Cliff Notes summary of MCPS boundary study fight?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about home values.

That's a big part of it, but it's also strongly connected to racism.

How will any of this change?

Even if we "brown out" the country, likes will attract likes. college educated? You'll have friends and colleagues who are also in white collar professions.

And if the schools are "leveled" by race and SES, you'll find ways to send your kids to private. And you'll still be in a neighborhood with others "like you." You'll find your people.

Humans are tribal by nature. We seek others who are like us. And sadly, money is one way to separate folks.

And everyone is also entitled to the same high-quality public education regardless where they live. Unfortunately, there are good and bad schools at least that’s what people on this board constantly say. Addressing this so all students can rise to their potential seem like the right thing to do.

I have no problem with the boundary study. However, I have watched the BOE meetings and there is a warped tendency to retaliate against W schools...I even heard one board member say something to the effect that she would like to see those W school students NEED to get more exposure to brown kids. That's paraphrasing, but it's pretty blatant where their heads are. I think mostly they are frustrated because they can't really touch the W schools like Churchill and Whitman.

Wow. Exposure to brown kids is a form of retaliation from your perspective? That just says it all.

Signed,
A Whitman alum who wishes there had been more brown kids like her

I just don't see how they can pull off exposing the Churchill kids to any diversity. They are tucked in to an area that is not adjacent to any diversity...they would truly have to bus across the county to accomplish that. I think that is why the PP considers it to be retaliation. And I do think the BOE has it out for the W schools...they use the term with such disdain in those meetings.

It's easy to imagine how Churchill could pick up some diversity simply by adjusting the edges of its boundaries. It shares borders with both RMHS and Northwest HS. However, I suspect the most change will be around Woodward and the schools like Kennedy, Wheaton, Einstein and WJ that share boundaries. This will have an impact on other nearby schools like Churchill too.

Take a closer look. Churchill's only boundaries are with Wootton, RM, WJ, and Whitman. I would say there is not much room for diversity there. In order to increase diversity, they would need to "bus across the county. Northwest HS is 13 miles away from Churchill.

That's actually not true. Churchill borders Northwest on its SW edge and BCC on its SE. Further, Wootton's boundary is kind of oddly shaped and far from optimal.

Wrong and wrong. Churchill only borders Whitman, WJ, Wootton, and RM. Look at the map.

I am looking at a map that shows it borders Northwest in its SW corner and BCC on its SE and seems like it would be super easy to diversify Churchill.

https://www.zipdatamaps.com/schools/maryland/county/map-of-montgomery-county-md-high-school-attendance-zones

It does border Northwest in the corner and given the weird shape of Wotton it's close enough that I can see that boundary being in play. On the SW though that's Whitman not BCC, but totally understand how a person might confuse them since they're pretty interchangeable.

This map was taken from the MCPS website...so I would guess it is the most accurate. Note there is no border between Churchill and Northwest. Case closed.

Looks like Churchill is very near both QO and Northwest. These present great opportunities for creating greater diversity by drawing from nearby schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about home values.

Looks like Churchill is very near both QO and Northwest. These present great opportunities for creating greater diversity by drawing from nearby schools.

Not if the BOE stands by their assertion that border changes will be with adjacent clusters. I still say most of Churchill cluster will go unscathed. That large border with VA really helps us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about home values.

That's a big part of it, but it's also strongly connected to racism.

How will any of this change?

Even if we "brown out" the country, likes will attract likes. college educated? You'll have friends and colleagues who are also in white collar professions.

And if the schools are "leveled" by race and SES, you'll find ways to send your kids to private. And you'll still be in a neighborhood with others "like you." You'll find your people.

Humans are tribal by nature. We seek others who are like us. And sadly, money is one way to separate folks.

And everyone is also entitled to the same high-quality public education regardless where they live. Unfortunately, there are good and bad schools at least that’s what people on this board constantly say. Addressing this so all students can rise to their potential seem like the right thing to do.

I have no problem with the boundary study. However, I have watched the BOE meetings and there is a warped tendency to retaliate against W schools...I even heard one board member say something to the effect that she would like to see those W school students NEED to get more exposure to brown kids. That's paraphrasing, but it's pretty blatant where their heads are. I think mostly they are frustrated because they can't really touch the W schools like Churchill and Whitman.

Wow. Exposure to brown kids is a form of retaliation from your perspective? That just says it all.

Signed,
A Whitman alum who wishes there had been more brown kids like her

I just don't see how they can pull off exposing the Churchill kids to any diversity. They are tucked in to an area that is not adjacent to any diversity...they would truly have to bus across the county to accomplish that. I think that is why the PP considers it to be retaliation. And I do think the BOE has it out for the W schools...they use the term with such disdain in those meetings.

It's easy to imagine how Churchill could pick up some diversity simply by adjusting the edges of its boundaries. It shares borders with both RMHS and Northwest HS. However, I suspect the most change will be around Woodward and the schools like Kennedy, Wheaton, Einstein and WJ that share boundaries. This will have an impact on other nearby schools like Churchill too.

Take a closer look. Churchill's only boundaries are with Wootton, RM, WJ, and Whitman. I would say there is not much room for diversity there. In order to increase diversity, they would need to "bus across the county. Northwest HS is 13 miles away from Churchill.

That's actually not true. Churchill borders Northwest on its SW edge and BCC on its SE. Further, Wootton's boundary is kind of oddly shaped and far from optimal.

Wrong and wrong. Churchill only borders Whitman, WJ, Wootton, and RM. Look at the map.

I am looking at a map that shows it borders Northwest in its SW corner and BCC on its SE and seems like it would be super easy to diversify Churchill.

https://www.zipdatamaps.com/schools/maryland/county/map-of-montgomery-county-md-high-school-attendance-zones

It does border Northwest in the corner and given the weird shape of Wotton it's close enough that I can see that boundary being in play. On the SW though that's Whitman not BCC, but totally understand how a person might confuse them since they're pretty interchangeable.

This map was taken from the MCPS website...so I would guess it is the most accurate. Note there is no border between Churchill and Northwest. Case closed.

Looks like Churchill is very near both QO and Northwest. These present great opportunities for creating greater diversity by drawing from nearby schools.

Not if the BOE stands by their assertion that border changes will be with adjacent clusters. I still say most of Churchill cluster will go unscathed. That large border with VA really helps us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about home values.

That's a big part of it, but it's also strongly connected to racism.

How will any of this change?

Even if we "brown out" the country, likes will attract likes. college educated? You'll have friends and colleagues who are also in white collar professions.

And if the schools are "leveled" by race and SES, you'll find ways to send your kids to private. And you'll still be in a neighborhood with others "like you." You'll find your people.

Humans are tribal by nature. We seek others who are like us. And sadly, money is one way to separate folks.

And everyone is also entitled to the same high-quality public education regardless where they live. Unfortunately, there are good and bad schools at least that’s what people on this board constantly say. Addressing this so all students can rise to their potential seem like the right thing to do.

Are you for real??? No one is entitled to anything, you get what you pay for. Sad but true.

No, the public school system is not set up as a fee-for-service system. And especially not on a housing-fee-for-school-service system.

Very true but I think many of the posters here fail to grasp this.

My issue is that I bought my house by making an agreement with a bank. I got a loan for a house in a W cluster. I agreed to leverage my time and treasure to buy a house zoned for a school that was good for my child. I do not approve of the Montgomery county Board of Education deciding that my bank should charge me the same for a now cheaper house. All so the BoE can say they “ we got revenge on the W schools for being too homogeneous.” The bank doesn’t care and will still charge me the same every month.

Here’s the main point: you made a mistake. You bought your house based on one set of assumptions, and you were wrong. Some people buy oceanfront property that crumbles into the sea, some people’s homes are lost in tornadoes, and some people’s homes lose value because boundaries change. You said it right at the beginning: you made an agreement with a bank. You didn’t sign a contract with MCPS. You might have invested in Bitcoin or Google stock or whatever, but it is really not my child’s fault or the fault of any child in the county that you stand to lose a little money, so please don’t punish the children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about home values.

That's a big part of it, but it's also strongly connected to racism.

How will any of this change?

Even if we "brown out" the country, likes will attract likes. college educated? You'll have friends and colleagues who are also in white collar professions.

And if the schools are "leveled" by race and SES, you'll find ways to send your kids to private. And you'll still be in a neighborhood with others "like you." You'll find your people.

Humans are tribal by nature. We seek others who are like us. And sadly, money is one way to separate folks.

And everyone is also entitled to the same high-quality public education regardless where they live. Unfortunately, there are good and bad schools at least that’s what people on this board constantly say. Addressing this so all students can rise to their potential seem like the right thing to do.

Are you for real??? No one is entitled to anything, you get what you pay for. Sad but true.

No, the public school system is not set up as a fee-for-service system. And especially not on a housing-fee-for-school-service system.

Very true but I think many of the posters here fail to grasp this.

My issue is that I bought my house by making an agreement with a bank. I got a loan for a house in a W cluster. I agreed to leverage my time and treasure to buy a house zoned for a school that was good for my child. I do not approve of the Montgomery county Board of Education deciding that my bank should charge me the same for a now cheaper house. All so the BoE can say they “ we got revenge on the W schools for being too homogeneous.” The bank doesn’t care and will still charge me the same every month.

Here’s the main point: you made a mistake. You bought your house based on one set of assumptions, and you were wrong. Some people buy oceanfront property that crumbles into the sea, some people’s homes are lost in tornadoes, and some people’s homes lose value because boundaries change. You said it right at the beginning: you made an agreement with a bank. You didn’t sign a contract with MCPS. You might have invested in Bitcoin or Google stock or whatever, but it is really not my child’s fault or the fault of any child in the county that you stand to lose a little money, so please don’t punish the children.

Don't punish the children? Lol. This isn't going to help any children. It's all a waste of time and money.

[Anonymous]

Whitmas is in a bubble. It will remain untouched.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about home values.

That's a big part of it, but it's also strongly connected to racism.

How will any of this change?

Even if we "brown out" the country, likes will attract likes. college educated? You'll have friends and colleagues who are also in white collar professions.

And if the schools are "leveled" by race and SES, you'll find ways to send your kids to private. And you'll still be in a neighborhood with others "like you." You'll find your people.

Humans are tribal by nature. We seek others who are like us. And sadly, money is one way to separate folks.

And everyone is also entitled to the same high-quality public education regardless where they live. Unfortunately, there are good and bad schools at least that’s what people on this board constantly say. Addressing this so all students can rise to their potential seem like the right thing to do.

Are you for real??? No one is entitled to anything, you get what you pay for. Sad but true.

No, the public school system is not set up as a fee-for-service system. And especially not on a housing-fee-for-school-service system.

Very true but I think many of the posters here fail to grasp this.

My issue is that I bought my house by making an agreement with a bank. I got a loan for a house in a W cluster. I agreed to leverage my time and treasure to buy a house zoned for a school that was good for my child. I do not approve of the Montgomery county Board of Education deciding that my bank should charge me the same for a now cheaper house. All so the BoE can say they “ we got revenge on the W schools for being too homogeneous.” The bank doesn’t care and will still charge me the same every month.

Here’s the main point: you made a mistake. You bought your house based on one set of assumptions, and you were wrong. Some people buy oceanfront property that crumbles into the sea, some people’s homes are lost in tornadoes, and some people’s homes lose value because boundaries change. You said it right at the beginning: you made an agreement with a bank. You didn’t sign a contract with MCPS. You might have invested in Bitcoin or Google stock or whatever, but it is really not my child’s fault or the fault of any child in the county that you stand to lose a little money, so please don’t punish the children.

Don't punish the children? Lol. This isn't going to help any children. It's all a waste of time and money.

Of course you think it's a waste of time and money. You believe you will lose money if redistricting occurs with consideration for diversity (you don't even know what exactly they will do). Or you are a actually a realtor who wants to nip this discussion in the bud so you can keep upselling houses. You and 90% of opponents of redistricting are looking at this from that lens which is why you can't see the value to students. You all are not exactly unbiased researchers lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My issue is that I bought my house by making an agreement with a bank. I got a loan for a house in a W cluster. I agreed to leverage my time and treasure to buy a house zoned for a school that was good for my child. I do not approve of the Montgomery county Board of Education deciding that my bank should charge me the same for a now cheaper house. All so the BoE can say they “ we got revenge on the W schools for being too homogeneous.” The bank doesn’t care and will still charge me the same every month.

Yes, you did. And the agreement with the bank almost certainly does not have any mention of the agreement being contingent on school assignments. On the other hand, if the agreement with the bank is contingent on school assignments, then you can renegotiate with the bank if the school assignments change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My issue is that I bought my house by making an agreement with a bank. I got a loan for a house in a W cluster. I agreed to leverage my time and treasure to buy a house zoned for a school that was good for my child. I do not approve of the Montgomery county Board of Education deciding that my bank should charge me the same for a now cheaper house. All so the BoE can say they “ we got revenge on the W schools for being too homogeneous.” The bank doesn’t care and will still charge me the same every month.

Yes, you did. And the agreement with the bank almost certainly does not have any mention of the agreement being contingent on school assignments. On the other hand, if the agreement with the bank is contingent on school assignments, then you can renegotiate with the bank if the school assignments change.

We live in the Churchill cluster now and were considering moving to Chevy Chase or Bethesda to be closer to our daughter's private school. I think we will stay put for now because our location is so close to Churchill and smack in the middle of the cluster, that we feel it is a safer bet just to hold this real estate for now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whitmas is in a bubble. It will remain untouched.

I read the county was going to put their countywide signature ESOL program at Whitman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about home values.

That's a big part of it, but it's also strongly connected to racism.

How will any of this change?

Even if we "brown out" the country, likes will attract likes. college educated? You'll have friends and colleagues who are also in white collar professions.

And if the schools are "leveled" by race and SES, you'll find ways to send your kids to private. And you'll still be in a neighborhood with others "like you." You'll find your people.

Humans are tribal by nature. We seek others who are like us. And sadly, money is one way to separate folks.

And everyone is also entitled to the same high-quality public education regardless where they live. Unfortunately, there are good and bad schools at least that’s what people on this board constantly say. Addressing this so all students can rise to their potential seem like the right thing to do.

Are you for real??? No one is entitled to anything, you get what you pay for. Sad but true.

No, the public school system is not set up as a fee-for-service system. And especially not on a housing-fee-for-school-service system.

Very true but I think many of the posters here fail to grasp this.

My issue is that I bought my house by making an agreement with a bank. I got a loan for a house in a W cluster. I agreed to leverage my time and treasure to buy a house zoned for a school that was good for my child. I do not approve of the Montgomery county Board of Education deciding that my bank should charge me the same for a now cheaper house. All so the BoE can say they “ we got revenge on the W schools for being too homogeneous.” The bank doesn’t care and will still charge me the same every month.

Here’s the main point: you made a mistake. You bought your house based on one set of assumptions, and you were wrong. Some people buy oceanfront property that crumbles into the sea, some people’s homes are lost in tornadoes, and some people’s homes lose value because boundaries change. You said it right at the beginning: you made an agreement with a bank. You didn’t sign a contract with MCPS. You might have invested in Bitcoin or Google stock or whatever, but it is really not my child’s fault or the fault of any child in the county that you stand to lose a little money, so please don’t punish the children.

Don't punish the children? Lol. This isn't going to help any children. It's all a waste of time and money.

Of course you think it's a waste of time and money. You believe you will lose money if redistricting occurs with consideration for diversity (you don't even know what exactly they will do). Or you are a actually a realtor who wants to nip this discussion in the bud so you can keep upselling houses. You and 90% of opponents of redistricting are looking at this from that lens which is why you can't see the value to students. You all are not exactly unbiased researchers lol.

Just curious. Do you really believe that redistriciting has value for students? That students who are currently not doing well will miraculously start doing well if you transfer them to another MCPS school/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whitmas is in a bubble. It will remain untouched.

I read the county was going to put their countywide signature ESOL program at Whitman.

That's funny. I actually think Whitman would be ok with that. It would mean others getting bussed in rather than them getting bussed out. Most families I know in the Whitman cluster want more diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about home values.

That's a big part of it, but it's also strongly connected to racism.

How will any of this change?

Even if we "brown out" the country, likes will attract likes. college educated? You'll have friends and colleagues who are also in white collar professions.

And if the schools are "leveled" by race and SES, you'll find ways to send your kids to private. And you'll still be in a neighborhood with others "like you." You'll find your people.

Humans are tribal by nature. We seek others who are like us. And sadly, money is one way to separate folks.

And everyone is also entitled to the same high-quality public education regardless where they live. Unfortunately, there are good and bad schools at least that’s what people on this board constantly say. Addressing this so all students can rise to their potential seem like the right thing to do.

Are you for real??? No one is entitled to anything, you get what you pay for. Sad but true.

No, the public school system is not set up as a fee-for-service system. And especially not on a housing-fee-for-school-service system.

Very true but I think many of the posters here fail to grasp this.

My issue is that I bought my house by making an agreement with a bank. I got a loan for a house in a W cluster. I agreed to leverage my time and treasure to buy a house zoned for a school that was good for my child. I do not approve of the Montgomery county Board of Education deciding that my bank should charge me the same for a now cheaper house. All so the BoE can say they “ we got revenge on the W schools for being too homogeneous.” The bank doesn’t care and will still charge me the same every month.

Here’s the main point: you made a mistake. You bought your house based on one set of assumptions, and you were wrong. Some people buy oceanfront property that crumbles into the sea, some people’s homes are lost in tornadoes, and some people’s homes lose value because boundaries change. You said it right at the beginning: you made an agreement with a bank. You didn’t sign a contract with MCPS. You might have invested in Bitcoin or Google stock or whatever, but it is really not my child’s fault or the fault of any child in the county that you stand to lose a little money, so please don’t punish the children.

Don't punish the children? Lol. This isn't going to help any children. It's all a waste of time and money.

Of course you think it's a waste of time and money. You believe you will lose money if redistricting occurs with consideration for diversity (you don't even know what exactly they will do). Or you are a actually a realtor who wants to nip this discussion in the bud so you can keep upselling houses. You and 90% of opponents of redistricting are looking at this from that lens which is why you can't see the value to students. You all are not exactly unbiased researchers lol.

Just curious. Do you really believe that redistriciting has value for students? That students who are currently not doing well will miraculously start doing well if you transfer them to another MCPS school/

Obviously think it's a little more complicated than that and also I do not know what "redistricting" will entail, but yes, I do think less segregation would be beneficial. Why do you care what I think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whitmas is in a bubble. It will remain untouched.

I read the county was going to put their countywide signature ESOL program at Whitman.

That's funny. I actually think Whitman would be ok with that. It would mean others getting bussed in rather than them getting bussed out. Most families I know in the Whitman cluster want more diversity.

When Sherwood opted out of the NEC, they placed an ESOL program in the school. It hasn't created any issues, as the program itself is a bubble. They don't service METS students.

Serves the Sherwood HS and and Northeast Consortium attendance areas, except for students who live in the Broad Acres ES attendance area

Whitman is also on the list, servicing its own students and those from Churchill. (no METS) ESOL students can also be sons/daughters of diplomats, for example. METS kids are illiterate due to interruptions in education.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/esol/instruction/high-centers.aspx

These are schools that service METS kids - https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/esol/instruction/mets.aspx

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about home values.

That's a big part of it, but it's also strongly connected to racism.

How will any of this change?

Even if we "brown out" the country, likes will attract likes. college educated? You'll have friends and colleagues who are also in white collar professions.

And if the schools are "leveled" by race and SES, you'll find ways to send your kids to private. And you'll still be in a neighborhood with others "like you." You'll find your people.

Humans are tribal by nature. We seek others who are like us. And sadly, money is one way to separate folks.

And everyone is also entitled to the same high-quality public education regardless where they live. Unfortunately, there are good and bad schools at least that’s what people on this board constantly say. Addressing this so all students can rise to their potential seem like the right thing to do.

Are you for real??? No one is entitled to anything, you get what you pay for. Sad but true.

No, the public school system is not set up as a fee-for-service system. And especially not on a housing-fee-for-school-service system.

Very true but I think many of the posters here fail to grasp this.

My issue is that I bought my house by making an agreement with a bank. I got a loan for a house in a W cluster. I agreed to leverage my time and treasure to buy a house zoned for a school that was good for my child. I do not approve of the Montgomery county Board of Education deciding that my bank should charge me the same for a now cheaper house. All so the BoE can say they “ we got revenge on the W schools for being too homogeneous.” The bank doesn’t care and will still charge me the same every month.

Here’s the main point: you made a mistake. You bought your house based on one set of assumptions, and you were wrong. Some people buy oceanfront property that crumbles into the sea, some people’s homes are lost in tornadoes, and some people’s homes lose value because boundaries change. You said it right at the beginning: you made an agreement with a bank. You didn’t sign a contract with MCPS. You might have invested in Bitcoin or Google stock or whatever, but it is really not my child’s fault or the fault of any child in the county that you stand to lose a little money, so please don’t punish the children.

Don't punish the children? Lol. This isn't going to help any children. It's all a waste of time and money.

Of course you think it's a waste of time and money. You believe you will lose money if redistricting occurs with consideration for diversity (you don't even know what exactly they will do). Or you are a actually a realtor who wants to nip this discussion in the bud so you can keep upselling houses. You and 90% of opponents of redistricting are looking at this from that lens which is why you can't see the value to students. You all are not exactly unbiased researchers lol.

Just curious. Do you really believe that redistriciting has value for students? That students who are currently not doing well will miraculously start doing well if you transfer them to another MCPS school/

Yes, the vast majority of experts in the field of education and the MoCo BOE seem to agree that reducing schools with high concentrations of poverty allows more low-income students to succeed.