than the smaller kids. There are a few smaller kids who are very fit that can easily outrun this child if you go half a field or more, but not if you're competing within a few yards.
There are a few other very tall kids who are slow if you do a lap around the soccer field but "fast" when you're talking about a few yards.

For soccer can they jog for an an hour 30 with a bunch of very fast sprints interspersed as well as periods of sustained running? I doubt the pudgy big kid can

I define “athletic” as genetic potential. Almost anyone can increase their lean muscle mass and decrease their bodyfat with really hard training (by which I mean “puke in a garbage can every day” training, not “ooh, that bootcamp class kicked my butt” training). For most young athletes, getting enough calories and protein is way more of a challenge. That’s why I said above that almost anyone can play varsity sport in high school, most people just don’t see the cost benefit of working that hard. And yes, genetics makes it easier for some.

Thanks for the honesty. It's challenging when a child works hard and has skill due to sheer effort but they are limited by genetics.

[Anonymous]

For parents that complain about lack of playing time, sign your kids up for tennis and golf and you will not have this issue.