Who did you think killed JonBenet?

[Anonymous]

Like I said earlier I am starting to think Patsy placed the body in the cellar as a temporary holding location... If she had accidently hit JB in a rage and the bloody mucus was dripping from her nose/mouth she thought she had killed her. How would she explain it to her husband? She panics. The sheets were placed in the laundry, right? It would only be logical to change your party outfit and toss it in the laundry hamper since you are leaving town early the next morning. She wrote the note and possibly planned to dispose of the body after she had thought things thru either on their way to the airport or before John awoke or maybe they would return home and find the body after flying back as planned- ransom never received or ransom received but still harmed. She would in that case have never expected to have the house searched that morning and it was an out of the way location. She was a caring mom I believe but possibly overwhelmed with the holiday, her illness, the stress of two children needing her and having to pack for the trip, get the kids to bed, get up early, get to the plane etc... The wetting of the bed could have simply set her off with so many other matters weighing on her mind. She likely felt awful about what had happened but worried about how to explain it all and like Susan Smith (poor example as I don't know if she ever appeared caring or loving) had to blame someone else thus the ransom letter. She never meant to harm that child I bet and because of that she flew into protect self mode. Staged the scene and by the time she was finished it was morning and she knew John would be up soon. Has it ever been said if he confirmed that she slept in the bed with him that night?


He had lost a child previously so I can't see him staging unless he snapped in a moment and Patsy wrote the note to cover for him.

I think it was one or the other. I can't see both being present for the skull hit or else the first reaction would've been to cal 9-1-1. If it was the child that cracked the skull and a parent discovered her.. I still think 9-1-1 would be called and it could be innocently explained as he pushed her accidently .. Just can't see staging for a child caused accident since being a wealthy couple their son would've been easily let off the hook and believed. Now-- a parent caused accident would be different.

Key points would be -- what does Burke know? Did Patsy join John in bed? Was he wearing the night before's clothing also?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like I said earlier I am starting to think Patsy placed the body in the cellar as a temporary holding location... If she had accidently hit JB in a rage and the bloody mucus was dripping from her nose/mouth she thought she had killed her. How would she explain it to her husband? She panics. The sheets were placed in the laundry, right? It would only be logical to change your party outfit and toss it in the laundry hamper since you are leaving town early the next morning. She wrote the note and possibly planned to dispose of the body after she had thought things thru either on their way to the airport or before John awoke or maybe they would return home and find the body after flying back as planned- ransom never received or ransom received but still harmed. She would in that case have never expected to have the house searched that morning and it was an out of the way location. She was a caring mom I believe but possibly overwhelmed with the holiday, her illness, the stress of two children needing her and having to pack for the trip, get the kids to bed, get up early, get to the plane etc... The wetting of the bed could have simply set her off with so many other matters weighing on her mind. She likely felt awful about what had happened but worried about how to explain it all and like Susan Smith (poor example as I don't know if she ever appeared caring or loving) had to blame someone else thus the ransom letter. She never meant to harm that child I bet and because of that she flew into protect self mode. Staged the scene and by the time she was finished it was morning and she knew John would be up soon. Has it ever been said if he confirmed that she slept in the bed with him that night?


He had lost a child previously so I can't see him staging unless he snapped in a moment and Patsy wrote the note to cover for him.

I think it was one or the other. I can't see both being present for the skull hit or else the first reaction would've been to cal 9-1-1. If it was the child that cracked the skull and a parent discovered her.. I still think 9-1-1 would be called and it could be innocently explained as he pushed her accidently .. Just can't see staging for a child caused accident since being a wealthy couple their son would've been easily let off the hook and believed. Now-- a parent caused accident would be different.

Key points would be -- what does Burke know? Did Patsy join John in bed? Was he wearing the night before's clothing also?

John, the husband, had taken a shower and was changed. I agree in part with your theory, but, crucial hole - 1. how would she have dealt with the body on the way to the airport? her husband is going to notice JB is not there and they aren't leaving without her nor are they leaving if she is missing. 2. WHY WOULD HE COVER FOR HER? The husband had to know she wrote that note, was in a frenzy, and most likely heard something that night.
Other things that are odd to me, that don't fit in any theory:

her room was a bomb as was the bathroom - it seems there is some support that she was hit in the head in the bathroom and carried down the stairs because artificial trim from the stairs was all tangled in her hair. BUT, it also seems that the consensus is that the injury was done with the flashlight. Which was most likely in the kitchen. So, that whole thing isn't clear. I also just don't get not calling 911 after the head injury. How would they know she was dead? Accidents do happen, couldn't they have said she fell?

Either way, there is no getting around that ransom note. It seems everyone agrees that she wrote that.

[Anonymous]

Ah. I just realized that there is proof that Patsy washes her make up off at night. Look at the picture of Patsy on Christmas morning with JonBenet. She looks so different w/o a trace of make up on.

We're supposed to believe that she showered, put her makeup on, did her hair and then threw old clothes on. Nope. That didn't happen.

[Anonymous]

So how does Patsy calling 911 fit into the timeline? Why would she call 911 before getting rid of the body, if that was the plan?

[Anonymous]

The ransom note is so dramatic too, and she was a big drama/pageant person. She seemed prone to big displays, like over the top decoratiosn for the holidays, decorating, etc. So I totally buy the whole staged thing. But why? She had never hit the kids before, and the first time she does, its hard enough to kill JB/crack her skull? And so then she goes ahead and strangles her? I do not see how that fits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I've never read anything about how this plays into the theories. Elaborate.

"which would explain the encocropesis that is made so much of in all of the theories."

A lot of people have pointed to the fact that Burke had accidents frequently and did some odd poop play as evidence of his sexual abuse and general perversion/oddity. Kids with ASD are way more likely to have chronic constipation and have accidents.

Compared to whom and according to whom?

Compared to neurotypical children and according to every doctor or research person that works with children with autism. See, as one of thousands of examples, http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0300443032000079069. Kids with neurological conditions generally have low tone with causes issues with bowel movements. Seriously, though, this is not a peer review board, stop demanding a citation for noncontroversial statements. Also, google is your friend if you are really interested.

I'm not the poster asking about Burke, but please stop posting crap about people on the spectrum. What you said is not true and the article you cited, says that "No data for children on the spectrum were found in the literature search, and indeed very little research related to this topic..."

Yeah, kids on the spectrum can have communication or behavioral issues that make them difficult to potty train, but stop making sweeping generalizations about autism.

DP. Ugh. Please stop, guys. No one is going to post any theories if they have to back up everything with sources and constantly worry about who might take things the wrong way and be offended.

A theory is a theory. Everything about the Ramsay murder is speculative b/c we don't know. However, don't state things as part of a theory that are factually untrue. For example, Jenny McCarthy did this for years about vaccines causing autism, which is untrue, but many, many people still believe it.

Facts are facts. Stick to them.

It is indeed a well established fact that children with autism and other neurological issues are more likely to have encopresis and toilet training issues. I am not sure what objection you have to accepting basic facts, but lets take a look:

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01058155
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891422208001753 - noting specifically, Children and adults with developmental disabilities are more likely to evince encopresis, soiling and constipation than the general population. This set of related behaviors can produce a great deal of stress and can be a major restriction in independent living.

Also, from several know autism sites:
http://www.autism-help.org/behavior-soiling-encopresis.htm
http://www.myaspergerschild.com/2011/07/aspergers-children-and-encopresis.html
http://www.airpnetwork.org/atf/cf/%7B21E91B8F-D0F9-424E-8242-C281E1B81562%7D/guide_for_managing_constipation.pdf

Not according to the scientific literature. The first two links are the same article. And there a bazillion "known" autism sites; some that recommend chelation and bio-med treatments. That's not proof or facts.

I just went on google scholar and saw hundreds of articles. My son has ASD and our dev ped and all of the specialists we have seen have told us this. There is a section of Children's dedicated to these issues and they have told me almost all patients have ASD or other condition. I am done discussing this with you, I do not know what level of proof you think is required for something to be established but I am guessing you would be a defense lawyer's dream. [/quote

Where is the proof Burke had ASD? Can someone post where that is coming from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So how does Patsy calling 911 fit into the timeline? Why would she call 911 before getting rid of the body, if that was the plan?

I don't know, it makes no sense. I guess she really didn't have time - they could not cancel the flight without looking suspicious, I guess. They couldn't leave after getting the ransom note, or fake finding it. It would have been so suspicious for her to leave during the night and she probably had no idea where to take it. I don't know - it all seems so odd. If the dad did not know about it, do you think he would have gone along with it? All reports say that they did not talk at all that day. The dad would have recognized her handwriting/the statements in the note, which were religious and apparenyly the phrase "Don't try to grow a brain, John!" which people said was something Patsy would always say. But why would she write such a long note indirectly incriminating herself? It is seriously all SO odd. Then there is the fact that Burke was awake during the 911 call, which they lied about, and they sent him away to a friend's house w/o telling him what was going on and he did not ask any questions - like why aren't we leaving, etc. My 4 year old would not do that. That part makes no sense. And why wouldn't they be waking him up, asking him to look, if she said anything, etc.? Does not add up. It is such a weird mystery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ransom note is so dramatic too, and she was a big drama/pageant person. She seemed prone to big displays, like over the top decoratiosn for the holidays, decorating, etc. So I totally buy the whole staged thing. But why? She had never hit the kids before, and the first time she does, its hard enough to kill JB/crack her skull? And so then she goes ahead and strangles her? I do not see how that fits.

Burke was blamed for hitting his sister with the golf club but maybe he wasn't the one that did that,..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ransom note is so dramatic too, and she was a big drama/pageant person. She seemed prone to big displays, like over the top decoratiosn for the holidays, decorating, etc. So I totally buy the whole staged thing. But why? She had never hit the kids before, and the first time she does, its hard enough to kill JB/crack her skull? And so then she goes ahead and strangles her? I do not see how that fits.

Burke was blamed for hitting his sister with the golf club but maybe he wasn't the one that did that,..

that's true - but don't you think he would say something? why would he have covered for his mom all this time? and why would the dad had covered for her if he truly thought she murdered strangled and sexually assaulted their 6 year old???? He must have been involved in some way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ransom note is so dramatic too, and she was a big drama/pageant person. She seemed prone to big displays, like over the top decoratiosn for the holidays, decorating, etc. So I totally buy the whole staged thing. But why? She had never hit the kids before, and the first time she does, its hard enough to kill JB/crack her skull? And so then she goes ahead and strangles her? I do not see how that fits.

Burke was blamed for hitting his sister with the golf club but maybe he wasn't the one that did that,..

that's true - but don't you think he would say something? why would he have covered for his mom all this time? and why would the dad had covered for her if he truly thought she murdered strangled and sexually assaulted their 6 year old???? He must have been involved in some way.

I guess if they told him over and over again that that is the way it happened, over time he might start remembering it that way.

It'll be interesting to see the Doctor Phil interview. I saw an old interview with John on Youtube (Anderson Cooper I think) and John said that Burke had seen psychiatrist/s since losing his sister in such a horrific way. The psychiatrist/s assured him that kids have a way of compartmentalizing these things, putting them into a box in their brain and moving on. That Burke would be o.k.

I wonder how "safe" it was for Burke to talk about this in his own words over the years. It'll be interesting to hear what he has to say to Dr Phil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like I said earlier I am starting to think Patsy placed the body in the cellar as a temporary holding location... If she had accidently hit JB in a rage and the bloody mucus was dripping from her nose/mouth she thought she had killed her. How would she explain it to her husband? She panics. The sheets were placed in the laundry, right? It would only be logical to change your party outfit and toss it in the laundry hamper since you are leaving town early the next morning. She wrote the note and possibly planned to dispose of the body after she had thought things thru either on their way to the airport or before John awoke or maybe they would return home and find the body after flying back as planned- ransom never received or ransom received but still harmed. She would in that case have never expected to have the house searched that morning and it was an out of the way location. She was a caring mom I believe but possibly overwhelmed with the holiday, her illness, the stress of two children needing her and having to pack for the trip, get the kids to bed, get up early, get to the plane etc... The wetting of the bed could have simply set her off with so many other matters weighing on her mind. She likely felt awful about what had happened but worried about how to explain it all and like Susan Smith (poor example as I don't know if she ever appeared caring or loving) had to blame someone else thus the ransom letter. She never meant to harm that child I bet and because of that she flew into protect self mode. Staged the scene and by the time she was finished it was morning and she knew John would be up soon. Has it ever been said if he confirmed that she slept in the bed with him that night?


He had lost a child previously so I can't see him staging unless he snapped in a moment and Patsy wrote the note to cover for him.

I think it was one or the other. I can't see both being present for the skull hit or else the first reaction would've been to cal 9-1-1. If it was the child that cracked the skull and a parent discovered her.. I still think 9-1-1 would be called and it could be innocently explained as he pushed her accidently .. Just can't see staging for a child caused accident since being a wealthy couple their son would've been easily let off the hook and believed. Now-- a parent caused accident would be different.

Key points would be -- what does Burke know? Did Patsy join John in bed? Was he wearing the night before's clothing also?

John, the husband, had taken a shower and was changed. I agree in part with your theory, but, crucial hole - 1. how would she have dealt with the body on the way to the airport? her husband is going to notice JB is not there and they aren't leaving without her nor are they leaving if she is missing. 2. WHY WOULD HE COVER FOR HER? The husband had to know she wrote that note, was in a frenzy, and most likely heard something that night.
Other things that are odd to me, that don't fit in any theory:

her room was a bomb as was the bathroom - it seems there is some support that she was hit in the head in the bathroom and carried down the stairs because artificial trim from the stairs was all tangled in her hair. BUT, it also seems that the consensus is that the injury was done with the flashlight. Which was most likely in the kitchen. So, that whole thing isn't clear. I also just don't get not calling 911 after the head injury. How would they know she was dead? Accidents do happen, couldn't they have said she fell?

Either way, there is no getting around that ransom note. It seems everyone agrees that she wrote that.

Possibly she thought he would wake first and find the ransom note. They would call police but need to leave to get to their plane for the trip. Meanwhile leaving the body behind and when they return due to not Paying ransom or whatnot they find the body as if the killer had broken back in or hidden in the home etc...

[Anonymous]

Possibly she thought he would wake first and find the ransom note. They would call police but need to leave to get to their plane for the trip. Meanwhile leaving the body behind and when they return due to not Paying ransom or whatnot they find the body as if the killer had broken back in or hidden in the home etc...

But no way are they leaving on the trip if their daughter is not with them. The police would not let them and how would that look?? And they could pay the ransom, so they would have to look like they were going to pay it. Also the fact that they did not follow the ransom note at all is telling. I do not see how they were not prosecuted. They were even indicted by a grand jury!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does Patsy calling 911 fit into the timeline? Why would she call 911 before getting rid of the body, if that was the plan?

I don't know, it makes no sense. I guess she really didn't have time - they could not cancel the flight without looking suspicious, I guess. They couldn't leave after getting the ransom note, or fake finding it. It would have been so suspicious for her to leave during the night and she probably had no idea where to take it. I don't know - it all seems so odd. If the dad did not know about it, do you think he would have gone along with it? All reports say that they did not talk at all that day. The dad would have recognized her handwriting/the statements in the note, which were religious and apparenyly the phrase "Don't try to grow a brain, John!" which people said was something Patsy would always say. But why would she write such a long note indirectly incriminating herself? It is seriously all SO odd. Then there is the fact that Burke was awake during the 911 call, which they lied about, and they sent him away to a friend's house w/o telling him what was going on and he did not ask any questions - like why aren't we leaving, etc. My 4 year old would not do that. That part makes no sense. And why wouldn't they be waking him up, asking him to look, if she said anything, etc.? Does not add up. It is such a weird mystery.

Maybe they (he?she?) thought that the police would come, search the house but not notice the body. At some point John called his pilot on the phone and began making plans to fly out that afternoon but the police stopped him and said that he and Patsy couldn't leave.

I'm wondering if the initial plan was for John to go downstairs to get suitcases in preparation for their flight and he would "find" JonBenet, bring her upstairs and have Patsy fall over her daughter's body. That way when the police did forensics on the body there would be a reason for both parents' dna/fibers/hair to be on the body (it would also explain why Patsy continued to wear the outfit from the night before).

When the police forbid them to leave John then took the opportunity to find his daughter's body when the female detective asked him to look for things out of place in the house. John carried his daughter upstairs, a distraught Patsy fell on her body....

[Anonymous]

Missing the time for the ransom kidnappers call without notice is also a clue... Could they both have known then? does that mean they knew they didn't have real kidnappers to contend with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Missing the time for the ransom kidnappers call without notice is also a clue... Could they both have known then? does that mean they knew they didn't have real kidnappers to contend with?

Yes I think they both had to have known. They just must have. There's no other explanation really. But why? Why would she do it, why would he cover for her? Why on earth would they strangle her when she had just been hit in the head? I think that's why a couple of detectives arrived at the Burke theory.