Dual enrollment seems misguided.

[Anonymous]

To be blunt OP, it doesn’t make sense to you because you are living in a different universe than they are. I don’t mean that in an insulting way.

The options available to you and your family are not realistic for them and their family. It is similar to the Radford discussion here the other day. We aren’t talking “oh your kid ONLY got into UVA but it’s not so bad because we are full pay”.

It is hey I was raised by a single mom working three part time jobs, I can’t get into UVA, but I got a two year DE degree and then my RN from a place like Radford and I am now middle class.

That’s a greater achievement relative to opportunity than most DC private school kids can boast. DE can do that for a lot of kids. DE is a great thing if used properly. Just have to be careful and know what it can and can’t do, how much it might cost, and what the risks might be in terms of financial aid by taking free credits now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can people please focus?!

This is OP. I'm asking about Dual Enrollment at COMMUNITY COLLEGES. I'm not asking about special programs between high schools and 4-yr universities. Yes, we know that classes from many 4-yr universities will be accepted by their counterparts. NEWS FLASH: Their counterparts are not community colleges.

And, BTW, these partnerships with 4-yr schools where they send someone to teach on the high school campuses seem pretty neat. I'd love to take the GIS class!

I responded about son taking DE classes. I don't know what your are talking about in this quoted post. DE classes are taken at the high school

Virginia 4-year schools have a transfer agreement with VA community colleges, especially with the 2-year transfer degree. How would that not be beneficial to students that can't/don't want to spend so much?

[Anonymous]

If a high school doesn't offer AP/IB then DE will be the most rigorous curriculum and the student will generally not be disadvantaged in admissions to competitive schools, although the credits may not transfer if it's not the in-state U. If the school does have AP/IB, highly ranked schools generally seem to prefer that over CC DE classes since AP/IB are more of a known quantity.

However, DE can be a really great option for a student who knows they want to go to a college that has an agreement with that CC. My cousin's kids in the midwest went to a HS with a robust CC-DE program and graduated HS with AA degrees which fully transferred to their state Us. One kid is on a path to med school and cost savings of two years of college meant a lot. The other kids ended up doing a double major and still graduated from college in 3 years.

My kids' experience with DE has been that it's at the the HS but for a kid who is not happy with the traditional HS experience, a program where you go to the CC may provide the independence they want. Not everyone is aiming for a top 30 USNWR ranked school and not everyone wants the same HS experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can people please focus?!

This is OP. I'm asking about Dual Enrollment at COMMUNITY COLLEGES. I'm not asking about special programs between high schools and 4-yr universities. Yes, we know that classes from many 4-yr universities will be accepted by their counterparts. NEWS FLASH: Their counterparts are not community colleges.

And, BTW, these partnerships with 4-yr schools where they send someone to teach on the high school campuses seem pretty neat. I'd love to take the GIS class!

I responded about son taking DE classes. I don't know what your are talking about in this quoted post. DE classes are taken at the high school

Virginia 4-year schools have a transfer agreement with VA community colleges, especially with the 2-year transfer degree. How would that not be beneficial to students that can't/don't want to spend so much?

This. If you are going to an in-state public U you actually have a higher likelihood of the credit transferring if you do the CC DE vs. hoping you get the right score on the AP test at the end of the year.

[Anonymous]

I sometimes have to evaluate DE courses for potential credit transfer into my college. I end up rejecting almost all of them because we have very strict rules about what kind of DE counts. If you already have a pretty good sense of DC's college trajectory and specific schools in mind, it could be OK if you know the policies inside out and those policies are unlikely to change (and even then I would still get confirmation before enrolling in DE, and even _then_ I would still be open to the possibility of the credit not transferring after all).

To me the main reason to pursue DE is if it is a productive way for the individual student to learn: the right subject, right training, right opportunity, right level, or something like that. Credit transfer is just a gamble unless you know exactly what colleges you are working with.

I've seen DE credit invoked for HS students for classes that were much less demanding than a college course, and at precisely the same level that one would take in HS anyway. Not productive--except for the DE-granting school that collected money from the families to record credits I can't transfer.

[Anonymous]

My kid hated HS and chose to take all his classes Jr and Sr year at the local community college. He was involved in community music groups but some friends did DE part time so they could continue in the HS jazz band or orchestra. The community college is on quarters which allows students to take more courses in total and also offers many more choices than are available at the HS (including more advanced math options). My son ended up at a university which is also on quarters so he was prepared for the faster pace. And he got a lot of credits (which he could have gotten through AP too). But mainly he was so much happier. I'm glad it was an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I sometimes have to evaluate DE courses for potential credit transfer into my college. I end up rejecting almost all of them because we have very strict rules about what kind of DE counts. If you already have a pretty good sense of DC's college trajectory and specific schools in mind, it could be OK if you know the policies inside out and those policies are unlikely to change (and even then I would still get confirmation before enrolling in DE, and even _then_ I would still be open to the possibility of the credit not transferring after all).

To me the main reason to pursue DE is if it is a productive way for the individual student to learn: the right subject, right training, right opportunity, right level, or something like that. Credit transfer is just a gamble unless you know exactly what colleges you are working with.

I've seen DE credit invoked for HS students for classes that were much less demanding than a college course, and at precisely the same level that one would take in HS anyway. Not productive--except for the DE-granting school that collected money from the families to record credits I can't transfer.

Isn’t it the same with AP? Many college aren’t accepting those credits either. Colleges figured out they lose money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can people please focus?!

This is OP. I'm asking about Dual Enrollment at COMMUNITY COLLEGES. I'm not asking about special programs between high schools and 4-yr universities. Yes, we know that classes from many 4-yr universities will be accepted by their counterparts. NEWS FLASH: Their counterparts are not community colleges.

And, BTW, these partnerships with 4-yr schools where they send someone to teach on the high school campuses seem pretty neat. I'd love to take the GIS class!

Can you please realize that you are posting on a local board, and people are obviously only going to know about what DE programs are in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fcps dual enrollment courses are absolutely nowhere near college level and are not college content. They are dumbed down for high school students that aren’t ready for AP or Ib classes. Tell me why the AP lit students are analyzing complex literature and the dual enrollment students are working on college admissions essays in what is supposed to be a college class?

This is why most top colleges do not accept dual enrollment credit, but instead only accept transfer credit if the course is a standard undergraduate course in which the majority of students are undergrads and require a syllabus review.

What is the DE course you are speaking of?

I would assume English

[Anonymous]

Dual Enrollment in MC is where you take classes either at MC or the high school.

https://www.montgomerycollege.edu/high-school-students/dual-enrollment/index.html

Its a huge benefit as you only pay limited fees vs. for the classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fcps dual enrollment courses are absolutely nowhere near college level and are not college content. They are dumbed down for high school students that aren’t ready for AP or Ib classes. Tell me why the AP lit students are analyzing complex literature and the dual enrollment students are working on college admissions essays in what is supposed to be a college class?

This is why most top colleges do not accept dual enrollment credit, but instead only accept transfer credit if the course is a standard undergraduate course in which the majority of students are undergrads and require a syllabus review.

What is the DE course you are speaking of?

I would assume English

I teach a DE course in FCPS. There is not much oversight to make sure they are getting college level material. I do my best but the kids are definitely on the weaker side. The more advanced kids take AP. In FCPS it is meant to be a class for kids who would not be successful in AP. I know that our top colleges will not accept DE credit and I can understand that. I think pushing DE is not the best route. If kids want college credit, do the work and pass an AP test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To be blunt OP, it doesn’t make sense to you because you are living in a different universe than they are. I don’t mean that in an insulting way.

The options available to you and your family are not realistic for them and their family. It is similar to the Radford discussion here the other day. We aren’t talking “oh your kid ONLY got into UVA but it’s not so bad because we are full pay”.

It is hey I was raised by a single mom working three part time jobs, I can’t get into UVA, but I got a two year DE degree and then my RN from a place like Radford and I am now middle class.

That’s a greater achievement relative to opportunity than most DC private school kids can boast. DE can do that for a lot of kids. DE is a great thing if used properly. Just have to be careful and know what it can and can’t do, how much it might cost, and what the risks might be in terms of financial aid by taking free credits now.

+1

[Anonymous]

There is a large variety of dual enrollment programs from lower-standard courses that are less rigorous than the top high school classss to much higher-level courses that are way more rigorous than AP courses. For some advanced students, dual enrollment is a life saver to keep them going academically when they run out of high school challenge in specific areas, especially for STEM courses. For advanced math students in FCPS, for example, GMU has county-wide recognition for at least 3 or 4 post-AP math courses and 5-6 for specific high schools, up to a fourth year university complex analysis course. These dual enrollment opportunities should be expanded and do serve a purpose to enable large numbers of students to learn at a good pace while be the most cost efficient for the school system.


.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends on what circumstances your family faces. In many parts of VA DE is pushed by schools. Many of the kids would be looking at CC anyway, they are getting a head start. DE meets the needs of a lot of people.

But if you are looking at a high end 4 year university, DE doesn’t make as much sense because the credits often don’t transfer, AP scores are much more widely accepted. And something like having a two year degree in high school via DE is actively looked down on by one in state university in VA in particular. I have a kid there, but they have a certain reputation that is well earned. Started at third base and think they hit a triple as an institution.

It depends on what situation your family and your child is in. My older kids took AP, but there is a specific program my younger son is looking at in state where it would be very useful to take DE calculus rather than AP calc. That way he knows for sure he would already have the credit. And if you want to, can always take the AP test anyway.

Depends on your situation. I know of some low income kids that got two year degree in high school and then two years at a university and graduated at 20 with next to no debt. Not stupid, however much some schools and some parents may pretend otherwise.

Name the school and source for your assertion or it’s not credible. Also, what does the underlined part mean?

[Anonymous]

There’s a ton of misinformation about DE in this thread.