Why isn’t the four-year sentence for a miscarriage a bigger story?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im a hospice chaplain. I held a baby as she died having seizure after seizure due to her drug addicted mother. There were other issues as well, likely from drug and alcohol use. Even after holding that precious infant, I wouldn’t want her mother jailed. That’s barbaric. It does nothing to deter future drug use. It doesn’t help the baby. And it’s a dangerous path. Would you like to go to jail for drinking before you knew you were pregnant? Should smokers go to prison if their babies are low birth weight? What if you slip up and eat too much sugar with gestational diabetes? What if I ride a roller coaster and miscarry? Morning after pill?

Think people. It is a tragic story. She miscarried. That should NEVER come with prison.

She's irresponsible and jail is a punishment for that. Jail is not really meant to be a deterrent. She should of either sought out an abortion or entered a rehab program as soon as she found out she was pregnant.

Then maybe jail is not an effective way to deal with this issue…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people who created and profited from these drugs donate loads of money to museums. They are honored and lauded while making addicts of newborns.

The Sackler family.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/28/1040447650/payouts-purdue-pharma-settlement-sackler

The Sackler family is persona non grata now.

Poor billionaires. Life is just so unfair to the wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im a hospice chaplain. I held a baby as she died having seizure after seizure due to her drug addicted mother. There were other issues as well, likely from drug and alcohol use. Even after holding that precious infant, I wouldn’t want her mother jailed. That’s barbaric. It does nothing to deter future drug use. It doesn’t help the baby. And it’s a dangerous path. Would you like to go to jail for drinking before you knew you were pregnant? Should smokers go to prison if their babies are low birth weight? What if you slip up and eat too much sugar with gestational diabetes? What if I ride a roller coaster and miscarry? Morning after pill?

Think people. It is a tragic story. She miscarried. That should NEVER come with prison.

She's irresponsible and jail is a punishment for that. Jail is not really meant to be a deterrent. She should of either sought out an abortion or entered a rehab program as soon as she found out she was pregnant.

Then maybe jail is not an effective way to deal with this issue…

Jail serves many purposes. Sometimes all of them, sometimes not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people who created and profited from these drugs donate loads of money to museums. They are honored and lauded while making addicts of newborns.

The Sackler family.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/28/1040447650/payouts-purdue-pharma-settlement-sackler

The Sackler family is persona non grata now.

Poor billionaires. Life is just so unfair to the wealthy.

They're not lauded and honored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im a hospice chaplain. I held a baby as she died having seizure after seizure due to her drug addicted mother. There were other issues as well, likely from drug and alcohol use. Even after holding that precious infant, I wouldn’t want her mother jailed. That’s barbaric. It does nothing to deter future drug use. It doesn’t help the baby. And it’s a dangerous path. Would you like to go to jail for drinking before you knew you were pregnant? Should smokers go to prison if their babies are low birth weight? What if you slip up and eat too much sugar with gestational diabetes? What if I ride a roller coaster and miscarry? Morning after pill?

Think people. It is a tragic story. She miscarried. That should NEVER come with prison.

She's irresponsible and jail is a punishment for that. Jail is not really meant to be a deterrent. She should of either sought out an abortion or entered a rehab program as soon as she found out she was pregnant.

Then maybe jail is not an effective way to deal with this issue…

Jail serves many purposes. Sometimes all of them, sometimes not.

But isn’t or shouldn’t the ultimate goal of jail time be to protect society from the person being jailed? And if jail time proves to not be a good deterrent to future crimes and we’re also not planning to keep everyone in jail for life sentences then shouldn’t the goal be to rehab/successfully deter that person from re offending after release? Otherwise what’s the point? Waste of tax $$ and energy for an outcome that will likely not help anyone if jail time proves to not be a deterrent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im a hospice chaplain. I held a baby as she died having seizure after seizure due to her drug addicted mother. There were other issues as well, likely from drug and alcohol use. Even after holding that precious infant, I wouldn’t want her mother jailed. That’s barbaric. It does nothing to deter future drug use. It doesn’t help the baby. And it’s a dangerous path. Would you like to go to jail for drinking before you knew you were pregnant? Should smokers go to prison if their babies are low birth weight? What if you slip up and eat too much sugar with gestational diabetes? What if I ride a roller coaster and miscarry? Morning after pill?

Think people. It is a tragic story. She miscarried. That should NEVER come with prison.

She's irresponsible and jail is a punishment for that. Jail is not really meant to be a deterrent. She should of either sought out an abortion or entered a rehab program as soon as she found out she was pregnant.

Then maybe jail is not an effective way to deal with this issue…

Jail serves many purposes. Sometimes all of them, sometimes not.

But isn’t or shouldn’t the ultimate goal of jail time be to protect society from the person being jailed? And if jail time proves to not be a good deterrent to future crimes and we’re also not planning to keep everyone in jail for life sentences then shouldn’t the goal be to rehab/successfully deter that person from re offending after release? Otherwise what’s the point? Waste of tax $$ and energy for an outcome that will likely not help anyone if jail time proves to not be a deterrent.

Purposes of jail: retribution, incapacitation, deterrence and rehabilitation. Deterrence is only one purpose of jail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im a hospice chaplain. I held a baby as she died having seizure after seizure due to her drug addicted mother. There were other issues as well, likely from drug and alcohol use. Even after holding that precious infant, I wouldn’t want her mother jailed. That’s barbaric. It does nothing to deter future drug use. It doesn’t help the baby. And it’s a dangerous path. Would you like to go to jail for drinking before you knew you were pregnant? Should smokers go to prison if their babies are low birth weight? What if you slip up and eat too much sugar with gestational diabetes? What if I ride a roller coaster and miscarry? Morning after pill?

Think people. It is a tragic story. She miscarried. That should NEVER come with prison.

She's irresponsible and jail is a punishment for that. Jail is not really meant to be a deterrent. She should of either sought out an abortion or entered a rehab program as soon as she found out she was pregnant.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get a space in a rehab program— if you’re not wealthy? You’re arguing that she should have “sought out an abortion …as soon as she found out she was pregnant “. I hope that means that you are doing what you can to ensure that abortions are available and affordable for every woman and girl who might need one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand that drug addiction is an illness but I really don't feel bad for this woman. Maybe she can get clean in jail. My aunt was a NICU nurse and worked with too many inconsolable babies who were suffering, screaming and shaking from the symptoms of drug withdrawal. Her stories about these babies whom almost never had visitors and would often end up in foster care was heartbreaking.

Do you think people get drug treatment in jail? You sweet summer child.

[Anonymous]

It's completely discriminatory against women who are devalued in society.

That said, this is NOT news -- it's been happening for decades and generations and over 40 years ever since Roe v Wade established that the state has a right to a child when it's still in it's mother's womb.

Those of us in reproductive rights (including the right to have a child) have known about if for years.

But what can we do? When I went to the National Women's Law Center to do this work, they admitted that it's not controversial so no one is donating money to it -- everyone agrees that it's messed up.

If you really care about this issue, join us! We care. We are just small in number and try to get out the word that pregnant women (NOT even women trying to get rid of a baby) are being harmed and threatened -- court-ordered c-section, handcuffed during labor, CPS called for planned home births. Women are still not equal to men -- but it's not abortion or sex ed so it's not "hot". Get it on the news! We've tried!

Follow ICAN (international cesarean awareness Network)
Change for Women's Rights
National Women's Law Center
La leche league

We are out there but we are small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im a hospice chaplain. I held a baby as she died having seizure after seizure due to her drug addicted mother. There were other issues as well, likely from drug and alcohol use. Even after holding that precious infant, I wouldn’t want her mother jailed. That’s barbaric. It does nothing to deter future drug use. It doesn’t help the baby. And it’s a dangerous path. Would you like to go to jail for drinking before you knew you were pregnant? Should smokers go to prison if their babies are low birth weight? What if you slip up and eat too much sugar with gestational diabetes? What if I ride a roller coaster and miscarry? Morning after pill?

Think people. It is a tragic story. She miscarried. That should NEVER come with prison.

She's irresponsible and jail is a punishment for that. Jail is not really meant to be a deterrent. She should of either sought out an abortion or entered a rehab program as soon as she found out she was pregnant.

Just like the father has to? Or did he go to jail too? These programs discriminate against women. It's BS and illegal. Stop devaluing women. They aren't baby makers. Some guy got her pregnant and he is NOT being held to this standard because it is ridiculous and illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im a hospice chaplain. I held a baby as she died having seizure after seizure due to her drug addicted mother. There were other issues as well, likely from drug and alcohol use. Even after holding that precious infant, I wouldn’t want her mother jailed. That’s barbaric. It does nothing to deter future drug use. It doesn’t help the baby. And it’s a dangerous path. Would you like to go to jail for drinking before you knew you were pregnant? Should smokers go to prison if their babies are low birth weight? What if you slip up and eat too much sugar with gestational diabetes? What if I ride a roller coaster and miscarry? Morning after pill?

Think people. It is a tragic story. She miscarried. That should NEVER come with prison.

She's irresponsible and jail is a punishment for that. Jail is not really meant to be a deterrent. She should of either sought out an abortion or entered a rehab program as soon as she found out she was pregnant.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get a space in a rehab program— if you’re not wealthy? You’re arguing that she should have “sought out an abortion …as soon as she found out she was pregnant “. I hope that means that you are doing what you can to ensure that abortions are available and affordable for every woman and girl who might need one.

Free because the man didn't have to pay for it! This is incredibly biased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im a hospice chaplain. I held a baby as she died having seizure after seizure due to her drug addicted mother. There were other issues as well, likely from drug and alcohol use. Even after holding that precious infant, I wouldn’t want her mother jailed. That’s barbaric. It does nothing to deter future drug use. It doesn’t help the baby. And it’s a dangerous path. Would you like to go to jail for drinking before you knew you were pregnant? Should smokers go to prison if their babies are low birth weight? What if you slip up and eat too much sugar with gestational diabetes? What if I ride a roller coaster and miscarry? Morning after pill?

Think people. It is a tragic story. She miscarried. That should NEVER come with prison.

She's irresponsible and jail is a punishment for that. Jail is not really meant to be a deterrent. She should of either sought out an abortion or entered a rehab program as soon as she found out she was pregnant.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get a space in a rehab program— if you’re not wealthy? You’re arguing that she should have “sought out an abortion …as soon as she found out she was pregnant “. I hope that means that you are doing what you can to ensure that abortions are available and affordable for every woman and girl who might need one.

Sending someone to jail and no treatment is pointless. However, it depends on where you live. In Moco, they have a free inpatient program as well as multiple free outpatient programs. Its not as hard as you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why? Because she is brown and poor, and has a history of drug addiction. If she were white the other two would be reason for compassion.

My mom worked nicu at a hospital in a white very upper class area. She said so many of the women would just do cocaine to induce labor. They test every baby for drugs when they are born. They’d just note on the chart that the baby was cocaine positive and go on with their day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just glad that poor kid never had to be born to such a loser mom. At least she won’t be having another drug addicted baby for the next four years.

100% this

This is so stupid. Laws like these won’t hit home with UMC women until it’s too late.

Imagine a college boyfriend who’s angry you broke up with him retaliating by saying you were drinking so you caused your miscarriage. Or better yet, a contentious divorce. What better way to get everything than to put the ex-wife in jail? Have you ever taken medication for depression? Anxiety? A glass of wine? An edible? Deli meat? Sushi? Exercised?

Once you open the door to criminalizing miscarriages, all adult women can be a target any time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just glad that poor kid never had to be born to such a loser mom. At least she won’t be having another drug addicted baby for the next four years.

100% this

This is so stupid. Laws like these won’t hit home with UMC women until it’s too late.

Imagine a college boyfriend who’s angry you broke up with him retaliating by saying you were drinking so you caused your miscarriage. Or better yet, a contentious divorce. What better way to get everything than to put the ex-wife in jail? Have you ever taken medication for depression? Anxiety? A glass of wine? An edible? Deli meat? Sushi? Exercised?

Once you open the door to criminalizing miscarriages, all adult women can be a target any time.

Everything in your list is legal. Do you understand the difference between sushi and crystal meth? One is ordinary life, the other is illegal to possess.