War with Iran

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

No one likes war. I also don’t like the wanton terror Islam brings to every nation.

so this is a war on Islam?

Islam has declared war on everyone that isn’t Islamic. We are just showing them that ain’t gonna play.

For those young’uns out there, Iran was pretty Western in the 1970s

Funny how we didn’t have any enemies in the Middle East till 1948.

Maybe they’re declaring war on everyone that’s attacking them.

You forget about WWI? Ottomans fought with the Central Powers.

Not to mention the mess during WWII, Suez crisis, etc.

Hasn’t exactly been a paradigm of peace and tranquility.

The Suez “crisis” was Egypt deciding that it owns its own freaking canal. It’s a “crisis” when western powers can no longer steal from native people I guess. 🤷‍♀️

Your history is a bit rough. And that’s being polite.

Egyptian government had previously sold its shares to Brits. Not to mention that Egypt unilaterally abrogated the treaty re the base at Suez.

In any case, the PP’s claim that ME was a Garden of Eden pre ‘48 is, of course, wholly incorrect.

DP so your premise is post 1948 the ME is a garden of Eden because Israel magically appeared? Right. You need to stop doing your own research. For you to say someone else history is rough is the height of arrogance.

In July 1956, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal Company in retaliation for the U.S. and Britain refusing to fund the Aswan High Dam. Under international law that was legal. Egypt paid financial compensation to the former shareholders of the Universal Suez Canal Company following its nationalization in 1956. A formal settlement was not reached until July 1958 following the Suez Crisis. Egypt fulfilled its final payment obligations by early 1963.

On October 29, 1956, Israel invaded the Sinai Peninsula. Britain and France under the secret Protocol of Sèvres with Israel launched their own military intervention to seize the Canal Zone. Israel, France and Britain did not pay reparations to Egypt.

The U.S. opposed the invasion fearing it would drive Arab nations towards the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union threatened nuclear retaliation against the Israel, France and Britain.

Nice googling and creative editing. Zero percent chance you had any knowledge of Sueze before posting this.

And my premise is simple: the claim that the ME was an idyllic bastion of peace and coexistence prior to 1948 is an absurd fantasy that bears no relation whatsoever to reality.

Moreover the attendant myth that the ME would be an Edenic paradise but for the twin evils of Israel and the US is equally absurd.

There are myriad causes of ME conflict, ranging from tribalism, sectarian conflict, post-colonial malaise, and yes outside meddling by the US and many others.

The idea that the current situation is solely America’s (or Israel’s) responsibility is extraordinarily simplistic and demonstrably wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

No one likes war. I also don’t like the wanton terror Islam brings to every nation.

so this is a war on Islam?

Islam has declared war on everyone that isn’t Islamic. We are just showing them that ain’t gonna play.

For those young’uns out there, Iran was pretty Western in the 1970s

Funny how we didn’t have any enemies in the Middle East till 1948.

Maybe they’re declaring war on everyone that’s attacking them.

You forget about WWI? Ottomans fought with the Central Powers.

Not to mention the mess during WWII, Suez crisis, etc.

Hasn’t exactly been a paradigm of peace and tranquility.

The Suez “crisis” was Egypt deciding that it owns its own freaking canal. It’s a “crisis” when western powers can no longer steal from native people I guess. 🤷‍♀️

Your history is a bit rough. And that’s being polite.

Egyptian government had previously sold its shares to Brits. Not to mention that Egypt unilaterally abrogated the treaty re the base at Suez.

In any case, the PP’s claim that ME was a Garden of Eden pre ‘48 is, of course, wholly incorrect.

DP so your premise is post 1948 the ME is a garden of Eden because Israel magically appeared? Right. You need to stop doing your own research. For you to say someone else history is rough is the height of arrogance.

In July 1956, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal Company in retaliation for the U.S. and Britain refusing to fund the Aswan High Dam. Under international law that was legal. Egypt paid financial compensation to the former shareholders of the Universal Suez Canal Company following its nationalization in 1956. A formal settlement was not reached until July 1958 following the Suez Crisis. Egypt fulfilled its final payment obligations by early 1963.

On October 29, 1956, Israel invaded the Sinai Peninsula. Britain and France under the secret Protocol of Sèvres with Israel launched their own military intervention to seize the Canal Zone. Israel, France and Britain did not pay reparations to Egypt.

The U.S. opposed the invasion fearing it would drive Arab nations towards the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union threatened nuclear retaliation against the Israel, France and Britain.

Nice googling and creative editing. Zero percent chance you had any knowledge of Sueze before posting this.

And my premise is simple: the claim that the ME was an idyllic bastion of peace and coexistence prior to 1948 is an absurd fantasy that bears no relation whatsoever to reality.

Moreover the attendant myth that the ME would be an Edenic paradise but for the twin evils of Israel and the US is equally absurd.

There are myriad causes of ME conflict, ranging from tribalism, sectarian conflict, post-colonial malaise, and yes outside meddling by the US and many others.

The idea that the current situation is solely America’s (or Israel’s) responsibility is extraordinarily simplistic and demonstrably wrong.

You’re being transparent. The things you are claiming about the Suez happened in 1956 after 1948 so if anything you’re proving PP’s point.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the Middle East was not involved in WW1 and WW2. In fact, Iran took hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees from Poland when the US and Britain refused. The Middle East was not responsible for slaughtering six million Jews. So why are they being slaughtered? Netanyahu waited 40 years to attack Iran. Is there any reason Israel couldn’t declare war on Germany in 1948 or even 1970 -just two decades after the worst holocaust in human history?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Are we going to start military actions in South Asia?

Don't give them any ideas. This could very easily spread to and then from Baluchistan.

I think Cuba is next.

We are bombing Ecuador

Yes, but unlike all the other countries Trump is bombing, the Ecuadorian President requested US military intervention to get control over the two drug gangs.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

No one likes war. I also don’t like the wanton terror Islam brings to every nation.

so this is a war on Islam?

Islam has declared war on everyone that isn’t Islamic. We are just showing them that ain’t gonna play.

For those young’uns out there, Iran was pretty Western in the 1970s

Funny how we didn’t have any enemies in the Middle East till 1948.

Maybe they’re declaring war on everyone that’s attacking them.

You forget about WWI? Ottomans fought with the Central Powers.

Not to mention the mess during WWII, Suez crisis, etc.

Hasn’t exactly been a paradigm of peace and tranquility.

The Suez “crisis” was Egypt deciding that it owns its own freaking canal. It’s a “crisis” when western powers can no longer steal from native people I guess. 🤷‍♀️

Your history is a bit rough. And that’s being polite.

Egyptian government had previously sold its shares to Brits. Not to mention that Egypt unilaterally abrogated the treaty re the base at Suez.

In any case, the PP’s claim that ME was a Garden of Eden pre ‘48 is, of course, wholly incorrect.

DP so your premise is post 1948 the ME is a garden of Eden because Israel magically appeared? Right. You need to stop doing your own research. For you to say someone else history is rough is the height of arrogance.

In July 1956, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal Company in retaliation for the U.S. and Britain refusing to fund the Aswan High Dam. Under international law that was legal. Egypt paid financial compensation to the former shareholders of the Universal Suez Canal Company following its nationalization in 1956. A formal settlement was not reached until July 1958 following the Suez Crisis. Egypt fulfilled its final payment obligations by early 1963.

On October 29, 1956, Israel invaded the Sinai Peninsula. Britain and France under the secret Protocol of Sèvres with Israel launched their own military intervention to seize the Canal Zone. Israel, France and Britain did not pay reparations to Egypt.

The U.S. opposed the invasion fearing it would drive Arab nations towards the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union threatened nuclear retaliation against the Israel, France and Britain.

Nice googling and creative editing. Zero percent chance you had any knowledge of Sueze before posting this.

And my premise is simple: the claim that the ME was an idyllic bastion of peace and coexistence prior to 1948 is an absurd fantasy that bears no relation whatsoever to reality.

Moreover the attendant myth that the ME would be an Edenic paradise but for the twin evils of Israel and the US is equally absurd.

There are myriad causes of ME conflict, ranging from tribalism, sectarian conflict, post-colonial malaise, and yes outside meddling by the US and many others.

The idea that the current situation is solely America’s (or Israel’s) responsibility is extraordinarily simplistic and demonstrably wrong.

You’re being transparent. The things you are claiming about the Suez happened in 1956 after 1948 so if anything you’re proving PP’s point.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the Middle East was not involved in WW1 and WW2. In fact, Iran took hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees from Poland when the US and Britain refused. The Middle East was not responsible for slaughtering six million Jews. So why are they being slaughtered? Netanyahu waited 40 years to attack Iran. Is there any reason Israel couldn’t declare war on Germany in 1948 or even 1970 -just two decades after the worst holocaust in human history?

You’re wrong. Much of the ME sided with Central Powers in WWI. Palestinian leadership sided with Nazis in WW2. Roots of Suez issue arose in the 19th century.

You apparently don’t have the slightest knowledge of the region’s history or sources of conflict.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Many Iranian Americans like the one above in this thread are actually delusional trump supporters. If YOU hate your government , YOU can go fight to change that, not expect another country to do it for you.

I mean, nice try, but I am the Iranian who posted earlier, and I am very much NOT a Trump supporter and in general despise him to his core. It was right there in my post, which you apparently did not read.

Also, Iranians ARE fighting to change their own government - at least 40,000 of them have died in service of that cause, but they can't do it alone. I know you think their lives are worth less than dirt, but try to be more discreet about it at least. And this is neither here nor there, but do you think Iranians don't serve in the US military? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavon_Hakimzadeh. There are between 500,000 - 1 million Iranians living in America and they have contributed immeasurably to its culture, economy, military, academic institutions, etc etc.

DP. Can you explain what you would like the US government to do for Iranians? You’re obviously very frustrated, but it’s not clear what you want Americans to do to help your people.

Still waiting for an answer, Iranian American pp.

Nothing more than what they've already done. Weaken this regime, force them to make concessions, give reform/change (whatever form that ends up taking) at least a fighting chance. If we end up with a continuation of the regime but in a weakened, more western-friendly form - so be it. That is a positive development in my eyes, and I don't see why it's a negative one in the eyes of so many on this thread that claim to care about America's interests.

Why would it take a more Western form? That's not a logical outcome in any sense.

Why wouldn't it? America has just proven that the Iranian regime is a paper tiger, militarily. They have been utterly humiliated on the world stage. Their anti-Western posturing isn't going to play with the Iranian population anymore (to the extent it ever did).

When 9/11 humiliated America did we suddenly look more favorably on the Arab world? Like this idea seems like total nonsense.

Did most Americans despise their own government and prefer the Arab world prior to 9/11? No? Then this is not a useful comparison.

Yes, yes indeed. Half of America despised the Bush-Cheney government. Hanging chads was still a sore spot. However after 9/11 it wasn't about Bush-Cheney. We rallied against the enemy and for our country.

Speak for yourself! I was on the Mall protesting Bush's intended Iraq invasion with the 6-10M people protesting across the country.

War is almost never the answer. We have learned nothing.

It's more of blind partisanship now, especially when MAGA can't agree if they want war or not, if this is a war, or isn't. SMDH.

Sorry, I should have clarified. Most Americans, maybe not you, banded when we decided to go into Afghanistan in retaliation. I agree that many of us, myself included, were against the Iraqi invasion and that is because the intelligent people knew that Iraq had nothing to do with 911.

Speak for yourself. Hunting bin Laden is not the same as trying to conquer Afghanistan

"We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them" is a famous quote from U.S. President George W. Bush in his address to the nation on September 11, 2001.

I do think many Americans were able to get behind that idea.

Invading Iraq had nothing to do with 9 11 and that fiasco fundamentally broke what little trust there was for gathering up support for wars to be fought by American troops.

It’s also the failure of the 9/11 commission itself. Does anybody believe Khalid sheikh Mohamed was the mastermind and osama is now in the sea? I don’t believe anything the government says. My generation hates the boomers, is tired of Middle East wars, and does not trust the establishment media

Yes and yes.

As for your generation, you have the highest incidence of mental illness and emotional dysfunction in modern history. So forgive the rest of us if we don’t put much credence in your opinions.

Hope you get yourselves sorted out.

The boomers made the world a terrible place. Thankfully, Trump is the last boomer president.

You have a lack of history and an ageist. Pick up a book. If the world was so great pre-1945, there would not have been two world wars, a great depression, Russian Bolshevik wars, the displacement and killing of Palestinian people, American slavery, the annihilation of the native people throughout the Americas, apartheid in South Africa and Botswana, the ravaging of natural resources in the African continents, the mistreatment of the Maori, and so on and so on. Grow the heck up. The world was always a shithole full of people of mental illness like yourself who because you blame others, you would have been one of the people to attack and abuse those less fortunate in any of the previously articulated travesties in history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Out of curiosity where does the figure 40,000 come from? I’ve seen it time and again being thrown around here but any factual, reliable source to confirm this figure?

It comes from Israeli sources.

And we know they lie, not once, but all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Out of curiosity where does the figure 40,000 come from? I’ve seen it time and again being thrown around here but any factual, reliable source to confirm this figure?

I had asked the same, and no one provided supporting info. So, I assume it is all propaganda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

No one likes war. I also don’t like the wanton terror Islam brings to every nation.

so this is a war on Islam?

Islam has declared war on everyone that isn’t Islamic. We are just showing them that ain’t gonna play.

For those young’uns out there, Iran was pretty Western in the 1970s

Funny how we didn’t have any enemies in the Middle East till 1948.

Maybe they’re declaring war on everyone that’s attacking them.

You forget about WWI? Ottomans fought with the Central Powers.

Not to mention the mess during WWII, Suez crisis, etc.

Hasn’t exactly been a paradigm of peace and tranquility.

The Suez “crisis” was Egypt deciding that it owns its own freaking canal. It’s a “crisis” when western powers can no longer steal from native people I guess. 🤷‍♀️

Your history is a bit rough. And that’s being polite.

Egyptian government had previously sold its shares to Brits. Not to mention that Egypt unilaterally abrogated the treaty re the base at Suez.

In any case, the PP’s claim that ME was a Garden of Eden pre ‘48 is, of course, wholly incorrect.

DP so your premise is post 1948 the ME is a garden of Eden because Israel magically appeared? Right. You need to stop doing your own research. For you to say someone else history is rough is the height of arrogance.

In July 1956, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal Company in retaliation for the U.S. and Britain refusing to fund the Aswan High Dam. Under international law that was legal. Egypt paid financial compensation to the former shareholders of the Universal Suez Canal Company following its nationalization in 1956. A formal settlement was not reached until July 1958 following the Suez Crisis. Egypt fulfilled its final payment obligations by early 1963.

On October 29, 1956, Israel invaded the Sinai Peninsula. Britain and France under the secret Protocol of Sèvres with Israel launched their own military intervention to seize the Canal Zone. Israel, France and Britain did not pay reparations to Egypt.

The U.S. opposed the invasion fearing it would drive Arab nations towards the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union threatened nuclear retaliation against the Israel, France and Britain.

Nice googling and creative editing. Zero percent chance you had any knowledge of Sueze before posting this.

And my premise is simple: the claim that the ME was an idyllic bastion of peace and coexistence prior to 1948 is an absurd fantasy that bears no relation whatsoever to reality.

Moreover the attendant myth that the ME would be an Edenic paradise but for the twin evils of Israel and the US is equally absurd.

There are myriad causes of ME conflict, ranging from tribalism, sectarian conflict, post-colonial malaise, and yes outside meddling by the US and many others.

The idea that the current situation is solely America’s (or Israel’s) responsibility is extraordinarily simplistic and demonstrably wrong.

You’re being transparent. The things you are claiming about the Suez happened in 1956 after 1948 so if anything you’re proving PP’s point.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the Middle East was not involved in WW1 and WW2. In fact, Iran took hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees from Poland when the US and Britain refused. The Middle East was not responsible for slaughtering six million Jews. So why are they being slaughtered? Netanyahu waited 40 years to attack Iran. Is there any reason Israel couldn’t declare war on Germany in 1948 or even 1970 -just two decades after the worst holocaust in human history?

You’re wrong. Much of the ME sided with Central Powers in WWI. Palestinian leadership sided with Nazis in WW2. Roots of Suez issue arose in the 19th century.

You apparently don’t have the slightest knowledge of the region’s history or sources of conflict.

Except for that whole Lawrence of Arabia thing.

You apparently don't have the slightest knowledge of the region's history or sources of conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

No one likes war. I also don’t like the wanton terror Islam brings to every nation.

so this is a war on Islam?

Islam has declared war on everyone that isn’t Islamic. We are just showing them that ain’t gonna play.

For those young’uns out there, Iran was pretty Western in the 1970s

Funny how we didn’t have any enemies in the Middle East till 1948.

Maybe they’re declaring war on everyone that’s attacking them.

You forget about WWI? Ottomans fought with the Central Powers.

Not to mention the mess during WWII, Suez crisis, etc.

Hasn’t exactly been a paradigm of peace and tranquility.

The Suez “crisis” was Egypt deciding that it owns its own freaking canal. It’s a “crisis” when western powers can no longer steal from native people I guess. 🤷‍♀️

Your history is a bit rough. And that’s being polite.

Egyptian government had previously sold its shares to Brits. Not to mention that Egypt unilaterally abrogated the treaty re the base at Suez.

In any case, the PP’s claim that ME was a Garden of Eden pre ‘48 is, of course, wholly incorrect.

DP so your premise is post 1948 the ME is a garden of Eden because Israel magically appeared? Right. You need to stop doing your own research. For you to say someone else history is rough is the height of arrogance.

In July 1956, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal Company in retaliation for the U.S. and Britain refusing to fund the Aswan High Dam. Under international law that was legal. Egypt paid financial compensation to the former shareholders of the Universal Suez Canal Company following its nationalization in 1956. A formal settlement was not reached until July 1958 following the Suez Crisis. Egypt fulfilled its final payment obligations by early 1963.

On October 29, 1956, Israel invaded the Sinai Peninsula. Britain and France under the secret Protocol of Sèvres with Israel launched their own military intervention to seize the Canal Zone. Israel, France and Britain did not pay reparations to Egypt.

The U.S. opposed the invasion fearing it would drive Arab nations towards the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union threatened nuclear retaliation against the Israel, France and Britain.

Nice googling and creative editing. Zero percent chance you had any knowledge of Sueze before posting this.

And my premise is simple: the claim that the ME was an idyllic bastion of peace and coexistence prior to 1948 is an absurd fantasy that bears no relation whatsoever to reality.

Moreover the attendant myth that the ME would be an Edenic paradise but for the twin evils of Israel and the US is equally absurd.

There are myriad causes of ME conflict, ranging from tribalism, sectarian conflict, post-colonial malaise, and yes outside meddling by the US and many others.

The idea that the current situation is solely America’s (or Israel’s) responsibility is extraordinarily simplistic and demonstrably wrong.

You’re being transparent. The things you are claiming about the Suez happened in 1956 after 1948 so if anything you’re proving PP’s point.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the Middle East was not involved in WW1 and WW2. In fact, Iran took hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees from Poland when the US and Britain refused. The Middle East was not responsible for slaughtering six million Jews. So why are they being slaughtered? Netanyahu waited 40 years to attack Iran. Is there any reason Israel couldn’t declare war on Germany in 1948 or even 1970 -just two decades after the worst holocaust in human history?

You’re wrong. Much of the ME sided with Central Powers in WWI. Palestinian leadership sided with Nazis in WW2. Roots of Suez issue arose in the 19th century.

You apparently don’t have the slightest knowledge of the region’s history or sources of conflict.

You don’t have the slightest common sense. The Middle East was not the hotbed for WW1 or WW2. European refugees fled to cities like Beirut, Alexandria, Tehran, Jerusalem. Remember?

Who they allied with is of little relevance. There were Zionist Jews who also allied with Hitler/germany because it served a political agenda to increase immigration to Palestine. You forget to mention Palestine was a British protectorate at the time so there were soldiers (Jewish and Palestinian) summoned to fight for the Allies/Brits together.

You also didn’t answer why Israel never avenged Germany but waited 40 years for the US to kill a 86 year old man and a school of little girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Out of curiosity where does the figure 40,000 come from? I’ve seen it time and again being thrown around here but any factual, reliable source to confirm this figure?

It comes from Israeli sources.

Oh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

No one likes war. I also don’t like the wanton terror Islam brings to every nation.

so this is a war on Islam?

Islam has declared war on everyone that isn’t Islamic. We are just showing them that ain’t gonna play.

For those young’uns out there, Iran was pretty Western in the 1970s

Funny how we didn’t have any enemies in the Middle East till 1948.

Maybe they’re declaring war on everyone that’s attacking them.

You forget about WWI? Ottomans fought with the Central Powers.

Not to mention the mess during WWII, Suez crisis, etc.

Hasn’t exactly been a paradigm of peace and tranquility.

The Suez “crisis” was Egypt deciding that it owns its own freaking canal. It’s a “crisis” when western powers can no longer steal from native people I guess. 🤷‍♀️

Your history is a bit rough. And that’s being polite.

Egyptian government had previously sold its shares to Brits. Not to mention that Egypt unilaterally abrogated the treaty re the base at Suez.

In any case, the PP’s claim that ME was a Garden of Eden pre ‘48 is, of course, wholly incorrect.

DP so your premise is post 1948 the ME is a garden of Eden because Israel magically appeared? Right. You need to stop doing your own research. For you to say someone else history is rough is the height of arrogance.

In July 1956, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal Company in retaliation for the U.S. and Britain refusing to fund the Aswan High Dam. Under international law that was legal. Egypt paid financial compensation to the former shareholders of the Universal Suez Canal Company following its nationalization in 1956. A formal settlement was not reached until July 1958 following the Suez Crisis. Egypt fulfilled its final payment obligations by early 1963.

On October 29, 1956, Israel invaded the Sinai Peninsula. Britain and France under the secret Protocol of Sèvres with Israel launched their own military intervention to seize the Canal Zone. Israel, France and Britain did not pay reparations to Egypt.

The U.S. opposed the invasion fearing it would drive Arab nations towards the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union threatened nuclear retaliation against the Israel, France and Britain.

Nice googling and creative editing. Zero percent chance you had any knowledge of Sueze before posting this.

And my premise is simple: the claim that the ME was an idyllic bastion of peace and coexistence prior to 1948 is an absurd fantasy that bears no relation whatsoever to reality.

Moreover the attendant myth that the ME would be an Edenic paradise but for the twin evils of Israel and the US is equally absurd.

There are myriad causes of ME conflict, ranging from tribalism, sectarian conflict, post-colonial malaise, and yes outside meddling by the US and many others.

The idea that the current situation is solely America’s (or Israel’s) responsibility is extraordinarily simplistic and demonstrably wrong.

You’re being transparent. The things you are claiming about the Suez happened in 1956 after 1948 so if anything you’re proving PP’s point.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the Middle East was not involved in WW1 and WW2. In fact, Iran took hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees from Poland when the US and Britain refused. The Middle East was not responsible for slaughtering six million Jews. So why are they being slaughtered? Netanyahu waited 40 years to attack Iran. Is there any reason Israel couldn’t declare war on Germany in 1948 or even 1970 -just two decades after the worst holocaust in human history?

You’re wrong. Much of the ME sided with Central Powers in WWI. Palestinian leadership sided with Nazis in WW2. Roots of Suez issue arose in the 19th century.

You apparently don’t have the slightest knowledge of the region’s history or sources of conflict.

Except for that whole Lawrence of Arabia thing.

You apparently don't have the slightest knowledge of the region's history or sources of conflict.

??? He further demonstrates my point. Brits intervening against the Ottomans because…they sided with the Central Powers in WWI.

Your example illustrates my point. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Iranian Americans like the one above in this thread are actually delusional trump supporters. If YOU hate your government , YOU can go fight to change that, not expect another country to do it for you.

I mean, nice try, but I am the Iranian who posted earlier, and I am very much NOT a Trump supporter and in general despise him to his core. It was right there in my post, which you apparently did not read.

Also, Iranians ARE fighting to change their own government - at least 40,000 of them have died in service of that cause, but they can't do it alone. I know you think their lives are worth less than dirt, but try to be more discreet about it at least. And this is neither here nor there, but do you think Iranians don't serve in the US military? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavon_Hakimzadeh. There are between 500,000 - 1 million Iranians living in America and they have contributed immeasurably to its culture, economy, military, academic institutions, etc etc.

DP. Can you explain what you would like the US government to do for Iranians? You’re obviously very frustrated, but it’s not clear what you want Americans to do to help your people.

Still waiting for an answer, Iranian American pp.

Nothing more than what they've already done. Weaken this regime, force them to make concessions, give reform/change (whatever form that ends up taking) at least a fighting chance. If we end up with a continuation of the regime but in a weakened, more western-friendly form - so be it. That is a positive development in my eyes, and I don't see why it's a negative one in the eyes of so many on this thread that claim to care about America's interests.

I am an American, and I hate how the American Government runs. One immoral, corrupt, shameless person in the presidency has brought America down . Why do you need a Western-friendly regime in Iran?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

No one likes war. I also don’t like the wanton terror Islam brings to every nation.

so this is a war on Islam?

Islam has declared war on everyone that isn’t Islamic. We are just showing them that ain’t gonna play.

For those young’uns out there, Iran was pretty Western in the 1970s

Funny how we didn’t have any enemies in the Middle East till 1948.

Maybe they’re declaring war on everyone that’s attacking them.

You forget about WWI? Ottomans fought with the Central Powers.

Not to mention the mess during WWII, Suez crisis, etc.

Hasn’t exactly been a paradigm of peace and tranquility.

The Suez “crisis” was Egypt deciding that it owns its own freaking canal. It’s a “crisis” when western powers can no longer steal from native people I guess. 🤷‍♀️

Your history is a bit rough. And that’s being polite.

Egyptian government had previously sold its shares to Brits. Not to mention that Egypt unilaterally abrogated the treaty re the base at Suez.

In any case, the PP’s claim that ME was a Garden of Eden pre ‘48 is, of course, wholly incorrect.

DP so your premise is post 1948 the ME is a garden of Eden because Israel magically appeared? Right. You need to stop doing your own research. For you to say someone else history is rough is the height of arrogance.

In July 1956, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal Company in retaliation for the U.S. and Britain refusing to fund the Aswan High Dam. Under international law that was legal. Egypt paid financial compensation to the former shareholders of the Universal Suez Canal Company following its nationalization in 1956. A formal settlement was not reached until July 1958 following the Suez Crisis. Egypt fulfilled its final payment obligations by early 1963.

On October 29, 1956, Israel invaded the Sinai Peninsula. Britain and France under the secret Protocol of Sèvres with Israel launched their own military intervention to seize the Canal Zone. Israel, France and Britain did not pay reparations to Egypt.

The U.S. opposed the invasion fearing it would drive Arab nations towards the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union threatened nuclear retaliation against the Israel, France and Britain.

Nice googling and creative editing. Zero percent chance you had any knowledge of Sueze before posting this.

And my premise is simple: the claim that the ME was an idyllic bastion of peace and coexistence prior to 1948 is an absurd fantasy that bears no relation whatsoever to reality.

Moreover the attendant myth that the ME would be an Edenic paradise but for the twin evils of Israel and the US is equally absurd.

There are myriad causes of ME conflict, ranging from tribalism, sectarian conflict, post-colonial malaise, and yes outside meddling by the US and many others.

The idea that the current situation is solely America’s (or Israel’s) responsibility is extraordinarily simplistic and demonstrably wrong.

You’re being transparent. The things you are claiming about the Suez happened in 1956 after 1948 so if anything you’re proving PP’s point.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the Middle East was not involved in WW1 and WW2. In fact, Iran took hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees from Poland when the US and Britain refused. The Middle East was not responsible for slaughtering six million Jews. So why are they being slaughtered? Netanyahu waited 40 years to attack Iran. Is there any reason Israel couldn’t declare war on Germany in 1948 or even 1970 -just two decades after the worst holocaust in human history?

You’re wrong. Much of the ME sided with Central Powers in WWI. Palestinian leadership sided with Nazis in WW2. Roots of Suez issue arose in the 19th century.

You apparently don’t have the slightest knowledge of the region’s history or sources of conflict.

You don’t have the slightest common sense. The Middle East was not the hotbed for WW1 or WW2. European refugees fled to cities like Beirut, Alexandria, Tehran, Jerusalem. Remember?

Who they allied with is of little relevance. There were Zionist Jews who also allied with Hitler/germany because it served a political agenda to increase immigration to Palestine. You forget to mention Palestine was a British protectorate at the time so there were soldiers (Jewish and Palestinian) summoned to fight for the Allies/Brits together.

You also didn’t answer why Israel never avenged Germany but waited 40 years for the US to kill a 86 year old man and a school of little girls.

Gee, I wonder what your agenda might be???

So funny. Arguing that the Ottoman Empire’s alliance in WWI didn’t profoundly impact the region’s subsequent history is just silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Iranian Americans like the one above in this thread are actually delusional trump supporters. If YOU hate your government , YOU can go fight to change that, not expect another country to do it for you.

I mean, nice try, but I am the Iranian who posted earlier, and I am very much NOT a Trump supporter and in general despise him to his core. It was right there in my post, which you apparently did not read.

Also, Iranians ARE fighting to change their own government - at least 40,000 of them have died in service of that cause, but they can't do it alone. I know you think their lives are worth less than dirt, but try to be more discreet about it at least. And this is neither here nor there, but do you think Iranians don't serve in the US military? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavon_Hakimzadeh. There are between 500,000 - 1 million Iranians living in America and they have contributed immeasurably to its culture, economy, military, academic institutions, etc etc.

DP. Can you explain what you would like the US government to do for Iranians? You’re obviously very frustrated, but it’s not clear what you want Americans to do to help your people.

Still waiting for an answer, Iranian American pp.

Nothing more than what they've already done. Weaken this regime, force them to make concessions, give reform/change (whatever form that ends up taking) at least a fighting chance. If we end up with a continuation of the regime but in a weakened, more western-friendly form - so be it. That is a positive development in my eyes, and I don't see why it's a negative one in the eyes of so many on this thread that claim to care about America's interests.

Why exactly does it have to be western freindly? Are you looking for validation?

The average Iranian in Iran wants improved relations (and especially trade) with the West. Their economy is in absolute shambles due to the corruption of this regime, and its anti-western stance has done absolutely nothing but immiserate the Iranian people.

The American economy is in an absolute shambles now... so the governance is not worth emulating!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

No one likes war. I also don’t like the wanton terror Islam brings to every nation.

so this is a war on Islam?

Islam has declared war on everyone that isn’t Islamic. We are just showing them that ain’t gonna play.

For those young’uns out there, Iran was pretty Western in the 1970s

Funny how we didn’t have any enemies in the Middle East till 1948.

Maybe they’re declaring war on everyone that’s attacking them.

You forget about WWI? Ottomans fought with the Central Powers.

Not to mention the mess during WWII, Suez crisis, etc.

Hasn’t exactly been a paradigm of peace and tranquility.

The Suez “crisis” was Egypt deciding that it owns its own freaking canal. It’s a “crisis” when western powers can no longer steal from native people I guess. 🤷‍♀️

Your history is a bit rough. And that’s being polite.

Egyptian government had previously sold its shares to Brits. Not to mention that Egypt unilaterally abrogated the treaty re the base at Suez.

In any case, the PP’s claim that ME was a Garden of Eden pre ‘48 is, of course, wholly incorrect.

DP so your premise is post 1948 the ME is a garden of Eden because Israel magically appeared? Right. You need to stop doing your own research. For you to say someone else history is rough is the height of arrogance.

In July 1956, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal Company in retaliation for the U.S. and Britain refusing to fund the Aswan High Dam. Under international law that was legal. Egypt paid financial compensation to the former shareholders of the Universal Suez Canal Company following its nationalization in 1956. A formal settlement was not reached until July 1958 following the Suez Crisis. Egypt fulfilled its final payment obligations by early 1963.

On October 29, 1956, Israel invaded the Sinai Peninsula. Britain and France under the secret Protocol of Sèvres with Israel launched their own military intervention to seize the Canal Zone. Israel, France and Britain did not pay reparations to Egypt.

The U.S. opposed the invasion fearing it would drive Arab nations towards the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union threatened nuclear retaliation against the Israel, France and Britain.

Nice googling and creative editing. Zero percent chance you had any knowledge of Sueze before posting this.

And my premise is simple: the claim that the ME was an idyllic bastion of peace and coexistence prior to 1948 is an absurd fantasy that bears no relation whatsoever to reality.

Moreover the attendant myth that the ME would be an Edenic paradise but for the twin evils of Israel and the US is equally absurd.

There are myriad causes of ME conflict, ranging from tribalism, sectarian conflict, post-colonial malaise, and yes outside meddling by the US and many others.

The idea that the current situation is solely America’s (or Israel’s) responsibility is extraordinarily simplistic and demonstrably wrong.

You’re being transparent. The things you are claiming about the Suez happened in 1956 after 1948 so if anything you’re proving PP’s point.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the Middle East was not involved in WW1 and WW2. In fact, Iran took hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees from Poland when the US and Britain refused. The Middle East was not responsible for slaughtering six million Jews. So why are they being slaughtered? Netanyahu waited 40 years to attack Iran. Is there any reason Israel couldn’t declare war on Germany in 1948 or even 1970 -just two decades after the worst holocaust in human history?

You’re wrong. Much of the ME sided with Central Powers in WWI. Palestinian leadership sided with Nazis in WW2. Roots of Suez issue arose in the 19th century.

You apparently don’t have the slightest knowledge of the region’s history or sources of conflict.

Except for that whole Lawrence of Arabia thing.

You apparently don't have the slightest knowledge of the region's history or sources of conflict.

??? He further demonstrates my point. Brits intervening against the Ottomans because…they sided with the Central Powers in WWI.

Your example illustrates my point. Thank you.

You mean the Arab Revolt, lol.

You really shouldn't pretend to know anything about the region or its history.