I don't get Atheism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're spending a lot of time discussing undefined terms, although a few posters have addressed the issue of definition.

OP seems to use "Atheist" (never "atheist") to mean someone who is outspokenly, or aggressively, a denier of God. There are such atheists, and there are many who believe there is no God, but don't feel they need to spread that belief, and there are many who simply have no belief in God without any particular opinion about non-existence. Worst of all, to my admittedly nit-picking mind, are those who think atheists are "athiests",

As to agnostics, some use the term in its technical sense of denying the possibility of proving either the existence or on-existence of God. Others use it For people who have not made up their minds one way or the other. Some use it because they don't believe, but don't like the term "atheist". OP seems to think an agnostic is someone who vacillates between belief and non-belief.

OP, I think you should think of yourself as a Christian agnostic (In the not sure sense), and accept that your views may possibly change and/or may not fit any precise terminology. And please drop the A that implies that we atheists are some kind of godless Church.

I have met atheists who talk openly of their atheism but have never met one who tried to spread their belief -- the way Christians often do, in terms of inviting people who have not expressed interest to church and telling people that they need salvation in order to avoid hell. I'm afraid these days just saying "I'm an atheist" is perceived as spreading atheism, when the same simple affirmation would not be perceived that way for other beliefs or points of view -- e.g. I'm a Christian, I'm a Jew, I'm a democrat, I'm a vegetarian. People aren't used to atheists simply stating their position so instead take it as spreading their beliefs.

[Anonymous]

The only people I saw openly prosletising were Jehova's Witnesses. Even Mormons didn't seem intrusive at all. I guess I don't get into those types of conversations with casual acquaintances, because frankly, I have no idea who's religious and who's not. People occasionally mention going to church, but I have never been offered to be saved or find Jesus LOL

[Anonymous]

I'm agnostic because I don't care enough to be an atheist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only people I saw openly prosletising were Jehova's Witnesses. Even Mormons didn't seem intrusive at all. I guess I don't get into those types of conversations with casual acquaintances, because frankly, I have no idea who's religious and who's not. People occasionally mention going to church, but I have never been offered to be saved or find Jesus LOL

Imagine if an atheist or even agnostic president would get elected. If you can't imagine that, that's the reason why atheists feel that religion intrude too much into our lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only people I saw openly prosletising were Jehova's Witnesses. Even Mormons didn't seem intrusive at all. I guess I don't get into those types of conversations with casual acquaintances, because frankly, I have no idea who's religious and who's not. People occasionally mention going to church, but I have never been offered to be saved or find Jesus LOL

Imagine if an atheist or even agnostic president would get elected. If you can't imagine that, that's the reason why atheists feel that religion intrude too much into our lives.

You mean a president who doesn't hidet his true convictions to get elected? I think you'd be surprised how many closet atheists and agnostics are among us.

Religion in state matters has been a tradition for way too long to be completely eliminated in a couple of generations. On the personal level, you can decide how much religion to have in your life. Most people don't see it as a problem. But then you get people who see everything as a problem and make it their mission to intrude on others' lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only people I saw openly prosletising were Jehova's Witnesses. Even Mormons didn't seem intrusive at all. I guess I don't get into those types of conversations with casual acquaintances, because frankly, I have no idea who's religious and who's not. People occasionally mention going to church, but I have never been offered to be saved or find Jesus LOL

Imagine if an atheist or even agnostic president would get elected. If you can't imagine that, that's the reason why atheists feel that religion intrude too much into our lives.

I think it was actually more common in the past than it is now. Jefferson, for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only people I saw openly prosletising were Jehova's Witnesses. Even Mormons didn't seem intrusive at all. I guess I don't get into those types of conversations with casual acquaintances, because frankly, I have no idea who's religious and who's not. People occasionally mention going to church, but I have never been offered to be saved or find Jesus LOL

Imagine if an atheist or even agnostic president would get elected. If you can't imagine that, that's the reason why atheists feel that religion intrude too much into our lives.

You mean a president who doesn't hidet his true convictions to get elected? I think you'd be surprised how many closet atheists and agnostics are among us.

Religion in state matters has been a tradition for way too long to be completely eliminated in a couple of generations. On the personal level, you can decide how much religion to have in your life. Most people don't see it as a problem. But then you get people who see everything as a problem and make it their mission to intrude on others' lives.

Of course, that's what I mean. It isn't logical to me that otherwise competent, rational, and intelligent people who are the products of a contemporary education, still truly believes in God. I am not aware of a single atheist in congress. The only explanation is that as you say, many politicians are closet atheists. The fact that they hide behind a false facade of religious belief speaks to how intolerant the general public is of atheism.

I don't care what people choose to believe in their private lives, but when their private beliefs affect the quality of publicly elected officials, then it is them who have intruded into my life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only people I saw openly prosletising were Jehova's Witnesses. Even Mormons didn't seem intrusive at all. I guess I don't get into those types of conversations with casual acquaintances, because frankly, I have no idea who's religious and who's not. People occasionally mention going to church, but I have never been offered to be saved or find Jesus LOL

Imagine if an atheist or even agnostic president would get elected. If you can't imagine that, that's the reason why atheists feel that religion intrude too much into our lives.

I think it was actually more common in the past than it is now. Jefferson, for example.

Jefferson was not an atheist. He wasn't even agnostic. He was at the very least a deist with strong Christian ties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only people I saw openly prosletising were Jehova's Witnesses. Even Mormons didn't seem intrusive at all. I guess I don't get into those types of conversations with casual acquaintances, because frankly, I have no idea who's religious and who's not. People occasionally mention going to church, but I have never been offered to be saved or find Jesus LOL

Imagine if an atheist or even agnostic president would get elected. If you can't imagine that, that's the reason why atheists feel that religion intrude too much into our lives.

I think it was actually more common in the past than it is now. Jefferson, for example.

Jefferson was not an atheist. He wasn't even agnostic. He was at the very least a deist with strong Christian ties.

And could you imagine someone who created the Jefferson Bible being elected today?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only people I saw openly prosletising were Jehova's Witnesses. Even Mormons didn't seem intrusive at all. I guess I don't get into those types of conversations with casual acquaintances, because frankly, I have no idea who's religious and who's not. People occasionally mention going to church, but I have never been offered to be saved or find Jesus LOL

Imagine if an atheist or even agnostic president would get elected. If you can't imagine that, that's the reason why atheists feel that religion intrude too much into our lives.

You mean a president who doesn't hidet his true convictions to get elected? I think you'd be surprised how many closet atheists and agnostics are among us.

Religion in state matters has been a tradition for way too long to be completely eliminated in a couple of generations. On the personal level, you can decide how much religion to have in your life. Most people don't see it as a problem. But then you get people who see everything as a problem and make it their mission to intrude on others' lives.

Of course, that's what I mean. It isn't logical to me that otherwise competent, rational, and intelligent people who are the products of a contemporary education, still truly believes in God. I am not aware of a single atheist in congress. The only explanation is that as you say, many politicians are closet atheists. The fact that they hide behind a false facade of religious belief speaks to how intolerant the general public is of atheism.

I don't care what people choose to believe in their private lives, but when their private beliefs affect the quality of publicly elected officials, then it is them who have intruded into my life.

Damn. All this time believing in God and I thought I, too, was competent, rational , and intelligent. Guess not!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only people I saw openly prosletising were Jehova's Witnesses. Even Mormons didn't seem intrusive at all. I guess I don't get into those types of conversations with casual acquaintances, because frankly, I have no idea who's religious and who's not. People occasionally mention going to church, but I have never been offered to be saved or find Jesus LOL

Imagine if an atheist or even agnostic president would get elected. If you can't imagine that, that's the reason why atheists feel that religion intrude too much into our lives.

I think it was actually more common in the past than it is now. Jefferson, for example.

Jefferson was not an atheist. He wasn't even agnostic. He was at the very least a deist with strong Christian ties.

He was a deist who cut out all the miracle stories from the new testament to hear the clear words of Jesus of Nazareth. It's known as the Jefferson Bible - a very slim volume, that can be purchased in bookstores and the original was on display at the Smithsonian a few years ago.

and he said this: "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823, quoted from James A Haught, "Breaking the Last Taboo" (1996)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only people I saw openly prosletising were Jehova's Witnesses. Even Mormons didn't seem intrusive at all. I guess I don't get into those types of conversations with casual acquaintances, because frankly, I have no idea who's religious and who's not. People occasionally mention going to church, but I have never been offered to be saved or find Jesus LOL

Imagine if an atheist or even agnostic president would get elected. If you can't imagine that, that's the reason why atheists feel that religion intrude too much into our lives.

You mean a president who doesn't hidet his true convictions to get elected? I think you'd be surprised how many closet atheists and agnostics are among us.

Religion in state matters has been a tradition for way too long to be completely eliminated in a couple of generations. On the personal level, you can decide how much religion to have in your life. Most people don't see it as a problem. But then you get people who see everything as a problem and make it their mission to intrude on others' lives.

Of course, that's what I mean. It isn't logical to me that otherwise competent, rational, and intelligent people who are the products of a contemporary education, still truly believes in God. I am not aware of a single atheist in congress. The only explanation is that as you say, many politicians are closet atheists. The fact that they hide behind a false facade of religious belief speaks to how intolerant the general public is of atheism.

I don't care what people choose to believe in their private lives, but when their private beliefs affect the quality of publicly elected officials, then it is them who have intruded into my life.

I don't think the general public is intolerant of atheism. It may (perhaps, erroneously) equate the lack of traditional religious beliefs with the lack of morals. Or it may be weary of the militant kind who seek to forcefully break with traditions near and dear to some hearts. I hope by "truly believes in God" you mean "takes the teachings 100% literally," because there are plenty of rational, highly intelligent, and well-educated people who do not subscribe to the teachings of materialism and atheism.

The quality of public officials is not determined by their faith or lack of it. As a democracy, we are doomed to being ruled by the worst representatives of our society. We have zero chance to change human nature (which is another reason to doubt that humans are the pinnacle of existence LOL)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bible you clutch is a translation of a translation of a translation of stories that were fabricated and altered again and again over thousands of years. It's quite likely that many of your ancestors were forced to convert to the religion your family now eagerly celebrates. Religion and God are simply ancient control mechanisms to persuade you to follow your leader.

And what do you follow? Do you think your actions are based on innate common sense or it it possible that religion has to some extent helped us determine right from wrong. I guarantee it, one day people will be fighting to make adultery and stealing acceptable.

I consider myself religious. I believe in God. I am not a Bible clutcher but I do feel that most religions are more similar than not in what they preach. I also think that for the most part, that if people followed what was preached, this world would be a MUCH better place.

The root of all evil and the demise of society isn't religion - it is the media and entertainment world (Kardashians, anyone??). Why does a basketball player make so much money? Why do the Kardashans get more attention than those who are actually doing good? Why does the media focus on the bad to the point where we are completely desensitized? Why are so many people selfish and greedy? The reason isn't religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bible you clutch is a translation of a translation of a translation of stories that were fabricated and altered again and again over thousands of years. It's quite likely that many of your ancestors were forced to convert to the religion your family now eagerly celebrates. Religion and God are simply ancient control mechanisms to persuade you to follow your leader.

And what do you follow? Do you think your actions are based on innate common sense or it it possible that religion has to some extent helped us determine right from wrong. I guarantee it, one day people will be fighting to make adultery and stealing acceptable.

I consider myself religious. I believe in God. I am not a Bible clutcher but I do feel that most religions are more similar than not in what they preach. I also think that for the most part, that if people followed what was preached, this world would be a MUCH better place.

The root of all evil and the demise of society isn't religion - it is the media and entertainment world (Kardashians, anyone??). Why does a basketball player make so much money? Why do the Kardashans get more attention than those who are actually doing good? Why does the media focus on the bad to the point where we are completely desensitized? Why are so many people selfish and greedy? The reason isn't religion.

The majority of people in the US are religious and that is what they watch and enjoy. Don't blame the problems of majority culture on the small minority of people who are not believers. If you want the culture to be better, look to your own institutions and their teachings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am with you on not getting atheism.
I think many of these atheists have never witnessed the miracle of birth.
People talk about the “randomness of the universe.”
It is not random at all.
The fact that so many, many things can go wrong with the birth of a child and most often, a baby is born nearly perfect proves to me that God’s hand is at work and that we have a good and loving God.
And, to think that a giant maple tree can grow out of a seed that is the size of a pea - simply miraculous.
I have witnessed miracles nearly every day.
There are some things that we simply cannot understand or explain through science.

So if a seed doesn't sprout or a baby does in childbirth is it an anti-miracle?

Not at all. It simply was not meant to be - for whatever reason.
Not everything can be explained.
I don’t have all the answers, but I do have a strong faith in God.
There have been many unexplainable miracles in my life.

Just because YOU don't understand the science doesn't mean that the explanation is "God" instead of biology.

Ahh... but science does not have all the answers.
Science explains SOME of the miracles of life, but not all.
God’s hand at work.
I don’t expect you to believe. You can choose your course in life.
I choose to believe because of the miraculous events I have witnessed.
One of which is the birth of a child.
It doesn’t get much more miraculous than that.

Science has the ability to explain everything in time.

I have delivered two children personally and been present at other births. There is nothing miraculous about biology and technology. Sorry.

If biology is not miraculous to you - that means you can recreate it. Go ahead - make a seed or sperm or egg.