Anonymous wrote:The level of antisemitism is astounding here.
I am sure someone will soon post how Jews wrote how they would overtake the world in a Jewish Prague cemetery. They did not; haters wrote them, and people still believed them.
Is Israel overly aggressive now? Maybe. Are Palestinians Hamas fanatics? Maybe.
Yet, many of you sound like total racist trash, regardless of whom you are supporting, Israel or Hamas.
No one supports Hamas!!!!
You can’t even admit Israel has gone WAY PAST any norms and is just bombing it all and killing everyone.
A Now we’re at organ theft. Mutilated corpses. Decayed infants. They are never coming back from this on the world stage
This is an outright lie. It is a disgusting and disgraceful lie. Enough. You can be anti-Israel. Fine, get it. But to pass on these barbaric lies about organ theft. Good Lord - you’re taking a page right out of Blood Libel, FFS.
Decayed infants story is true.
Organ theft has happened in the past. Read the newsweek article cited earlier.
Mutilated corpses and organ theft was accused yesterday in a letter and was reported and the allegations were reported by the Washington Post. There was no comment from Israel at the time the Post published the story. You cannot say it is an outright lie.
PP from above has a good point. These were 80 bodies returned by Israel. What happened to these 80 people while under Israeli custody?
What’s happened to the 107 hostages, including young people and infants, that are still being kept by Hamas and Islamic Jihad?
Nice deflection. This has nothing to do with organ theft. If you listen to the rabid, dehumanizing, anti-Palestinian racism coming from Israel’s leaders, you’ll understand why and how organ theft has happened. If you can steal Palestinian land and lives, why would you not steal Palestinian organs?
Your whole argument is that Jews are just so terribly inherently evil, of course they will steal organs. If you think a person or group is the definition of evil, where evil literally flows from, everything that is bad on earth flows from them.
Where do I say “Jews”? I say “Israel’s leaders.” Your claim is absurd. Please stop throwing up melodramatic smoke screens about Jew hatred in a blatant effort to hide Israel’s repugnant behavior. Israel has admitted to organ theft, especially skin theft, in the past, and it is at least possible it is still doing the same thing. This is not conduct an ethical person would want to support.
This is gross distortion of reports - unsubstantiated and denied by Israel - from almost a decade ago. There is no evidence this is happening now. This rumor has been fueled by unsubstantiated claims from a Hamas-aligned organization.
An ethical person isn’t spreading blood libel-type rumors to fuel hatred against Jews. Enough.
But the former head of the Abu Kabir forensic institute near Tel Aviv, Dr. Yehuda Hiss, acknowledged the practice, so your accusation that people are "spreading blood libel-type rumors to fuel hatred against Jews" is simply histrionic and illogical. Instead of throwing up a smoke screen in an attempt to silence concerns, why not call for an independent investigation to prove or disprove the claims?
"Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.
The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."
Hiss said: "We started to harvest corneas ... whatever was done was highly informal. No permission was asked from the family.""
Jumping to the present ... Yesterday, Israel handed over about 80 corpses to officials in the Gaza Strip without any explanation of where they came from. Gaza authorities are saying there are signs of organ theft and have called for an independent international investigation. They are also saying there have been previous incidents since October 7 of corpses missing organs and exhumed corpses. They say Israelis dug up a mass grave and confiscated bodies and that the IDF confiscated dozens of corpses from two hospitals in Gaza.
Given Israel's history and the current information, the concerns are very reasonable. I'm sure we'd all welcome an independent investigation to clear up the matter one way or the other.
Can you tell me which organ can be harvested and TRANSPLANTED from a decaying body?
Organs must usually be harvested and transplanted within hours, although some harvested organs are used in academia for dissection. It appears organs were missing from some of the approximately 80 bodies returned to Gaza. If the organs were harvested, it is likely they were taken from people who had died very recently. Some of the returned bodies were decomposing, so they may have been left to rot after their organs were taken. Corpses confiscated from hospitals in Gaza may have recently died, possibly in the hospital. Bodies that were exhumed from mass graves are less likely to have viable organs, but that depends on how recently they died.
There are non-trivial concerns about illegal organ harvesting. Why not encourage an independent investigation that would clear up the matter one way or the other? If the concerns are groundless, everyone is better off having that out in the open. If they are valid, we need to know that too.
You have to harvest within 60 minutes of circulation cessation. Which is impossible from a. buried body. You have to remove the organs under sterile conditions. No one is going to use an organ from let’s say a victim of an air strike because of the concerns about the integrity of such organ. Stop your nonsense. You are not making any sense. I doubt that organs were missing .One hand you all are saying that Gazan medical infrastructure is gone, on the hand you are saying that they have a team of pathologists examine bodies for missing organs? WTF? Why would they need organs that cannot be transplanted? You seriously believe that Israeli anatomy labs lack organs for dissection so they have to take it from dead Palestinian militants? Israel has a robust LIVE organ transplantation matching program from which Palestinians themselves have benefited from. 80 bodies were returned in accordance with the international law. Unlike your Hamas friends, Israel does not keep the bodies of enemy combatants, to later exchange them for prisoners . Bodies are examined for explosives. Ukraine has been accusing Russia that it was boobytrapping dead Ukrainian and Russian soldiers. It is a common practice to retrieve the bodies of an enemy combatant and then release it to the other side. Just stop! You are not only propagating a vile accusation and a lie, you are also demonstrating how incredibly uneducated you are .
Not to mention that you can’t just transplant from anyone to anyone. There has to be a match, genetically, virus wise, blood type, etc. It takes hours to match donors, you can’t transplant an organ from a dead person if you don’t know anything about the donor .This thread is off the rails. It is so concerning that these uneducated conspiracy prone fools live among us.
Israel has historically had an unusually low rate of organ donations. It also has the largest skin bank in the world, and cryopreserved skin can be stored for extended periods. Gazan authorities expressed concerns about organ harvesting because vital organs were missing from some of the corpses returned yesterday. A nurse could make that determination very quickly, possibly within minutes. Gaza's medical infrastructure has weakened in large part because of a shortage of fuel, meaning many ventilators and dialysis machines, etc., are out of operation, and a shortage of supplies, like anesthesia products, vaccines, antibiotics, etc. This does not mean no medical personnel are available to examine corpses. Israel has not explained where the corpses came from. This is sufficiently concerning that there should be an investigation. Nobody is making absolute claims, so there is no "conspiracy theory" here. Why are you reacting with hysteria to a common sense request for an independent investigation? If there's a reasonable explanation for the missing organs, let's hear it from a team that has studied this rather than from some partisans who are trying to snow further scrutiny under a frenzy of insults. Chill out, and let's wait for confirmation either way before jumping to conclusions.
A nurse cannot make that determination. A doctor cannot make that determination in minutes. You obviously know nothing about pathology exams to make such a stupid claim.
Ever heard of scans? There are some solar generators in Gaza that could allow a scan machine to run, even if there is no other electricity source. You could see very quickly whether or not a kidney, for example, was missing. I've had a kidney scan, and I could see my kidneys as large as life. Even as a non-expert, it would have been immediately obvious to me if they were missing. The technician who performed the scan would certainly have been able to tell. An ultrasound can almost instantly display a fetus that is a fraction of the size of an adult heart. A nurse could certainly cut open a body (or feel around inside a mutilated body) and determine whether an organ was missing. What you're thinking is that a nurse may not typically sign off on a formal autopsy report. This is a legal/administrative issue, not a practical one. I'd be very disappointed in a nurse who couldn't dissect a body or inspect a mutilated body and not notice, for example, if a liver or heart were missing. These inspections need not be formal hours-long autopsies that study every aspect of the corpse and result in pathology reports. They can be quick investigations under wartime conditions. The point is there are valid concerns about organs missing from corpses. Why are you kicking up such a fuss about this and insisting the Gazan officials were wrong? Gazan officials have requested an independent investigation, which suggests they have some confidence in their claims, and the process sounds like a far more effective way to resolve the controversy than bickering about it on a bulletin board.
everything you wrote is garbage. No one is scanning corpses for missing organs. No one is using CAT scans that are life saving for current Palestinian patients to scan corpses. What did you smoke today? No nurses cannot perform autopsies. A nurse, after taking a year of anatomy and physiology in Montgomery college, will
not be able to tell that something is missing or if it’s missing due to anatomical differences, due to prior surgical removal, or because of the way the person died and the organ was destroyed. A non pathologist physician will also not be able to make that conclusion without a pathologist. I am not kicking up a fuss about Gazan officials, I am telling the conspiracy idiots on this board (you included) that there is no reason to remove the organs as they cannot be used for transplantation. Unless you think the IDF is making ornaments out of those missing organs, it’s a rumor started for idiots like you who believe anything no matter how outlandish and magical it is .
Oh, please. If I had a knife (and a stronger stomach), I could open up a corpse based on a college anatomy class and could tell whether or not the kidneys were missing. A second's glance would tell you if eyes were missing from a corpse. I identified a dog's liver and large intestines after witnessing a tragic accident in which a dog was cut open. I called my vet to see if there was anything we could do, and she validated my identification of the exposed organs based on photographs I sent. Identifying the presence or absence of organs isn't rocket science. Are you seriously claiming that a physician couldn't conclude a body was missing its liver or heart but would need a pathologist to help them? That's just hilarious. Yes, it would take a more in-depth investigation to determine exactly how the organs were removed if they were missing, but a physician should be able to make an educated guess, and it's quite possible that more detailed autopsies were performed. This was a high profile situation, and it almost certainly received expert medical attention. You have no clue whether any of the bodies were scanned or not or what equipment may have been used, so you have no basis for definitively claiming that "no one" scanned the bodies. Neither you nor I know where the bodies came from, and the IDF refused to provide any information, so we have no clue when these people died and whether their organs could be used for transplantation. If you can die in a car accident and then have your organs harvested, why is so difficult for you to understand that you can die in detention and have your organs harvested or fall in battle and have your organs trafficked. According to a 2007 WHO study, 5-10% of organ transplants worldwide are performed illegally, and Israel has a history here.
Given this information, how is it conspiratorial to support an investigation? It seems more conspiratorial to claim without proof that these medical professionals were making this stuff up. Organs may or may not have been harvested (unlike you, I am not making any unqualified claims), but there is reasonable suspicion here. An investigation would shed more light on what happened. You like to use the word "idiot." Don't you think you'd have to be an idiot to make an absolute claim, for either side, in this situation without further information?
You lack the fundamental understanding of physiology so I will not fight you on this since clearing you will be able to comprehend of why opening up a grave and taking a body cannot result in organ transplantation. And don’t get me started on that ridiculous organization you cited led by no other than Patrick Falk. And yes, someone who knows about transplantation, gasp, professionally, the claims that you are making are outlandish. And no, a physician, cannot conclusively determine how, when, or why the organ was removed, unless they were a trained pathologist.
Correct on graves, but we don't know where these other 80 people came from. If they were being held hostage, tested on, meticulously dismantled piece by piece. The IDF wont say where they got these people from, they wont say what happened - they could clear this little "organ theft" issue right up if theyd just literally say where they got these people and what happened.
If there is an organ theft issue, why return the bodies at all? Why not just burn them? Why not just hold them?
The IDF should be able to answer that, why wont they?
Because there is no need to respond outlandish lies and blood libel?
So where did they get these 80 people from??
How is it blood libel? The idf literally turned over 80 dead bodies. Some of them appear to be missing organs. The idf wont say where they are from or who they are. Or what they did to them.
The ate them, obviously. That’s what they did to them. I think you better be concerned with the living, you great organ theft investigator.
Yes, you know those Jews made their Golem eat them!
Are we going to add "questioning where 80 dead bodies came from" as antisemitic now too?
Why not? We have long since passed the point where what someone actually says doesn’t matter; but instead, what apparently matters is what they REALLY mean as intuited by complete strangers with Ph.D.’s in Reading between the Lines from Trump University and its 99 Cent Store satellite campus network.
I went to DCUM to discuss the Gaza War and all I got was this lousy “I’ll tell you what you really mean, you anti-semite!” t-shirt.
You sound like the southern Bommers that I know.
I’m not a racist, but those people….
If the hood fits.
What’s a southern Bommer? Is that a fish species? Totally serious - I don’t know what that is.
However, why? Why must you accuse me of being equivalent to a klansman when I haven’t even said anything about the actual war in my post?
Its bizarre. Don’t you ever tire of pointing the anti-semitism finger at everything that stirs in the night?
Most things that stir in the night ain’t exactly salubrious.
Your self description seems apt indeed.
That’s really weird. You accused someone who you don’t know and who also said nothing directional re: the conflict, of being a racist bigot, and then chalked the justification for that klan accusation up to a weird stew of trigger happy stereotyping.
Super weird. Ironic and weird coming from someone who I’d bet good money squeals over perceived stereotyping. Yeah, I don’t think I could bear to consider how you’d react to actual stereotyping. Yikes.
Wow, your lack of self-awareness is really off the charts. Are you seeing a therapist about these views?
Anonymous wrote:And here we go again with the accusations of antisemitism and support for Hamas. How about addressing the fact that Israel is just indiscriminately killing innocent people?
You seem to forget they did not start this war. Like any other nation in the world, Israel is has the right to respond.
I’m pretty sure they did when they declared a state without inhabitant stakeholders agreeing….
Not quite what happened, unless “they” = the United Nations.
56% of the land, including 70% of the Med coastline and the strategic Gulf of Aqaba, and control over 80% of the fresh water supply in the region … for 31% of the population in the region, 2/3 of whom had immigrated from Eastern Europe in the previous 20 years. So around 10% of the indigenous population was gifted 56% of the land, most of the coastline, and nearly all of the freshwater.
What a plan? Amazing to think it led to such hard feelings amongst the locals!
And very cool that “the locals” responded by trying to annihilate their neighbors.
Those poor, innocent Palestinians! They committed 80 years of nonstop terrorism, all in violation of UN resolution and international law.
But none of that matters to their far left apologists, of course. It’s all Israel’s fault.
Oh, now you hold the U.N. in high regard? Are you sure you want to compare notes on U.N. violations?
Sure. Seeing as I don’t have a horse in this race.
My view: Palestinians started the conflict. Israel has behaved horribly since. Palestinians have been sh*theads throughout.
Is further elaboration really necessary?
There was some history before 10/7. Most of the world understands that. You, apparently, do not. Or your view is that Palestinians should have simply accepted their fate and resigned themselves to continued oppression at the hands of Israel, again a perspective with which most of the world vehemently disagrees.
America is far enough removed geographically from the Middle East, and most of its residents so clueless and poorly educated, that it’s been easy for us to feign ignorance or turn a blind eye to what’s been happening. In fact, that made it easier for Israel and its proxies to have an outsized influence on American politics. But Israel has now overplayed its hand, and Americans are waking up to the atrocities financed by American taxpayers and perpetrated with American weapons. Israel is a global pariah now, and at some point we will cut it loose. Strategically, we risk becoming every bit as ostracized as the murderous thugs their if we continue to green light their every war crime and violation of international law. And the interests of a few million Jews in Israel simply aren’t worth it.
Anonymous wrote:And here we go again with the accusations of antisemitism and support for Hamas. How about addressing the fact that Israel is just indiscriminately killing innocent people?
You seem to forget they did not start this war. Like any other nation in the world, Israel is has the right to respond.
I’m pretty sure they did when they declared a state without inhabitant stakeholders agreeing….
Not quite what happened, unless “they” = the United Nations.
56% of the land, including 70% of the Med coastline and the strategic Gulf of Aqaba, and control over 80% of the fresh water supply in the region … for 31% of the population in the region, 2/3 of whom had immigrated from Eastern Europe in the previous 20 years. So around 10% of the indigenous population was gifted 56% of the land, most of the coastline, and nearly all of the freshwater.
What a plan? Amazing to think it led to such hard feelings amongst the locals!
And very cool that “the locals” responded by trying to annihilate their neighbors.
Those poor, innocent Palestinians! They committed 80 years of nonstop terrorism, all in violation of UN resolution and international law.
But none of that matters to their far left apologists, of course. It’s all Israel’s fault.
Oh, now you hold the U.N. in high regard? Are you sure you want to compare notes on U.N. violations?
Sure. Seeing as I don’t have a horse in this race.
My view: Palestinians started the conflict. Israel has behaved horribly since. Palestinians have been sh*theads throughout.
Is further elaboration really necessary?
I don’t think my essential view is that far removed from yours. I guess the main question I would have is, how did you end up leaning in the direction of placing blame on the side that is actually at risk of annihilation, and has been all along?
Three intellectual reasons and one emotional reason:
1. I believe that Palestinians created and perpetuated the conflict. They could have accepted 181 and had an autonomous and prosperous state. They had decent (not great or even good, but decent) offers since then. They’ve turned them all down and chosen ongoing conflict.
2. I believe that until 25 years ago, Israel was the side “at risk of annihilation”. That’s what Palestinians and many Arab states have been committed to since 1948.
3. I think that Israel has some strategic value to the US. If we have to choose a side, it’s in our interest to side with Israel.
4. Emotional. I remember Palestinians celebrating 9/11. I’ll never ever forget.
Again, all of the above is in the context of also acknowledging that Israel has behaved abominably in many ways.
OK, I agree with much of that, so no point in litigating the smaller differences.
Anonymous wrote:And here we go again with the accusations of antisemitism and support for Hamas. How about addressing the fact that Israel is just indiscriminately killing innocent people?
You seem to forget they did not start this war. Like any other nation in the world, Israel is has the right to respond.
I’m pretty sure they did when they declared a state without inhabitant stakeholders agreeing….
Not quite what happened, unless “they” = the United Nations.
56% of the land, including 70% of the Med coastline and the strategic Gulf of Aqaba, and control over 80% of the fresh water supply in the region … for 31% of the population in the region, 2/3 of whom had immigrated from Eastern Europe in the previous 20 years. So around 10% of the indigenous population was gifted 56% of the land, most of the coastline, and nearly all of the freshwater.
What a plan? Amazing to think it led to such hard feelings amongst the locals!
And very cool that “the locals” responded by trying to annihilate their neighbors.
Those poor, innocent Palestinians! They committed 80 years of nonstop terrorism, all in violation of UN resolution and international law.
But none of that matters to their far left apologists, of course. It’s all Israel’s fault.
Oh, now you hold the U.N. in high regard? Are you sure you want to compare notes on U.N. violations?
Sure. Seeing as I don’t have a horse in this race.
My view: Palestinians started the conflict. Israel has behaved horribly since. Palestinians have been sh*theads throughout.
Is further elaboration really necessary?
I don’t think my essential view is that far removed from yours. I guess the main question I would have is, how did you end up leaning in the direction of placing blame on the side that is actually at risk of annihilation, and has been all along?
Three intellectual reasons and one emotional reason:
1. I believe that Palestinians created and perpetuated the conflict. They could have accepted 181 and had an autonomous and prosperous state. They had decent (not great or even good, but decent) offers since then. They’ve turned them all down and chosen ongoing conflict.
2. I believe that until 25 years ago, Israel was the side “at risk of annihilation”. That’s what Palestinians and many Arab states have been committed to since 1948.
3. I think that Israel has some strategic value to the US. If we have to choose a side, it’s in our interest to side with Israel.
4. Emotional. I remember Palestinians celebrating 9/11. I’ll never ever forget.
Again, all of the above is in the context of also acknowledging that Israel has behaved abominably in many ways.
I am a DP and quibble with intellectual reason #2. Israel has not been at risk of annihilation since 1967 when they became a nuclear power and adopted the Samson doctrine. That’s more than 50 years now.
Israel is now either indiscriminately killing civilians or intentionally targeting women and children. I’d find it very hard to live with myself if I were Jewish and knew that the “Jewish state” stood for little now other than savagery and perpetrating a 21st Century genocide. The shame certainly must be overwhelming for many and more killing by the IDF butchers isn’t going to make it go away.
Anonymous wrote:Israel has limited strategic value to the United States. We prop it up because influential, wealthy Jews throw their money around to get billions of American dollars sent to Israel annually.
At some point it becomes an albatross that both interferes with American relations with other countries and substantially strengthens the hand of Russia and China on the global stage relative to the U.S. It’s also not lost on an increasing number of Americans that we send so much money to Israel, yet Israelis enjoy various social benefits (health care, education) that Americans do not.
Our total foreign aid is $50 billion. Israel gets 3.3 billion. Are you saying that you want the entire $50 billion to stay in the country or you want the $3.3 billion earmarked for Israel to be cancelled? Cause that $3.3 billion so t buying you universal healthcare.
Anonymous wrote:And here we go again with the accusations of antisemitism and support for Hamas. How about addressing the fact that Israel is just indiscriminately killing innocent people?
You seem to forget they did not start this war. Like any other nation in the world, Israel is has the right to respond.
I’m pretty sure they did when they declared a state without inhabitant stakeholders agreeing….
Not quite what happened, unless “they” = the United Nations.
56% of the land, including 70% of the Med coastline and the strategic Gulf of Aqaba, and control over 80% of the fresh water supply in the region … for 31% of the population in the region, 2/3 of whom had immigrated from Eastern Europe in the previous 20 years. So around 10% of the indigenous population was gifted 56% of the land, most of the coastline, and nearly all of the freshwater.
What a plan? Amazing to think it led to such hard feelings amongst the locals!
And very cool that “the locals” responded by trying to annihilate their neighbors.
Those poor, innocent Palestinians! They committed 80 years of nonstop terrorism, all in violation of UN resolution and international law.
But none of that matters to their far left apologists, of course. It’s all Israel’s fault.
Oh, now you hold the U.N. in high regard? Are you sure you want to compare notes on U.N. violations?
Sure. Seeing as I don’t have a horse in this race.
My view: Palestinians started the conflict. Israel has behaved horribly since. Palestinians have been sh*theads throughout.
Is further elaboration really necessary?
I don’t think my essential view is that far removed from yours. I guess the main question I would have is, how did you end up leaning in the direction of placing blame on the side that is actually at risk of annihilation, and has been all along?
Three intellectual reasons and one emotional reason:
1. I believe that Palestinians created and perpetuated the conflict. They could have accepted 181 and had an autonomous and prosperous state. They had decent (not great or even good, but decent) offers since then. They’ve turned them all down and chosen ongoing conflict.
2. I believe that until 25 years ago, Israel was the side “at risk of annihilation”. That’s what Palestinians and many Arab states have been committed to since 1948.
3. I think that Israel has some strategic value to the US. If we have to choose a side, it’s in our interest to side with Israel.
4. Emotional. I remember Palestinians celebrating 9/11. I’ll never ever forget.
Again, all of the above is in the context of also acknowledging that Israel has behaved abominably in many ways.
OK, I agree with much of that, so no point in litigating the smaller differences.
Anonymous wrote:Israel is now either indiscriminately killing civilians or intentionally targeting women and children. I’d find it very hard to live with myself if I were Jewish and knew that the “Jewish state” stood for little now other than savagery and perpetrating a 21st Century genocide. The shame certainly must be overwhelming for many and more killing by the IDF butchers isn’t going to make it go away.
Yes.
It weighs heavy on some of us who acknowledge the war crimes and murders.
Anonymous wrote:And here we go again with the accusations of antisemitism and support for Hamas. How about addressing the fact that Israel is just indiscriminately killing innocent people?
You seem to forget they did not start this war. Like any other nation in the world, Israel is has the right to respond.
I’m pretty sure they did when they declared a state without inhabitant stakeholders agreeing….
Not quite what happened, unless “they” = the United Nations.
56% of the land, including 70% of the Med coastline and the strategic Gulf of Aqaba, and control over 80% of the fresh water supply in the region … for 31% of the population in the region, 2/3 of whom had immigrated from Eastern Europe in the previous 20 years. So around 10% of the indigenous population was gifted 56% of the land, most of the coastline, and nearly all of the freshwater.
What a plan? Amazing to think it led to such hard feelings amongst the locals!
And very cool that “the locals” responded by trying to annihilate their neighbors.
Those poor, innocent Palestinians! They committed 80 years of nonstop terrorism, all in violation of UN resolution and international law.
But none of that matters to their far left apologists, of course. It’s all Israel’s fault.
Oh, now you hold the U.N. in high regard? Are you sure you want to compare notes on U.N. violations?
Sure. Seeing as I don’t have a horse in this race.
My view: Palestinians started the conflict. Israel has behaved horribly since. Palestinians have been sh*theads throughout.
Is further elaboration really necessary?
I don’t think my essential view is that far removed from yours. I guess the main question I would have is, how did you end up leaning in the direction of placing blame on the side that is actually at risk of annihilation, and has been all along?
Three intellectual reasons and one emotional reason:
1. I believe that Palestinians created and perpetuated the conflict. They could have accepted 181 and had an autonomous and prosperous state. They had decent (not great or even good, but decent) offers since then. They’ve turned them all down and chosen ongoing conflict.
2. I believe that until 25 years ago, Israel was the side “at risk of annihilation”. That’s what Palestinians and many Arab states have been committed to since 1948.
3. I think that Israel has some strategic value to the US. If we have to choose a side, it’s in our interest to side with Israel.
4. Emotional. I remember Palestinians celebrating 9/11. I’ll never ever forget.
Again, all of the above is in the context of also acknowledging that Israel has behaved abominably in many ways.
Palestinians didn’t create the conflict. The Palestinians never wanted and even Hamas still doesn’t want to create a Muslim state there. You know why?
Churches, synagogues, and mosques were all side by side from Jerusalem to Nazareth to Gaza.
Jewish people didn’t come there creating a secular state ala the Brits or Turks. They wanted to create a Jewish state and the Christians and Muslims could go beat it.
Anonymous wrote:And here we go again with the accusations of antisemitism and support for Hamas. How about addressing the fact that Israel is just indiscriminately killing innocent people?
You seem to forget they did not start this war. Like any other nation in the world, Israel is has the right to respond.
I’m pretty sure they did when they declared a state without inhabitant stakeholders agreeing….
Not quite what happened, unless “they” = the United Nations.
56% of the land, including 70% of the Med coastline and the strategic Gulf of Aqaba, and control over 80% of the fresh water supply in the region … for 31% of the population in the region, 2/3 of whom had immigrated from Eastern Europe in the previous 20 years. So around 10% of the indigenous population was gifted 56% of the land, most of the coastline, and nearly all of the freshwater.
What a plan? Amazing to think it led to such hard feelings amongst the locals!
And very cool that “the locals” responded by trying to annihilate their neighbors.
Those poor, innocent Palestinians! They committed 80 years of nonstop terrorism, all in violation of UN resolution and international law.
But none of that matters to their far left apologists, of course. It’s all Israel’s fault.
Oh, now you hold the U.N. in high regard? Are you sure you want to compare notes on U.N. violations?
Sure. Seeing as I don’t have a horse in this race.
My view: Palestinians started the conflict. Israel has behaved horribly since. Palestinians have been sh*theads throughout.
Is further elaboration really necessary?
I don’t think my essential view is that far removed from yours. I guess the main question I would have is, how did you end up leaning in the direction of placing blame on the side that is actually at risk of annihilation, and has been all along?
Three intellectual reasons and one emotional reason:
1. I believe that Palestinians created and perpetuated the conflict. They could have accepted 181 and had an autonomous and prosperous state. They had decent (not great or even good, but decent) offers since then. They’ve turned them all down and chosen ongoing conflict.
2. I believe that until 25 years ago, Israel was the side “at risk of annihilation”. That’s what Palestinians and many Arab states have been committed to since 1948.
3. I think that Israel has some strategic value to the US. If we have to choose a side, it’s in our interest to side with Israel.
4. Emotional. I remember Palestinians celebrating 9/11. I’ll never ever forget.
Again, all of the above is in the context of also acknowledging that Israel has behaved abominably in many ways.
Palestinians didn’t create the conflict. The Palestinians never wanted and even Hamas still doesn’t want to create a Muslim state there. You know why?
Churches, synagogues, and mosques were all side by side from Jerusalem to Nazareth to Gaza.
Jewish people didn’t come there creating a secular state ala the Brits or Turks. They wanted to create a Jewish state and the Christians and Muslims could go beat it.
Of course Palestinians created the conflict. They had a binary choice: accept 181 or launch a war.
Anonymous wrote:And here we go again with the accusations of antisemitism and support for Hamas. How about addressing the fact that Israel is just indiscriminately killing innocent people?
You seem to forget they did not start this war. Like any other nation in the world, Israel is has the right to respond.
I’m pretty sure they did when they declared a state without inhabitant stakeholders agreeing….
Not quite what happened, unless “they” = the United Nations.
56% of the land, including 70% of the Med coastline and the strategic Gulf of Aqaba, and control over 80% of the fresh water supply in the region … for 31% of the population in the region, 2/3 of whom had immigrated from Eastern Europe in the previous 20 years. So around 10% of the indigenous population was gifted 56% of the land, most of the coastline, and nearly all of the freshwater.
What a plan? Amazing to think it led to such hard feelings amongst the locals!
And very cool that “the locals” responded by trying to annihilate their neighbors.
Those poor, innocent Palestinians! They committed 80 years of nonstop terrorism, all in violation of UN resolution and international law.
But none of that matters to their far left apologists, of course. It’s all Israel’s fault.
Oh, now you hold the U.N. in high regard? Are you sure you want to compare notes on U.N. violations?
Sure. Seeing as I don’t have a horse in this race.
My view: Palestinians started the conflict. Israel has behaved horribly since. Palestinians have been sh*theads throughout.
Is further elaboration really necessary?
I don’t think my essential view is that far removed from yours. I guess the main question I would have is, how did you end up leaning in the direction of placing blame on the side that is actually at risk of annihilation, and has been all along?
Three intellectual reasons and one emotional reason:
1. I believe that Palestinians created and perpetuated the conflict. They could have accepted 181 and had an autonomous and prosperous state. They had decent (not great or even good, but decent) offers since then. They’ve turned them all down and chosen ongoing conflict.
2. I believe that until 25 years ago, Israel was the side “at risk of annihilation”. That’s what Palestinians and many Arab states have been committed to since 1948.
3. I think that Israel has some strategic value to the US. If we have to choose a side, it’s in our interest to side with Israel.
4. Emotional. I remember Palestinians celebrating 9/11. I’ll never ever forget.
Again, all of the above is in the context of also acknowledging that Israel has behaved abominably in many ways.
Palestinians didn’t create the conflict. The Palestinians never wanted and even Hamas still doesn’t want to create a Muslim state there. You know why?
Churches, synagogues, and mosques were all side by side from Jerusalem to Nazareth to Gaza.
Jewish people didn’t come there creating a secular state ala the Brits or Turks. They wanted to create a Jewish state and the Christians and Muslims could go beat it.
Well, they didn't do a very good job of it. Nearly 30 percent of Israel is Muslim and Christian.
Anonymous wrote:And here we go again with the accusations of antisemitism and support for Hamas. How about addressing the fact that Israel is just indiscriminately killing innocent people?
You seem to forget they did not start this war. Like any other nation in the world, Israel is has the right to respond.
I’m pretty sure they did when they declared a state without inhabitant stakeholders agreeing….
Not quite what happened, unless “they” = the United Nations.
56% of the land, including 70% of the Med coastline and the strategic Gulf of Aqaba, and control over 80% of the fresh water supply in the region … for 31% of the population in the region, 2/3 of whom had immigrated from Eastern Europe in the previous 20 years. So around 10% of the indigenous population was gifted 56% of the land, most of the coastline, and nearly all of the freshwater.
What a plan? Amazing to think it led to such hard feelings amongst the locals!
And very cool that “the locals” responded by trying to annihilate their neighbors.
Those poor, innocent Palestinians! They committed 80 years of nonstop terrorism, all in violation of UN resolution and international law.
But none of that matters to their far left apologists, of course. It’s all Israel’s fault.
Israel didn’t do 80 years of nonstop terrorism? Not just in Palestinian land but also in the refugee camps in Lebanon and now in Gaza. Kicking people that are already down.
Israels 10/7 came after 80 years-the biggest since the Holocaust. Palestinians nonstop terror was not nonstop. Israel wouldn’t have been the safest country on earth and one of the biggest tourist spots if it were nonstop terror . Unfortunately Israel has sealed its fate so that the kids of this current war may bring nonstop terror in the future and by that time the US will be led by the younger more pro Palestine generation.
Israel will be shit out of luck if it continues the way it is now. Netanyahu is the biggest threat to Israel first and foremost. Get rid of him then Israel can put both feet together firmly and think about getting rid of Hamas in all the countries they fester in (Qatar, Syria, Turkey, Lebanon). It’s going to take relationships with their neighbors, a restored relationship with the US , and a huge spying campaign and recording wealthy Hamas’ leaders dalliances and comments not caring about Palestinians dying and broadcasting it. Letting the Palestinians turn on Hamas should’ve been Israel’s media game instead of creating the stupid lies they made . I, an average layperson, can see all the mistakes and all roads lead to Bibi. He is the sugar daddy for Hamas. Cut off the head of the snake then you can deal with its poison. Sheep are scared all their life of the wolf but in the end it’s the shepherd who sends them to the slaughter.
Anonymous wrote:Israel has limited strategic value to the United States. We prop it up because influential, wealthy Jews throw their money around to get billions of American dollars sent to Israel annually.
At some point it becomes an albatross that both interferes with American relations with other countries and substantially strengthens the hand of Russia and China on the global stage relative to the U.S. It’s also not lost on an increasing number of Americans that we send so much money to Israel, yet Israelis enjoy various social benefits (health care, education) that Americans do not.
Our total foreign aid is $50 billion. Israel gets 3.3 billion. Are you saying that you want the entire $50 billion to stay in the country or you want the $3.3 billion earmarked for Israel to be cancelled? Cause that $3.3 billion so t buying you universal healthcare.
That’s just for military aid. You forget economic aid, humanitarian aid. Yes Israel even has the humor to ask for humanitarian aid to give to Palestinians .
How stupid are we that we give them it too. Then give Gazans because we know the humanitarian aid money is not going to go for humanitarian aid.
Anonymous wrote:Has this organ theft conspiracy theory been indulged here for the last few hours while I was away? Seriously?
Humanity is doomed because too many of us are clearly just too bleeping stoooopid to survive.
Organ theft is a huge practice in Israel. It’s not a conspiracy I remember a bust in New Jersey a few years ago involving rabbis and organ trafficking.
OMFG. DCUM is now hosting blood libels. Nice place you have here, Jeff.
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