If your school is currently piloting or offering E3 Math next year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:M3 is not E3 - yea confusing perhaps but different things. M3 is Moli stone math that is where the M comes in. Forget the E3 title.

I have one LIV AAP kid currently in 7th grade algebra and another kid at the center. Our base started LLIV this year and is doing E3 math. While we chose center instead, for several reasons and math is one, I did attend all the info sessions. At least at our base they were a hit cagey when pressed on math saying things like it’s practically the same as at the center or that it just doesn’t get to percents yet.

Notably, when asked directly what math SOL the students would take in 6th grade and would it be the next year higher, they could not say yes. That was a big indicator to me the curriculum is different enough.

Is taking the next year's higher SOL in 6th grade used for determining whether a kid goes to Algebra 1 in 7th grade? If 6th graders don't take the year-ahead SOL, would that preclude 7th grade Algebra 1?

Quoted PP back - That is my understanding yes, you need pass advanced on that SOL as one criteria (IAAT score is the other criteria) for Alg 1 in 7th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:M3 is not E3 - yea confusing perhaps but different things. M3 is Moli stone math that is where the M comes in. Forget the E3 title.

I have one LIV AAP kid currently in 7th grade algebra and another kid at the center. Our base started LLIV this year and is doing E3 math. While we chose center instead, for several reasons and math is one, I did attend all the info sessions. At least at our base they were a hit cagey when pressed on math saying things like it’s practically the same as at the center or that it just doesn’t get to percents yet.

Notably, when asked directly what math SOL the students would take in 6th grade and would it be the next year higher, they could not say yes. That was a big indicator to me the curriculum is different enough.

Is taking the next year's higher SOL in 6th grade used for determining whether a kid goes to Algebra 1 in 7th grade? If 6th graders don't take the year-ahead SOL, would that preclude 7th grade Algebra 1?

Quoted PP back - That is my understanding yes, you need pass advanced on that SOL as one criteria (IAAT score is the other criteria) for Alg 1 in 7th.

Thanks. Do we know what happened at the 10 ES that piloted E3 last year -- did their 6th graders take the 7th grade SOL or at least have the option to take it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:M3 is not E3 - yea confusing perhaps but different things. M3 is Moli stone math that is where the M comes in. Forget the E3 title.

I have one LIV AAP kid currently in 7th grade algebra and another kid at the center. Our base started LLIV this year and is doing E3 math. While we chose center instead, for several reasons and math is one, I did attend all the info sessions. At least at our base they were a hit cagey when pressed on math saying things like it’s practically the same as at the center or that it just doesn’t get to percents yet.

Notably, when asked directly what math SOL the students would take in 6th grade and would it be the next year higher, they could not say yes. That was a big indicator to me the curriculum is different enough.

Is taking the next year's higher SOL in 6th grade used for determining whether a kid goes to Algebra 1 in 7th grade? If 6th graders don't take the year-ahead SOL, would that preclude 7th grade Algebra 1?

Quoted PP back - That is my understanding yes, you need pass advanced on that SOL as one criteria (IAAT score is the other criteria) for Alg 1 in 7th.

Thanks. Do we know what happened at the 10 ES that piloted E3 last year -- did their 6th graders take the 7th grade SOL or at least have the option to take it?

I'd be curious to know if 6th graders were involved in the pilot of E3, I thought it was starting at lower grades and expanding from there. At our school only the 4th grade (which is the first year advanced math is offered - we are not a center or local level IV school) is doing E3. I don't know if it will follow them to 5th grade or what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:M3 is not E3 - yea confusing perhaps but different things. M3 is Moli stone math that is where the M comes in. Forget the E3 title.

I have one LIV AAP kid currently in 7th grade algebra and another kid at the center. Our base started LLIV this year and is doing E3 math. While we chose center instead, for several reasons and math is one, I did attend all the info sessions. At least at our base they were a hit cagey when pressed on math saying things like it’s practically the same as at the center or that it just doesn’t get to percents yet.

Notably, when asked directly what math SOL the students would take in 6th grade and would it be the next year higher, they could not say yes. That was a big indicator to me the curriculum is different enough.

Is taking the next year's higher SOL in 6th grade used for determining whether a kid goes to Algebra 1 in 7th grade? If 6th graders don't take the year-ahead SOL, would that preclude 7th grade Algebra 1?

Quoted PP back - That is my understanding yes, you need pass advanced on that SOL as one criteria (IAAT score is the other criteria) for Alg 1 in 7th.

Thanks. Do we know what happened at the 10 ES that piloted E3 last year -- did their 6th graders take the 7th grade SOL or at least have the option to take it?

I'd be curious to know if 6th graders were involved in the pilot of E3, I thought it was starting at lower grades and expanding from there. At our school only the 4th grade (which is the first year advanced math is offered - we are not a center or local level IV school) is doing E3. I don't know if it will follow them to 5th grade or what.

That makes sense from a pilot perspective to start at a younger grade. However, if last year's 10 ES pilots were also limited to fourth grade, we won't know what FCPS intends to do with sixth graders until after the program is likely installed across the county which is unfortunate. Seeing if students are prepared to take the Grade 7 SOL would be a good way of determining whether E3 does in fact have the same pacing as advanced math. Have schools provided the syllabus for E3 4th grade so it could be compared with comparable advanced math?

[Anonymous]

PP again. Thinking about this, I believe I remember reading that Bailey's Upper & Lane piloted E3 for grades 3-4 in 2021-22. Unsure what Union Mill did. Virginia Run may be starting E3 this year too.

[Anonymous]

Virginia Run is our base and yes they started E3 this year, along with starting their Local Level IV program, for 3rd grade this year. I do not believe E3 extends beyond 3rd grade for them; I know the LLIV is limited to 3rd grade (for this year).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, cagey is right. We weren’t even told our school was piloting this. Does anyone know how long it will continue as a pilot before being implemented everywhere or discontinued? I’m worried about my student learning the same content as the peers she’ll be in advanced math in middle school.

I thought the pilot was the ten ES last year and then they would implement more broadly this year. Is E3 currently still considered a pilot, just with more schools, or have they concluded the pilot stage and are now beginning the broad implementation phase?

I'm going to suspect that they are going to begin broadening. We are in the second year of E3.

Also, I think LCPS is now doing it as well.

Which schools? I don't think LCPS has any differentiated math in elementary school, unless Futura does something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:M3 is not E3 - yea confusing perhaps but different things. M3 is Moli stone math that is where the M comes in. Forget the E3 title.

I have one LIV AAP kid currently in 7th grade algebra and another kid at the center. Our base started LLIV this year and is doing E3 math. While we chose center instead, for several reasons and math is one, I did attend all the info sessions. At least at our base they were a hit cagey when pressed on math saying things like it’s practically the same as at the center or that it just doesn’t get to percents yet.

Notably, when asked directly what math SOL the students would take in 6th grade and would it be the next year higher, they could not say yes. That was a big indicator to me the curriculum is different enough.

Is taking the next year's higher SOL in 6th grade used for determining whether a kid goes to Algebra 1 in 7th grade? If 6th graders don't take the year-ahead SOL, would that preclude 7th grade Algebra 1?

Quoted PP back - That is my understanding yes, you need pass advanced on that SOL as one criteria (IAAT score is the other criteria) for Alg 1 in 7th.

Thanks. Do we know what happened at the 10 ES that piloted E3 last year -- did their 6th graders take the 7th grade SOL or at least have the option to take it?

I'd be curious to know if 6th graders were involved in the pilot of E3, I thought it was starting at lower grades and expanding from there. At our school only the 4th grade (which is the first year advanced math is offered - we are not a center or local level IV school) is doing E3. I don't know if it will follow them to 5th grade or what.

That makes sense from a pilot perspective to start at a younger grade. However, if last year's 10 ES pilots were also limited to fourth grade, we won't know what FCPS intends to do with sixth graders until after the program is likely installed across the county which is unfortunate. Seeing if students are prepared to take the Grade 7 SOL would be a good way of determining whether E3 does in fact have the same pacing as advanced math. Have schools provided the syllabus for E3 4th grade so it could be compared with comparable advanced math?

We have not gotten a syllabus for 4th grade. We weren't even told our school was using it until some parents with older kids who had been through advanced math noticed that their kids were not getting the same content or instructional time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, cagey is right. We weren’t even told our school was piloting this. Does anyone know how long it will continue as a pilot before being implemented everywhere or discontinued? I’m worried about my student learning the same content as the peers she’ll be in advanced math in middle school.

I thought the pilot was the ten ES last year and then they would implement more broadly this year. Is E3 currently still considered a pilot, just with more schools, or have they concluded the pilot stage and are now beginning the broad implementation phase?

I'm going to suspect that they are going to begin broadening. We are in the second year of E3.

Also, I think LCPS is now doing it as well.

Which schools? I don't think LCPS has any differentiated math in elementary school, unless Futura does something.

I think the intention is to use E3 in heterogenous classes, where kids of all abilities are in the same class. Based on what PPs have said, kids are getting some limited differentiation within that heterogenous class. So, if LCPS were to use it, it would likely to be in a regular classroom. One PP here said that parents didn't know E3 was in use until they asked. Thus, LCPS parents might need to ask to know if it's being used in their kids ES classroom or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:M3 is not E3 - yea confusing perhaps but different things. M3 is Moli stone math that is where the M comes in. Forget the E3 title.

I have one LIV AAP kid currently in 7th grade algebra and another kid at the center. Our base started LLIV this year and is doing E3 math. While we chose center instead, for several reasons and math is one, I did attend all the info sessions. At least at our base they were a hit cagey when pressed on math saying things like it’s practically the same as at the center or that it just doesn’t get to percents yet.

Notably, when asked directly what math SOL the students would take in 6th grade and would it be the next year higher, they could not say yes. That was a big indicator to me the curriculum is different enough.

Is taking the next year's higher SOL in 6th grade used for determining whether a kid goes to Algebra 1 in 7th grade? If 6th graders don't take the year-ahead SOL, would that preclude 7th grade Algebra 1?

Quoted PP back - That is my understanding yes, you need pass advanced on that SOL as one criteria (IAAT score is the other criteria) for Alg 1 in 7th.

Thanks. Do we know what happened at the 10 ES that piloted E3 last year -- did their 6th graders take the 7th grade SOL or at least have the option to take it?

I'd be curious to know if 6th graders were involved in the pilot of E3, I thought it was starting at lower grades and expanding from there. At our school only the 4th grade (which is the first year advanced math is offered - we are not a center or local level IV school) is doing E3. I don't know if it will follow them to 5th grade or what.

That makes sense from a pilot perspective to start at a younger grade. However, if last year's 10 ES pilots were also limited to fourth grade, we won't know what FCPS intends to do with sixth graders until after the program is likely installed across the county which is unfortunate. Seeing if students are prepared to take the Grade 7 SOL would be a good way of determining whether E3 does in fact have the same pacing as advanced math. Have schools provided the syllabus for E3 4th grade so it could be compared with comparable advanced math?

We have not gotten a syllabus for 4th grade. We weren't even told our school was using it until some parents with older kids who had been through advanced math noticed that their kids were not getting the same content or instructional time.

Do parents with older kids think the E3 curriculum is less rigorous than advanced math? Also, when you say kids are getting a different amount of instructional time, does that mean the duration/length of math class is different or that they're getting a different amount of instruction within the same duration class?

[Anonymous]

What is E3?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:M3 is not E3 - yea confusing perhaps but different things. M3 is Moli stone math that is where the M comes in. Forget the E3 title.

I have one LIV AAP kid currently in 7th grade algebra and another kid at the center. Our base started LLIV this year and is doing E3 math. While we chose center instead, for several reasons and math is one, I did attend all the info sessions. At least at our base they were a hit cagey when pressed on math saying things like it’s practically the same as at the center or that it just doesn’t get to percents yet.

Notably, when asked directly what math SOL the students would take in 6th grade and would it be the next year higher, they could not say yes. That was a big indicator to me the curriculum is different enough.

Is taking the next year's higher SOL in 6th grade used for determining whether a kid goes to Algebra 1 in 7th grade? If 6th graders don't take the year-ahead SOL, would that preclude 7th grade Algebra 1?

Quoted PP back - That is my understanding yes, you need pass advanced on that SOL as one criteria (IAAT score is the other criteria) for Alg 1 in 7th.

Thanks. Do we know what happened at the 10 ES that piloted E3 last year -- did their 6th graders take the 7th grade SOL or at least have the option to take it?

I'd be curious to know if 6th graders were involved in the pilot of E3, I thought it was starting at lower grades and expanding from there. At our school only the 4th grade (which is the first year advanced math is offered - we are not a center or local level IV school) is doing E3. I don't know if it will follow them to 5th grade or what.

That makes sense from a pilot perspective to start at a younger grade. However, if last year's 10 ES pilots were also limited to fourth grade, we won't know what FCPS intends to do with sixth graders until after the program is likely installed across the county which is unfortunate. Seeing if students are prepared to take the Grade 7 SOL would be a good way of determining whether E3 does in fact have the same pacing as advanced math. Have schools provided the syllabus for E3 4th grade so it could be compared with comparable advanced math?

We have not gotten a syllabus for 4th grade. We weren't even told our school was using it until some parents with older kids who had been through advanced math noticed that their kids were not getting the same content or instructional time.

Do parents with older kids think the E3 curriculum is less rigorous than advanced math? Also, when you say kids are getting a different amount of instructional time, does that mean the duration/length of math class is different or that they're getting a different amount of instruction within the same duration class?

Yes, it appears MUCH less rigorous. In years past, the kids identified for "advanced math" at our FCPS elementary would be in an entirely separate math group with a dedicated advanced math teacher. In 4th grade, they began moving ahead by covering both the 4th AND 5th grade math curriculum as 4th graders. Then in 5th grade they do the 6th grade curriculum and take the 6th grade SOL. 4th grade is the year they make the jump. With E3 4th grade math, they haven't been clear about what will happen in 5th grade. I don't know if my advanced math student will be prepared to and actually take the 6th grade SOL as a 5th grader or not.

The classroom math time now is the entire classroom, including the advanced math kids, being taught one lesson together. When they have independent work time on the lesson the advanced math students are encouraged to take "next steps" "think about how else they could apply this" but they are given no extra instruction. I'm sure the one teacher has to focus on the kids that need help rather than the ones already getting the concepts. And then they have a one hour pull out once a week with the AAP teacher, but I'm unclear what the curriculum is during this hour. And obviously one hour once a week is not the same as the old system of having a completely different group with instruction from a dedicated advanced math teacher.

I've asked for answers, but haven't gotten any yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:M3 is not E3 - yea confusing perhaps but different things. M3 is Moli stone math that is where the M comes in. Forget the E3 title.

I have one LIV AAP kid currently in 7th grade algebra and another kid at the center. Our base started LLIV this year and is doing E3 math. While we chose center instead, for several reasons and math is one, I did attend all the info sessions. At least at our base they were a hit cagey when pressed on math saying things like it’s practically the same as at the center or that it just doesn’t get to percents yet.

Notably, when asked directly what math SOL the students would take in 6th grade and would it be the next year higher, they could not say yes. That was a big indicator to me the curriculum is different enough.

Is taking the next year's higher SOL in 6th grade used for determining whether a kid goes to Algebra 1 in 7th grade? If 6th graders don't take the year-ahead SOL, would that preclude 7th grade Algebra 1?

Quoted PP back - That is my understanding yes, you need pass advanced on that SOL as one criteria (IAAT score is the other criteria) for Alg 1 in 7th.

Thanks. Do we know what happened at the 10 ES that piloted E3 last year -- did their 6th graders take the 7th grade SOL or at least have the option to take it?

I'd be curious to know if 6th graders were involved in the pilot of E3, I thought it was starting at lower grades and expanding from there. At our school only the 4th grade (which is the first year advanced math is offered - we are not a center or local level IV school) is doing E3. I don't know if it will follow them to 5th grade or what.

That makes sense from a pilot perspective to start at a younger grade. However, if last year's 10 ES pilots were also limited to fourth grade, we won't know what FCPS intends to do with sixth graders until after the program is likely installed across the county which is unfortunate. Seeing if students are prepared to take the Grade 7 SOL would be a good way of determining whether E3 does in fact have the same pacing as advanced math. Have schools provided the syllabus for E3 4th grade so it could be compared with comparable advanced math?

We have not gotten a syllabus for 4th grade. We weren't even told our school was using it until some parents with older kids who had been through advanced math noticed that their kids were not getting the same content or instructional time.

Do parents with older kids think the E3 curriculum is less rigorous than advanced math? Also, when you say kids are getting a different amount of instructional time, does that mean the duration/length of math class is different or that they're getting a different amount of instruction within the same duration class?

Yes, it appears MUCH less rigorous. In years past, the kids identified for "advanced math" at our FCPS elementary would be in an entirely separate math group with a dedicated advanced math teacher. In 4th grade, they began moving ahead by covering both the 4th AND 5th grade math curriculum as 4th graders. Then in 5th grade they do the 6th grade curriculum and take the 6th grade SOL. 4th grade is the year they make the jump. With E3 4th grade math, they haven't been clear about what will happen in 5th grade. I don't know if my advanced math student will be prepared to and actually take the 6th grade SOL as a 5th grader or not.

The classroom math time now is the entire classroom, including the advanced math kids, being taught one lesson together. When they have independent work time on the lesson the advanced math students are encouraged to take "next steps" "think about how else they could apply this" but they are given no extra instruction. I'm sure the one teacher has to focus on the kids that need help rather than the ones already getting the concepts. And then they have a one hour pull out once a week with the AAP teacher, but I'm unclear what the curriculum is during this hour. And obviously one hour once a week is not the same as the old system of having a completely different group with instruction from a dedicated advanced math teacher.

I've asked for answers, but haven't gotten any yet.

DP. Oh, hell no. Our ES is piloting E3 for third grade this year and this post is making me thankful I have a 6th grader who did the regular Advanced Math and avoid what you're describing. You need to sign up to speak at a School Board meeting and lay this out. A lot of parents have no idea what's going on because schools are being deliberately cagey and they'd be furious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is E3?

Here is FCPS's description on their math page; it's a math curriculum designed to broaden access to advanced math. FCPS expanded the program from 10 schools last year to 20 schools this year. It appears to be linked to their goal to increase the share of underrepresented students taking Algebra 1 by 8th grade. (FCPS Goal 2).

https://www.fcps.edu/node/44416

"Goal 1: By the end of SY 2022-23 Virginia Standards of Learning (SOL) pass rates will increase by 11% points for all students and by 21% points for English Learners.
Goal 2: By the end of SY 2022-23 participation of underrepresented groups in Algebra 1 by 8th grade will increase by 4% points

Pilot revised curriculum guides for grades 3 and 4 that include more detailed teacher notes on daily lessons including scaffolds, interventions, and extensions.

Partner with College Success Programs to launch the Algebra Access Network Improvement Community, a network of five schools that will increase the diverse representation of students who participate and are proficient in Algebra 1 by the end of eighth grade.

Partner with the Advanced Academic Office expand the E3 Network from 10 to 20 schools. Improve intensity of support for network schools as they implement Engaging, Enhanced, and Extended Mathematics or E3. The purpose of E3 is to broaden the access for third and fourth graders to a more rigorous curriculum in elementary mathematics by raising the rigor for all students through an enhanced program of studies that layers more opportunities for depth and complexity through flexible delivery of Advanced Academic extensions."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is E3?

Here is FCPS's description on their math page; it's a math curriculum designed to broaden access to advanced math. FCPS expanded the program from 10 schools last year to 20 schools this year. It appears to be linked to their goal to increase the share of underrepresented students taking Algebra 1 by 8th grade. (FCPS Goal 2).

https://www.fcps.edu/node/44416

"Goal 1: By the end of SY 2022-23 Virginia Standards of Learning (SOL) pass rates will increase by 11% points for all students and by 21% points for English Learners.
Goal 2: By the end of SY 2022-23 participation of underrepresented groups in Algebra 1 by 8th grade will increase by 4% points

Pilot revised curriculum guides for grades 3 and 4 that include more detailed teacher notes on daily lessons including scaffolds, interventions, and extensions.

Partner with College Success Programs to launch the Algebra Access Network Improvement Community, a network of five schools that will increase the diverse representation of students who participate and are proficient in Algebra 1 by the end of eighth grade.

Partner with the Advanced Academic Office expand the E3 Network from 10 to 20 schools. Improve intensity of support for network schools as they implement Engaging, Enhanced, and Extended Mathematics or E3. The purpose of E3 is to broaden the access for third and fourth graders to a more rigorous curriculum in elementary mathematics by raising the rigor for all students through an enhanced program of studies that layers more opportunities for depth and complexity through flexible delivery of Advanced Academic extensions."

PP. The one thing that's odd is that FCPS refers to E3 as Engaging, Enhanced, and Extended Mathematics. However, the E3 website says the acronym stands for Education Equals Economics. https://e3alliance.org/
Unclear where FCPS's definition of E3 comes from.