"Needing" AAP

[pettifogger]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really do not see the point of threads like this. OP - why do you care?

My oldest DC did AAP at a centre and yes I think she needed it. Math was still a lot slower than she would like but at least better than gen Ed would have been. They did do multiple neat projects.

Youngest DC is LLIV. He does not “need it” I think and faster math beyond the pace they are doing would be too much for him. School mixes classes so the LLIV kids are integrated with the other kids for hometown, SS/S, specials. Not as challenging in my view as the version of AAP older DC got but a good fit for this kid. I do not think the LLIV model would have been enough for older kiddo given that it feels like a bit more watered down version.

OP here. I haven't checked in a few days and appreciate all the answers.

To address this question: I care for a lot of reasons, not all of them good, productive reasons. I admit that to a large degree I am just disappointed with the program and frustrated that it's so completely different from the way it is described. So it irks me when experienced parents use the FCPS language with prospective parents because it seems like we should know better. And I do not believe that people are "mocking" the application's language. It's quite clear that many people feel that way. It sounds so self-promotional, which I find embarrassing for kids in a program that just isn't all that special (though it could be... FCPS could do SO MUCH BETTER!) You look at a program like AOPS/Beast Academy and THAT is special. Even if your fifth grader is doing the third grade books, the kid would be approaching math in a different way. And, if anything, FCPS does an adequate job with Math, whereas language arts... Maybe its the SOLs and being forced to teach to the test? maybe it's that the classes are too large? I just wish this program delivered on it's promises. I feel that it's a program that selects for a certain kind of student and rewards that kind of student. And for what it's worth my kids are at one of the supposedly most coveted centers. I am willing to believe that there are some brilliant teachers out there but I doubt other schools are teaching wildly different content in wildly different ways.

I feel you OP, this is what completely bothered me realizing what AAP really is vs what it's marketed as, and what caused me to take matters in my own hands and teach my kid math myself. I can do it, but I realize not too many can afford to do that, and they rely on AAP thinking it promotes understanding and creativity (using their marketed words). Meanwhile I'm watching my kid in class now doing long division with decimals.... in 4th grade... why?? How can anyone believe that any kid starting 4th grade is actually ready to understand how the division algorithm works with decimals this early? How can they believe this is so important when they've barely properly covered how fractions work? Never mind even their understanding, but more importantly, imagine the pain this puts on the kids at this age to struggle to do some algorithm which seems completely alien to them, is just so misguided... this in my mind is how one kills a love of math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
To address this question: I care for a lot of reasons, not all of them good, productive reasons. I admit that to a large degree I am just disappointed with the program and frustrated that it's so completely different from the way it is described. So it irks me when experienced parents use the FCPS language with prospective parents because it seems like we should know better. And I do not believe that people are "mocking" the application's language. It's quite clear that many people feel that way.

FCPS is super competitive, so it's not entirely surprising that so many parents are desperate to believe that their kids are gifted or special and not just run of the mill , bright, upper middle class kids. That is certainly one of the things that leads FCPS parents to believe that their above average kids couldn't possibly have their needs met in a regular classroom.

I care, too, largely in that the marketing of the program caused my kid to waste 4 years of schooling. I would have been more than happy to homeschool my kid if the FCPS admin had been upfront that AAP was only slightly accelerated and would not meet the needs of my child. At least the AoPS classes helped my kid retain a love of learning.

[Anonymous]

pettifogger wrote:. Meanwhile I'm watching my kid in class now doing long division with decimals.... in 4th grade... why?? How can anyone believe that any kid starting 4th grade is actually ready to understand how the division algorithm works with decimals this early? How can they believe this is so important when they've barely properly covered how fractions work?

Not to nitpick, but some kids like mine took AoPS Algebra in 4th grade and could easily understand decimal long division. He taught himself how to do that around 2nd grade.

The bolded part is the true point, though. I have no idea why they think following a somewhat complicated algorithm is that important at such a young age, especially when it adds nothing to the kids' understanding. They'll pick up the complicated algorithms quite easily when their executive function has had time to catch up with everything else.

[pettifogger]

Anonymous wrote:

pettifogger wrote:. Meanwhile I'm watching my kid in class now doing long division with decimals.... in 4th grade... why?? How can anyone believe that any kid starting 4th grade is actually ready to understand how the division algorithm works with decimals this early? How can they believe this is so important when they've barely properly covered how fractions work?

Not to nitpick, but some kids like mine took AoPS Algebra in 4th grade and could easily understand decimal long division. He taught himself how to do that around 2nd grade.

The bolded part is the true point, though. I have no idea why they think following a somewhat complicated algorithm is that important at such a young age, especially when it adds nothing to the kids' understanding. They'll pick up the complicated algorithms quite easily when their executive function has had time to catch up with everything else.

Sure, a few kids might understand why the algorithm works, i.e. why are they carrying numbers down when they're doing the algorithm, but I'm convinced most kids in AAP have NO idea why they're doing the steps they're doing here. There are not preparing them to understand the algorithm (e.g by studying fractions combined with place value, and looking to see what is actually happening at each step), they're just making them practice it repeatedly in the hope that they'll just learn it, but what they're really learning is to mimic a procedure of steps. Most adults do not understand how long division works, because it's not intuitive, especially the way it is symbolically set up in the US (with the bar on top of the dividend and the bringing down numbers). It's particularly hard to understand what's going on when they're doing it with decimals unless they break down what is happening at each step (i.e the "bringing down" numbers, or bringing down zeroes step is really breaking up a remainder into 10x into smaller pieces so that it can be further subdivided... that is pretty subtle stuff for kids to figure out on their own.

I think AoPS BA division with decimals near the end of their BA curriculum somewhere in level 5, because it's just not that important to understand before doing many more fundamental things first, that they can easily understand and are important.