Cliff Notes summary of MCPS boundary study fight?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This has to be a joke. Do you really not see how you have proven my point?

1. Then Churchill stays low diversity and Whitman doesn't.
2. The reverse
3. Both attain higher diversity through boundary changes that require busing. (It is also possible that the County would make more minor changes to either or both schools boundaries. But then, you still have low diversity. This could apply to 1 and 2 as well, but in any case you are back to one of the two possibilities I raised.)
4. Both schools remain low diversity.
5. It is hard to see how the concept of boundaries changing (for example all lottery, or free for all) wouldn't lead to a lot of busing. And of course these fail the realistic requirement.

What's your point? That things might change, or they might stay the same?

You cut off the rest of the discussion where my point was quite clear.

Given the geography and demographics, there is no way that relatively minor boundary adjustment will lead to meaningful diversity at those schools. Therefore, MCPS will find it impossible to achieve their goal of simultaneously increasing diversity while avoiding long bus rides. Something will have to give and I don’t pretend to know which it will be.

If you believe that there is a way to add meaningful diversity to those schools without requiring significant busing, please explain how that could be accomplished.

[Anonymous]

27 pages doesn't seem like cliff notes to me.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This has to be a joke. Do you really not see how you have proven my point?

1. Then Churchill stays low diversity and Whitman doesn't.
2. The reverse
3. Both attain higher diversity through boundary changes that require busing. (It is also possible that the County would make more minor changes to either or both schools boundaries. But then, you still have low diversity. This could apply to 1 and 2 as well, but in any case you are back to one of the two possibilities I raised.)
4. Both schools remain low diversity.
5. It is hard to see how the concept of boundaries changing (for example all lottery, or free for all) wouldn't lead to a lot of busing. And of course these fail the realistic requirement.

What's your point? That things might change, or they might stay the same?

You cut off the rest of the discussion where my point was quite clear.

Given the geography and demographics, there is no way that relatively minor boundary adjustment will lead to meaningful diversity at those schools. Therefore, MCPS will find it impossible to achieve their goal of simultaneously increasing diversity while avoiding long bus rides. Something will have to give and I don’t pretend to know which it will be.

If you believe that there is a way to add meaningful diversity to those schools without requiring significant busing, please explain how that could be accomplished.

NP -- but I don't think they can or will make all schools equally diverse. I don't think they've said anywhere that that is the goal. They are looking at four factors - and diversity is one. Obviously there are logistical limitations to what they can do....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+100, and we are zoned for Einstein. I know my kid will do the same no matter which school he’s in. I’d hate
For my kid to be bussed across the county for the sake of diversity when he can already get that at his home schools, which he can walk to.

And they won't. Why do people keep insisting that this is in the cards. It's not.

It just happened in Clarksburg.

On Sept. 24, 2018, Montgomery County Board of Education (BOE) changed its Policy FAA, Educational Facilities
Planning to put student demographics (including racial/ethnic composition and FARMS rate) above all other factors
(including geographic proximity and facility utilization/overcrowding) in redistricting. Before, they were ranked
equally to balance the needs of families as well as the school system. (FARMS rate refers to the rate of students
receiving Free And Reduced-price Meals.)

On Nov. 26, 2019, BOE put this policy into practice and redrew school boundaries in Clarksburg and Germantown.
The option that 81.9% of the survey respondents in Clarksburg wanted sent Clarksburg students to
Clarksburg schools and Germantown students to Germantown schools. However, the Superintendent rejected this
and a similarly related option: “I am not able to support these options because they do not advance the
demographic characteristics of schools factor when evaluated from the FARMS population perspective.”
The option the Superintendent recommended and BOE adopted buses Clarksburg students to Germantown
and Germantown students to Clarksburg to balance out FARMS rates. Students will spend much longer time on the
bus than in the rejected plan above. Clearly, when redrawing school boundaries, FARMS rate trumps geography.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+100, and we are zoned for Einstein. I know my kid will do the same no matter which school he’s in. I’d hate
For my kid to be bussed across the county for the sake of diversity when he can already get that at his home schools, which he can walk to.

And they won't. Why do people keep insisting that this is in the cards. It's not.

It just happened in Clarksburg.

On Sept. 24, 2018, Montgomery County Board of Education (BOE) changed its Policy FAA, Educational Facilities
Planning to put student demographics (including racial/ethnic composition and FARMS rate) above all other factors
(including geographic proximity and facility utilization/overcrowding) in redistricting. Before, they were ranked
equally to balance the needs of families as well as the school system. (FARMS rate refers to the rate of students
receiving Free And Reduced-price Meals.)

On Nov. 26, 2019, BOE put this policy into practice and redrew school boundaries in Clarksburg and Germantown.
The option that 81.9% of the survey respondents in Clarksburg wanted sent Clarksburg students to
Clarksburg schools and Germantown students to Germantown schools. However, the Superintendent rejected this
and a similarly related option: “I am not able to support these options because they do not advance the
demographic characteristics of schools factor when evaluated from the FARMS population perspective.”
The option the Superintendent recommended and BOE adopted buses Clarksburg students to Germantown
and Germantown students to Clarksburg to balance out FARMS rates. Students will spend much longer time on the
bus than in the rejected plan above. Clearly, when redrawing school boundaries, FARMS rate trumps geography.

For the gazillionth time: No, it did NOT just happen in Clarksburg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+100, and we are zoned for Einstein. I know my kid will do the same no matter which school he’s in. I’d hate
For my kid to be bussed across the county for the sake of diversity when he can already get that at his home schools, which he can walk to.

And they won't. Why do people keep insisting that this is in the cards. It's not.

It just happened in Clarksburg.

On Sept. 24, 2018, Montgomery County Board of Education (BOE) changed its Policy FAA, Educational Facilities
Planning to put student demographics (including racial/ethnic composition and FARMS rate) above all other factors
(including geographic proximity and facility utilization/overcrowding) in redistricting. Before, they were ranked
equally to balance the needs of families as well as the school system. (FARMS rate refers to the rate of students
receiving Free And Reduced-price Meals.)

On Nov. 26, 2019, BOE put this policy into practice and redrew school boundaries in Clarksburg and Germantown.
The option that 81.9% of the survey respondents in Clarksburg wanted sent Clarksburg students to
Clarksburg schools and Germantown students to Germantown schools. However, the Superintendent rejected this
and a similarly related option: “I am not able to support these options because they do not advance the
demographic characteristics of schools factor when evaluated from the FARMS population perspective.”
The option the Superintendent recommended and BOE adopted buses Clarksburg students to Germantown
and Germantown students to Clarksburg to balance out FARMS rates. Students will spend much longer time on the
bus than in the rejected plan above. Clearly, when redrawing school boundaries, FARMS rate trumps geography.

this does not represent busing across the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+100, and we are zoned for Einstein. I know my kid will do the same no matter which school he’s in. I’d hate
For my kid to be bussed across the county for the sake of diversity when he can already get that at his home schools, which he can walk to.

And they won't. Why do people keep insisting that this is in the cards. It's not.

Sure, but what about places like Churchill and Whitman, where in order to make an impact on diversity, the student would need to be bused quite far?

MCPS IS NOT GOING TO REASSIGN KIDS TO SCHOOLS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COUNTY.

DP. But there will be no way to meaningfully diversity Whitman and Churchill without significant bus rides.

So, either MCPS will have to accept fairly segregated schools, notwithstanding their desire to diversify, or they will need to accept longer bus rides, notwithstanding their contention that that won’t happen.

No one knows which route they will choose yet. But they are both plausible possibilities.

Things MCPS hasn't said:

1. All schools must be diverse/diversified
2. Nobody will have longer bus rides than they do now

It's just astonishing, how many posters on DCUM already know what MCPS will do with the results of the analysis, when the analysis doesn't even have results yet, let alone MCPS follow-on actions. Enviable crystal balls they must have.

It's not astonishing, given the recent changes the BOE made to policy FAA, which made diversity the most important factor in determining school assignment.

It just happened in Clarksburg and Germantown. New boundaries have resulted in change of school assignment and longer bus rides for some students in order to better balance diversity.

On Sept. 24, 2018, Montgomery County Board of Education (BOE) changed its Policy FAA, Educational Facilities
Planning to put student demographics (including racial/ethnic composition and FARMS rate) above all other factors
(including geographic proximity and facility utilization/overcrowding) in redistricting. Before, they were ranked
equally to balance the needs of families as well as the school system. (FARMS rate refers to the rate of students
receiving Free And Reduced-price Meals.)

On Nov. 26, 2019, BOE put this policy into practice and redrew school boundaries in Clarksburg and Germantown.
The option that 81.9% of the survey respondents in Clarksburg wanted sent Clarksburg students to
Clarksburg schools and Germantown students to Germantown schools. However, the Superintendent rejected this
and a similarly related option: “I am not able to support these options because they do not advance the
demographic characteristics of schools factor when evaluated from the FARMS population perspective.”
The option the Superintendent recommended and BOE adopted buses Clarksburg students to Germantown
and Germantown students to Clarksburg to balance out FARMS rates. Students will spend much longer time on the
bus than in the rejected plan above. Clearly, when redrawing school boundaries, FARMS rate trumps geography.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This has to be a joke. Do you really not see how you have proven my point?

1. Then Churchill stays low diversity and Whitman doesn't.
2. The reverse
3. Both attain higher diversity through boundary changes that require busing. (It is also possible that the County would make more minor changes to either or both schools boundaries. But then, you still have low diversity. This could apply to 1 and 2 as well, but in any case you are back to one of the two possibilities I raised.)
4. Both schools remain low diversity.
5. It is hard to see how the concept of boundaries changing (for example all lottery, or free for all) wouldn't lead to a lot of busing. And of course these fail the realistic requirement.

What's your point? That things might change, or they might stay the same?

You cut off the rest of the discussion where my point was quite clear.

Given the geography and demographics, there is no way that relatively minor boundary adjustment will lead to meaningful diversity at those schools. Therefore, MCPS will find it impossible to achieve their goal of simultaneously increasing diversity while avoiding long bus rides. Something will have to give and I don’t pretend to know which it will be.

If you believe that there is a way to add meaningful diversity to those schools without requiring significant busing, please explain how that could be accomplished.

NP -- but I don't think they can or will make all schools equally diverse. I don't think they've said anywhere that that is the goal. They are looking at four factors - and diversity is one. Obviously there are logistical limitations to what they can do....

I agree, although I would say there is a difference between “meaningful diversity” and “equally diverse.”

There are examples of significant FARMS disparities among schools not too far from each other. Say one school is 80% FARMS and the other is 20%. If relatively minor border adjustments made it 60% and 40% that would make significant progress, although it still wouldn’t be equal. That’s more of what they seem to want to do.

Whitman and Churchill are both very low FARMS, I believe under 5%. If that could be raised to 20 or even 15%, that would be a meaningful change, even if that were still significantly lower than other schools and therefor nowhere near “equal”. But it won’t be easy to make even those modest improvements given geography and demographics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This has to be a joke. Do you really not see how you have proven my point?

1. Then Churchill stays low diversity and Whitman doesn't.
2. The reverse
3. Both attain higher diversity through boundary changes that require busing. (It is also possible that the County would make more minor changes to either or both schools boundaries. But then, you still have low diversity. This could apply to 1 and 2 as well, but in any case you are back to one of the two possibilities I raised.)
4. Both schools remain low diversity.
5. It is hard to see how the concept of boundaries changing (for example all lottery, or free for all) wouldn't lead to a lot of busing. And of course these fail the realistic requirement.

What's your point? That things might change, or they might stay the same?

You cut off the rest of the discussion where my point was quite clear.

Given the geography and demographics, there is no way that relatively minor boundary adjustment will lead to meaningful diversity at those schools. Therefore, MCPS will find it impossible to achieve their goal of simultaneously increasing diversity while avoiding long bus rides. Something will have to give and I don’t pretend to know which it will be.

If you believe that there is a way to add meaningful diversity to those schools without requiring significant busing, please explain how that could be accomplished.

NP -- but I don't think they can or will make all schools equally diverse. I don't think they've said anywhere that that is the goal. They are looking at four factors - and diversity is one. Obviously there are logistical limitations to what they can do....

I agree, although I would say there is a difference between “meaningful diversity” and “equally diverse.”

There are examples of significant FARMS disparities among schools not too far from each other. Say one school is 80% FARMS and the other is 20%. If relatively minor border adjustments made it 60% and 40% that would make significant progress, although it still wouldn’t be equal. That’s more of what they seem to want to do.

Whitman and Churchill are both very low FARMS, I believe under 5%. If that could be raised to 20 or even 15%, that would be a meaningful change, even if that were still significantly lower than other schools and therefor nowhere near “equal”. But it won’t be easy to make even those modest improvements given geography and demographics.

Which is why I don't think people should be panicking. Honestly. We live a very diverse area of the county and I am not that concerned because I think our area already represents what the county is trying to achieve. I don't believe the changes to Whitman and Churchill will be that dramatic because of logistical constraints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's not astonishing, given the recent changes the BOE made to policy FAA, which made diversity the most important factor in determining school assignment.

It just happened in Clarksburg and Germantown. New boundaries have resulted in change of school assignment and longer bus rides for some students in order to better balance diversity.

On Sept. 24, 2018, Montgomery County Board of Education (BOE) changed its Policy FAA, Educational Facilities
Planning to put student demographics (including racial/ethnic composition and FARMS rate) above all other factors
(including geographic proximity and facility utilization/overcrowding) in redistricting. Before, they were ranked
equally to balance the needs of families as well as the school system. (FARMS rate refers to the rate of students
receiving Free And Reduced-price Meals.)

On Nov. 26, 2019, BOE put this policy into practice and redrew school boundaries in Clarksburg and Germantown.
The option that 81.9% of the survey respondents in Clarksburg wanted sent Clarksburg students to
Clarksburg schools and Germantown students to Germantown schools. However, the Superintendent rejected this
and a similarly related option: “I am not able to support these options because they do not advance the
demographic characteristics of schools factor when evaluated from the FARMS population perspective.”
The option the Superintendent recommended and BOE adopted buses Clarksburg students to Germantown
and Germantown students to Clarksburg to balance out FARMS rates. Students will spend much longer time on the
bus than in the rejected plan above. Clearly, when redrawing school boundaries, FARMS rate trumps geography.

No matter how much some people in Cabin Branch may yell about it, the facts are:

1. The upcounty boundary changes were based on ALL FOUR FACTORS, not just demographics.
2. Southern Clarksburg to northern Germantown just simply is not "busing across the county."
3. Zero walkers from the Clarksburg cluster got reassigned to be Seneca Valley cluster bus-riders.
4. Policy FAA does NOT say that demographics is the most important factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This has to be a joke. Do you really not see how you have proven my point?

1. Then Churchill stays low diversity and Whitman doesn't.
2. The reverse
3. Both attain higher diversity through boundary changes that require busing. (It is also possible that the County would make more minor changes to either or both schools boundaries. But then, you still have low diversity. This could apply to 1 and 2 as well, but in any case you are back to one of the two possibilities I raised.)
4. Both schools remain low diversity.
5. It is hard to see how the concept of boundaries changing (for example all lottery, or free for all) wouldn't lead to a lot of busing. And of course these fail the realistic requirement.

What's your point? That things might change, or they might stay the same?

You cut off the rest of the discussion where my point was quite clear.

Given the geography and demographics, there is no way that relatively minor boundary adjustment will lead to meaningful diversity at those schools. Therefore, MCPS will find it impossible to achieve their goal of simultaneously increasing diversity while avoiding long bus rides. Something will have to give and I don’t pretend to know which it will be.

If you believe that there is a way to add meaningful diversity to those schools without requiring significant busing, please explain how that could be accomplished.

NP -- but I don't think they can or will make all schools equally diverse. I don't think they've said anywhere that that is the goal. They are looking at four factors - and diversity is one. Obviously there are logistical limitations to what they can do....

I agree, although I would say there is a difference between “meaningful diversity” and “equally diverse.”

There are examples of significant FARMS disparities among schools not too far from each other. Say one school is 80% FARMS and the other is 20%. If relatively minor border adjustments made it 60% and 40% that would make significant progress, although it still wouldn’t be equal. That’s more of what they seem to want to do.

Whitman and Churchill are both very low FARMS, I believe under 5%. If that could be raised to 20 or even 15%, that would be a meaningful change, even if that were still significantly lower than other schools and therefor nowhere near “equal”. But it won’t be easy to make even those modest improvements given geography and demographics.

Which is why I don't think people should be panicking. Honestly. We live a very diverse area of the county and I am not that concerned because I think our area already represents what the county is trying to achieve. I don't believe the changes to Whitman and Churchill will be that dramatic because of logistical constraints.

That’s certainly possible.

But, say they can get the rest of the clusters to between 35 and 65% - not equal but not huge disparities. Would they really allow one or two clusters to be such tremendous outliers? Or would they say, we have been able to avoid significant busing in almost all circumstances, but these are the one or two places where it is the only way to bring FARMS rates to at least 15 or 20%, so there are not pockets of nothing but privilege?

Either seems entirely plausible. So, I agree that there is no need for folks to panic, I don’t think it is crazy for people to believe those sort of changes are plausible, at least for some people.

[Anonymous]

It's "Cliff's Notes"...not Cliff Notes. They were started by Mr. Clifton Hillegrass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not astonishing, given the recent changes the BOE made to policy FAA, which made diversity the most important factor in determining school assignment.

It just happened in Clarksburg and Germantown. New boundaries have resulted in change of school assignment and longer bus rides for some students in order to better balance diversity.

On Sept. 24, 2018, Montgomery County Board of Education (BOE) changed its Policy FAA, Educational Facilities
Planning to put student demographics (including racial/ethnic composition and FARMS rate) above all other factors
(including geographic proximity and facility utilization/overcrowding) in redistricting. Before, they were ranked
equally to balance the needs of families as well as the school system. (FARMS rate refers to the rate of students
receiving Free And Reduced-price Meals.)

On Nov. 26, 2019, BOE put this policy into practice and redrew school boundaries in Clarksburg and Germantown.
The option that 81.9% of the survey respondents in Clarksburg wanted sent Clarksburg students to
Clarksburg schools and Germantown students to Germantown schools. However, the Superintendent rejected this
and a similarly related option: “I am not able to support these options because they do not advance the
demographic characteristics of schools factor when evaluated from the FARMS population perspective.”
The option the Superintendent recommended and BOE adopted buses Clarksburg students to Germantown
and Germantown students to Clarksburg to balance out FARMS rates. Students will spend much longer time on the
bus than in the rejected plan above. Clearly, when redrawing school boundaries, FARMS rate trumps geography.

No matter how much some people in Cabin Branch may yell about it, the facts are:

1. The upcounty boundary changes were based on ALL FOUR FACTORS, not just demographics.
2. Southern Clarksburg to northern Germantown just simply is not "busing across the county."
3. Zero walkers from the Clarksburg cluster got reassigned to be Seneca Valley cluster bus-riders.
4. Policy FAA does NOT say that demographics is the most important factor.

When the BOE added the word "especially" to policy FAA, it put the heaviest weight on demographics.

From policy FAA:
Demographic characteristics of student population
Analyses of options take into account the impact of various options on the
overall populations of affected schools. Options should especially strive to
create a diverse student body in each of the affected schools in alignment
with Board Policy ACD, Quality Integrated Education. Demographic data
showing the impact of various options include the following: racial/ethnic
composition of the student population, the socioeconomic composition of
the student population, the level of English language learners, and other
reliable demographic indicators and participation in specific educational
programs

An interesting discussion by the BOE on the implications of adding the word "especially" can be seen at the April 12, 2018 BOE meeting, around 45 minutes in:

https://mcpsmd.new.swagit.com/videos/20635?fbclid=IwAR3sFNjrzCOXlaiWKlKqMxuuCbLWC4lh_EimLEHL0Zxf-dZL8rMMH-NdDhc#60

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

When the BOE added the word "especially" to policy FAA, it put the heaviest weight on demographics.

From policy FAA:
Demographic characteristics of student population
Analyses of options take into account the impact of various options on the
overall populations of affected schools. Options should especially strive to
create a diverse student body in each of the affected schools in alignment
with Board Policy ACD, Quality Integrated Education. Demographic data
showing the impact of various options include the following: racial/ethnic
composition of the student population, the socioeconomic composition of
the student population, the level of English language learners, and other
reliable demographic indicators and participation in specific educational
programs

An interesting discussion by the BOE on the implications of adding the word "especially" can be seen at the April 12, 2018 BOE meeting, around 45 minutes in:

https://mcpsmd.new.swagit.com/videos/20635?fbclid=IwAR3sFNjrzCOXlaiWKlKqMxuuCbLWC4lh_EimLEHL0Zxf-dZL8rMMH-NdDhc#60

No, it didn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not astonishing, given the recent changes the BOE made to policy FAA, which made diversity the most important factor in determining school assignment.

It just happened in Clarksburg and Germantown. New boundaries have resulted in change of school assignment and longer bus rides for some students in order to better balance diversity.

On Sept. 24, 2018, Montgomery County Board of Education (BOE) changed its Policy FAA, Educational Facilities
Planning to put student demographics (including racial/ethnic composition and FARMS rate) above all other factors
(including geographic proximity and facility utilization/overcrowding) in redistricting. Before, they were ranked
equally to balance the needs of families as well as the school system. (FARMS rate refers to the rate of students
receiving Free And Reduced-price Meals.)

On Nov. 26, 2019, BOE put this policy into practice and redrew school boundaries in Clarksburg and Germantown.
The option that 81.9% of the survey respondents in Clarksburg wanted sent Clarksburg students to
Clarksburg schools and Germantown students to Germantown schools. However, the Superintendent rejected this
and a similarly related option: “I am not able to support these options because they do not advance the
demographic characteristics of schools factor when evaluated from the FARMS population perspective.”
The option the Superintendent recommended and BOE adopted buses Clarksburg students to Germantown
and Germantown students to Clarksburg to balance out FARMS rates. Students will spend much longer time on the
bus than in the rejected plan above. Clearly, when redrawing school boundaries, FARMS rate trumps geography.

No matter how much some people in Cabin Branch may yell about it, the facts are:

1. The upcounty boundary changes were based on ALL FOUR FACTORS, not just demographics.
2. Southern Clarksburg to northern Germantown just simply is not "busing across the county."
3. Zero walkers from the Clarksburg cluster got reassigned to be Seneca Valley cluster bus-riders.
4. Policy FAA does NOT say that demographics is the most important factor.

When the BOE added the word "especially" to policy FAA, it put the heaviest weight on demographics.

From policy FAA:
Demographic characteristics of student population
Analyses of options take into account the impact of various options on the
overall populations of affected schools. Options should especially strive to
create a diverse student body in each of the affected schools in alignment
with Board Policy ACD, Quality Integrated Education. Demographic data
showing the impact of various options include the following: racial/ethnic
composition of the student population, the socioeconomic composition of
the student population, the level of English language learners, and other
reliable demographic indicators and participation in specific educational
programs

An interesting discussion by the BOE on the implications of adding the word "especially" can be seen at the April 12, 2018 BOE meeting, around 45 minutes in:

https://mcpsmd.new.swagit.com/videos/20635?fbclid=IwAR3sFNjrzCOXlaiWKlKqMxuuCbLWC4lh_EimLEHL0Zxf-dZL8rMMH-NdDhc#60

Words have meanings!