Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again - NO ONE IS PRO-HAMAS. Stop using that strawman to shut down discussion.

If you're making demands of Israel that you don't make of Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Hamas isn't directly leeching off my tax dollars the way Israel is. If we're forced to prop up Israel financially, we have some say in how it spends our money and how it behaves.

Hamas indirectly leeches off our tax dollars because Netanyahu has been propping it up for years.

This means our tax dollars are used to support two terrorist organizations -- Israel AND Hamas.

you care more about your tax dollars (or the long term goal of seeing Israel wither on the vine and die w/o U.S. support) than actually helping the people in Gaza--you focus on the former instead of calling for immediate solutions (Hamas surrendering) that would help the people in a flash of an eye.

How would Hamas's surrender help Palestinians in the long term? Would it stop settler thugs in the West Bank from perpetrating their KKK-style predations on Palestinian homes and land? Wouldn't it just encourage Israel to continue dehumanizing Palestinians?

Of course, I want my tax dollars spent ethically. Israel, in its current incarnation, needs to die on the vine. It's an apartheid state that is currently butchering thousands of children. I don't see why I need to help fund such evil.

You are a cosseted person with the luxury of having opinions that entire nations should cease to exist.

You are a cosseted person who can support terrorists and zealots because you assume they'll never come anywhere near you.

You have an inflated opinion about how your "tax dollars" entitle you to influence other nations. For all your talk about Israel being full of "colonizers" you are the worst kind of armchair imperialist.

What is your view about how much of an opinion Americans are entitled to have about how their tax dollars are spent? Since you seem to draw the limit sometime before “posting on an internet politics discussion board” you clearly don’t have a very expansive view of the first amendment.

As we still live in a free nation you are free to have as many ill-considered opinions as you please. But when you start yelling like an irate first class passenger who's been denied a seat in the airport lounge about your tax dollars, I am free to laugh at you and your arrogant assumptions that paying American taxes should give your foreign policy ideas some weight.

Again, you're the worst kind of armchair imperialist. That's my opinion.

That’s a perfectly valid opinion.

The thing about a free nation is that we hold elections. One candidate is polling extremely poorly among groups that are absolute must-win in states that are absolute must-wins because of this issue.

It may well seem entitled to you that voters expect their opinions to carry weight, but if reporting is to be believed it’s causing real heartache among democratic strategists in Michigan right now.

Then they are morons. More like, some GOP strategists in Michigan (or more likely at some centralized location in Virginia), have decided they can push this as another wedge issue to fracture their opposition.

Your tax dollars sure do support Hamas. Have you heard of UNWRA? Your tax dollars finance UNWRA and in turn have financed the very terror tunnels that Hamas built to murder, torture, dismember, rape and kidnap Jews and others. The humanitarian aid that our tax dollars support in Gaza has gone directly to Hamas during this war. Hamas took it from their own people. Hamas shot their own people for trying to take food so they wouldn’t starve. You are very selective in the information you like to parrot, but you unfortunately don’t know the whole story of what goes on in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank. I don’t have the energy to point out your inaccuracies at the moment, but it is entirely obvious that you are parroting Hamas propaganda. If you are against the existence of Israel and antiZionist, you are antisemitic. You can criticize Israel like you criticize any country without being antisemitic. But if you hold Israel to a standard that you hold no other country to, then you are antisemitic.

I've been defending Israel this entire time. I did say I wasn't its greatest fan and that scorched earth wars just win scorched earth... but Israel existing? I'm all for it. I understand why you might be overly sensitive to the topic at a time like this. But don't shoot your own messengers. If Israel were gone, we'd just have more middle east despots who like stoning women to death for exposing their hair in that region.

That being said, yes, Democrats being worried about Michigan sounds to me like a GOP fantasy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again - NO ONE IS PRO-HAMAS. Stop using that strawman to shut down discussion.

If you're making demands of Israel that you don't make of Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Hamas isn't directly leeching off my tax dollars the way Israel is. If we're forced to prop up Israel financially, we have some say in how it spends our money and how it behaves.

Hamas indirectly leeches off our tax dollars because Netanyahu has been propping it up for years.

This means our tax dollars are used to support two terrorist organizations -- Israel AND Hamas.

you care more about your tax dollars (or the long term goal of seeing Israel wither on the vine and die w/o U.S. support) than actually helping the people in Gaza--you focus on the former instead of calling for immediate solutions (Hamas surrendering) that would help the people in a flash of an eye.

How would Hamas's surrender help Palestinians in the long term? Would it stop settler thugs in the West Bank from perpetrating their KKK-style predations on Palestinian homes and land? Wouldn't it just encourage Israel to continue dehumanizing Palestinians?

Of course, I want my tax dollars spent ethically. Israel, in its current incarnation, needs to die on the vine. It's an apartheid state that is currently butchering thousands of children. I don't see why I need to help fund such evil.

You are a cosseted person with the luxury of having opinions that entire nations should cease to exist.

You are a cosseted person who can support terrorists and zealots because you assume they'll never come anywhere near you.

You have an inflated opinion about how your "tax dollars" entitle you to influence other nations. For all your talk about Israel being full of "colonizers" you are the worst kind of armchair imperialist.

What is your view about how much of an opinion Americans are entitled to have about how their tax dollars are spent? Since you seem to draw the limit sometime before “posting on an internet politics discussion board” you clearly don’t have a very expansive view of the first amendment.

As we still live in a free nation you are free to have as many ill-considered opinions as you please. But when you start yelling like an irate first class passenger who's been denied a seat in the airport lounge about your tax dollars, I am free to laugh at you and your arrogant assumptions that paying American taxes should give your foreign policy ideas some weight.

Again, you're the worst kind of armchair imperialist. That's my opinion.

That’s a perfectly valid opinion.

The thing about a free nation is that we hold elections. One candidate is polling extremely poorly among groups that are absolute must-win in states that are absolute must-wins because of this issue.

It may well seem entitled to you that voters expect their opinions to carry weight, but if reporting is to be believed it’s causing real heartache among democratic strategists in Michigan right now.

Then they are morons. More like, some GOP strategists in Michigan (or more likely at some centralized location in Virginia), have decided they can push this as another wedge issue to fracture their opposition.

Your tax dollars sure do support Hamas. Have you heard of UNWRA? Your tax dollars finance UNWRA and in turn have financed the very terror tunnels that Hamas built to murder, torture, dismember, rape and kidnap Jews and others. The humanitarian aid that our tax dollars support in Gaza has gone directly to Hamas during this war. Hamas took it from their own people. Hamas shot their own people for trying to take food so they wouldn’t starve. You are very selective in the information you like to parrot, but you unfortunately don’t know the whole story of what goes on in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank. I don’t have the energy to point out your inaccuracies at the moment, but it is entirely obvious that you are parroting Hamas propaganda. If you are against the existence of Israel and antiZionist, you are antisemitic. You can criticize Israel like you criticize any country without being antisemitic. But if you hold Israel to a standard that you hold no other country to, then you are antisemitic.

You are accusing the United Nations of funding Hamas now. Ok. Let’s assume this is true: the U.S. contribution to UNWRA last year was $344M. Our contribution to Israel was $4.4B.

Even if every single dollar the UN received went to funding terrorism (which is quite a charge and begs the question how they also ran schools and hospitals and paid salaries but ok let’s live in your world). Our support to the UN is peanuts compared to our support for Israel.

Israel isn’t being held to a different standard. People on this thread were against the Saudi bombing of Yemen, passionately supported Ukraine in the face of Russian atrocities. What Israel isn’t being given— and for some reason Israel’s supporters really seem to want— is permission to behave like Russia but for no one to talk about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again - NO ONE IS PRO-HAMAS. Stop using that strawman to shut down discussion.

If you're making demands of Israel that you don't make of Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Hamas isn't directly leeching off my tax dollars the way Israel is. If we're forced to prop up Israel financially, we have some say in how it spends our money and how it behaves.

Hamas indirectly leeches off our tax dollars because Netanyahu has been propping it up for years.

This means our tax dollars are used to support two terrorist organizations -- Israel AND Hamas.

you care more about your tax dollars (or the long term goal of seeing Israel wither on the vine and die w/o U.S. support) than actually helping the people in Gaza--you focus on the former instead of calling for immediate solutions (Hamas surrendering) that would help the people in a flash of an eye.

How would Hamas's surrender help Palestinians in the long term? Would it stop settler thugs in the West Bank from perpetrating their KKK-style predations on Palestinian homes and land? Wouldn't it just encourage Israel to continue dehumanizing Palestinians?

Of course, I want my tax dollars spent ethically. Israel, in its current incarnation, needs to die on the vine. It's an apartheid state that is currently butchering thousands of children. I don't see why I need to help fund such evil.

You are a cosseted person with the luxury of having opinions that entire nations should cease to exist.

You are a cosseted person who can support terrorists and zealots because you assume they'll never come anywhere near you.

You have an inflated opinion about how your "tax dollars" entitle you to influence other nations. For all your talk about Israel being full of "colonizers" you are the worst kind of armchair imperialist.

What is your view about how much of an opinion Americans are entitled to have about how their tax dollars are spent? Since you seem to draw the limit sometime before “posting on an internet politics discussion board” you clearly don’t have a very expansive view of the first amendment.

As we still live in a free nation you are free to have as many ill-considered opinions as you please. But when you start yelling like an irate first class passenger who's been denied a seat in the airport lounge about your tax dollars, I am free to laugh at you and your arrogant assumptions that paying American taxes should give your foreign policy ideas some weight.

Again, you're the worst kind of armchair imperialist. That's my opinion.

That’s a perfectly valid opinion.

The thing about a free nation is that we hold elections. One candidate is polling extremely poorly among groups that are absolute must-win in states that are absolute must-wins because of this issue.

It may well seem entitled to you that voters expect their opinions to carry weight, but if reporting is to be believed it’s causing real heartache among democratic strategists in Michigan right now.

Then they are morons. More like, some GOP strategists in Michigan (or more likely at some centralized location in Virginia), have decided they can push this as another wedge issue to fracture their opposition.

Your tax dollars sure do support Hamas. Have you heard of UNWRA? Your tax dollars finance UNWRA and in turn have financed the very terror tunnels that Hamas built to murder, torture, dismember, rape and kidnap Jews and others. The humanitarian aid that our tax dollars support in Gaza has gone directly to Hamas during this war. Hamas took it from their own people. Hamas shot their own people for trying to take food so they wouldn’t starve. You are very selective in the information you like to parrot, but you unfortunately don’t know the whole story of what goes on in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank. I don’t have the energy to point out your inaccuracies at the moment, but it is entirely obvious that you are parroting Hamas propaganda. If you are against the existence of Israel and antiZionist, you are antisemitic. You can criticize Israel like you criticize any country without being antisemitic. But if you hold Israel to a standard that you hold no other country to, then you are antisemitic.

You are accusing the United Nations of funding Hamas now. Ok. Let’s assume this is true: the U.S. contribution to UNWRA last year was $344M. Our contribution to Israel was $4.4B.

Even if every single dollar the UN received went to funding terrorism (which is quite a charge and begs the question how they also ran schools and hospitals and paid salaries but ok let’s live in your world). Our support to the UN is peanuts compared to our support for Israel.

Israel isn’t being held to a different standard. People on this thread were against the Saudi bombing of Yemen, passionately supported Ukraine in the face of Russian atrocities. What Israel isn’t being given— and for some reason Israel’s supporters really seem to want— is permission to behave like Russia but for no one to talk about it.

Did any one of those threads had 3 parts, 400 pages each?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again - NO ONE IS PRO-HAMAS. Stop using that strawman to shut down discussion.

If you're making demands of Israel that you don't make of Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Hamas isn't directly leeching off my tax dollars the way Israel is. If we're forced to prop up Israel financially, we have some say in how it spends our money and how it behaves.

Hamas indirectly leeches off our tax dollars because Netanyahu has been propping it up for years.

This means our tax dollars are used to support two terrorist organizations -- Israel AND Hamas.

you care more about your tax dollars (or the long term goal of seeing Israel wither on the vine and die w/o U.S. support) than actually helping the people in Gaza--you focus on the former instead of calling for immediate solutions (Hamas surrendering) that would help the people in a flash of an eye.

How would Hamas's surrender help Palestinians in the long term? Would it stop settler thugs in the West Bank from perpetrating their KKK-style predations on Palestinian homes and land? Wouldn't it just encourage Israel to continue dehumanizing Palestinians?

Of course, I want my tax dollars spent ethically. Israel, in its current incarnation, needs to die on the vine. It's an apartheid state that is currently butchering thousands of children. I don't see why I need to help fund such evil.

You are a cosseted person with the luxury of having opinions that entire nations should cease to exist.

You are a cosseted person who can support terrorists and zealots because you assume they'll never come anywhere near you.

You have an inflated opinion about how your "tax dollars" entitle you to influence other nations. For all your talk about Israel being full of "colonizers" you are the worst kind of armchair imperialist.

What is your view about how much of an opinion Americans are entitled to have about how their tax dollars are spent? Since you seem to draw the limit sometime before “posting on an internet politics discussion board” you clearly don’t have a very expansive view of the first amendment.

As we still live in a free nation you are free to have as many ill-considered opinions as you please. But when you start yelling like an irate first class passenger who's been denied a seat in the airport lounge about your tax dollars, I am free to laugh at you and your arrogant assumptions that paying American taxes should give your foreign policy ideas some weight.

Again, you're the worst kind of armchair imperialist. That's my opinion.

Israel is literally the worst strategic partner the U.S. has had in 247 years of existence. They intentionally bombed the USS Liberty, killing over 30 sailors and injuring another 170+; engaged spies like Pollard to set the work of the NSA back by 10 - 15 years; and manufactured false evidence of WMDs, and actively deceived the U.S. into implicating Iraq for involvement in the events of 9/11, treachery which lead to thousands of dead U.S. servicemen and women, hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis, and over $750B in U.S. funding wasted in that godforsaken desert of the Middle East.

Israel's defenders are anti-American. Now that they have argued for criminal prosecution of those who criticize the IDF's actions in Gaza, they should face treason charges in that same venue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again - NO ONE IS PRO-HAMAS. Stop using that strawman to shut down discussion.

If you're making demands of Israel that you don't make of Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Hamas isn't directly leeching off my tax dollars the way Israel is. If we're forced to prop up Israel financially, we have some say in how it spends our money and how it behaves.

Hamas indirectly leeches off our tax dollars because Netanyahu has been propping it up for years.

This means our tax dollars are used to support two terrorist organizations -- Israel AND Hamas.

you care more about your tax dollars (or the long term goal of seeing Israel wither on the vine and die w/o U.S. support) than actually helping the people in Gaza--you focus on the former instead of calling for immediate solutions (Hamas surrendering) that would help the people in a flash of an eye.

How would Hamas's surrender help Palestinians in the long term? Would it stop settler thugs in the West Bank from perpetrating their KKK-style predations on Palestinian homes and land? Wouldn't it just encourage Israel to continue dehumanizing Palestinians?

Of course, I want my tax dollars spent ethically. Israel, in its current incarnation, needs to die on the vine. It's an apartheid state that is currently butchering thousands of children. I don't see why I need to help fund such evil.

You are a cosseted person with the luxury of having opinions that entire nations should cease to exist.

You are a cosseted person who can support terrorists and zealots because you assume they'll never come anywhere near you.

You have an inflated opinion about how your "tax dollars" entitle you to influence other nations. For all your talk about Israel being full of "colonizers" you are the worst kind of armchair imperialist.

What is your view about how much of an opinion Americans are entitled to have about how their tax dollars are spent? Since you seem to draw the limit sometime before “posting on an internet politics discussion board” you clearly don’t have a very expansive view of the first amendment.

As we still live in a free nation you are free to have as many ill-considered opinions as you please. But when you start yelling like an irate first class passenger who's been denied a seat in the airport lounge about your tax dollars, I am free to laugh at you and your arrogant assumptions that paying American taxes should give your foreign policy ideas some weight.

Again, you're the worst kind of armchair imperialist. That's my opinion.

That’s a perfectly valid opinion.

The thing about a free nation is that we hold elections. One candidate is polling extremely poorly among groups that are absolute must-win in states that are absolute must-wins because of this issue.

It may well seem entitled to you that voters expect their opinions to carry weight, but if reporting is to be believed it’s causing real heartache among democratic strategists in Michigan right now.

Then they are morons. More like, some GOP strategists in Michigan (or more likely at some centralized location in Virginia), have decided they can push this as another wedge issue to fracture their opposition.

Your tax dollars sure do support Hamas. Have you heard of UNWRA? Your tax dollars finance UNWRA and in turn have financed the very terror tunnels that Hamas built to murder, torture, dismember, rape and kidnap Jews and others. The humanitarian aid that our tax dollars support in Gaza has gone directly to Hamas during this war. Hamas took it from their own people. Hamas shot their own people for trying to take food so they wouldn’t starve. You are very selective in the information you like to parrot, but you unfortunately don’t know the whole story of what goes on in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank. I don’t have the energy to point out your inaccuracies at the moment, but it is entirely obvious that you are parroting Hamas propaganda. If you are against the existence of Israel and antiZionist, you are antisemitic. You can criticize Israel like you criticize any country without being antisemitic. But if you hold Israel to a standard that you hold no other country to, then you are antisemitic.

You are accusing the United Nations of funding Hamas now. Ok. Let’s assume this is true: the U.S. contribution to UNWRA last year was $344M. Our contribution to Israel was $4.4B.

Even if every single dollar the UN received went to funding terrorism (which is quite a charge and begs the question how they also ran schools and hospitals and paid salaries but ok let’s live in your world). Our support to the UN is peanuts compared to our support for Israel.

Israel isn’t being held to a different standard. People on this thread were against the Saudi bombing of Yemen, passionately supported Ukraine in the face of Russian atrocities. What Israel isn’t being given— and for some reason Israel’s supporters really seem to want— is permission to behave like Russia but for no one to talk about it.

Did any one of those threads had 3 parts, 400 pages each?

I think the threads in which people are routinely accused of racism when they disagree with one side (the BLM threads come to mind) have that kind of activity. You’d have to ask Jeff.

Russia/Ukraine everyone basically agreed that killing tens of thousands of civilians and targeting civilian infrastructure was just wrong. I imagine they’d be hundreds of pages long if there were posters really passionately arguing that **actually** Russia never targeted civilians and it should be a crime in the U.S. to say that Russian soldiers carried out rape in Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be super clear, the pro-Israel argument here is that all but ten members of the UN General Assembly— representing the overwhelming majority of the population of the world— are all pro-Hamas? Most of Europe, Japan, Australia…all pro-Hamas now?

https://time.com/6452308/us-votes-against-un-gaza-ceasefire-reactions/

What are you going on about? Are you just flooding this thread with vaguely anti-Israel nonsense to bury discussion about Hamas brutality and Palestinians' strategic embrace of terrorist violence?

The current discussion seems to be, any criticism of Israel’s conduct of the war, and the U.S.’ support thereof, is “pro-Hamas”.

So does that mean posters believe the vast majority of countries of the world are now pro-Hamas? Even the ones who supported Israel in October?

If you aren't trying to defeat Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Literally EVERYONE exchanging thoughts here is supportive of defeating Hamas.

The entire essence of the debate is (1) how to go about achieving that goal (either with regard for the human rights of the innocent civilians [the critics of Israel’s actions] or disregard for human life [the ride or die Zionists who want to defend Israel or obliterate the debate if that defense falls flat]), and then (2) marveling at how truly corrupt and unabashed many Zionists can be in defending the actions of the State of Israel, no matter how inhumane and bloodthirsty for revenge (while feigning shock and outrage that any other group could be allowed to resort to actions that are bloodthirsty for revenge).

if the concern was about the immediate safety of the people that would show in the approach taken--you all focusing on the long game of turning Israel into a villian are not showing care for the immediate safety of Gazans
TODAY-Hamas can surreder. Protest in the streets about that. Protest in front of Hamas's leaders. Instead you protest in front of Austin's house to play the long game in a land dispute.

You are spinning this, but the dog just don’t hunt. America has zero control over the decisions Hamas leadership are making right now. You know that. America SHOULD have nearly complete control over the decisions Israel is making right now, considering the nature of our support.

But since the status quo is your fallback position after you exhaust your “more, more, more for Israel!” pleas, you ensure gridlock by pretending that I can influence Hamas, or that the U.S. can influence Hamas. You just say it to cloud the discussion, and it’s frankly pathetic. Do you sincerely think you’re fooling anyone?

I imagine that this rope-a-dope BS worked to bamboozle ppl in the past, but those days are over.

Your strawman has reached the outer limits of absurdity.

Your ability to influence (or lack thereof) is most emphatically not at issue.

But if it were, of course you have the ability to influence Hamas.

All you need to do is support US politicians committed to massive military aid to Israel and a policy of aggressive containment towards Iran.

Trust me: Hamas will feel the influence.

Can we return to regularly scheduled programming now?

The days of outsmarting unsuspecting or sympathetic post-WWII rubes and convincing others to do the costly bidding are over. Go cry victim to someone else. America has been exploited by Israel enough already.

As for the “trust me” part: Wow, that is astounding. I would sooner trust just about anyone else in this world than trust someone who believes what you believe, that the answer to this never ending disaster of a concept (Zionism) is to send even more aid, “massive military aid to Israel”. You are insane. No thanks, check please.

Good grief. The antisemitism …. All these Jews “Outsmarting unsuspecting WWII rubes”? Wow. Is that how you characterize Jews who actually survived the Holocaust?

-If you disagree with IDF killing 22,000 people in retaliation for 1,000 = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing hopsitals = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF indscriminate bombing = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing churches/mosques = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing schools = anitsemite
-If you disagree with IDF illegally using chemical weapons = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF snipers shooting sheltering women in churches = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF murdering surrendering hostages = antisemite
-If you disagree with Israel using collective punishment = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing refugee camps = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF targeting ambulances and medical staff = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF targeting journalists = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing places they instructed palestinians to evacute to = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF murdering surrendering israeli hostages = antisemite

It's so hard to tell which are the terrorists anymore honestly. How is this the most "moral" army in the world?

Way to exaggerate to try to make an obvious point - people are afraid of being labeled as anti-semites, just the same way people were afraid of saying the wrong thing with the BLM movement.

But if you decide that you are super angry and upset about Palestinians dying in Gaza, but weren’t upset about the atrocities of October 7, and you weren’t upset about Palestinians being killed in Syria. . . Don’t you think that might have something to do with anti-semitism? Or perhaps you’ve just been brainwashed by the virtue signaling and liberalistic influencers who always focus on oppressed and oppressors?

I wish people spoke more about Hamas in these arguments. Hamas is the enemy of the Palestinians. Palestinians would have their own state but their government would never agree to a two state solution.

This is literally my point - you can't speak about any of this very long list of sh$t israel is doing without someone calling you an anti-semite. Being against suffering of people doesnt mean you agree with the suffering of other people. Why are you always trying to make this black and white? There is a million shades of grey in the middle of pro-israel/zionist and pro-hamas/anti-semite.

Of course!!! I complain loud and long about the poor Ukrainians. That doesn't make me hate Russians or Orthodox Christians (as many Russians are). I think Putin is a monster and his henchmen are no better, but their being Russian has nothing to do with that. I felt sick about October 7 and am now even more sick about the horrible slaughter going on day after day in Gaza with no relief in sight. It's normal to feel repulsed by massacres, children having limbs amputated without anesthetic, people ill and starving and unable to get help, nearly two million people displaced, people without basic sanitation, innocent civilians being butchered by the hundreds every day, etc., etc. Why on God's green earth is condemning Israel for perpetrating these atrocities considered "antisemitic"?! It's horrible, disgusting behavior, and we should be able to call it out without having random insults thrown at us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be super clear, the pro-Israel argument here is that all but ten members of the UN General Assembly— representing the overwhelming majority of the population of the world— are all pro-Hamas? Most of Europe, Japan, Australia…all pro-Hamas now?

https://time.com/6452308/us-votes-against-un-gaza-ceasefire-reactions/

What are you going on about? Are you just flooding this thread with vaguely anti-Israel nonsense to bury discussion about Hamas brutality and Palestinians' strategic embrace of terrorist violence?

The current discussion seems to be, any criticism of Israel’s conduct of the war, and the U.S.’ support thereof, is “pro-Hamas”.

So does that mean posters believe the vast majority of countries of the world are now pro-Hamas? Even the ones who supported Israel in October?

If you aren't trying to defeat Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Literally EVERYONE exchanging thoughts here is supportive of defeating Hamas.

The entire essence of the debate is (1) how to go about achieving that goal (either with regard for the human rights of the innocent civilians [the critics of Israel’s actions] or disregard for human life [the ride or die Zionists who want to defend Israel or obliterate the debate if that defense falls flat]), and then (2) marveling at how truly corrupt and unabashed many Zionists can be in defending the actions of the State of Israel, no matter how inhumane and bloodthirsty for revenge (while feigning shock and outrage that any other group could be allowed to resort to actions that are bloodthirsty for revenge).

if the concern was about the immediate safety of the people that would show in the approach taken--you all focusing on the long game of turning Israel into a villian are not showing care for the immediate safety of Gazans
TODAY-Hamas can surreder. Protest in the streets about that. Protest in front of Hamas's leaders. Instead you protest in front of Austin's house to play the long game in a land dispute.

You are spinning this, but the dog just don’t hunt. America has zero control over the decisions Hamas leadership are making right now. You know that. America SHOULD have nearly complete control over the decisions Israel is making right now, considering the nature of our support.

But since the status quo is your fallback position after you exhaust your “more, more, more for Israel!” pleas, you ensure gridlock by pretending that I can influence Hamas, or that the U.S. can influence Hamas. You just say it to cloud the discussion, and it’s frankly pathetic. Do you sincerely think you’re fooling anyone?

I imagine that this rope-a-dope BS worked to bamboozle ppl in the past, but those days are over.

Your strawman has reached the outer limits of absurdity.

Your ability to influence (or lack thereof) is most emphatically not at issue.

But if it were, of course you have the ability to influence Hamas.

All you need to do is support US politicians committed to massive military aid to Israel and a policy of aggressive containment towards Iran.

Trust me: Hamas will feel the influence.

Can we return to regularly scheduled programming now?

The days of outsmarting unsuspecting or sympathetic post-WWII rubes and convincing others to do the costly bidding are over. Go cry victim to someone else. America has been exploited by Israel enough already.

As for the “trust me” part: Wow, that is astounding. I would sooner trust just about anyone else in this world than trust someone who believes what you believe, that the answer to this never ending disaster of a concept (Zionism) is to send even more aid, “massive military aid to Israel”. You are insane. No thanks, check please.

Good grief. The antisemitism …. All these Jews “Outsmarting unsuspecting WWII rubes”? Wow. Is that how you characterize Jews who actually survived the Holocaust?

-If you disagree with IDF killing 22,000 people in retaliation for 1,000 = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing hopsitals = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF indscriminate bombing = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing churches/mosques = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing schools = anitsemite
-If you disagree with IDF illegally using chemical weapons = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF snipers shooting sheltering women in churches = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF murdering surrendering hostages = antisemite
-If you disagree with Israel using collective punishment = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing refugee camps = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF targeting ambulances and medical staff = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF targeting journalists = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing places they instructed palestinians to evacute to = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF murdering surrendering israeli hostages = antisemite

It's so hard to tell which are the terrorists anymore honestly. How is this the most "moral" army in the world?

Way to exaggerate to try to make an obvious point - people are afraid of being labeled as anti-semites, just the same way people were afraid of saying the wrong thing with the BLM movement.

But if you decide that you are super angry and upset about Palestinians dying in Gaza, but weren’t upset about the atrocities of October 7, and you weren’t upset about Palestinians being killed in Syria. . . Don’t you think that might have something to do with anti-semitism? Or perhaps you’ve just been brainwashed by the virtue signaling and liberalistic influencers who always focus on oppressed and oppressors?

I wish people spoke more about Hamas in these arguments. Hamas is the enemy of the Palestinians. Palestinians would have their own state but their government would never agree to a two state solution.

Their government was never offered a 2-state solution after the initial resolution.

who cares. No one is going to give Palestine a country like a Christmas present. One, why would anyone do that, and two, where would this country be located? I guess Palestinians can go to war to get one...oh wait! That is what is happening now?

lol the "who cares!" schtick is losing whatever sting you thought it had originally.

it still stands--there are many things going in the world, many problems, so yes, who cares about this land dispute. I would love to take all people like me and live in Grand Cayman, but that is a want, not an imperative that others needs to care about.

Posting ad nauseam on an internet forum is a weird way to show you don't care. I mean you must REALLY not care. Like, you're very anxious to let people know you don't care.

You want americans to not care so much that we will let those who do not have our best interest in mind trick us into doing what harms us.

There is no “us”. There’s just a collection of bozos with a keyboard each.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again - NO ONE IS PRO-HAMAS. Stop using that strawman to shut down discussion.

If you're making demands of Israel that you don't make of Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Hamas isn't directly leeching off my tax dollars the way Israel is. If we're forced to prop up Israel financially, we have some say in how it spends our money and how it behaves.

Hamas indirectly leeches off our tax dollars because Netanyahu has been propping it up for years.

This means our tax dollars are used to support two terrorist organizations -- Israel AND Hamas.

you care more about your tax dollars (or the long term goal of seeing Israel wither on the vine and die w/o U.S. support) than actually helping the people in Gaza--you focus on the former instead of calling for immediate solutions (Hamas surrendering) that would help the people in a flash of an eye.

How would Hamas's surrender help Palestinians in the long term? Would it stop settler thugs in the West Bank from perpetrating their KKK-style predations on Palestinian homes and land? Wouldn't it just encourage Israel to continue dehumanizing Palestinians?

Of course, I want my tax dollars spent ethically. Israel, in its current incarnation, needs to die on the vine. It's an apartheid state that is currently butchering thousands of children. I don't see why I need to help fund such evil.

You are a cosseted person with the luxury of having opinions that entire nations should cease to exist.

You are a cosseted person who can support terrorists and zealots because you assume they'll never come anywhere near you.

You have an inflated opinion about how your "tax dollars" entitle you to influence other nations. For all your talk about Israel being full of "colonizers" you are the worst kind of armchair imperialist.

What is your view about how much of an opinion Americans are entitled to have about how their tax dollars are spent? Since you seem to draw the limit sometime before “posting on an internet politics discussion board” you clearly don’t have a very expansive view of the first amendment.

As we still live in a free nation you are free to have as many ill-considered opinions as you please. But when you start yelling like an irate first class passenger who's been denied a seat in the airport lounge about your tax dollars, I am free to laugh at you and your arrogant assumptions that paying American taxes should give your foreign policy ideas some weight.

Again, you're the worst kind of armchair imperialist. That's my opinion.

That’s a perfectly valid opinion.

The thing about a free nation is that we hold elections. One candidate is polling extremely poorly among groups that are absolute must-win in states that are absolute must-wins because of this issue.

It may well seem entitled to you that voters expect their opinions to carry weight, but if reporting is to be believed it’s causing real heartache among democratic strategists in Michigan right now.

Then they are morons. More like, some GOP strategists in Michigan (or more likely at some centralized location in Virginia), have decided they can push this as another wedge issue to fracture their opposition.

Your tax dollars sure do support Hamas. Have you heard of UNWRA? Your tax dollars finance UNWRA and in turn have financed the very terror tunnels that Hamas built to murder, torture, dismember, rape and kidnap Jews and others. The humanitarian aid that our tax dollars support in Gaza has gone directly to Hamas during this war. Hamas took it from their own people. Hamas shot their own people for trying to take food so they wouldn’t starve. You are very selective in the information you like to parrot, but you unfortunately don’t know the whole story of what goes on in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank. I don’t have the energy to point out your inaccuracies at the moment, but it is entirely obvious that you are parroting Hamas propaganda. If you are against the existence of Israel and antiZionist, you are antisemitic. You can criticize Israel like you criticize any country without being antisemitic. But if you hold Israel to a standard that you hold no other country to, then you are antisemitic.

You are accusing the United Nations of funding Hamas now. Ok. Let’s assume this is true: the U.S. contribution to UNWRA last year was $344M. Our contribution to Israel was $4.4B.

Even if every single dollar the UN received went to funding terrorism (which is quite a charge and begs the question how they also ran schools and hospitals and paid salaries but ok let’s live in your world). Our support to the UN is peanuts compared to our support for Israel.

Israel isn’t being held to a different standard. People on this thread were against the Saudi bombing of Yemen, passionately supported Ukraine in the face of Russian atrocities. What Israel isn’t being given— and for some reason Israel’s supporters really seem to want— is permission to behave like Russia but for no one to talk about it.

Did any one of those threads had 3 parts, 400 pages each?

I think the threads in which people are routinely accused of racism when they disagree with one side (the BLM threads come to mind) have that kind of activity. You’d have to ask Jeff.

Russia/Ukraine everyone basically agreed that killing tens of thousands of civilians and targeting civilian infrastructure was just wrong. I imagine they’d be hundreds of pages long if there were posters really passionately arguing that **actually** Russia never targeted civilians and it should be a crime in the U.S. to say that Russian soldiers carried out rape in Ukraine.

lol and don’t forget people dump on Russia for annexing Ukrainian land , but the same people look at settlements in the West Bank and go like ummmm it’s complicated Jewish state terrorists security right to exist…something!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again - NO ONE IS PRO-HAMAS. Stop using that strawman to shut down discussion.

If you're making demands of Israel that you don't make of Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Hamas isn't directly leeching off my tax dollars the way Israel is. If we're forced to prop up Israel financially, we have some say in how it spends our money and how it behaves.

Hamas indirectly leeches off our tax dollars because Netanyahu has been propping it up for years.

This means our tax dollars are used to support two terrorist organizations -- Israel AND Hamas.

you care more about your tax dollars (or the long term goal of seeing Israel wither on the vine and die w/o U.S. support) than actually helping the people in Gaza--you focus on the former instead of calling for immediate solutions (Hamas surrendering) that would help the people in a flash of an eye.

How would Hamas's surrender help Palestinians in the long term? Would it stop settler thugs in the West Bank from perpetrating their KKK-style predations on Palestinian homes and land? Wouldn't it just encourage Israel to continue dehumanizing Palestinians?

Of course, I want my tax dollars spent ethically. Israel, in its current incarnation, needs to die on the vine. It's an apartheid state that is currently butchering thousands of children. I don't see why I need to help fund such evil.

You are a cosseted person with the luxury of having opinions that entire nations should cease to exist.

You are a cosseted person who can support terrorists and zealots because you assume they'll never come anywhere near you.

You have an inflated opinion about how your "tax dollars" entitle you to influence other nations. For all your talk about Israel being full of "colonizers" you are the worst kind of armchair imperialist.

What is your view about how much of an opinion Americans are entitled to have about how their tax dollars are spent? Since you seem to draw the limit sometime before “posting on an internet politics discussion board” you clearly don’t have a very expansive view of the first amendment.

As we still live in a free nation you are free to have as many ill-considered opinions as you please. But when you start yelling like an irate first class passenger who's been denied a seat in the airport lounge about your tax dollars, I am free to laugh at you and your arrogant assumptions that paying American taxes should give your foreign policy ideas some weight.

Again, you're the worst kind of armchair imperialist. That's my opinion.

That’s a perfectly valid opinion.

The thing about a free nation is that we hold elections. One candidate is polling extremely poorly among groups that are absolute must-win in states that are absolute must-wins because of this issue.

It may well seem entitled to you that voters expect their opinions to carry weight, but if reporting is to be believed it’s causing real heartache among democratic strategists in Michigan right now.

Then they are morons. More like, some GOP strategists in Michigan (or more likely at some centralized location in Virginia), have decided they can push this as another wedge issue to fracture their opposition.

Your tax dollars sure do support Hamas. Have you heard of UNWRA? Your tax dollars finance UNWRA and in turn have financed the very terror tunnels that Hamas built to murder, torture, dismember, rape and kidnap Jews and others. The humanitarian aid that our tax dollars support in Gaza has gone directly to Hamas during this war. Hamas took it from their own people. Hamas shot their own people for trying to take food so they wouldn’t starve. You are very selective in the information you like to parrot, but you unfortunately don’t know the whole story of what goes on in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank. I don’t have the energy to point out your inaccuracies at the moment, but it is entirely obvious that you are parroting Hamas propaganda. If you are against the existence of Israel and antiZionist, you are antisemitic. You can criticize Israel like you criticize any country without being antisemitic. But if you hold Israel to a standard that you hold no other country to, then you are antisemitic.

You are accusing the United Nations of funding Hamas now. Ok. Let’s assume this is true: the U.S. contribution to UNWRA last year was $344M. Our contribution to Israel was $4.4B.

Even if every single dollar the UN received went to funding terrorism (which is quite a charge and begs the question how they also ran schools and hospitals and paid salaries but ok let’s live in your world). Our support to the UN is peanuts compared to our support for Israel.

Israel isn’t being held to a different standard. People on this thread were against the Saudi bombing of Yemen, passionately supported Ukraine in the face of Russian atrocities. What Israel isn’t being given— and for some reason Israel’s supporters really seem to want— is permission to behave like Russia but for no one to talk about it.

Did any one of those threads had 3 parts, 400 pages each?

I think the threads in which people are routinely accused of racism when they disagree with one side (the BLM threads come to mind) have that kind of activity. You’d have to ask Jeff.

Russia/Ukraine everyone basically agreed that killing tens of thousands of civilians and targeting civilian infrastructure was just wrong. I imagine they’d be hundreds of pages long if there were posters really passionately arguing that **actually** Russia never targeted civilians and it should be a crime in the U.S. to say that Russian soldiers carried out rape in Ukraine.

lol and don’t forget people dump on Russia for annexing Ukrainian land , but the same people look at settlements in the West Bank and go like ummmm it’s complicated Jewish state terrorists security right to exist…something!

Even the January 6th thread did not garner this much attention .The gaza threads are the longest DCUM ever seen. Te Ukraine thread is barely 400 pages, Gaza is close to 2000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again - NO ONE IS PRO-HAMAS. Stop using that strawman to shut down discussion.

If you're making demands of Israel that you don't make of Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Hamas isn't directly leeching off my tax dollars the way Israel is. If we're forced to prop up Israel financially, we have some say in how it spends our money and how it behaves.

Hamas indirectly leeches off our tax dollars because Netanyahu has been propping it up for years.

This means our tax dollars are used to support two terrorist organizations -- Israel AND Hamas.

you care more about your tax dollars (or the long term goal of seeing Israel wither on the vine and die w/o U.S. support) than actually helping the people in Gaza--you focus on the former instead of calling for immediate solutions (Hamas surrendering) that would help the people in a flash of an eye.

How would Hamas's surrender help Palestinians in the long term? Would it stop settler thugs in the West Bank from perpetrating their KKK-style predations on Palestinian homes and land? Wouldn't it just encourage Israel to continue dehumanizing Palestinians?

Of course, I want my tax dollars spent ethically. Israel, in its current incarnation, needs to die on the vine. It's an apartheid state that is currently butchering thousands of children. I don't see why I need to help fund such evil.

You are a cosseted person with the luxury of having opinions that entire nations should cease to exist.

You are a cosseted person who can support terrorists and zealots because you assume they'll never come anywhere near you.

You have an inflated opinion about how your "tax dollars" entitle you to influence other nations. For all your talk about Israel being full of "colonizers" you are the worst kind of armchair imperialist.

What is your view about how much of an opinion Americans are entitled to have about how their tax dollars are spent? Since you seem to draw the limit sometime before “posting on an internet politics discussion board” you clearly don’t have a very expansive view of the first amendment.

As we still live in a free nation you are free to have as many ill-considered opinions as you please. But when you start yelling like an irate first class passenger who's been denied a seat in the airport lounge about your tax dollars, I am free to laugh at you and your arrogant assumptions that paying American taxes should give your foreign policy ideas some weight.

Again, you're the worst kind of armchair imperialist. That's my opinion.

That’s a perfectly valid opinion.

The thing about a free nation is that we hold elections. One candidate is polling extremely poorly among groups that are absolute must-win in states that are absolute must-wins because of this issue.

It may well seem entitled to you that voters expect their opinions to carry weight, but if reporting is to be believed it’s causing real heartache among democratic strategists in Michigan right now.

Then they are morons. More like, some GOP strategists in Michigan (or more likely at some centralized location in Virginia), have decided they can push this as another wedge issue to fracture their opposition.

Your tax dollars sure do support Hamas. Have you heard of UNWRA? Your tax dollars finance UNWRA and in turn have financed the very terror tunnels that Hamas built to murder, torture, dismember, rape and kidnap Jews and others. The humanitarian aid that our tax dollars support in Gaza has gone directly to Hamas during this war. Hamas took it from their own people. Hamas shot their own people for trying to take food so they wouldn’t starve. You are very selective in the information you like to parrot, but you unfortunately don’t know the whole story of what goes on in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank. I don’t have the energy to point out your inaccuracies at the moment, but it is entirely obvious that you are parroting Hamas propaganda. If you are against the existence of Israel and antiZionist, you are antisemitic. You can criticize Israel like you criticize any country without being antisemitic. But if you hold Israel to a standard that you hold no other country to, then you are antisemitic.

You are accusing the United Nations of funding Hamas now. Ok. Let’s assume this is true: the U.S. contribution to UNWRA last year was $344M. Our contribution to Israel was $4.4B.

Even if every single dollar the UN received went to funding terrorism (which is quite a charge and begs the question how they also ran schools and hospitals and paid salaries but ok let’s live in your world). Our support to the UN is peanuts compared to our support for Israel.

Israel isn’t being held to a different standard. People on this thread were against the Saudi bombing of Yemen, passionately supported Ukraine in the face of Russian atrocities. What Israel isn’t being given— and for some reason Israel’s supporters really seem to want— is permission to behave like Russia but for no one to talk about it.

Did any one of those threads had 3 parts, 400 pages each?

I think the threads in which people are routinely accused of racism when they disagree with one side (the BLM threads come to mind) have that kind of activity. You’d have to ask Jeff.

Russia/Ukraine everyone basically agreed that killing tens of thousands of civilians and targeting civilian infrastructure was just wrong. I imagine they’d be hundreds of pages long if there were posters really passionately arguing that **actually** Russia never targeted civilians and it should be a crime in the U.S. to say that Russian soldiers carried out rape in Ukraine.

lol and don’t forget people dump on Russia for annexing Ukrainian land , but the same people look at settlements in the West Bank and go like ummmm it’s complicated Jewish state terrorists security right to exist…something!

Even the January 6th thread did not garner this much attention .The gaza threads are the longest DCUM ever seen. Te Ukraine thread is barely 400 pages, Gaza is close to 2000

Again, I think that’s explained because there isn’t someone who passionately believes criticism of Russia should be a crime in the United States.

I see the point you’re trying to make— that Israel is held to a higher standard and therefore it’s motivated by antisemitism— but it doesn’t account for the posts by the ardent pro-Israel and Islamophobic posts we’ve seen here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be super clear, the pro-Israel argument here is that all but ten members of the UN General Assembly— representing the overwhelming majority of the population of the world— are all pro-Hamas? Most of Europe, Japan, Australia…all pro-Hamas now?

https://time.com/6452308/us-votes-against-un-gaza-ceasefire-reactions/

What are you going on about? Are you just flooding this thread with vaguely anti-Israel nonsense to bury discussion about Hamas brutality and Palestinians' strategic embrace of terrorist violence?

The current discussion seems to be, any criticism of Israel’s conduct of the war, and the U.S.’ support thereof, is “pro-Hamas”.

So does that mean posters believe the vast majority of countries of the world are now pro-Hamas? Even the ones who supported Israel in October?

If you aren't trying to defeat Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Literally EVERYONE exchanging thoughts here is supportive of defeating Hamas.

The entire essence of the debate is (1) how to go about achieving that goal (either with regard for the human rights of the innocent civilians [the critics of Israel’s actions] or disregard for human life [the ride or die Zionists who want to defend Israel or obliterate the debate if that defense falls flat]), and then (2) marveling at how truly corrupt and unabashed many Zionists can be in defending the actions of the State of Israel, no matter how inhumane and bloodthirsty for revenge (while feigning shock and outrage that any other group could be allowed to resort to actions that are bloodthirsty for revenge).

if the concern was about the immediate safety of the people that would show in the approach taken--you all focusing on the long game of turning Israel into a villian are not showing care for the immediate safety of Gazans
TODAY-Hamas can surreder. Protest in the streets about that. Protest in front of Hamas's leaders. Instead you protest in front of Austin's house to play the long game in a land dispute.

You are spinning this, but the dog just don’t hunt. America has zero control over the decisions Hamas leadership are making right now. You know that. America SHOULD have nearly complete control over the decisions Israel is making right now, considering the nature of our support.

But since the status quo is your fallback position after you exhaust your “more, more, more for Israel!” pleas, you ensure gridlock by pretending that I can influence Hamas, or that the U.S. can influence Hamas. You just say it to cloud the discussion, and it’s frankly pathetic. Do you sincerely think you’re fooling anyone?

I imagine that this rope-a-dope BS worked to bamboozle ppl in the past, but those days are over.

Your strawman has reached the outer limits of absurdity.

Your ability to influence (or lack thereof) is most emphatically not at issue.

But if it were, of course you have the ability to influence Hamas.

All you need to do is support US politicians committed to massive military aid to Israel and a policy of aggressive containment towards Iran.

Trust me: Hamas will feel the influence.

Can we return to regularly scheduled programming now?

The days of outsmarting unsuspecting or sympathetic post-WWII rubes and convincing others to do the costly bidding are over. Go cry victim to someone else. America has been exploited by Israel enough already.

As for the “trust me” part: Wow, that is astounding. I would sooner trust just about anyone else in this world than trust someone who believes what you believe, that the answer to this never ending disaster of a concept (Zionism) is to send even more aid, “massive military aid to Israel”. You are insane. No thanks, check please.

Good grief. The antisemitism …. All these Jews “Outsmarting unsuspecting WWII rubes”? Wow. Is that how you characterize Jews who actually survived the Holocaust?

-If you disagree with IDF killing 22,000 people in retaliation for 1,000 = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing hopsitals = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF indscriminate bombing = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing churches/mosques = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing schools = anitsemite
-If you disagree with IDF illegally using chemical weapons = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF snipers shooting sheltering women in churches = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF murdering surrendering hostages = antisemite
-If you disagree with Israel using collective punishment = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing refugee camps = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF targeting ambulances and medical staff = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF targeting journalists = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing places they instructed palestinians to evacute to = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF murdering surrendering israeli hostages = antisemite

It's so hard to tell which are the terrorists anymore honestly. How is this the most "moral" army in the world?

Anything the idf targets is terrorist infrastructure. You are parroting Hamas! Unbelievable! You don’t want Palestinians to evacuate from areas that will be bombed? Are you nuts? Of course they should, otherwise you will accuse Israel of targeting civilians. Israel targets terrorists who embed amongst civilians. Israel didn’t intentionally kill their own people. All of this is Hamas propaganda. Why would you back a terror organization that is bent on genocide of Israel and has colonialist ambitions to take Jewish land? Did you know that Hamas, on October 7th, went to a music concert and tortured people before murdering them? Here is an example. Hamas or a Palestinian civilian, it isn’t clear which videoed themselves torturing and murdering a concertgoer and then sent the video to his group of friends on WhatsApp and to his mother. You know what they did to him? They cut off his penis and put it in his mouth while he was alive. That is what all his friends and his mother saw. His friend told this story to the world. And now here you are parroting Hamas propaganda.

First bolded - you misunderstood the statement. The IDF told palestinians where to evacuate to, told them it was safe and then proceeded to bomb said area.

Second bolded - why did they murder israeli hostages waving white flags?

The rest is whataboutism. Yes, we know terrorist groups like hamas are bad and committed war crimes. Israel is doing much more, on a much larger scale now. Israel is committing war crimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be super clear, the pro-Israel argument here is that all but ten members of the UN General Assembly— representing the overwhelming majority of the population of the world— are all pro-Hamas? Most of Europe, Japan, Australia…all pro-Hamas now?

https://time.com/6452308/us-votes-against-un-gaza-ceasefire-reactions/

What are you going on about? Are you just flooding this thread with vaguely anti-Israel nonsense to bury discussion about Hamas brutality and Palestinians' strategic embrace of terrorist violence?

The current discussion seems to be, any criticism of Israel’s conduct of the war, and the U.S.’ support thereof, is “pro-Hamas”.

So does that mean posters believe the vast majority of countries of the world are now pro-Hamas? Even the ones who supported Israel in October?

If you aren't trying to defeat Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Literally EVERYONE exchanging thoughts here is supportive of defeating Hamas.

The entire essence of the debate is (1) how to go about achieving that goal (either with regard for the human rights of the innocent civilians [the critics of Israel’s actions] or disregard for human life [the ride or die Zionists who want to defend Israel or obliterate the debate if that defense falls flat]), and then (2) marveling at how truly corrupt and unabashed many Zionists can be in defending the actions of the State of Israel, no matter how inhumane and bloodthirsty for revenge (while feigning shock and outrage that any other group could be allowed to resort to actions that are bloodthirsty for revenge).

if the concern was about the immediate safety of the people that would show in the approach taken--you all focusing on the long game of turning Israel into a villian are not showing care for the immediate safety of Gazans
TODAY-Hamas can surreder. Protest in the streets about that. Protest in front of Hamas's leaders. Instead you protest in front of Austin's house to play the long game in a land dispute.

You are spinning this, but the dog just don’t hunt. America has zero control over the decisions Hamas leadership are making right now. You know that. America SHOULD have nearly complete control over the decisions Israel is making right now, considering the nature of our support.

But since the status quo is your fallback position after you exhaust your “more, more, more for Israel!” pleas, you ensure gridlock by pretending that I can influence Hamas, or that the U.S. can influence Hamas. You just say it to cloud the discussion, and it’s frankly pathetic. Do you sincerely think you’re fooling anyone?

I imagine that this rope-a-dope BS worked to bamboozle ppl in the past, but those days are over.

Your strawman has reached the outer limits of absurdity.

Your ability to influence (or lack thereof) is most emphatically not at issue.

But if it were, of course you have the ability to influence Hamas.

All you need to do is support US politicians committed to massive military aid to Israel and a policy of aggressive containment towards Iran.

Trust me: Hamas will feel the influence.

Can we return to regularly scheduled programming now?

The days of outsmarting unsuspecting or sympathetic post-WWII rubes and convincing others to do the costly bidding are over. Go cry victim to someone else. America has been exploited by Israel enough already.

As for the “trust me” part: Wow, that is astounding. I would sooner trust just about anyone else in this world than trust someone who believes what you believe, that the answer to this never ending disaster of a concept (Zionism) is to send even more aid, “massive military aid to Israel”. You are insane. No thanks, check please.

Good grief. The antisemitism …. All these Jews “Outsmarting unsuspecting WWII rubes”? Wow. Is that how you characterize Jews who actually survived the Holocaust?

-If you disagree with IDF killing 22,000 people in retaliation for 1,000 = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing hopsitals = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF indscriminate bombing = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing churches/mosques = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing schools = anitsemite
-If you disagree with IDF illegally using chemical weapons = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF snipers shooting sheltering women in churches = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF murdering surrendering hostages = antisemite
-If you disagree with Israel using collective punishment = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing refugee camps = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF targeting ambulances and medical staff = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF targeting journalists = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing places they instructed palestinians to evacute to = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF murdering surrendering israeli hostages = antisemite

It's so hard to tell which are the terrorists anymore honestly. How is this the most "moral" army in the world?

Way to exaggerate to try to make an obvious point - people are afraid of being labeled as anti-semites, just the same way people were afraid of saying the wrong thing with the BLM movement.

But if you decide that you are super angry and upset about Palestinians dying in Gaza, but weren’t upset about the atrocities of October 7, and you weren’t upset about Palestinians being killed in Syria. . . Don’t you think that might have something to do with anti-semitism? Or perhaps you’ve just been brainwashed by the virtue signaling and liberalistic influencers who always focus on oppressed and oppressors?

I wish people spoke more about Hamas in these arguments. Hamas is the enemy of the Palestinians. Palestinians would have their own state but their government would never agree to a two state solution.

This is literally my point - you can't speak about any of this very long list of sh$t israel is doing without someone calling you an anti-semite. Being against suffering of people doesnt mean you agree with the suffering of other people. Why are you always trying to make this black and white? There is a million shades of grey in the middle of pro-israel/zionist and pro-hamas/anti-semite.

World Pacifism Day--its first anniversay will be 10/8/24

When you talk about Israel does this Israel does that, the point is you have an agenda. What do you want us to do with this information? If you say, let Israel wither on the vine and die, but what is that poses a risk to U.S. security? You don't care about that. So no, there is no gray with you.

I want pro-israelis to acknowledge israel and idf are committing war crimes and need to stop.

I didnt say the bolded.

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Anonymous wrote:Again - NO ONE IS PRO-HAMAS. Stop using that strawman to shut down discussion.

If you're making demands of Israel that you don't make of Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Hamas isn't directly leeching off my tax dollars the way Israel is. If we're forced to prop up Israel financially, we have some say in how it spends our money and how it behaves.

Hamas indirectly leeches off our tax dollars because Netanyahu has been propping it up for years.

This means our tax dollars are used to support two terrorist organizations -- Israel AND Hamas.

you care more about your tax dollars (or the long term goal of seeing Israel wither on the vine and die w/o U.S. support) than actually helping the people in Gaza--you focus on the former instead of calling for immediate solutions (Hamas surrendering) that would help the people in a flash of an eye.

How would Hamas's surrender help Palestinians in the long term? Would it stop settler thugs in the West Bank from perpetrating their KKK-style predations on Palestinian homes and land? Wouldn't it just encourage Israel to continue dehumanizing Palestinians?

Of course, I want my tax dollars spent ethically. Israel, in its current incarnation, needs to die on the vine. It's an apartheid state that is currently butchering thousands of children. I don't see why I need to help fund such evil.

You are a cosseted person with the luxury of having opinions that entire nations should cease to exist.

You are a cosseted person who can support terrorists and zealots because you assume they'll never come anywhere near you.

You have an inflated opinion about how your "tax dollars" entitle you to influence other nations. For all your talk about Israel being full of "colonizers" you are the worst kind of armchair imperialist.

What is your view about how much of an opinion Americans are entitled to have about how their tax dollars are spent? Since you seem to draw the limit sometime before “posting on an internet politics discussion board” you clearly don’t have a very expansive view of the first amendment.

As we still live in a free nation you are free to have as many ill-considered opinions as you please. But when you start yelling like an irate first class passenger who's been denied a seat in the airport lounge about your tax dollars, I am free to laugh at you and your arrogant assumptions that paying American taxes should give your foreign policy ideas some weight.

Again, you're the worst kind of armchair imperialist. That's my opinion.

That’s a perfectly valid opinion.

The thing about a free nation is that we hold elections. One candidate is polling extremely poorly among groups that are absolute must-win in states that are absolute must-wins because of this issue.

It may well seem entitled to you that voters expect their opinions to carry weight, but if reporting is to be believed it’s causing real heartache among democratic strategists in Michigan right now.

Then they are morons. More like, some GOP strategists in Michigan (or more likely at some centralized location in Virginia), have decided they can push this as another wedge issue to fracture their opposition.

Your tax dollars sure do support Hamas. Have you heard of UNWRA? Your tax dollars finance UNWRA and in turn have financed the very terror tunnels that Hamas built to murder, torture, dismember, rape and kidnap Jews and others. The humanitarian aid that our tax dollars support in Gaza has gone directly to Hamas during this war. Hamas took it from their own people. Hamas shot their own people for trying to take food so they wouldn’t starve. You are very selective in the information you like to parrot, but you unfortunately don’t know the whole story of what goes on in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank. I don’t have the energy to point out your inaccuracies at the moment, but it is entirely obvious that you are parroting Hamas propaganda. If you are against the existence of Israel and antiZionist, you are antisemitic. You can criticize Israel like you criticize any country without being antisemitic. But if you hold Israel to a standard that you hold no other country to, then you are antisemitic.

You are accusing the United Nations of funding Hamas now. Ok. Let’s assume this is true: the U.S. contribution to UNWRA last year was $344M. Our contribution to Israel was $4.4B.

Even if every single dollar the UN received went to funding terrorism (which is quite a charge and begs the question how they also ran schools and hospitals and paid salaries but ok let’s live in your world). Our support to the UN is peanuts compared to our support for Israel.

Israel isn’t being held to a different standard. People on this thread were against the Saudi bombing of Yemen, passionately supported Ukraine in the face of Russian atrocities. What Israel isn’t being given— and for some reason Israel’s supporters really seem to want— is permission to behave like Russia but for no one to talk about it.

Did any one of those threads had 3 parts, 400 pages each?

I think the threads in which people are routinely accused of racism when they disagree with one side (the BLM threads come to mind) have that kind of activity. You’d have to ask Jeff.

Russia/Ukraine everyone basically agreed that killing tens of thousands of civilians and targeting civilian infrastructure was just wrong. I imagine they’d be hundreds of pages long if there were posters really passionately arguing that **actually** Russia never targeted civilians and it should be a crime in the U.S. to say that Russian soldiers carried out rape in Ukraine.

lol and don’t forget people dump on Russia for annexing Ukrainian land , but the same people look at settlements in the West Bank and go like ummmm it’s complicated Jewish state terrorists security right to exist…something!

Even the January 6th thread did not garner this much attention .The gaza threads are the longest DCUM ever seen. Te Ukraine thread is barely 400 pages, Gaza is close to 2000

Again, I think that’s explained because there isn’t someone who passionately believes criticism of Russia should be a crime in the United States.

I see the point you’re trying to make— that Israel is held to a higher standard and therefore it’s motivated by antisemitism— but it doesn’t account for the posts by the ardent pro-Israel and Islamophobic posts we’ve seen here.

I challenge you to count and tally how many people think anti Israel equals antisemitism vs. Israel is a terrorist state, Jews with dual citizenship should be expelled, light upon national chosen people garbage, Jews have more affinity for Israel than the United States, media control, the organ harvesting trope, beheaded babies and everything IDF says is a lie, yada yada yada and don’t get me started in “she was wearing underwear” multi page discussion disparaging Shani Louk

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Anonymous wrote:Again - NO ONE IS PRO-HAMAS. Stop using that strawman to shut down discussion.

If you're making demands of Israel that you don't make of Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Hamas isn't directly leeching off my tax dollars the way Israel is. If we're forced to prop up Israel financially, we have some say in how it spends our money and how it behaves.

Hamas indirectly leeches off our tax dollars because Netanyahu has been propping it up for years.

This means our tax dollars are used to support two terrorist organizations -- Israel AND Hamas.

you care more about your tax dollars (or the long term goal of seeing Israel wither on the vine and die w/o U.S. support) than actually helping the people in Gaza--you focus on the former instead of calling for immediate solutions (Hamas surrendering) that would help the people in a flash of an eye.

How would Hamas's surrender help Palestinians in the long term? Would it stop settler thugs in the West Bank from perpetrating their KKK-style predations on Palestinian homes and land? Wouldn't it just encourage Israel to continue dehumanizing Palestinians?

Of course, I want my tax dollars spent ethically. Israel, in its current incarnation, needs to die on the vine. It's an apartheid state that is currently butchering thousands of children. I don't see why I need to help fund such evil.

You are a cosseted person with the luxury of having opinions that entire nations should cease to exist.

You are a cosseted person who can support terrorists and zealots because you assume they'll never come anywhere near you.

You have an inflated opinion about how your "tax dollars" entitle you to influence other nations. For all your talk about Israel being full of "colonizers" you are the worst kind of armchair imperialist.

What is your view about how much of an opinion Americans are entitled to have about how their tax dollars are spent? Since you seem to draw the limit sometime before “posting on an internet politics discussion board” you clearly don’t have a very expansive view of the first amendment.

As we still live in a free nation you are free to have as many ill-considered opinions as you please. But when you start yelling like an irate first class passenger who's been denied a seat in the airport lounge about your tax dollars, I am free to laugh at you and your arrogant assumptions that paying American taxes should give your foreign policy ideas some weight.

Again, you're the worst kind of armchair imperialist. That's my opinion.

That’s a perfectly valid opinion.

The thing about a free nation is that we hold elections. One candidate is polling extremely poorly among groups that are absolute must-win in states that are absolute must-wins because of this issue.

It may well seem entitled to you that voters expect their opinions to carry weight, but if reporting is to be believed it’s causing real heartache among democratic strategists in Michigan right now.

Then they are morons. More like, some GOP strategists in Michigan (or more likely at some centralized location in Virginia), have decided they can push this as another wedge issue to fracture their opposition.

Your tax dollars sure do support Hamas. Have you heard of UNWRA? Your tax dollars finance UNWRA and in turn have financed the very terror tunnels that Hamas built to murder, torture, dismember, rape and kidnap Jews and others. The humanitarian aid that our tax dollars support in Gaza has gone directly to Hamas during this war. Hamas took it from their own people. Hamas shot their own people for trying to take food so they wouldn’t starve. You are very selective in the information you like to parrot, but you unfortunately don’t know the whole story of what goes on in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank. I don’t have the energy to point out your inaccuracies at the moment, but it is entirely obvious that you are parroting Hamas propaganda. If you are against the existence of Israel and antiZionist, you are antisemitic. You can criticize Israel like you criticize any country without being antisemitic. But if you hold Israel to a standard that you hold no other country to, then you are antisemitic.

You are accusing the United Nations of funding Hamas now. Ok. Let’s assume this is true: the U.S. contribution to UNWRA last year was $344M. Our contribution to Israel was $4.4B.

Even if every single dollar the UN received went to funding terrorism (which is quite a charge and begs the question how they also ran schools and hospitals and paid salaries but ok let’s live in your world). Our support to the UN is peanuts compared to our support for Israel.

Israel isn’t being held to a different standard. People on this thread were against the Saudi bombing of Yemen, passionately supported Ukraine in the face of Russian atrocities. What Israel isn’t being given— and for some reason Israel’s supporters really seem to want— is permission to behave like Russia but for no one to talk about it.

+1
Criticizing israels collective punishment and over zealous retaliation is not anti-semitic.

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Anonymous wrote:To be super clear, the pro-Israel argument here is that all but ten members of the UN General Assembly— representing the overwhelming majority of the population of the world— are all pro-Hamas? Most of Europe, Japan, Australia…all pro-Hamas now?

https://time.com/6452308/us-votes-against-un-gaza-ceasefire-reactions/

What are you going on about? Are you just flooding this thread with vaguely anti-Israel nonsense to bury discussion about Hamas brutality and Palestinians' strategic embrace of terrorist violence?

The current discussion seems to be, any criticism of Israel’s conduct of the war, and the U.S.’ support thereof, is “pro-Hamas”.

So does that mean posters believe the vast majority of countries of the world are now pro-Hamas? Even the ones who supported Israel in October?

If you aren't trying to defeat Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Literally EVERYONE exchanging thoughts here is supportive of defeating Hamas.

The entire essence of the debate is (1) how to go about achieving that goal (either with regard for the human rights of the innocent civilians [the critics of Israel’s actions] or disregard for human life [the ride or die Zionists who want to defend Israel or obliterate the debate if that defense falls flat]), and then (2) marveling at how truly corrupt and unabashed many Zionists can be in defending the actions of the State of Israel, no matter how inhumane and bloodthirsty for revenge (while feigning shock and outrage that any other group could be allowed to resort to actions that are bloodthirsty for revenge).

if the concern was about the immediate safety of the people that would show in the approach taken--you all focusing on the long game of turning Israel into a villian are not showing care for the immediate safety of Gazans
TODAY-Hamas can surreder. Protest in the streets about that. Protest in front of Hamas's leaders. Instead you protest in front of Austin's house to play the long game in a land dispute.

You are spinning this, but the dog just don’t hunt. America has zero control over the decisions Hamas leadership are making right now. You know that. America SHOULD have nearly complete control over the decisions Israel is making right now, considering the nature of our support.

But since the status quo is your fallback position after you exhaust your “more, more, more for Israel!” pleas, you ensure gridlock by pretending that I can influence Hamas, or that the U.S. can influence Hamas. You just say it to cloud the discussion, and it’s frankly pathetic. Do you sincerely think you’re fooling anyone?

I imagine that this rope-a-dope BS worked to bamboozle ppl in the past, but those days are over.

Your strawman has reached the outer limits of absurdity.

Your ability to influence (or lack thereof) is most emphatically not at issue.

But if it were, of course you have the ability to influence Hamas.

All you need to do is support US politicians committed to massive military aid to Israel and a policy of aggressive containment towards Iran.

Trust me: Hamas will feel the influence.

Can we return to regularly scheduled programming now?

The days of outsmarting unsuspecting or sympathetic post-WWII rubes and convincing others to do the costly bidding are over. Go cry victim to someone else. America has been exploited by Israel enough already.

As for the “trust me” part: Wow, that is astounding. I would sooner trust just about anyone else in this world than trust someone who believes what you believe, that the answer to this never ending disaster of a concept (Zionism) is to send even more aid, “massive military aid to Israel”. You are insane. No thanks, check please.

Good grief. The antisemitism …. All these Jews “Outsmarting unsuspecting WWII rubes”? Wow. Is that how you characterize Jews who actually survived the Holocaust?

-If you disagree with IDF killing 22,000 people in retaliation for 1,000 = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing hopsitals = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF indscriminate bombing = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing churches/mosques = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing schools = anitsemite
-If you disagree with IDF illegally using chemical weapons = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF snipers shooting sheltering women in churches = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF murdering surrendering hostages = antisemite
-If you disagree with Israel using collective punishment = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing refugee camps = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF targeting ambulances and medical staff = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF targeting journalists = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing places they instructed palestinians to evacute to = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF murdering surrendering israeli hostages = antisemite

It's so hard to tell which are the terrorists anymore honestly. How is this the most "moral" army in the world?

Anything the idf targets is terrorist infrastructure. You are parroting Hamas! Unbelievable! You don’t want Palestinians to evacuate from areas that will be bombed? Are you nuts? Of course they should, otherwise you will accuse Israel of targeting civilians. Israel targets terrorists who embed amongst civilians. Israel didn’t intentionally kill their own people. All of this is Hamas propaganda. Why would you back a terror organization that is bent on genocide of Israel and has colonialist ambitions to take Jewish land? Did you know that Hamas, on October 7th, went to a music concert and tortured people before murdering them? Here is an example. Hamas or a Palestinian civilian, it isn’t clear which videoed themselves torturing and murdering a concertgoer and then sent the video to his group of friends on WhatsApp and to his mother. You know what they did to him? They cut off his penis and put it in his mouth while he was alive. That is what all his friends and his mother saw. His friend told this story to the world. And now here you are parroting Hamas propaganda.

First bolded - you misunderstood the statement. The IDF told palestinians where to evacuate to, told them it was safe and then proceeded to bomb said area.

Second bolded - why did they murder israeli hostages waving white flags?

The rest is whataboutism. Yes, we know terrorist groups like hamas are bad and committed war crimes. Israel is doing much more, on a much larger scale now. Israel is committing war crimes.

I think (hope?) the post you’re responding to is satire.