What is the “upper” in upper middle class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:upper middle class has more education (advanced degrees), more money and more refined tastes. if you meet all 3 criteria you are a good example/safely in that category. many people are borderline. like, a surgeon who makes a lot of money but listens to country music and eats at applebees vs. a low paying adjunct with a harvard phd etc.

classical, alternative, some rock… it’s the kid of music that people with a lot of musical education gravitate to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:upper middle class has more education (advanced degrees), more money and more refined tastes. if you meet all 3 criteria you are a good example/safely in that category. many people are borderline. like, a surgeon who makes a lot of money but listens to country music and eats at applebees vs. a low paying adjunct with a harvard phd etc.

What is upper middle class music?

Plenty of upper middle class people listen to country music. It’s the default music of a large swath of this country. Similarly, hip hop.

it is precisely the fact that a lot of Americans listen to country music that makes it not acceptable in the upper classes. so this does not show what you think it shows.

it is true that large numbers of umc people listen to mass music but this is only possible when they have other class markers. You can’t go to community college AND listen to country music AND work as a nurse AND drink soda. it’s like DSM - you need to meet a certain number of criteria to get a diagnosis but not everyone meets the same ones.

Drinking soda can eliminate you from being upper class? That’s just bizzare, and something you made up.

And I don’t have a dog in the country music fight, but I’ve known plenty of well off, educated southerners who listen to country music.

You’re exhibiting a lot of provincialism and parochialism here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am genuinely middle class, not UMC. HHI is 130k for dual income family if 4. We can afford to own a home but have made lots of sacrifices to do so. We also still carry a considerable amount of student debt 15 years out of school (more than 50k). We can afford all our basic needs, including modest vacations and some leisure activities, while also saving for retirement and college, but that’s it. Our discretionary income is quite limited and we must adhere to strict rules about non-needs like restaurant meals (mostly casual family restaurants and not frequently), take out (almost never), clothes (shop consignment a lot, DH and I sometimes go year buying nothing but socks, underwear and necessary shoes), cars (one car, 13 years old, will drive until it dies), etc.

I consider upper middle class to include people who still do many of these things but it’s not all necessary. Like my current goal is to get our household income to 180k in the next 5 years. If we stay in our current home or something similarly priced, don’t alter our spending habits much, that extra 50k a year will allow us to more quickly pay down debt, save more aggressively, and even allow for slightly more extravagant travel on occasion. To me that’s the line between MC and UMC— the discretionary funds to CHOOSE where the excess goes, instead of having every penny accounted for at all times.

We are both professionals and I have a grad degree. But having to borrow almost all of the money needed for our educations has kept us firmly middle class. Without our degrees we’d make far less money, but to obtain our degrees we had to go into serious debt. It’s such a catch-22 and I don’t know that I’d do it again.

PP, I think these are interesting distinctions and well described. I would consider our family UMC — the real deal, not low-key rich like people throw around the term on DCUM — and our family is almost exactly your family after the extra 50K. We live like you (15-year-old car, etc) but have managed to pay off almost all debt (the last bit is student loans), including the mortgage on our tiny condo and save significantly for retirement. Most people in our position choose more extravagant lifestyles with more debt. But I think the common denominator is having the freedom of decision-making. Unexpected expenses suck, but they’re never a crisis. We avoid most extravagances, but that’s mostly a choice because they feel like a waste of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:upper middle class has more education (advanced degrees), more money and more refined tastes. if you meet all 3 criteria you are a good example/safely in that category. many people are borderline. like, a surgeon who makes a lot of money but listens to country music and eats at applebees vs. a low paying adjunct with a harvard phd etc.

What is upper middle class music?

Plenty of upper middle class people listen to country music. It’s the default music of a large swath of this country. Similarly, hip hop.

it is precisely the fact that a lot of Americans listen to country music that makes it not acceptable in the upper classes. so this does not show what you think it shows.

it is true that large numbers of umc people listen to mass music but this is only possible when they have other class markers. You can’t go to community college AND listen to country music AND work as a nurse AND drink soda. it’s like DSM - you need to meet a certain number of criteria to get a diagnosis but not everyone meets the same ones.

Drinking soda can eliminate you from being upper class? That’s just bizzare, and something you made up.

And I don’t have a dog in the country music fight, but I’ve known plenty of well off, educated southerners who listen to country music.

You’re exhibiting a lot of provincialism and parochialism here.

do you not understand how dumb you are? i even provided you with a very useful analogy with the

DSM. as i already explained, music is just one factor. and yes, country music counts against you, in general, though you are permitted to show some familiarity if it is coupled with proper ironic detachment. and yes, you can drink soda and listen to country music and be upper middle class but only if you get your upper middle class points elsewhere. so basically this is something you need to make up for - you can no more also be fat and have low income and all that, which, by itself, is also permitted if your other tastes are properly cultivated, you have impressive credentials etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:upper middle class has more education (advanced degrees), more money and more refined tastes. if you meet all 3 criteria you are a good example/safely in that category. many people are borderline. like, a surgeon who makes a lot of money but listens to country music and eats at applebees vs. a low paying adjunct with a harvard phd etc.

What is upper middle class music?

Plenty of upper middle class people listen to country music. It’s the default music of a large swath of this country. Similarly, hip hop.

it is precisely the fact that a lot of Americans listen to country music that makes it not acceptable in the upper classes. so this does not show what you think it shows.

it is true that large numbers of umc people listen to mass music but this is only possible when they have other class markers. You can’t go to community college AND listen to country music AND work as a nurse AND drink soda. it’s like DSM - you need to meet a certain number of criteria to get a diagnosis but not everyone meets the same ones.

Drinking soda can eliminate you from being upper class? That’s just bizzare, and something you made up.

And I don’t have a dog in the country music fight, but I’ve known plenty of well off, educated southerners who listen to country music.

You’re exhibiting a lot of provincialism and parochialism here.

I think I agree with the overall point. You listen to country or hip-hop, that means you score lower in that area and probably have to score higher in other areas to "qualify." Listen to country but read Jane Austen, and you're more likely to be upper middle class than if you listen to country but read Archie Comics. If you're a big fan of the Riverdale gang, you probably need to listen to the music on your NPR station.

[Anonymous]

The original PP slipped in and made the point better than I did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:upper middle class has more education (advanced degrees), more money and more refined tastes. if you meet all 3 criteria you are a good example/safely in that category. many people are borderline. like, a surgeon who makes a lot of money but listens to country music and eats at applebees vs. a low paying adjunct with a harvard phd etc.

What is upper middle class music?

Plenty of upper middle class people listen to country music. It’s the default music of a large swath of this country. Similarly, hip hop.

it is precisely the fact that a lot of Americans listen to country music that makes it not acceptable in the upper classes. so this does not show what you think it shows.

it is true that large numbers of umc people listen to mass music but this is only possible when they have other class markers. You can’t go to community college AND listen to country music AND work as a nurse AND drink soda. it’s like DSM - you need to meet a certain number of criteria to get a diagnosis but not everyone meets the same ones.

Drinking soda can eliminate you from being upper class? That’s just bizzare, and something you made up.

And I don’t have a dog in the country music fight, but I’ve known plenty of well off, educated southerners who listen to country music.

You’re exhibiting a lot of provincialism and parochialism here.

I think I agree with the overall point. You listen to country or hip-hop, that means you score lower in that area and probably have to score higher in other areas to "qualify." Listen to country but read Jane Austen, and you're more likely to be upper middle class than if you listen to country but read Archie Comics. If you're a big fan of the Riverdale gang, you probably need to listen to the music on your NPR station.

Assuming, arbitrarily, that soda, Archie comics, and country music are low class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:upper middle class has more education (advanced degrees), more money and more refined tastes. if you meet all 3 criteria you are a good example/safely in that category. many people are borderline. like, a surgeon who makes a lot of money but listens to country music and eats at applebees vs. a low paying adjunct with a harvard phd etc.

What is upper middle class music?

Plenty of upper middle class people listen to country music. It’s the default music of a large swath of this country. Similarly, hip hop.

it is precisely the fact that a lot of Americans listen to country music that makes it not acceptable in the upper classes. so this does not show what you think it shows.

it is true that large numbers of umc people listen to mass music but this is only possible when they have other class markers. You can’t go to community college AND listen to country music AND work as a nurse AND drink soda. it’s like DSM - you need to meet a certain number of criteria to get a diagnosis but not everyone meets the same ones.

Drinking soda can eliminate you from being upper class? That’s just bizzare, and something you made up.

And I don’t have a dog in the country music fight, but I’ve known plenty of well off, educated southerners who listen to country music.

You’re exhibiting a lot of provincialism and parochialism here.

I think I agree with the overall point. You listen to country or hip-hop, that means you score lower in that area and probably have to score higher in other areas to "qualify." Listen to country but read Jane Austen, and you're more likely to be upper middle class than if you listen to country but read Archie Comics. If you're a big fan of the Riverdale gang, you probably need to listen to the music on your NPR station.

Assuming, arbitrarily, that soda, Archie comics, and country music are low class.

I think the posters upthread are confusing pretentiousness for class. It’s a common problem with DCUM’s wannabe social climbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:upper middle class has more education (advanced degrees), more money and more refined tastes. if you meet all 3 criteria you are a good example/safely in that category. many people are borderline. like, a surgeon who makes a lot of money but listens to country music and eats at applebees vs. a low paying adjunct with a harvard phd etc.

What is upper middle class music?

Plenty of upper middle class people listen to country music. It’s the default music of a large swath of this country. Similarly, hip hop.

it is precisely the fact that a lot of Americans listen to country music that makes it not acceptable in the upper classes. so this does not show what you think it shows.

it is true that large numbers of umc people listen to mass music but this is only possible when they have other class markers. You can’t go to community college AND listen to country music AND work as a nurse AND drink soda. it’s like DSM - you need to meet a certain number of criteria to get a diagnosis but not everyone meets the same ones.

Drinking soda can eliminate you from being upper class? That’s just bizzare, and something you made up.

And I don’t have a dog in the country music fight, but I’ve known plenty of well off, educated southerners who listen to country music.

You’re exhibiting a lot of provincialism and parochialism here.

do you not understand how dumb you are? i even provided you with a very useful analogy with the

DSM. as i already explained, music is just one factor. and yes, country music counts against you, in general, though you are permitted to show some familiarity if it is coupled with proper ironic detachment. and yes, you can drink soda and listen to country music and be upper middle class but only if you get your upper middle class points elsewhere. so basically this is something you need to make up for - you can no more also be fat and have low income and all that, which, by itself, is also permitted if your other tastes are properly cultivated, you have impressive credentials etc.

I hope you’re trolling with this post. Because, if not, you must be insufferable in real life.

[Anonymous]

A number of baby boomers moved from UMC to lower upper class. This would be educated professional with a net worth of over $8M.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:upper middle class has more education (advanced degrees), more money and more refined tastes. if you meet all 3 criteria you are a good example/safely in that category. many people are borderline. like, a surgeon who makes a lot of money but listens to country music and eats at applebees vs. a low paying adjunct with a harvard phd etc.

What is upper middle class music?

Plenty of upper middle class people listen to country music. It’s the default music of a large swath of this country. Similarly, hip hop.

it is precisely the fact that a lot of Americans listen to country music that makes it not acceptable in the upper classes. so this does not show what you think it shows.

it is true that large numbers of umc people listen to mass music but this is only possible when they have other class markers. You can’t go to community college AND listen to country music AND work as a nurse AND drink soda. it’s like DSM - you need to meet a certain number of criteria to get a diagnosis but not everyone meets the same ones.

Drinking soda can eliminate you from being upper class? That’s just bizzare, and something you made up.

And I don’t have a dog in the country music fight, but I’ve known plenty of well off, educated southerners who listen to country music.

You’re exhibiting a lot of provincialism and parochialism here.

I think I agree with the overall point. You listen to country or hip-hop, that means you score lower in that area and probably have to score higher in other areas to "qualify." Listen to country but read Jane Austen, and you're more likely to be upper middle class than if you listen to country but read Archie Comics. If you're a big fan of the Riverdale gang, you probably need to listen to the music on your NPR station.

Assuming, arbitrarily, that soda, Archie comics, and country music are low class.

I think the posters upthread are confusing pretentiousness for class. It’s a common problem with DCUM’s wannabe social climbers.

DP. +1

UMC = DCUM striver?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:upper middle class has more education (advanced degrees), more money and more refined tastes. if you meet all 3 criteria you are a good example/safely in that category. many people are borderline. like, a surgeon who makes a lot of money but listens to country music and eats at applebees vs. a low paying adjunct with a harvard phd etc.

What is upper middle class music?

Plenty of upper middle class people listen to country music. It’s the default music of a large swath of this country. Similarly, hip hop.

it is precisely the fact that a lot of Americans listen to country music that makes it not acceptable in the upper classes. so this does not show what you think it shows.

it is true that large numbers of umc people listen to mass music but this is only possible when they have other class markers. You can’t go to community college AND listen to country music AND work as a nurse AND drink soda. it’s like DSM - you need to meet a certain number of criteria to get a diagnosis but not everyone meets the same ones.

Drinking soda can eliminate you from being upper class? That’s just bizzare, and something you made up.

And I don’t have a dog in the country music fight, but I’ve known plenty of well off, educated southerners who listen to country music.

You’re exhibiting a lot of provincialism and parochialism here.

do you not understand how dumb you are? i even provided you with a very useful analogy with the

DSM. as i already explained, music is just one factor. and yes, country music counts against you, in general, though you are permitted to show some familiarity if it is coupled with proper ironic detachment. and yes, you can drink soda and listen to country music and be upper middle class but only if you get your upper middle class points elsewhere. so basically this is something you need to make up for - you can no more also be fat and have low income and all that, which, by itself, is also permitted if your other tastes are properly cultivated, you have impressive credentials etc.

I hope you’re trolling with this post. Because, if not, you must be insufferable in real life.

I think she’s funny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:upper middle class has more education (advanced degrees), more money and more refined tastes. if you meet all 3 criteria you are a good example/safely in that category. many people are borderline. like, a surgeon who makes a lot of money but listens to country music and eats at applebees vs. a low paying adjunct with a harvard phd etc.

What is upper middle class music?

Plenty of upper middle class people listen to country music. It’s the default music of a large swath of this country. Similarly, hip hop.

it is precisely the fact that a lot of Americans listen to country music that makes it not acceptable in the upper classes. so this does not show what you think it shows.

it is true that large numbers of umc people listen to mass music but this is only possible when they have other class markers. You can’t go to community college AND listen to country music AND work as a nurse AND drink soda. it’s like DSM - you need to meet a certain number of criteria to get a diagnosis but not everyone meets the same ones.

Drinking soda can eliminate you from being upper class? That’s just bizzare, and something you made up.

And I don’t have a dog in the country music fight, but I’ve known plenty of well off, educated southerners who listen to country music.

You’re exhibiting a lot of provincialism and parochialism here.

I think I agree with the overall point. You listen to country or hip-hop, that means you score lower in that area and probably have to score higher in other areas to "qualify." Listen to country but read Jane Austen, and you're more likely to be upper middle class than if you listen to country but read Archie Comics. If you're a big fan of the Riverdale gang, you probably need to listen to the music on your NPR station.

Assuming, arbitrarily, that soda, Archie comics, and country music are low class.

I think the posters upthread are confusing pretentiousness for class. It’s a common problem with DCUM’s wannabe social climbers.

pretentiousness/snobbery is a part of belonging to upper middle class. UPM people are social climbers. not each and every one, obviously, and, like other things, it is not required, but it is a common feature of this group. and yes, DCUM is full of such people, which is why it asks itself about what it takes to belong to UPM at least once every week.

you are confusing being upper middle class as somehow being morally pure and virtuous, and are aghast that somebody would dare suggest that many of these people are, consciously or unconsciously, employing elaborate signals in order to be recognized as UPM. how dare you accuse these simple innocent people of such unpure thoughts! upper middle class are just simple people indistinguishable in their tastes and behaviors from walmart cashiers and they do not, in any way, aspire to thought of as any different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever is UMC according to DCUM constitutes rich to everyone else.

I think that’s true. We recently started making about 500k (though only half in salary, the rest in annual bonus, so still have to watch monthly costs). I tell spouse never to say anything about income or about our house not being “that big” or “that ridiculous,” because it will just make us look like a-holes. That said, I don’t feel like we are rich, just well off and very fortunate.

That's great perspective all the way around - first, for realizing only half of your HHI is built on a sure thing and, second, for the awareness of the wealth you do have. Wish more people in your income bracket had that good sense and POV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A number of baby boomers moved from UMC to lower upper class. This would be educated professional with a net worth of over $8M.

Damn. I was targeting a net worth of $7.5 million, but guess I can't stop there. I'll just have to work another ... carry the two, etc., etc. ... 112 years.