"Needing" AAP

[Anonymous]

I really wish parents would stop propagating the whole "needs AAP" myth. Who "needs" a slightly advanced, slightly faster-paced program for slightly above-average kids? If your child is reasonably bright, the GBRS is going to make or break the application--and there is nothing a parent can do about that at this point. If anything, teachers clearly place a premium on strong executive functions over natural curiosity and brightness. Basically, they evaluate whether your child will succeed in AAP.

Sure, I'd rather have my smartish middle schooler in AAP than in Gen Ed because he's going to do whatever is asked of him (and, frankly, not much else), so I'd prefer to have the demands be on a higher level. And even though I disagree with the hours of homework per night that some elementary school teachers assign, I'd rather have my elementary-aged kid pick up certain skills than skip them altogether.

It just sounds so self-important and inflated to use this language about the AAP program. I have had several kids go through it and it's not a different unique way of presenting the material that engages and inspires brilliant minds that would otherwise atrophy. It's just a program that moves faster and has higher expectations.

If your child is above average and organized, the program will be a good fit. It your child is brilliant and creative, an out-of-the-box thinker, and (especially) not strong in the executive function areas, I strongly recommend private.

[Anonymous]

It’s not “slightly advanced” or “slightly faster-paced” at our center. Math is a full year ahead and the pace is significantly accelerated. I have one child who “needs” AAP and one who could likely have educational needs met in either program, but there are absolutely children in the program who need it. Perhaps not yours and perhaps not the majority, but they do exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “slightly advanced” or “slightly faster-paced” at our center. Math is a full year ahead and the pace is significantly accelerated. I have one child who “needs” AAP and one who could likely have educational needs met in either program, but there are absolutely children in the program who need it. Perhaps not yours and perhaps not the majority, but they do exist.

Math is a year ahead starting in 5th grade at most schools.I would not call that a significant difference but that is me.

I am more surprised that the people who are so invested in AAP for third grade did not do more to participate in LI or maybe they did and they didn't get into those programs. Especially the parents who are desperate for AAP because they don't like their Base school. LI essentially is parental differentiation that starts in K or first grade.

[Anonymous]

People are just using or mocking FCPS' own verbiage. FCPS states that AAP is for children whose needs cannot be met in a regular classroom.

The reality is that the vast majority of kids in AAP would have been fine in gen ed, and the rest of the AAP kids "need" a much more accelerated program than AAP is, so AAP is meeting nobody's "needs." Still, you can't blame people for using FCPS' terminology for the program. View it like a buzzword that the AAP selection committee will lap up if the parent writes a strong referral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “slightly advanced” or “slightly faster-paced” at our center. Math is a full year ahead and the pace is significantly accelerated. I have one child who “needs” AAP and one who could likely have educational needs met in either program, but there are absolutely children in the program who need it. Perhaps not yours and perhaps not the majority, but they do exist.

Math is a year ahead starting in 5th grade at most schools.I would not call that a significant difference but that is me.

I am more surprised that the people who are so invested in AAP for third grade did not do more to participate in LI or maybe they did and they didn't get into those programs. Especially the parents who are desperate for AAP because they don't like their Base school. LI essentially is parental differentiation that starts in K or first grade.

Because Virginia's standards are pretty slow in early ES, a year ahead really isn't that significant. Friends who switched to Singapore Math for homeschool from AAP found that their kid who was supposed to be a year ahead was just on grade level in Singapore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “slightly advanced” or “slightly faster-paced” at our center. Math is a full year ahead and the pace is significantly accelerated. I have one child who “needs” AAP and one who could likely have educational needs met in either program, but there are absolutely children in the program who need it. Perhaps not yours and perhaps not the majority, but they do exist.

Math is a year ahead starting in 5th grade at most schools.I would not call that a significant difference but that is me.

I am more surprised that the people who are so invested in AAP for third grade did not do more to participate in LI or maybe they did and they didn't get into those programs. Especially the parents who are desperate for AAP because they don't like their Base school. LI essentially is parental differentiation that starts in K or first grade.

Because Virginia's standards are pretty slow in early ES, a year ahead really isn't that significant. Friends who switched to Singapore Math for homeschool from AAP found that their kid who was supposed to be a year ahead was just on grade level in Singapore.

I don't have a problem with Virginia's standards. DS is at a good ES. He is in language immersion, so parents are probably more invested then others in their kids education. He has friends in his class who take forever to add three numbers together. At least one of those kids is doing Mathnasium. Math is not intuitive for many kids and they do not grasp it the way people on this board seem to think that they do. The standard is set because kids struggle with math and if they move too much quicker, many of these kids will struggle even more when they get to high school.

DS enjoys math and finds it easy. He is in Advanced Math but he is taking a class at RSM because the math at school is not engaging. The work they are doing at RSM is far ahead of what they are doing in school. We flat out tell him that he should treat his school work as foundational drills to insure that he knows his facts and basic rules cold. Most of his classmates would drown if they were doing the math he is at RSM. And I would bet good money that he is not the brightest kid or most mathematically gifted kid at RSM.

Compare to whatever other country that you want but the US does not track kids the way they do in most European and Asian countries. That is not going to happen. And we are not going to let 80-90% of the class fail so that the math fits the needs of the 10%. A kid who really needs AAP, as in they are legitimately gifted and/or advanced, is not going to get that much more out of it. The math is not that advanced, it just isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “slightly advanced” or “slightly faster-paced” at our center. Math is a full year ahead and the pace is significantly accelerated. I have one child who “needs” AAP and one who could likely have educational needs met in either program, but there are absolutely children in the program who need it. Perhaps not yours and perhaps not the majority, but they do exist.

OP here. Of course there are a handful of exceptionally bright students, though these are few and far between. And of course it's better for these kids to be exposed to math that is one year ahead rather than grade level (which of course is behind every Asian country and many/most European countries). But this is not a special program for gifted kids that challenges them to learn and think in different ways. Nothing my kids have done in Math at FCPS, except in a class by one legendary teacher in 7th grade Algebra, comes close to AOPS or even Singapore Math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “slightly advanced” or “slightly faster-paced” at our center. Math is a full year ahead and the pace is significantly accelerated. I have one child who “needs” AAP and one who could likely have educational needs met in either program, but there are absolutely children in the program who need it. Perhaps not yours and perhaps not the majority, but they do exist.

Math is a year ahead starting in 5th grade at most schools.I would not call that a significant difference but that is me.

I am more surprised that the people who are so invested in AAP for third grade did not do more to participate in LI or maybe they did and they didn't get into those programs. Especially the parents who are desperate for AAP because they don't like their Base school. LI essentially is parental differentiation that starts in K or first grade.

Because Virginia's standards are pretty slow in early ES, a year ahead really isn't that significant. Friends who switched to Singapore Math for homeschool from AAP found that their kid who was supposed to be a year ahead was just on grade level in Singapore.

I don't have a problem with Virginia's standards. DS is at a good ES. He is in language immersion, so parents are probably more invested then others in their kids education. He has friends in his class who take forever to add three numbers together. At least one of those kids is doing Mathnasium. Math is not intuitive for many kids and they do not grasp it the way people on this board seem to think that they do. The standard is set because kids struggle with math and if they move too much quicker, many of these kids will struggle even more when they get to high school.

DS enjoys math and finds it easy. He is in Advanced Math but he is taking a class at RSM because the math at school is not engaging. The work they are doing at RSM is far ahead of what they are doing in school. We flat out tell him that he should treat his school work as foundational drills to insure that he knows his facts and basic rules cold. Most of his classmates would drown if they were doing the math he is at RSM. And I would bet good money that he is not the brightest kid or most mathematically gifted kid at RSM.

Compare to whatever other country that you want but the US does not track kids the way they do in most European and Asian countries. That is not going to happen. And we are not going to let 80-90% of the class fail so that the math fits the needs of the 10%. A kid who really needs AAP, as in they are legitimately gifted and/or advanced, is not going to get that much more out of it. The math is not that advanced, it just isn't.

OP here. Yes, this exactly.

[Anonymous]

OK thanks for sharing?

FTR I think the only reason parents talk about “needing AAP” is because that is the standard set by the application process. Parents are asked to explain why their child needs AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “slightly advanced” or “slightly faster-paced” at our center. Math is a full year ahead and the pace is significantly accelerated. I have one child who “needs” AAP and one who could likely have educational needs met in either program, but there are absolutely children in the program who need it. Perhaps not yours and perhaps not the majority, but they do exist.

Math is a year ahead starting in 5th grade at most schools.I would not call that a significant difference but that is me.

I am more surprised that the people who are so invested in AAP for third grade did not do more to participate in LI or maybe they did and they didn't get into those programs. Especially the parents who are desperate for AAP because they don't like their Base school. LI essentially is parental differentiation that starts in K or first grade.

Because Virginia's standards are pretty slow in early ES, a year ahead really isn't that significant. Friends who switched to Singapore Math for homeschool from AAP found that their kid who was supposed to be a year ahead was just on grade level in Singapore.

I don't have a problem with Virginia's standards. DS is at a good ES. He is in language immersion, so parents are probably more invested then others in their kids education. He has friends in his class who take forever to add three numbers together. At least one of those kids is doing Mathnasium. Math is not intuitive for many kids and they do not grasp it the way people on this board seem to think that they do. The standard is set because kids struggle with math and if they move too much quicker, many of these kids will struggle even more when they get to high school.

DS enjoys math and finds it easy. He is in Advanced Math but he is taking a class at RSM because the math at school is not engaging. The work they are doing at RSM is far ahead of what they are doing in school. We flat out tell him that he should treat his school work as foundational drills to insure that he knows his facts and basic rules cold. Most of his classmates would drown if they were doing the math he is at RSM. And I would bet good money that he is not the brightest kid or most mathematically gifted kid at RSM.

Compare to whatever other country that you want but the US does not track kids the way they do in most European and Asian countries. That is not going to happen. And we are not going to let 80-90% of the class fail so that the math fits the needs of the 10%. A kid who really needs AAP, as in they are legitimately gifted and/or advanced, is not going to get that much more out of it. The math is not that advanced, it just isn't.

OK well the head of K-12 math in FCPS flat out told me that 3rd grade math standards in Virginia are way too basic, so...

[Anonymous]

Op sounds like the kind of ignoramus who goes around mocking the need to make everything handicap accessible.

[Anonymous]

I really do not see the point of threads like this. OP - why do you care?

My oldest DC did AAP at a centre and yes I think she needed it. Math was still a lot slower than she would like but at least better than gen Ed would have been. They did do multiple neat projects.

Youngest DC is LLIV. He does not “need it” I think and faster math beyond the pace they are doing would be too much for him. School mixes classes so the LLIV kids are integrated with the other kids for hometown, SS/S, specials. Not as challenging in my view as the version of AAP older DC got but a good fit for this kid. I do not think the LLIV model would have been enough for older kiddo given that it feels like a bit more watered down version.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK thanks for sharing?

FTR I think the only reason parents talk about “needing AAP” is because that is the standard set by the application process. Parents are asked to explain why their child needs AAP.

Exactly. It is a service. It’s NOT the same as applying to a college or a private school, a place where you’d like your kid to go because it would be nice for your kid. Yet many parents approach it in this manner. It’s incorrect. Referring your child for Level 4 services is more like special education: You refer because you believe your child needs it. (Yes, I know the actual process is different; I’m saying that they are both need based.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really wish parents would stop propagating the whole "needs AAP" myth. Who "needs" a slightly advanced, slightly faster-paced program for slightly above-average kids? If your child is reasonably bright, the GBRS is going to make or break the application--and there is nothing a parent can do about that at this point. If anything, teachers clearly place a premium on strong executive functions over natural curiosity and brightness. Basically, they evaluate whether your child will succeed in AAP.

Sure, I'd rather have my smartish middle schooler in AAP than in Gen Ed because he's going to do whatever is asked of him (and, frankly, not much else), so I'd prefer to have the demands be on a higher level. And even though I disagree with the hours of homework per night that some elementary school teachers assign, I'd rather have my elementary-aged kid pick up certain skills than skip them altogether.

It just sounds so self-important and inflated to use this language about the AAP program. I have had several kids go through it and it's not a different unique way of presenting the material that engages and inspires brilliant minds that would otherwise atrophy. It's just a program that moves faster and has higher expectations.

If your child is above average and organized, the program will be a good fit. It your child is brilliant and creative, an out-of-the-box thinker, and (especially) not strong in the executive function areas, I strongly recommend private.

Do you agree with the NYC decision to eliminate their gifted and talented program entirely?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really wish parents would stop propagating the whole "needs AAP" myth. Who "needs" a slightly advanced, slightly faster-paced program for slightly above-average kids? If your child is reasonably bright, the GBRS is going to make or break the application--and there is nothing a parent can do about that at this point. If anything, teachers clearly place a premium on strong executive functions over natural curiosity and brightness. Basically, they evaluate whether your child will succeed in AAP.

Sure, I'd rather have my smartish middle schooler in AAP than in Gen Ed because he's going to do whatever is asked of him (and, frankly, not much else), so I'd prefer to have the demands be on a higher level. And even though I disagree with the hours of homework per night that some elementary school teachers assign, I'd rather have my elementary-aged kid pick up certain skills than skip them altogether.

It just sounds so self-important and inflated to use this language about the AAP program. I have had several kids go through it and it's not a different unique way of presenting the material that engages and inspires brilliant minds that would otherwise atrophy. It's just a program that moves faster and has higher expectations.

If your child is above average and organized, the program will be a good fit. It your child is brilliant and creative, an out-of-the-box thinker, and (especially) not strong in the executive function areas, I strongly recommend private.

I fully agree with this description of the AAP program, and the discrepancy between how it is described (an innovative way to present the material to engage bright inquisitive minds who may tune out in a traditional classroom) and what it is (a slightly accelerated version of the same material presented in the same drill-like way.) I have one kid that is both bright and creative, and has high executive functioning, and he sleepwalked through the program. He also did AOPS for math and could really appreciate the different ways in which they teach math - explaining “why” as opposed to drilling the “what”. Unfortunately, the AAP screening process, as presented to parents, emphasizes the critical and creative thinking component (even if it is so sadly missing from the program), but as PP correctly pointed out, teachers don’t appreciate critical and creative thinking unless it also comes with high executive function. I now have a kid who is a very creative thinker with some ADHD-related executive function issues, who would jump only as high as the bar is set, and struggling with finding the right environment for him. I will refer him for AAP, but I am not 100% sure that is the best environment for him, and would rather be able to find a private that fits him well, though he loves his school and would find it devastating (at least initially) to leave.