FCPS Boundary Review Updates

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think connecting the timber lane island with a bit from falls hill so it’s “connected” on map is fine if it’s needed but don’t think we need to extend to 50. My kid went to timber lane. Longfellow, and now is at McLean. We are equal distant to McLean, Marshall, and Falls church but the kids by 50 are much closer to falls church.

They are doing anything to bump capacity up at Cooper and Langley to cut FHES to Herndon.

Sending kids that border Loudoun Co. to Langley is insane.

As insane as sending kids near 50 to McLean? because I looked and it adds the exact same amount of time to their commute.

Like it or not, the difference to HMS is within a couple minutes commute of Cooper and less than ten to HHS vs Langley.

Your equity obsession is showing.

They aren't proposing (yet) to send kids near Route 50 to McLean, just to Longfellow. They would leave these kids at Falls Church. Of course, that's even more bizarre, since about 95% of Longfellow goes to McLean. I guess they left them at Falls Church because they didn't want to add kids to overcrowded McLean, and maybe they even realized Falls Church is getting expanded, but all that should have also suggested leaving these kids at Jackson and maintaining the fairly even split feeder at Timber Lane.

Same analysis holds for Longfellow. The person who thinks it’s insane to send great falls to Langley surely feels the same about busing these poor kids to Longfellow, right?

I don't think that the proposed Timber Lane/Longfellow adjustment to 50 makes any sense. But if you are trying to convince me that Forestville should go anywhere other than Herndon, you'll fail. If I pick a nice central location on Seneca, it is 4 miles and less than 10 min from Herndon. It is 11 miles and 22 minutes (non-rush!) to Langley. There's simply no argument except people want to go to the rich school.

But I'm not just going to call out Forestville. Why is Westbriar the way it is, and why on earth would the western kids go to Marshall? Langley, Marshall, Madison, and McLean need to be more compact and be prepped to divide up any growth in Tysons.

You are picking the furthest point in Forestville intentionally, and it’s clear what your agenda is. The fact is that on average from Forestville you save two minutes to HMS than Cooper, and 9 to HHS from Langley. Those are rounding errors, despite you trying to convince everyone that it’s otherwise.

I already know you’ll call me an “equity warrior” but Katy Perry could have seen that FVES should go to Herndon from her little outer space jaunt.

So, who should go to Langley to replace them?

They are slowly sneaking the over-capacity McLean into Langley. The 4/11 projections are sneaky because the new capacities are WITH modulars. There should be an additional column to show new capacities WITHOUT.

CIP provides these projections and McLean for example, goes from 103% to 118% for 2030 with and then without modulars.

They will re-highlight the need to rid of modulars for the capacity studies even though parents have said it’s fine to have them.

Many of the 4/11 capacities sitting under their new limit of 105% will sky rocket - hence, Franklin Sherman moving into Langley, pushing FVES out. The other Langley ES schools have have some capacity shifts as well towards under-capacity Great Falls ES.

The projections are MEANINGLESS. None of them are taking into account: RIFs, ripple-effect layoffs, ICE removals, VERAs/Forks, and all the other ripple effects.

Projections from last year = UTTER GARBAGE.

Halt the adjustment!

Essentially everyone on this thread is against the rezoning. But it’s happening. They have been very public about the timeline, especially now with the next meeting details released and community engagement moved up.

Now is the time to get your neighbors engaged for the next round of community meetings. I was shocked how many of mine different know about it just last month and we are on a boundary.

Provide constructive instructions during the meetings. Use the current “ask a question” function on the boundary website - they will reply even if it’s a canned response but helpful, intention thoughts may move some needles.

[Anonymous]

Did community engagement / opposition work during the South Lakes boundary changes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did community engagement / opposition work during the South Lakes boundary changes?

Sure. Great engagement between Stu Gibson and the South Lakes PTA. He did everything they asked.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah — looking at the numbers — Carson will be the toughest split feeder to fix.

Franklin and Chantilly fix is possible if kids return to their base school. That may be an easier pill to digest given both schools are excellent in their own right.

Also the TJ 1.5% change, increases the appeal of Franklin MS as Carson is the biggest loser with the TJ admission changes.

Carson was built big. Base on it's location maybe split feed with Herndon spinning off the huge Hutchison so an AAP center fits in Herndon MS. Doing anything is always a problem with IB at South Lakes. ...just waiting for FCPS to proclaim the desirability of IB based on transfers from Herndon...

Just incredible that FCPS/Thru sits BRAC by region...Marshall!!!

1 Carson oakton 273 Franklin
5 Rocky Run chantilly 239 124 Liberty+86 Stone+ 29 Franklin
4 Lake Braddock lake braddock 236 54 Robinson+31 Hayfield + 11Holmess+106 Irving =34 Key
3 Twain edison 155 88 Hayfield+ 67 Key
2 Glasgow justice 130 29 Poe+ 101 Holmes
1 Hughes south lakes 118 Herndon
3 Sandburg west potomac 101 Whitman
6 Hayfield hayfield 100 Mount Vernon massive for no AAP
2 Jackson falles church 96 Thoreau
5 Frost woodson 62 47 Poe + 15 Holmes
5 Kilmer marshall 39 Thorau
2 Longfellow mclean 14 Kilmer immersion?

There's absolutely no reason that 273 students should be transferred from Franklin to Carson because of AAP and then another 29 from Franklin to Rocky Run. It sounds to me that with those 300+ students, Franklin absolutely should have its own dedicated AAP program.

I don't understand what these numbers mean: 5 Rocky Run chantilly 239 124 Liberty+86 Stone+ 29 Franklin

Are these the amount of students they want to move out of these schools?

[Anonymous]

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Only Fox Mill and a small pocket of Floris kids go to SLHS (roughly 25% or less).

It's far more than a small pocket of Floris going to South Lakes. It may not be half, but it is more than a pocket.
Add that to Fox Mill, and I would guess it is close to 30 % of those in boundary. (Some may PP out.)

No way.

McNair: 512
McNair upper: 616
Coates: 951
Crossfield: 556
Floris: 699
Fox Mill: 645
Total: 3979
Fox Mill + Half of floris= 995 or 25% (and less than half of Floris kids go to SLHS)

By the way Crossfield/Oakton is lees than 15% (and the FCPS puts Carson under Oakton boundary).

More than 60% of Carson kids live in Westfield boundary.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Any idea roughly what % of Carson goes to each of the 4 high schools? With the new <25% guideline on split feeders, let’s see which are the likely high schools which will be most impacted.

I am pretty sure Carson's boundaries only split to three high schools-- Oakton, Westfield, and South Lakes. I am guessing it's approximately 33% of each, but that's based on a visual estimate based on looking at boundary maps, so it's not scientific at all.

The students who go to Chantilly are actually from the Franklin district, but they chose Carson for AAP.

Yes only three way split for non AAP.

Elementary schools for Carson non AAP are Coates, McNair, Floris, Fox Mill and Crossfield.

Only Crossfield kids go to Oakton. (so roughly 20% or less)

Only Fox Mill and a small pocket of Floris kids go to SLHS (roughly 25% or less).

Carson non AAP is more or less Westfield feeder. It’s just it’s AAP is huge and many AAP kids go to Chantilly or Oakton.

So maybe the better solution is to send Crossfield kids to Franklin so they can be with other Oakton kids and if the AAP parents want their kid to go to Carson then fine, that's like 10-15 kids a year.

That’s what I orignally said. Franklin overlaps with OHS way more than Carson does but for some reason, people don’t see that.

I am very curious of what they are going to propose.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Any idea roughly what % of Carson goes to each of the 4 high schools? With the new <25% guideline on split feeders, let’s see which are the likely high schools which will be most impacted.

I am pretty sure Carson's boundaries only split to three high schools-- Oakton, Westfield, and South Lakes. I am guessing it's approximately 33% of each, but that's based on a visual estimate based on looking at boundary maps, so it's not scientific at all.

The students who go to Chantilly are actually from the Franklin district, but they chose Carson for AAP.

Yes only three way split for non AAP.

Elementary schools for Carson non AAP are Coates, McNair, Floris, Fox Mill and Crossfield.

Only Crossfield kids go to Oakton. (so roughly 20% or less)

Only Fox Mill and a small pocket of Floris kids go to SLHS (roughly 25% or less).

Carson non AAP is more or less Westfield feeder. It’s just it’s AAP is huge and many AAP kids go to Chantilly or Oakton.

So maybe the better solution is to send Crossfield kids to Franklin so they can be with other Oakton kids and if the AAP parents want their kid to go to Carson then fine, that's like 10-15 kids a year.

The solution is to simply send all kids back to their base schools. AAP centers confuse everything and are totally unnecessary at this point.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any idea roughly what % of Carson goes to each of the 4 high schools? With the new <25% guideline on split feeders, let’s see which are the likely high schools which will be most impacted.

I am pretty sure Carson's boundaries only split to three high schools-- Oakton, Westfield, and South Lakes. I am guessing it's approximately 33% of each, but that's based on a visual estimate based on looking at boundary maps, so it's not scientific at all.

The students who go to Chantilly are actually from the Franklin district, but they chose Carson for AAP.

Yes only three way split for non AAP.

Elementary schools for Carson non AAP are Coates, McNair, Floris, Fox Mill and Crossfield.

Only Crossfield kids go to Oakton. (so roughly 20% or less)

Only Fox Mill and a small pocket of Floris kids go to SLHS (roughly 25% or less).

Carson non AAP is more or less Westfield feeder. It’s just it’s AAP is huge and many AAP kids go to Chantilly or Oakton.

So maybe the better solution is to send Crossfield kids to Franklin so they can be with other Oakton kids and if the AAP parents want their kid to go to Carson then fine, that's like 10-15 kids a year.

The solution is to simply send all kids back to their base schools. AAP centers confuse everything and are totally unnecessary at this point.
DP

That doesn’t solve the three way split problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah — looking at the numbers — Carson will be the toughest split feeder to fix.

Franklin and Chantilly fix is possible if kids return to their base school. That may be an easier pill to digest given both schools are excellent in their own right.

Also the TJ 1.5% change, increases the appeal of Franklin MS as Carson is the biggest loser with the TJ admission changes.

Carson was built big. Base on it's location maybe split feed with Herndon spinning off the huge Hutchison so an AAP center fits in Herndon MS. Doing anything is always a problem with IB at South Lakes. ...just waiting for FCPS to proclaim the desirability of IB based on transfers from Herndon...

Just incredible that FCPS/Thru sits BRAC by region...Marshall!!!

1 Carson oakton 273 Franklin
5 Rocky Run chantilly 239 124 Liberty+86 Stone+ 29 Franklin
4 Lake Braddock lake braddock 236 54 Robinson+31 Hayfield + 11Holmess+106 Irving =34 Key
3 Twain edison 155 88 Hayfield+ 67 Key
2 Glasgow justice 130 29 Poe+ 101 Holmes
1 Hughes south lakes 118 Herndon
3 Sandburg west potomac 101 Whitman
6 Hayfield hayfield 100 Mount Vernon massive for no AAP
2 Jackson falles church 96 Thoreau
5 Frost woodson 62 47 Poe + 15 Holmes
5 Kilmer marshall 39 Thorau
2 Longfellow mclean 14 Kilmer immersion?

There's absolutely no reason that 273 students should be transferred from Franklin to Carson because of AAP and then another 29 from Franklin to Rocky Run. It sounds to me that with those 300+ students, Franklin absolutely should have its own dedicated AAP program.

I don't understand what these numbers mean: 5 Rocky Run chantilly 239 124 Liberty+86 Stone+ 29 Franklin

Are these the amount of students they want to move out of these schools?

No, a PP wanted to highlight how many kids are transferring into Rocky Run this year, presumably for AAP.

It means Rocky Run is in Region 5 and the Chantilly pyramid, and that there are 239 transfers into Rocky Run, consisting of 124 kids whose school is Liberty, 86 from Stone, and 29 from Franklin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Only Fox Mill and a small pocket of Floris kids go to SLHS (roughly 25% or less).

It's far more than a small pocket of Floris going to South Lakes. It may not be half, but it is more than a pocket.
Add that to Fox Mill, and I would guess it is close to 30 % of those in boundary. (Some may PP out.)

No way.

McNair: 512
McNair upper: 616
Coates: 951
Crossfield: 556
Floris: 699
Fox Mill: 645
Total: 3979
Fox Mill + Half of floris= 995 or 25% (and less than half of Floris kids go to SLHS)

By the way Crossfield/Oakton is lees than 15% (and the FCPS puts Carson under Oakton boundary).

More than 60% of Carson kids live in Westfield boundary.

Yes. the largest percentage go to Westfield, but not as high as you say.

Some of Coates goes to Herndon Middle. No idea how many, but at least 50, I think
McNair numbers include 136 preschool. So you need to subtract that from Westfield number.
Crossfield number does not include the 51 that go to Navy for AAP. So that number should be 607.
Fox Mill has 29 that go to Oak Hill for AAP. So add that number to South Lakes.


Also, the formula for figuring how many kids go to a school yields fewer in apartments for high school. So, it is unlikely that the apartments feeding to Westfield will yield that many kids.

So, while the largest number goes to Westfield from Carson, I think the other percentages are higher than you suggest--especially when you apply a different yield to the apartments for high school kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any idea roughly what % of Carson goes to each of the 4 high schools? With the new <25% guideline on split feeders, let’s see which are the likely high schools which will be most impacted.

I am pretty sure Carson's boundaries only split to three high schools-- Oakton, Westfield, and South Lakes. I am guessing it's approximately 33% of each, but that's based on a visual estimate based on looking at boundary maps, so it's not scientific at all.

The students who go to Chantilly are actually from the Franklin district, but they chose Carson for AAP.

Yes only three way split for non AAP.

Elementary schools for Carson non AAP are Coates, McNair, Floris, Fox Mill and Crossfield.

Only Crossfield kids go to Oakton. (so roughly 20% or less)

Only Fox Mill and a small pocket of Floris kids go to SLHS (roughly 25% or less).

Carson non AAP is more or less Westfield feeder. It’s just it’s AAP is huge and many AAP kids go to Chantilly or Oakton.

So maybe the better solution is to send Crossfield kids to Franklin so they can be with other Oakton kids and if the AAP parents want their kid to go to Carson then fine, that's like 10-15 kids a year.

The solution is to simply send all kids back to their base schools. AAP centers confuse everything and are totally unnecessary at this point.
DP

That doesn’t solve the three way split problem.

I don’t think they are looking to solve all splits, just peel off the splits that are less than 25% at a split feeder. That might make a three way split a two way split and involve some consolidation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any idea roughly what % of Carson goes to each of the 4 high schools? With the new <25% guideline on split feeders, let’s see which are the likely high schools which will be most impacted.

I am pretty sure Carson's boundaries only split to three high schools-- Oakton, Westfield, and South Lakes. I am guessing it's approximately 33% of each, but that's based on a visual estimate based on looking at boundary maps, so it's not scientific at all.

The students who go to Chantilly are actually from the Franklin district, but they chose Carson for AAP.

Yes only three way split for non AAP.

Elementary schools for Carson non AAP are Coates, McNair, Floris, Fox Mill and Crossfield.

Only Crossfield kids go to Oakton. (so roughly 20% or less)

Only Fox Mill and a small pocket of Floris kids go to SLHS (roughly 25% or less).

Carson non AAP is more or less Westfield feeder. It’s just it’s AAP is huge and many AAP kids go to Chantilly or Oakton.

So maybe the better solution is to send Crossfield kids to Franklin so they can be with other Oakton kids and if the AAP parents want their kid to go to Carson then fine, that's like 10-15 kids a year.

The solution is to simply send all kids back to their base schools. AAP centers confuse everything and are totally unnecessary at this point.
DP

Sure, that works. I bet the Voluntary Transfer Window next February will see a big surge in Carson to Franklin as the staff follows the students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any idea roughly what % of Carson goes to each of the 4 high schools? With the new <25% guideline on split feeders, let’s see which are the likely high schools which will be most impacted.

I am pretty sure Carson's boundaries only split to three high schools-- Oakton, Westfield, and South Lakes. I am guessing it's approximately 33% of each, but that's based on a visual estimate based on looking at boundary maps, so it's not scientific at all.

The students who go to Chantilly are actually from the Franklin district, but they chose Carson for AAP.

Yes only three way split for non AAP.

Elementary schools for Carson non AAP are Coates, McNair, Floris, Fox Mill and Crossfield.

Only Crossfield kids go to Oakton. (so roughly 20% or less)

Only Fox Mill and a small pocket of Floris kids go to SLHS (roughly 25% or less).

Carson non AAP is more or less Westfield feeder. It’s just it’s AAP is huge and many AAP kids go to Chantilly or Oakton.

So maybe the better solution is to send Crossfield kids to Franklin so they can be with other Oakton kids and if the AAP parents want their kid to go to Carson then fine, that's like 10-15 kids a year.

The solution is to simply send all kids back to their base schools. AAP centers confuse everything and are totally unnecessary at this point.
DP

Sure, that works. I bet the Voluntary Transfer Window next February will see a big surge in Carson to Franklin as the staff follows the students.

Oh, if they go through with this boundary fruitbasket turnover, the voluntary transfers and retirements are going to surge everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any idea roughly what % of Carson goes to each of the 4 high schools? With the new <25% guideline on split feeders, let’s see which are the likely high schools which will be most impacted.

I am pretty sure Carson's boundaries only split to three high schools-- Oakton, Westfield, and South Lakes. I am guessing it's approximately 33% of each, but that's based on a visual estimate based on looking at boundary maps, so it's not scientific at all.

The students who go to Chantilly are actually from the Franklin district, but they chose Carson for AAP.

Yes only three way split for non AAP.

Elementary schools for Carson non AAP are Coates, McNair, Floris, Fox Mill and Crossfield.

Only Crossfield kids go to Oakton. (so roughly 20% or less)

Only Fox Mill and a small pocket of Floris kids go to SLHS (roughly 25% or less).

Carson non AAP is more or less Westfield feeder. It’s just it’s AAP is huge and many AAP kids go to Chantilly or Oakton.

So maybe the better solution is to send Crossfield kids to Franklin so they can be with other Oakton kids and if the AAP parents want their kid to go to Carson then fine, that's like 10-15 kids a year.

The solution is to simply send all kids back to their base schools. AAP centers confuse everything and are totally unnecessary at this point.
DP

That doesn’t solve the three way split problem.

I don’t think they are looking to solve all splits, just peel off the splits that are less than 25% at a split feeder. That might make a three way split a two way split and involve some consolidation.

I don’t disagree. Two way split would be acceptable. But they will propose something and some people won’t be happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Only Fox Mill and a small pocket of Floris kids go to SLHS (roughly 25% or less).

It's far more than a small pocket of Floris going to South Lakes. It may not be half, but it is more than a pocket.
Add that to Fox Mill, and I would guess it is close to 30 % of those in boundary. (Some may PP out.)

No way.

McNair: 512
McNair upper: 616
Coates: 951
Crossfield: 556
Floris: 699
Fox Mill: 645
Total: 3979
Fox Mill + Half of floris= 995 or 25% (and less than half of Floris kids go to SLHS)

By the way Crossfield/Oakton is lees than 15% (and the FCPS puts Carson under Oakton boundary).

More than 60% of Carson kids live in Westfield boundary.

Yes. the largest percentage go to Westfield, but not as high as you say.

Some of Coates goes to Herndon Middle. No idea how many, but at least 50, I think
McNair numbers include 136 preschool. So you need to subtract that from Westfield number.
Crossfield number does not include the 51 that go to Navy for AAP. So that number should be 607.
Fox Mill has 29 that go to Oak Hill for AAP. So add that number to South Lakes.


Also, the formula for figuring how many kids go to a school yields fewer in apartments for high school. So, it is unlikely that the apartments feeding to Westfield will yield that many kids.

So, while the largest number goes to Westfield from Carson, I think the other percentages are higher than you suggest--especially when you apply a different yield to the apartments for high school kids.

It was a rough calculation.

But some Crossfield kids go to Hughes. So you should substract that.

Less than half of Floris kids go to SLHS so if you want to be exact, the number should to down.

So my rough calc should be roughly correct. For Carson bounday kids: 25% SLHS, 15% OHS, and 60% Westfield