ECNL moving to school year part 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's missing is what happens when kids first sign up in u-littles will really influence this. If clubs go strictly by AGE at 7v7, who will be objecting if they are on the top team by 9v9 or 11v11? And if the clubs get that family to join age group up (which might be seen/sold as a feather in their cap OR as expected -- see the dude who's all about shame). So, how this plays out over the whole sport will really answer what will happen, knowing they'll also always be edge cases.

For older kids now, there definitely be a bias toward keeping teams/kids together, especially by grade, because all these groups have big incentives not having a lot of disruption (unless the biggest goal is winning).

Probably a bit over a third of HS kids are currently playing off grade now though. Fixing this by getting them to the right age group will be big and will cause a huge domino effect.

The only domino effect will be for clubs who no longer need to have trapped teams/leagues. Not sure it really does much for the kid, except handicap them if they have to be even younger which may negate the positives of being with some classmates -- which if you're doing elite travel doesn't happen. You play with kids from other towns!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There is no good way to do this. There will always be either a month that is trapped, or two, or there will be people who game the system and hold their kids back. My DD is August bday and on grade for this area. Elsewhere in the country she might be a grade behind. But there are multiple girls on her varsity team who are Sept bdays so basically a year older, and even kids on grade with July or August bdays who were held back and are more than a year older. For club, there is no easy way to align. If SY, August has the issue. If GY, the held back kids have a huge advantage. If BY, we have all the fall trapped players. There is no perfect system. If they are strong enough, they can play up. Otherwise tough luck, including for my DD.

There's. multiple ways to address this. The easiest way to address is for SY 8/1-7/31 leagues to implement a rule that states when given the option players must play on the team thats predominately their grade in school. If you do this poof all issues go away. You have a type of modified GY where all players on the field are a specific grade. But holdbacks cant play on teams because they must be born within the eligibility window of 8/1-7/31. (or younger playing "up")

That's GY. Aug can play up. Going to 8-1 solved the problem.

Its not GY its SY with a rule that players must play on a team with players their grade in school. Do this and everyone is happy and all the playing down nonsense goes away.

I like this. It makes s lot of sense.

The only group that probably doesn't like it is the players that are youngest in their grade. But they're screwed either way unless their parents hold them back in school. Which solves the problem and the rule still works. Its like GY but without the holdbacks.

Once you start focusing of grade, it's GY with rules and not seasonal year anymore.

No one does nuance well, here, sadly. There truly is a middle way where a lot of Aug/Sep kids play up to stay with grade. When researching the switch, you can find references to how it was commonly done before -- which also may have caused angst, especially if forced (not clear that it was a hard and fast rule).

This is what people have been arguing about for over a year. If you've been around youth soccer for a while you already know where this will end up. Clubs want commitments so in the end players will be grouped by SY age and grade. Some parents have kids with Aug/Sept birthdays and know if they play with their grade they'll be the youngest. Since this is a site with parents the loudest ones will be screaming to let players play down a grade. Clubs, coaches, and recruiters arent commenting but if they were they'd all prefer that players play with their grade. In the end this is how things will end up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no good way to do this. There will always be either a month that is trapped, or two, or there will be people who game the system and hold their kids back. My DD is August bday and on grade for this area. Elsewhere in the country she might be a grade behind. But there are multiple girls on her varsity team who are Sept bdays so basically a year older, and even kids on grade with July or August bdays who were held back and are more than a year older. For club, there is no easy way to align. If SY, August has the issue. If GY, the held back kids have a huge advantage. If BY, we have all the fall trapped players. There is no perfect system. If they are strong enough, they can play up. Otherwise tough luck, including for my DD.

There's. multiple ways to address this. The easiest way to address is for SY 8/1-7/31 leagues to implement a rule that states when given the option players must play on the team thats predominately their grade in school. If you do this poof all issues go away. You have a type of modified GY where all players on the field are a specific grade. But holdbacks cant play on teams because they must be born within the eligibility window of 8/1-7/31. (or younger playing "up")

That's GY. Aug can play up. Going to 8-1 solved the problem.

Its not GY its SY with a rule that players must play on a team with players their grade in school. Do this and everyone is happy and all the playing down nonsense goes away.

I like this. It makes s lot of sense.

The only group that probably doesn't like it is the players that are youngest in their grade. But they're screwed either way unless their parents hold them back in school. Which solves the problem and the rule still works. Its like GY but without the holdbacks.

Once you start focusing of grade, it's GY with rules and not seasonal year anymore.

GY = Any player a certain grade can play (includes holdbacks)
SY = 8/1-7/31 eligibility window but with a rule that players must play on rhe team thats predominately their grade in school.

Very different and you know it.

They are both grade based, aka GY.

This thinking also doesn't see the difference between SEASONAL and SCHOOL year.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My son’s coach at a large and top Texas ECNL club told me the club is already populating teams for next season in advance of the transition. He said the tricky situation is when an Aug - December kid is doing well on his current team but there may not be enough room for him in the higher level team in his new age category. For example, a good ECRL player that may not be able to move up to ECNL next season. This type of player would just stay on his team next season and would technically be playing up.

I assume the club will have the August - December boys train with teams of different levels in the spring to finish populating teams prior to open try outs in May.

Thats an interesting conundrum but if the good ECRL player Q4 kid still cant make the ECNL team in his new age group, why not play RL in his new age group? Why stay with the RL team a year up? Do we think that is better from a player development perspective?

This is a possibility. But its always been a possibility because nobody has an issue with players playing up.

The more obvious problem situation is Aug birthday players in BY playing with their correct grade. Will these players be forced to play on a grade down SY team?

What about Sept and Oct birthdays?

Could go either way.

If players are older and the team is winning most likely they'll keep everything as is.

If the playera are younger it will be like every season when teams are shuffled after tryouts.

It won't go either way. All players (with rare exceptions just like now) will play in their new age grouping. Just like now. Excepting of course for small-time clubs. All of this talk about about players deciding to play up, or coaches talking about keeping certain players up (or teams up) will all disappear as evals and tryouts roll around. It is just lip service to keep parents calm and from coaches who don't even get to make the decisions.

My daughter’s coach (MVLA) told us they plan on allowing current Aug-Dec players within the club to stay up. However that will be something they determined fully after tryouts.

You say MVLA like that means anything. No one knows what you are talking about.

I think you're lieing but whatever. Their teams are listed as "Mountain View Los Altos Soccer Club" in the ranking app.

Ugh thinks everyone is lying… what a sourpuss.

Whats wrong? One of the top clubs in the country saying that they'll probabaly leave established BY teams alone not aligning with what you thought would happen?

Not PP but I fully expected clubs to mislead existing players and then demoted a bunch after tryouts. And a bunch are going to voluntarily go down to lock in top teams anyway. Existing teams will not exist. That's what it seems from the comment.

You're talking about a top 10 team in the nation at multiple age groups. This is not a B team or Town team. They've spent years recruiting and developing talent. Do you really think they'd just replace trapped players on winning teams with unknowns?

Trapped players going down an age group will be the first move upsetting the apple cart. Then everyone has to jump to maintain positions, playing time, etc. Any ehn clubs have to fill in holes. Existing teams will not exist.

OK it seems like you think you know how things will go.

Watch what actually happens.

Clubs wanted SY, trapped players looking to get on the right recruiting year wanted SY, the leagues wanted SY, many players want to play on grade. The rules are changing so everyone adjusts.

Exactly players clubs and leagues want to play with their grade in school.

But of course many will be forced to play down a grade based on their age and clubs/leagues don't like to have players play up except for the rare exception.

No, clubs will play players with their grade whenever possible. This is because when they get older playing down makes players unrecruitable by college coaches and scouts.

Really kids who are 13 and 14 months younger? Those will be kids on b and c teams.

Maybe, but playing on the B team with players your grade is 100x better for player development than playing on a team a grade down.

This is the wrong take. Being the youngest on the team often means less attention and potentially an earlier exit from playing, even from the B team. If these kids play in their AGE group, they'd be the oldest and perhaps get the attention and play at a level where they can thrive and have confidence. That's why -- if given a choice -- parents will opt for the age group.

Nobody wants your older B team player on their younger A team. Play with your grade or go away.

Except the coach and club and the whole team. You see a lost spot. They might see a player who helps them win and become better because all those players train with that player.

This is a littles parent attitude.

Once you get to HS everyone fights fot position and recruiting. Nobody wants a grade older unrecruitable player on their team stealing minutes from those that matter.

There is no such thing as an unrecruitable player. There are red flags that may cause college coaches to pass on a player… a big one is completely crazy parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's missing is what happens when kids first sign up in u-littles will really influence this. If clubs go strictly by AGE at 7v7, who will be objecting if they are on the top team by 9v9 or 11v11? And if the clubs get that family to join age group up (which might be seen/sold as a feather in their cap OR as expected -- see the dude who's all about shame). So, how this plays out over the whole sport will really answer what will happen, knowing they'll also always be edge cases.

For older kids now, there definitely be a bias toward keeping teams/kids together, especially by grade, because all these groups have big incentives not having a lot of disruption (unless the biggest goal is winning).

Probably a bit over a third of HS kids are currently playing off grade now though. Fixing this by getting them to the right age group will be big and will cause a huge domino effect.

Except being on a team where you're 13 or 14 or 15 months younger (because of grade) isn't necessarily the RIGHT age group. Savvy parents in this situation should have their kid play on AGE and then skip up a grade -- if they develop as a star player -- when they reach 11v11. Best of both worlds.

The "savvy" parent in that situation would hold their kid back so they're not screwed when it comes to recruiting. Or they'd keep their kid on a team with their grade and grind through it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no good way to do this. There will always be either a month that is trapped, or two, or there will be people who game the system and hold their kids back. My DD is August bday and on grade for this area. Elsewhere in the country she might be a grade behind. But there are multiple girls on her varsity team who are Sept bdays so basically a year older, and even kids on grade with July or August bdays who were held back and are more than a year older. For club, there is no easy way to align. If SY, August has the issue. If GY, the held back kids have a huge advantage. If BY, we have all the fall trapped players. There is no perfect system. If they are strong enough, they can play up. Otherwise tough luck, including for my DD.

There's. multiple ways to address this. The easiest way to address is for SY 8/1-7/31 leagues to implement a rule that states when given the option players must play on the team thats predominately their grade in school. If you do this poof all issues go away. You have a type of modified GY where all players on the field are a specific grade. But holdbacks cant play on teams because they must be born within the eligibility window of 8/1-7/31. (or younger playing "up")

That's GY. Aug can play up. Going to 8-1 solved the problem.

Its not GY its SY with a rule that players must play on a team with players their grade in school. Do this and everyone is happy and all the playing down nonsense goes away.

I like this. It makes s lot of sense.

The only group that probably doesn't like it is the players that are youngest in their grade. But they're screwed either way unless their parents hold them back in school. Which solves the problem and the rule still works. Its like GY but without the holdbacks.

Once you start focusing of grade, it's GY with rules and not seasonal year anymore.

No one does nuance well, here, sadly. There truly is a middle way where a lot of Aug/Sep kids play up to stay with grade. When researching the switch, you can find references to how it was commonly done before -- which also may have caused angst, especially if forced (not clear that it was a hard and fast rule).

This is what people have been arguing about for over a year. If you've been around youth soccer for a while you already know where this will end up. Clubs want commitments so in the end players will be grouped by SY age and grade. Some parents have kids with Aug/Sept birthdays and know if they play with their grade they'll be the youngest. Since this is a site with parents the loudest ones will be screaming to let players play down a grade. Clubs, coaches, and recruiters arent commenting but if they were they'd all prefer that players play with their grade. In the end this is how things will end up.

Why don't they group by grade now then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My son’s coach at a large and top Texas ECNL club told me the club is already populating teams for next season in advance of the transition. He said the tricky situation is when an Aug - December kid is doing well on his current team but there may not be enough room for him in the higher level team in his new age category. For example, a good ECRL player that may not be able to move up to ECNL next season. This type of player would just stay on his team next season and would technically be playing up.

I assume the club will have the August - December boys train with teams of different levels in the spring to finish populating teams prior to open try outs in May.

Thats an interesting conundrum but if the good ECRL player Q4 kid still cant make the ECNL team in his new age group, why not play RL in his new age group? Why stay with the RL team a year up? Do we think that is better from a player development perspective?

This is a possibility. But its always been a possibility because nobody has an issue with players playing up.

The more obvious problem situation is Aug birthday players in BY playing with their correct grade. Will these players be forced to play on a grade down SY team?

What about Sept and Oct birthdays?

Could go either way.

If players are older and the team is winning most likely they'll keep everything as is.

If the playera are younger it will be like every season when teams are shuffled after tryouts.

It won't go either way. All players (with rare exceptions just like now) will play in their new age grouping. Just like now. Excepting of course for small-time clubs. All of this talk about about players deciding to play up, or coaches talking about keeping certain players up (or teams up) will all disappear as evals and tryouts roll around. It is just lip service to keep parents calm and from coaches who don't even get to make the decisions.

My daughter’s coach (MVLA) told us they plan on allowing current Aug-Dec players within the club to stay up. However that will be something they determined fully after tryouts.

You say MVLA like that means anything. No one knows what you are talking about.

I think you're lieing but whatever. Their teams are listed as "Mountain View Los Altos Soccer Club" in the ranking app.

Ugh thinks everyone is lying… what a sourpuss.

Whats wrong? One of the top clubs in the country saying that they'll probabaly leave established BY teams alone not aligning with what you thought would happen?

Not PP but I fully expected clubs to mislead existing players and then demoted a bunch after tryouts. And a bunch are going to voluntarily go down to lock in top teams anyway. Existing teams will not exist. That's what it seems from the comment.

You're talking about a top 10 team in the nation at multiple age groups. This is not a B team or Town team. They've spent years recruiting and developing talent. Do you really think they'd just replace trapped players on winning teams with unknowns?

Trapped players going down an age group will be the first move upsetting the apple cart. Then everyone has to jump to maintain positions, playing time, etc. Any ehn clubs have to fill in holes. Existing teams will not exist.

OK it seems like you think you know how things will go.

Watch what actually happens.

Clubs wanted SY, trapped players looking to get on the right recruiting year wanted SY, the leagues wanted SY, many players want to play on grade. The rules are changing so everyone adjusts.

Exactly players clubs and leagues want to play with their grade in school.

But of course many will be forced to play down a grade based on their age and clubs/leagues don't like to have players play up except for the rare exception.

No, clubs will play players with their grade whenever possible. This is because when they get older playing down makes players unrecruitable by college coaches and scouts.

Really kids who are 13 and 14 months younger? Those will be kids on b and c teams.

Maybe, but playing on the B team with players your grade is 100x better for player development than playing on a team a grade down.

This is the wrong take. Being the youngest on the team often means less attention and potentially an earlier exit from playing, even from the B team. If these kids play in their AGE group, they'd be the oldest and perhaps get the attention and play at a level where they can thrive and have confidence. That's why -- if given a choice -- parents will opt for the age group.

Nobody wants your older B team player on their younger A team. Play with your grade or go away.

Except the coach and club and the whole team. You see a lost spot. They might see a player who helps them win and become better because all those players train with that player.

This is a littles parent attitude.

Once you get to HS everyone fights fot position and recruiting. Nobody wants a grade older unrecruitable player on their team stealing minutes from those that matter.

There is no such thing as an unrecruitable player. There are red flags that may cause college coaches to pass on a player… a big one is completely crazy parents.

An unrecruitable player is someone that's graduating in X year but playing on a team that competes in Y grade. How would a college coach evaluate a player like that? They might look good but they're also worse than every other player in grade X. If they were any good why wouldn't they play in grade X? See what I mean? Unrecruitable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's missing is what happens when kids first sign up in u-littles will really influence this. If clubs go strictly by AGE at 7v7, who will be objecting if they are on the top team by 9v9 or 11v11? And if the clubs get that family to join age group up (which might be seen/sold as a feather in their cap OR as expected -- see the dude who's all about shame). So, how this plays out over the whole sport will really answer what will happen, knowing they'll also always be edge cases.

For older kids now, there definitely be a bias toward keeping teams/kids together, especially by grade, because all these groups have big incentives not having a lot of disruption (unless the biggest goal is winning).

Probably a bit over a third of HS kids are currently playing off grade now though. Fixing this by getting them to the right age group will be big and will cause a huge domino effect.

Except being on a team where you're 13 or 14 or 15 months younger (because of grade) isn't necessarily the RIGHT age group. Savvy parents in this situation should have their kid play on AGE and then skip up a grade -- if they develop as a star player -- when they reach 11v11. Best of both worlds.

The "savvy" parent in that situation would hold their kid back so they're not screwed when it comes to recruiting. Or they'd keep their kid on a team with their grade and grind through it.

Not everyone thinks about this when the kid is 5 or 6. Also, why grind through it if they are flashy/good enough to play up at the right time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son’s coach at a large and top Texas ECNL club told me the club is already populating teams for next season in advance of the transition. He said the tricky situation is when an Aug - December kid is doing well on his current team but there may not be enough room for him in the higher level team in his new age category. For example, a good ECRL player that may not be able to move up to ECNL next season. This type of player would just stay on his team next season and would technically be playing up.

I assume the club will have the August - December boys train with teams of different levels in the spring to finish populating teams prior to open try outs in May.

Thats an interesting conundrum but if the good ECRL player Q4 kid still cant make the ECNL team in his new age group, why not play RL in his new age group? Why stay with the RL team a year up? Do we think that is better from a player development perspective?

This is a possibility. But its always been a possibility because nobody has an issue with players playing up.

The more obvious problem situation is Aug birthday players in BY playing with their correct grade. Will these players be forced to play on a grade down SY team?

What about Sept and Oct birthdays?

Could go either way.

If players are older and the team is winning most likely they'll keep everything as is.

If the playera are younger it will be like every season when teams are shuffled after tryouts.

It won't go either way. All players (with rare exceptions just like now) will play in their new age grouping. Just like now. Excepting of course for small-time clubs. All of this talk about about players deciding to play up, or coaches talking about keeping certain players up (or teams up) will all disappear as evals and tryouts roll around. It is just lip service to keep parents calm and from coaches who don't even get to make the decisions.

My daughter’s coach (MVLA) told us they plan on allowing current Aug-Dec players within the club to stay up. However that will be something they determined fully after tryouts.

You say MVLA like that means anything. No one knows what you are talking about.

I think you're lieing but whatever. Their teams are listed as "Mountain View Los Altos Soccer Club" in the ranking app.

Ugh thinks everyone is lying… what a sourpuss.

Whats wrong? One of the top clubs in the country saying that they'll probabaly leave established BY teams alone not aligning with what you thought would happen?

Not PP but I fully expected clubs to mislead existing players and then demoted a bunch after tryouts. And a bunch are going to voluntarily go down to lock in top teams anyway. Existing teams will not exist. That's what it seems from the comment.

You're talking about a top 10 team in the nation at multiple age groups. This is not a B team or Town team. They've spent years recruiting and developing talent. Do you really think they'd just replace trapped players on winning teams with unknowns?

Trapped players going down an age group will be the first move upsetting the apple cart. Then everyone has to jump to maintain positions, playing time, etc. Any ehn clubs have to fill in holes. Existing teams will not exist.

OK it seems like you think you know how things will go.

Watch what actually happens.

Clubs wanted SY, trapped players looking to get on the right recruiting year wanted SY, the leagues wanted SY, many players want to play on grade. The rules are changing so everyone adjusts.

Exactly players clubs and leagues want to play with their grade in school.

But of course many will be forced to play down a grade based on their age and clubs/leagues don't like to have players play up except for the rare exception.

No, clubs will play players with their grade whenever possible. This is because when they get older playing down makes players unrecruitable by college coaches and scouts.

Really kids who are 13 and 14 months younger? Those will be kids on b and c teams.

Maybe, but playing on the B team with players your grade is 100x better for player development than playing on a team a grade down.

This is the wrong take. Being the youngest on the team often means less attention and potentially an earlier exit from playing, even from the B team. If these kids play in their AGE group, they'd be the oldest and perhaps get the attention and play at a level where they can thrive and have confidence. That's why -- if given a choice -- parents will opt for the age group.

Nobody wants your older B team player on their younger A team. Play with your grade or go away.

Except the coach and club and the whole team. You see a lost spot. They might see a player who helps them win and become better because all those players train with that player.

This is a littles parent attitude.

Once you get to HS everyone fights fot position and recruiting. Nobody wants a grade older unrecruitable player on their team stealing minutes from those that matter.

There is no such thing as an unrecruitable player. There are red flags that may cause college coaches to pass on a player… a big one is completely crazy parents.

An unrecruitable player is someone that's graduating in X year but playing on a team that competes in Y grade. How would a college coach evaluate a player like that? They might look good but they're also worse than every other player in grade X. If they were any good why wouldn't they play in grade X? See what I mean? Unrecruitable

Except maybe that player is scoring all the goals OR making all the saves and that team is one of the best in the country. It's not hard to figure out. Chances are, also, that player is seen in other recruiting situations with other groups of players. Plenty to evaluate on. I mean, how do these coaches evaluate international players? It's not like they play in any class or grade that's consistent with a domestic recruiting class.

[Anonymous]

Aug/Sept parents don't let anyone try to browbeat you into being the youngest player on a team over grade. Fight for your age group. Your kid might become a college star! Onward! For the trapped players!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no good way to do this. There will always be either a month that is trapped, or two, or there will be people who game the system and hold their kids back. My DD is August bday and on grade for this area. Elsewhere in the country she might be a grade behind. But there are multiple girls on her varsity team who are Sept bdays so basically a year older, and even kids on grade with July or August bdays who were held back and are more than a year older. For club, there is no easy way to align. If SY, August has the issue. If GY, the held back kids have a huge advantage. If BY, we have all the fall trapped players. There is no perfect system. If they are strong enough, they can play up. Otherwise tough luck, including for my DD.

There's. multiple ways to address this. The easiest way to address is for SY 8/1-7/31 leagues to implement a rule that states when given the option players must play on the team thats predominately their grade in school. If you do this poof all issues go away. You have a type of modified GY where all players on the field are a specific grade. But holdbacks cant play on teams because they must be born within the eligibility window of 8/1-7/31. (or younger playing "up")

That's GY. Aug can play up. Going to 8-1 solved the problem.

Its not GY its SY with a rule that players must play on a team with players their grade in school. Do this and everyone is happy and all the playing down nonsense goes away.

I like this. It makes s lot of sense.

The only group that probably doesn't like it is the players that are youngest in their grade. But they're screwed either way unless their parents hold them back in school. Which solves the problem and the rule still works. Its like GY but without the holdbacks.

Once you start focusing of grade, it's GY with rules and not seasonal year anymore.

No one does nuance well, here, sadly. There truly is a middle way where a lot of Aug/Sep kids play up to stay with grade. When researching the switch, you can find references to how it was commonly done before -- which also may have caused angst, especially if forced (not clear that it was a hard and fast rule).

This is what people have been arguing about for over a year. If you've been around youth soccer for a while you already know where this will end up. Clubs want commitments so in the end players will be grouped by SY age and grade. Some parents have kids with Aug/Sept birthdays and know if they play with their grade they'll be the youngest. Since this is a site with parents the loudest ones will be screaming to let players play down a grade. Clubs, coaches, and recruiters arent commenting but if they were they'd all prefer that players play with their grade. In the end this is how things will end up.

Why don't they group by grade now then?

The big issue with traditional GY is parents will hold their kids back in school so they're two years older than everyone else on the team. It's what you see in HS sports a lot.

As long as soccer has an 8/1-7/31 eligibility windown parents cant hold their kids back and play them against younger players. If you add a rule to SY saying players must play on a team which is predominantly their grade in school. It forces players on the younger side of the eligibility window to play with their grade. So in the end leagues get games 100% a certain grade. Which is what recruiters want.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My son’s coach at a large and top Texas ECNL club told me the club is already populating teams for next season in advance of the transition. He said the tricky situation is when an Aug - December kid is doing well on his current team but there may not be enough room for him in the higher level team in his new age category. For example, a good ECRL player that may not be able to move up to ECNL next season. This type of player would just stay on his team next season and would technically be playing up.

I assume the club will have the August - December boys train with teams of different levels in the spring to finish populating teams prior to open try outs in May.

Thats an interesting conundrum but if the good ECRL player Q4 kid still cant make the ECNL team in his new age group, why not play RL in his new age group? Why stay with the RL team a year up? Do we think that is better from a player development perspective?

This is a possibility. But its always been a possibility because nobody has an issue with players playing up.

The more obvious problem situation is Aug birthday players in BY playing with their correct grade. Will these players be forced to play on a grade down SY team?

What about Sept and Oct birthdays?

Could go either way.

If players are older and the team is winning most likely they'll keep everything as is.

If the playera are younger it will be like every season when teams are shuffled after tryouts.

It won't go either way. All players (with rare exceptions just like now) will play in their new age grouping. Just like now. Excepting of course for small-time clubs. All of this talk about about players deciding to play up, or coaches talking about keeping certain players up (or teams up) will all disappear as evals and tryouts roll around. It is just lip service to keep parents calm and from coaches who don't even get to make the decisions.

My daughter’s coach (MVLA) told us they plan on allowing current Aug-Dec players within the club to stay up. However that will be something they determined fully after tryouts.

You say MVLA like that means anything. No one knows what you are talking about.

I think you're lieing but whatever. Their teams are listed as "Mountain View Los Altos Soccer Club" in the ranking app.

Ugh thinks everyone is lying… what a sourpuss.

Whats wrong? One of the top clubs in the country saying that they'll probabaly leave established BY teams alone not aligning with what you thought would happen?

Not PP but I fully expected clubs to mislead existing players and then demoted a bunch after tryouts. And a bunch are going to voluntarily go down to lock in top teams anyway. Existing teams will not exist. That's what it seems from the comment.

You're talking about a top 10 team in the nation at multiple age groups. This is not a B team or Town team. They've spent years recruiting and developing talent. Do you really think they'd just replace trapped players on winning teams with unknowns?

Trapped players going down an age group will be the first move upsetting the apple cart. Then everyone has to jump to maintain positions, playing time, etc. Any ehn clubs have to fill in holes. Existing teams will not exist.

OK it seems like you think you know how things will go.

Watch what actually happens.

Clubs wanted SY, trapped players looking to get on the right recruiting year wanted SY, the leagues wanted SY, many players want to play on grade. The rules are changing so everyone adjusts.

Exactly players clubs and leagues want to play with their grade in school.

But of course many will be forced to play down a grade based on their age and clubs/leagues don't like to have players play up except for the rare exception.

No, clubs will play players with their grade whenever possible. This is because when they get older playing down makes players unrecruitable by college coaches and scouts.

Really kids who are 13 and 14 months younger? Those will be kids on b and c teams.

Maybe, but playing on the B team with players your grade is 100x better for player development than playing on a team a grade down.

This is the wrong take. Being the youngest on the team often means less attention and potentially an earlier exit from playing, even from the B team. If these kids play in their AGE group, they'd be the oldest and perhaps get the attention and play at a level where they can thrive and have confidence. That's why -- if given a choice -- parents will opt for the age group.

Nobody wants your older B team player on their younger A team. Play with your grade or go away.

Except the coach and club and the whole team. You see a lost spot. They might see a player who helps them win and become better because all those players train with that player.

This is a littles parent attitude.

Once you get to HS everyone fights fot position and recruiting. Nobody wants a grade older unrecruitable player on their team stealing minutes from those that matter.

There is no such thing as an unrecruitable player. There are red flags that may cause college coaches to pass on a player… a big one is completely crazy parents.

An unrecruitable player is someone that's graduating in X year but playing on a team that competes in Y grade. How would a college coach evaluate a player like that? They might look good but they're also worse than every other player in grade X. If they were any good why wouldn't they play in grade X? See what I mean? Unrecruitable

So all the trapped kids now can't play in college? Seems a stretch.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My son’s coach at a large and top Texas ECNL club told me the club is already populating teams for next season in advance of the transition. He said the tricky situation is when an Aug - December kid is doing well on his current team but there may not be enough room for him in the higher level team in his new age category. For example, a good ECRL player that may not be able to move up to ECNL next season. This type of player would just stay on his team next season and would technically be playing up.

I assume the club will have the August - December boys train with teams of different levels in the spring to finish populating teams prior to open try outs in May.

Thats an interesting conundrum but if the good ECRL player Q4 kid still cant make the ECNL team in his new age group, why not play RL in his new age group? Why stay with the RL team a year up? Do we think that is better from a player development perspective?

This is a possibility. But its always been a possibility because nobody has an issue with players playing up.

The more obvious problem situation is Aug birthday players in BY playing with their correct grade. Will these players be forced to play on a grade down SY team?

What about Sept and Oct birthdays?

Could go either way.

If players are older and the team is winning most likely they'll keep everything as is.

If the playera are younger it will be like every season when teams are shuffled after tryouts.

It won't go either way. All players (with rare exceptions just like now) will play in their new age grouping. Just like now. Excepting of course for small-time clubs. All of this talk about about players deciding to play up, or coaches talking about keeping certain players up (or teams up) will all disappear as evals and tryouts roll around. It is just lip service to keep parents calm and from coaches who don't even get to make the decisions.

My daughter’s coach (MVLA) told us they plan on allowing current Aug-Dec players within the club to stay up. However that will be something they determined fully after tryouts.

You say MVLA like that means anything. No one knows what you are talking about.

I think you're lieing but whatever. Their teams are listed as "Mountain View Los Altos Soccer Club" in the ranking app.

Ugh thinks everyone is lying… what a sourpuss.

Whats wrong? One of the top clubs in the country saying that they'll probabaly leave established BY teams alone not aligning with what you thought would happen?

Not PP but I fully expected clubs to mislead existing players and then demoted a bunch after tryouts. And a bunch are going to voluntarily go down to lock in top teams anyway. Existing teams will not exist. That's what it seems from the comment.

You're talking about a top 10 team in the nation at multiple age groups. This is not a B team or Town team. They've spent years recruiting and developing talent. Do you really think they'd just replace trapped players on winning teams with unknowns?

Trapped players going down an age group will be the first move upsetting the apple cart. Then everyone has to jump to maintain positions, playing time, etc. Any ehn clubs have to fill in holes. Existing teams will not exist.

OK it seems like you think you know how things will go.

Watch what actually happens.

Clubs wanted SY, trapped players looking to get on the right recruiting year wanted SY, the leagues wanted SY, many players want to play on grade. The rules are changing so everyone adjusts.

Exactly players clubs and leagues want to play with their grade in school.

But of course many will be forced to play down a grade based on their age and clubs/leagues don't like to have players play up except for the rare exception.

No, clubs will play players with their grade whenever possible. This is because when they get older playing down makes players unrecruitable by college coaches and scouts.

Really kids who are 13 and 14 months younger? Those will be kids on b and c teams.

Maybe, but playing on the B team with players your grade is 100x better for player development than playing on a team a grade down.

This is the wrong take. Being the youngest on the team often means less attention and potentially an earlier exit from playing, even from the B team. If these kids play in their AGE group, they'd be the oldest and perhaps get the attention and play at a level where they can thrive and have confidence. That's why -- if given a choice -- parents will opt for the age group.

Nobody wants your older B team player on their younger A team. Play with your grade or go away.

Except the coach and club and the whole team. You see a lost spot. They might see a player who helps them win and become better because all those players train with that player.

This is a littles parent attitude.

Once you get to HS everyone fights fot position and recruiting. Nobody wants a grade older unrecruitable player on their team stealing minutes from those that matter.

There is no such thing as an unrecruitable player. There are red flags that may cause college coaches to pass on a player… a big one is completely crazy parents.

An unrecruitable player is someone that's graduating in X year but playing on a team that competes in Y grade. How would a college coach evaluate a player like that? They might look good but they're also worse than every other player in grade X. If they were any good why wouldn't they play in grade X? See what I mean? Unrecruitable

You’re simply wrong. If you’re not just trolling, spend some time learning about the recruiting process. College coaches watch players several times in multiple environments. Highlight reels, club games, ID events. Most college coaches want the opportunity to work with the athlete at their own ID event before making an offer. They know what they are looking for and what holes in their program they need to fill regardless of the age group.

You insult everyone who doesn’t agree with you as ulittle parents but the way you speak shows you have no experience in the recruiting process.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There is no good way to do this. There will always be either a month that is trapped, or two, or there will be people who game the system and hold their kids back. My DD is August bday and on grade for this area. Elsewhere in the country she might be a grade behind. But there are multiple girls on her varsity team who are Sept bdays so basically a year older, and even kids on grade with July or August bdays who were held back and are more than a year older. For club, there is no easy way to align. If SY, August has the issue. If GY, the held back kids have a huge advantage. If BY, we have all the fall trapped players. There is no perfect system. If they are strong enough, they can play up. Otherwise tough luck, including for my DD.

There's. multiple ways to address this. The easiest way to address is for SY 8/1-7/31 leagues to implement a rule that states when given the option players must play on the team thats predominately their grade in school. If you do this poof all issues go away. You have a type of modified GY where all players on the field are a specific grade. But holdbacks cant play on teams because they must be born within the eligibility window of 8/1-7/31. (or younger playing "up")

That's GY. Aug can play up. Going to 8-1 solved the problem.

Its not GY its SY with a rule that players must play on a team with players their grade in school. Do this and everyone is happy and all the playing down nonsense goes away.

I like this. It makes s lot of sense.

The only group that probably doesn't like it is the players that are youngest in their grade. But they're screwed either way unless their parents hold them back in school. Which solves the problem and the rule still works. Its like GY but without the holdbacks.

Once you start focusing of grade, it's GY with rules and not seasonal year anymore.

No one does nuance well, here, sadly. There truly is a middle way where a lot of Aug/Sep kids play up to stay with grade. When researching the switch, you can find references to how it was commonly done before -- which also may have caused angst, especially if forced (not clear that it was a hard and fast rule).

This is what people have been arguing about for over a year. If you've been around youth soccer for a while you already know where this will end up. Clubs want commitments so in the end players will be grouped by SY age and grade. Some parents have kids with Aug/Sept birthdays and know if they play with their grade they'll be the youngest. Since this is a site with parents the loudest ones will be screaming to let players play down a grade. Clubs, coaches, and recruiters arent commenting but if they were they'd all prefer that players play with their grade. In the end this is how things will end up.

Why don't they group by grade now then?

The big issue with traditional GY is parents will hold their kids back in school so they're two years older than everyone else on the team. It's what you see in HS sports a lot.

As long as soccer has an 8/1-7/31 eligibility windown parents cant hold their kids back and play them against younger players. If you add a rule to SY saying players must play on a team which is predominantly their grade in school. It forces players on the younger side of the eligibility window to play with their grade. So in the end leagues get games 100% a certain grade. Which is what recruiters want.

Why don't they group by grade now then?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My son’s coach at a large and top Texas ECNL club told me the club is already populating teams for next season in advance of the transition. He said the tricky situation is when an Aug - December kid is doing well on his current team but there may not be enough room for him in the higher level team in his new age category. For example, a good ECRL player that may not be able to move up to ECNL next season. This type of player would just stay on his team next season and would technically be playing up.

I assume the club will have the August - December boys train with teams of different levels in the spring to finish populating teams prior to open try outs in May.

Thats an interesting conundrum but if the good ECRL player Q4 kid still cant make the ECNL team in his new age group, why not play RL in his new age group? Why stay with the RL team a year up? Do we think that is better from a player development perspective?

This is a possibility. But its always been a possibility because nobody has an issue with players playing up.

The more obvious problem situation is Aug birthday players in BY playing with their correct grade. Will these players be forced to play on a grade down SY team?

What about Sept and Oct birthdays?

Could go either way.

If players are older and the team is winning most likely they'll keep everything as is.

If the playera are younger it will be like every season when teams are shuffled after tryouts.

It won't go either way. All players (with rare exceptions just like now) will play in their new age grouping. Just like now. Excepting of course for small-time clubs. All of this talk about about players deciding to play up, or coaches talking about keeping certain players up (or teams up) will all disappear as evals and tryouts roll around. It is just lip service to keep parents calm and from coaches who don't even get to make the decisions.

My daughter’s coach (MVLA) told us they plan on allowing current Aug-Dec players within the club to stay up. However that will be something they determined fully after tryouts.

You say MVLA like that means anything. No one knows what you are talking about.

I think you're lieing but whatever. Their teams are listed as "Mountain View Los Altos Soccer Club" in the ranking app.

Ugh thinks everyone is lying… what a sourpuss.

Whats wrong? One of the top clubs in the country saying that they'll probabaly leave established BY teams alone not aligning with what you thought would happen?

Not PP but I fully expected clubs to mislead existing players and then demoted a bunch after tryouts. And a bunch are going to voluntarily go down to lock in top teams anyway. Existing teams will not exist. That's what it seems from the comment.

You're talking about a top 10 team in the nation at multiple age groups. This is not a B team or Town team. They've spent years recruiting and developing talent. Do you really think they'd just replace trapped players on winning teams with unknowns?

Trapped players going down an age group will be the first move upsetting the apple cart. Then everyone has to jump to maintain positions, playing time, etc. Any ehn clubs have to fill in holes. Existing teams will not exist.

OK it seems like you think you know how things will go.

Watch what actually happens.

Clubs wanted SY, trapped players looking to get on the right recruiting year wanted SY, the leagues wanted SY, many players want to play on grade. The rules are changing so everyone adjusts.

Exactly players clubs and leagues want to play with their grade in school.

But of course many will be forced to play down a grade based on their age and clubs/leagues don't like to have players play up except for the rare exception.

No, clubs will play players with their grade whenever possible. This is because when they get older playing down makes players unrecruitable by college coaches and scouts.

Really kids who are 13 and 14 months younger? Those will be kids on b and c teams.

Maybe, but playing on the B team with players your grade is 100x better for player development than playing on a team a grade down.

This is the wrong take. Being the youngest on the team often means less attention and potentially an earlier exit from playing, even from the B team. If these kids play in their AGE group, they'd be the oldest and perhaps get the attention and play at a level where they can thrive and have confidence. That's why -- if given a choice -- parents will opt for the age group.

Nobody wants your older B team player on their younger A team. Play with your grade or go away.

Except the coach and club and the whole team. You see a lost spot. They might see a player who helps them win and become better because all those players train with that player.

This is a littles parent attitude.

Once you get to HS everyone fights fot position and recruiting. Nobody wants a grade older unrecruitable player on their team stealing minutes from those that matter.

There is no such thing as an unrecruitable player. There are red flags that may cause college coaches to pass on a player… a big one is completely crazy parents.

An unrecruitable player is someone that's graduating in X year but playing on a team that competes in Y grade. How would a college coach evaluate a player like that? They might look good but they're also worse than every other player in grade X. If they were any good why wouldn't they play in grade X? See what I mean? Unrecruitable

Except maybe that player is scoring all the goals OR making all the saves and that team is one of the best in the country. It's not hard to figure out. Chances are, also, that player is seen in other recruiting situations with other groups of players. Plenty to evaluate on. I mean, how do these coaches evaluate international players? It's not like they play in any class or grade that's consistent with a domestic recruiting class.

But in that situation you're not the best in the country. Youre the best in the country thats playing down a grade. Which makes you the first in line after all other recruits that are playing with their grade.