Tell me about Islam
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Muslima
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Stop lying. I have not posted links to any youtube videos yesterday or the day before, or today...... |
Anonymous
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And there you have it folks! We have one person who thought she was criticizing Muslims by pointing out most of our converts were Africans and now we have another poster who tells Muslima to go back to her country.
So the whole time we thought they were legitimately seeking info, but now they are exposed as nothing but a handful of RACIST ISLAMOPHOBES. |
Anonymous
Salaam Sister, Hit the REPORT button and tell Jeff about the two posters who posted racist messages on this thread. I plan to do same. |
Muslima
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Yes blogging would be a good way to start, there are tons of people out there who have a genuine interest in learning about the true teachings of Islam. Once you start with blogging, you can expand to other outlets as well and volunteer in organizations like "why Islam" ect... A lot of islamophobia is indeed due to fear, fear caused mostly by ignorance but the good thing is phobias for the most part can be cured! |
Anonymous
You live in Falls Church and you don't realize you're in the DMV area? Or maybe you think DMV refers to Department of Motor Vehicles? It seems unlikely in this area, Falls Church or anywhere else. You say you post only from the Kiss-and-Ride, your first post clocks in around 8:00am, and you're still posting at 11:00am? Either that's the longest Kiss-and-Ride ever (hint: none of them are three hours), or you have some explaining to do to your boss about DCUMing while you're working. Or you're lying about living in this area. 8 am is before my kids get up. By 11 am they are off at school. By 3ish I am in kiss n ride. I do not live in Falls Church. I live in Great Falls, VA. |
Anonymous
Islam is a belief system, not a race. Hatred of Islam is not racism, it is hatred of a particular set of beliefs that some individuals have chosen to believe. |
Muslima
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It is racist to point out the race of Muslim converts with the intent to de legitimize, undermine, devalue and demean their conversions. Unfortunately for you that racism is not acceptable in Islam. Your posts say a lot about what kind of person you are! It is tragic to live with this level of ignorance in this day and age. |
Anonymous
Recap: 1) the thread invited Muslims to speak about their religion so Muslima and I did. 2) You or others called a prophet beloved to us a pedophile 3) Your criticism of Islam is that most of our converts are African American or poor people. This is racist. 4) You asked numerous questions and so we provided youtube links to islamic scholar lectures, explaining everything in detail. You simply refused to view them. 5) You then told Muslima to go back to her country. Another racist comment. Accusations of pedophilia and racist comments trump accusations of being a bad mother/spouse any day in the gravity of the offense. You lose. |
Anonymous
Lets refer them to Steve Goemans 2013 article "Islamophobe is a racism." |
Muslima
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Salaam sister, Great. Ignorance and prejudice are the handmaiden of propaganda and this has been demonstrated over and over by those posters. ..racist thought and action says far more about the person they come from than the person they are directed at. |
Anonymous
| Eh, take a break from this thread and see what comes out! I am back. I'm going to start taking the comments by Muslima and the other lady and address them one by one. |
Anonymous
Considering no one on this bored knows your race, it's pretty clear no one is being racist. Now can some of the things said be taken as offensive? Yes. But clearly not racist. However it's an easy word to throw around isn't it? |
Anonymous
Thanks. I'm worn out. Signed, PP who posed questions respectfully (I never called Mohammed a pedophile or talked about the race of these supposedly massive numbers of converts who we STILL have no real stats for), yet Mary of my religion was called a slut more times than Muhammed was called a pedophile, and I was was called an Islam-hater with a spouse who is about to divorce her and with neglected kids who eat burnt pork roasts, attend community college, and do drugs and porn behind my back. (BTW, what's wrong with community colleges, even if that were true?) |
Anonymous
*board*...... before the spelling police come at me. |
Anonymous
I see. You are advancing the argument that there is indeed a limitation on polygamy that consists of terms under which marrying more than one is permissible. Your claim rests on your rejection of thousands of years of legal tradition and Muslim practice. Clearly, they were looking for you, o the enlightened one, to come out of DCUM and set them straight. But never mind. You wanted me to consult a reputable scholar. Luckily, there's lots to pick from. Do you mind if I don't go to Mr. Yusuf but pick some other of this breathren? I feel, personally, like you provided him with enough air time here. Let's have a little show and tell. Up first is Mr. Yusuf Qaradawi, one of the most famous Muslim jurists in the Arab world, and the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood-linked European Council for Fatwa and Research. Who is Mr. Qaradawi? Yusuf al-Qaradawi (Arabic: ???? ???????? Y?suf al-Qara??w??; or Yusuf al-Qardawi; born 9 September 1926) is an Egyptian Islamic theologian, and chairman of the International Union of Muslim Scholars.[1] He is best known for his programme, al-Shar??a wa al-?ay?h ("Shariah and Life"), broadcast on Al Jazeera, which has an estimated audience of 60 million worldwide.[2][3] He is also well known for IslamOnline, a popular website he helped found in 1997 and for which he now serves as chief religious scholar.[4] Al-Qaradawi has published more than 120 books,[3] including The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam and Islam: The Future Civilization. He has also received eight international prizes for his contributions to Islamic scholarship,[5] and is considered one of the most influential such scholars living today.[2][6][7] Al-Qaradawi has long had a prominent role within the intellectual leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood,[8] an Egyptian political organization, but twice (in 1976 and 2004) turned down offers for the official role in the organization.[2][9] As of 2004, al-Qaradawi was a trustee of the Oxford Centre for Islamic Studies.[13] He also served as a consultant scholar for an epic movie in English on Muhammad, and a 30-part series on the second caliph 'Umar b. al-Kha???b.[14][15][16] http://www.translatingjihad.com/2011/03/fatwa-polygamy-can-solve-problem-for.html Decision of the Council: Before Islam, people would marry whichever women they wished without any restrictions or conditions. Then Islam came, and placed limits and conditions on this polygamy. As for the limit, it made the maximum number four, not to be increased under any circumstances: “Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four” [Qur’an 4:3]. When an educated man who had ten wives converted to Islam, the Prophet (peace be upon him) commanded him to choose four of them, and divorce the rest. As for the condition, it is expressed in the confidence a man has in himself to be able to deal justly. Otherwise, he is forbidden from taking another wife: “If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one” [Qur’an 4:3]. This is in addition to the availability of the other conditions (required) for any marriage, such as the ability to cover (the wife’s) expenses and to protect her. Therefore Islam has allowed this, because it is a practical religion. It does not float around in dreamy ideals, and leave the problems of life without a predetermined solution. A second marriage could solve a problem for a man whose wife cannot bear him children. Or for a man whose wife has a prolonged menstrual cycle, and his lust becomes too great. Or for a man whose wife becomes sick, and he remains with her and does not want to divorce her, and so on. It could also solve a problem for the widow whose husband has died, and who does not desire to marry a young man who has no wife. The same goes for a young divorced woman, especially if she has one or more children. It could even solve a problem for the whole of society, which comes when the number of righteous women becomes greater than the number of men who are able to marry. This is an ever-present problem, which is aggravated after wars and such. For what will we do with the surplus women? There are three choices: 1. They can spend their entire lives denied the life of a wife and mother. This is injustice against them. 2. They can satisfy their natural instincts outside the boundaries of religion and morals. This is perdition for them. 3. They can accept marriage with a married man who is able to pay their expenses and protect them, and is confident of his ability to deal justly. This is the appropriate solution. Now the misuse of these plural wives or of this right to polygamy--for how often rights are misused, or abused! Yet this does not result in their abrogation. How often the first marriage itself is misused! Do we therefore cancel (this right)? How often freedom is misused! Do we therefore cancel this (right)? Elections are misused--do we cancel this (right)? And authority...how often this is misused! Do we cancel this right, and let life descend into anarchy? Therefore rather than call for the cancelling of the right, let us put conditions on its use, and punish he who misuses it, as much as we are able. What do we see here? What conditions? No more than four, and treating all justly. But never mind. Maybe Qaradawi learned his Islam from Sheikh Google. Or maybe he cherrypicks his quotes. Maybe he doesn't understand the historical context in which the Quranic verses were revealed, despite his multiple degrees and years of work? Perhaps there are huge loopholes in his understanding of traditional Islam? Poor, poor Yusuf. Poor misguided chap. If only he had you to set you straight. Contestant #2 is Mr. Abdulaziz Bin Baz, formerly of the "earth is flat" club, but to be fair, he did admit he was wrong about that. What do we know about Mr. Bin Baz? A Saudi Arabian Islamic scholar and a leading proponent of the Salafi (also known as Wahhabism) form of Islam. He was the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia from 1993 until his death in 1999. His "immense religious erudition and his reputation for intransigence" gave him such "prestige" among the pious population of Saudi Arabia, that his fatwas endorsing government policy greatly strengthened the Saudi Arabian government, and his death left the government without a comparable figure to "fill" his "shoes".[3] Among his honors are In 1961 he was appointed Vice President, and later President, of the Islamic University of Madinah. In 1970 he became the Chancellor of the University upon the death of Muhammad ibn Ibraaheem Aal ash-Shaykh and he remained chancellor until 1975. In 1975 a royal decree named him Chairman of the Department of Scientific Research and Ifta with the rank of Minister. In 1992 he was appointed Grand Mufti of the Saudi Arabia and Head of the Council of Senior Scholars and was granted presidency of the administration for scientific research and legal rulings. President of the Permanent Committee for Research and Fatawa. President and member of the Constituent Assembly of the Muslim World League.[1][2] President of the Higher World League Council. President of the International Islamic Fiqh Academy, Jeddah. Member of the Higher Council of the Islamic University of Medina. Member of the Higher Committee for Islaamic Da'wah in Saudi Arabia. What does this beacon of Islamic knowledge have to say about polygamy? http://www.fatwaislam.com/fis/index.cfm?scn=fd&ID=579 Concerning Polygyny/ Polygamy. Question: Some people say marrying more than one wife is not allowed unless a person has an orphan under his care and he fears that he will not do justice between them. Then he may marry their mother or one of her daughters. For evidence they quote, '' And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan-girls, then marry women of your choice, two, three or four.” (al-Nisa:3) Answer: This statement is false. The meaning of the verse is that if a person has under his care an orphan and he fears that he will not give her proper amount of dower, then he should marry other women, for there are many women and Allah will not make things difficult for him. The verse points to the legality of marrying two, three or four wives. This is allowed because it leads to more chastity, lowering the eyesight and guarding the private parts. Furthermore, that is a cause for more children and the chastity of more women, as well as them being treated properly and cared for. There is no doubt that the women who has one-half of a husband or one-third or one-fourth is better off than the one who has no husband at all. However, one must meet the condition of justice among the wives and the ability to take care of and tend to the wives. If a person fears he will not do justice, then he may only marry one wife in addition to having slaves. The practice of the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alaihi-wasallam) indicates and stresses that. When he died he had nine wives. And Allah says about him, ''Indeed in the Messenger of Allah you have a good example to follow.” (al-Ahzab:21) The Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alaihi-wasallam) made it clear to his Nation that it was allowed for him to have more than four wives. Therefore, following his example on this point would mean taking four wives or less. Beyond four wives is something that is specific for the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alaihi-wasallam) only. Shaykh `Abdul-`Azeez Bin Baz For #3, just 'cause I'm tired already, I present to you the fine, fine people of islamqa.com. What is islamqa.com? IslamQA was founded in 1997 by Saudi Islamic scholar Muhammad Al-Munajid. The site uses a question and answer format. Internet visitors submit questions to Muhammad Al-Munajid who then answers their inquiries. Previously answered questions are available for review through an extensive search engine. The site declares that it only uses "authentic, scholarly sources based on the Quran and sunnah, and other reliable contemporary scholarly opinions."[2] IslamQA states that its purpose is:[2] to teach and familiarize Muslims with various aspects of their religion to be a source for guiding people to Islam to respond to users questions and inquiries to the best of our resources and capabilities to assist in solving the social and personal problems of the Muslims in an Islamic context. Subject areas include "Islamic fiqh and jurisprudence, Islamic history, Islamic social laws (including marriage, divorce, contracts, and inheritance), Islamic finance, basic tenets and aqeedah of the Islamic faith and tawheed, and Arabic grammar as it relates to the Quran and Islamic texts."[2] And what does it have to say about polygamy? http://islamqa.info/en/14022 14022: The ruling on plural marriage and the wisdom behind it I was really into becoming a Muslim. I came to this site to find out how to become Muslim, on doing so I found out alot about the religion I never knew before, and it's kind of disturbing and almost a let down. I'm sorry I feel like that but it's true. One of the things that bother me is the polygamy thing, I would like to know where it addresses that in the Holy Qu'ran, please try to give me tips on how to live like that and remain sane? Praise be to Allaah. Allaah concluded His Message to mankind with the religion of Islam, and He tells us that He will not accept any religion other than that. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85] Your backing away from the religion of Islam is considered to be a loss for you, and a loss of the happiness that awaited you, had you entered Islam. You should hasten to enter Islam, and beware of delaying, for that delay may lead to regrettable consequences. With regard to what you mention about the reason for your backing off being the idea of plural marriage [polygamy or polygyny], we will present to you the ruling on plural marriage in Islam, and then the wisdom and noble purposes behind it. 1 – The ruling on plural marriage in Islam: The shar’i text which permits plural marriage is: Allaah says in His Holy Book (interpretation of the meaning): “And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice” [al-Nisa’ 4:3] This is a Qur’aanic text which shows that plural marriage is allowed. According to Islamic sharee’ah, a man is permitted to marry one, two, three or four wives, in the sense that he may have this number of wives at one time. It is not permissible for him to have more than four. This was stated by the mufassireen (commentators on the Qur’aan) and fuqaha’ (jurists), and there is consensus among the Muslims on this point, with no differing opinions. It should be noted that there are conditions attached to plural marriage: 1 – Justice or fairness. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one” [al-Nisa’ 4:3] This aayah is indicates that just treatment is a condition for plural marriage to be permitted. If a man is afraid that he will not be able to treat his wives justly if he marries more than one, then it is forbidden for him to marry more than one. What is meant by the justice that is required in order for a man to be permitted to have more than one wife is that he should treat his wives equally in terms of spending, clothing, spending the night with them and other material things that are under his control. With regard to justice or fairness in terms of love, he is not held accountable for that, and that is not required of him because he has no control over that. This is what is meant by the verse, “You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire” [al-Nisa’ 4:129 – interpretation of the meaning]. 2 – The ability to spend on one’s wives: The evidence for this condition is the verse: “And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allaah enriches them of His Bounty” [al-Noor 24:33 – interpretation of the meaning] In this verse Allaah commands those who are able to get married but cannot find the financial means, to remain chaste. One such example is not having enough money to pay the mahr (dowry) and not being able to spend on one’s wife. (al-Mufassal fi Ahkaam al-Mar’ah, part 6, p. 286). 2 – The wisdom behind permitting plural marriage 1 – Plural marriage helps to increase the numbers of the ummah (nation, Muslim community). It is known that the numbers can only be increased through marriage, and the number of offspring gained through plural marriage will be greater than that achieved through marriage to one wife. Wise people know that increasing the number of offspring will strengthen the ummah and increase the number of workers in it, which will raise its economic standard – if the leaders run the affairs of state well and make use of its resources in a proper manner. Ignore the claims of those who say that increasing the numbers of human beings poses a danger to the earth’s resources which are insufficient, for Allaah the Most Wise Who has prescribed plural marriage has guaranteed to provide provision for His slaves and has created on earth what is more than sufficient for them. Whatever shortfall exists is due to the injustice of administrations, governments and individuals, and due to bad management. Look at China, for example, the greatest nation on earth as far as number of inhabitants is concerned, and it is regarded as one of the strongest nations in the world, and other nations would think twice before upsetting China; it is also one of the great industrialized nations. Who would dare think of attacking China, I wonder? And why? 2 – Statistics show that the number of women is greater than the number of men; if each man were to marry just one woman, this would mean that some women would be left without a husband, which would have a harmful effect on her and on society: The harmful effect is that she would never find a husband to take care of her interests, to give her a place to live, to spend on her, to protect her from haraam desires, and to give her children to bring her joy. This may lead to deviance and going astray, except for those on whom Allaah has mercy. With regard to the harmful effects on society, it is well known that this woman who is left without a husband may deviate from the straight path and follow the ways of promiscuity, so she may fall into the swamp of adultery and prostitution – may Allaah keep us safe and sound – which leads to the spread of immorality and the emergence of fatal diseases such as AIDS and other contagious diseases for which there is no cure. It also leads to family breakdown and the birth of children whose identity is unknown, and who do not know who their fathers are. Those children do not find anyone to show compassion towards them or any mature man to raise them properly. When they go out into the world and find out the truth, that they are illegitimate, that is reflected in their behaviour, and they become exposed to deviance and going astray. They may even bear grudges against society, and who knows? They may become the means of their country’s destruction, leaders of deviant gangs, as is the case in many nations in the world. 3 – Men are exposed to incidents that may end their lives, for they work in dangerous professions. They are the soldiers who fight in battle, and more men may die than women. This is one of the things that raise the percentage of husbandless women, and the only solution to this problem is plural marriage. 4 – There are some men who may have strong physical desires, for whom one wife is not enough. If the door is closed to such a man and he is told, you are not allowed more than one wife, this will cause great hardship to him, and his desire may find outlets in forbidden ways. In addition to that, a woman menstruates each month, and when she gives birth, she bleeds for forty days (this post-partum bleeding is called nifaas in Arabic), at which time a man cannot have intercourse with his wife, because intercourse at the time of menstruation or nifaas is forbidden, and the harm that it causes has been proven medically. So plural marriage is permitted when one is able to be fair and just. 5 – Plural marriage does not exist only in the Islamic religion, rather it was known among the previous nations. Some of the Prophets were married to more than one woman. The Prophet of Allaah Sulaymaan (Solomon) had ninety wives. At the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), there were some men who became Muslims who had eight or five wives. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told them to keep four wives and to divorce the rest. 6 – A wife may be barren, or she may not meet her husband’s needs, or he may be unable to have intercourse with her because she is sick. A husband may long to have children, which is a legitimate desire, and he may want to have a sex life within marriage, which is something permissible, and the only way is to marry another wife. It is only fair for the wife to agree to remain his wife and to allow him to marry another. 7 – A woman may be one of the man’s relatives and have no one to look after her, and she is unmarried or a widow whose husband has died, and the man may think that the best thing to do for her is to include her in his household as a wife along with his first wife, so that he will both keep her chaste and spend on her. This is better for her than leaving her alone and being content only to spend on her. 8 – There are other shar’i interests that call for plural marriages, such as strengthening the bonds between families, or strengthening the bonds between a leader and some of his people or group, and he may think that one of the ways of achieving this aim is to become related to them through marriage, even if that is through plural marriage. Just because I want to indulge you and quote not one of the bearded idiots but an enlightened scholar you love, let's consult Mr. Badawi. What does Mr. Badawi have to say? Mr. Badawi says don't marry more than one in the West because the West doesn't allow it, but when the West does allow it, go ahead and do it. He adds a few barbs, too - that damn intolerant West, allows homosexuals to marry but doesn't let us take more than one?? Shame! http://www.islamawareness.net/Polygamy/fatwa001.html Focusing more on this issue, the prominent Muslim scholar Dr. Jamal Badawi, professor at Saint Mary's University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada and member of the Fiqh Council of North America, adds: Polygamy is an example where there is a difference between what is legitimate in Islamic Shari`ah and what is considered illegitimate in secular societies. I am not discussing the problem of polygamy; or whether polygamy or monogamy is the norm in Islam; or whether, as many people mistakenly think, Islam really introduced polygamy; or that it is the only Abrahamic religion that limited the number and put conditions. There is no mention of limiting the number of wives either in the Old Testimony or the New Testimony; there are some Christians, like Martin Luther, who said that there is no Biblical evidence to the prohibition of polygamy. I must say, in the first place, why would a particular person want to have a second wife, even though it might be acceptable or legitimate under the Islamic Shari`ah? Because there is also a spirit of why polygamy has been permitted even though it has not been codified in the Qur'an. Secondly, a Muslim living in a non-Muslim society is obligated to follow the laws. We cannot say that their laws are contrary to the Shari`ah, so we have to follow the Shari`ah. Taking a second wife is not a necessary requirement; there is no mandatory duty on the Muslim to have a second wife. If a person has become a resident or a citizen in a European country, it is a condition for him to abide by its laws. When a Muslim man in a European country sticks to not having a second wife, it is like giving up a particular right according to his own Shari`ah. The person who has a second wife could be subject to criminal punishment. If, however, in the future the non-Muslim societies give Muslims the same right to their personal law that Islam gives to its minorities, that is a different issue. It is known that historically and, in principle, Islam does allow religious minorities to have their own personal law regarding marriage, divorce, division of the estate, and custody of the children according to their own religious teachings. The Christians in Egypt enjoy such a right though they are only a tiny portion of the population. If the Western world reciprocated to Muslims in the West the same kind of tolerance and acceptance of autonomy in issues pertinent to religious practice, including marriage, I think polygamy would be quiet legitimate, and there would be no contradiction between what is permissible under the Islamic Shari`ah and what is permissible under the Western laws. However, there are strange and contradictory situations in the West. For example, in Canada it has become quite legal for people to get married homosexually with all their rights, including pension, taxes, etc., reserved. I think there is also a pressure in the United States to have something similar. Adultery and fornication have also been permissible in the West for a long period of time. It sounds rather strange that when all these are permitted and some become legal, marrying a second wife is not permitted and is regarded as a criminal act. To allow homosexuality in the name of liberalism and freedom is a kind of diversion from the innate or fitrah nature in which Almighty Allah created humankind. In terms of our perspectives as Muslims and in terms of the moral standards, this is a setback and decline in the world today. So I could keep copying and pasting, but I'm tired already, so let's just sum it up. Your opinion that marrying more than one wife is subject to any other conditions (other than equal treatment and no more than four) is a minority position. A tiny, tiny, tiny minority position. There is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is saying that reputable scholars support that position when in actual fact, the number of Islamic scholars who speak against polygamy is so miniscule that finding them takes a real effort. You may disagree with the people I quoted. You may call them backwards, reactionary, whatever. What you can't possibly say about that is that they learned their Islam from Sheikh Google, quoted out of context, cherry-picked quotes, didn't study Islam enough, have huge loopholes in their understanding, and really, they should just listen to Hamza Yusuf and all will be well in the world. Whatever you think of this people, uneducated about Islam they aren't. You say you don't like Shariah for whatever reason. I'm not telling you to love it, although it is curious that you believe that generations of Islamic scholars and millions of Muslims who relied on their rulings must all have huge loopholes in their understanding. Leave alone Shariah for a second. Let's look at Islamic practice at the time when the Quran appeared. Presumably, Muhammad knew the real reasons of the verses he passed along. Presumably, he would have been in a position to correct people who practiced them wrongly. His closest friends and companions, the salaf, were they mostly polygamous or mostly monogamous? Did they ALL marry to take care of orphans? Is there any evidence of Muhammad ever telling them that they are doing it all wrong? Or is there evidence of him encouraging them to marry more and more? Lastly, just for kicks, I'd like you to cite me one, just one opinion of a court anywhere in the Muslim-majority country that invalidated a man's marriage to a second, third or fourth wife because it was concluded "for the wrong reasons." You can get to that right after you post the actual numbers on Islam growing by conversion rather than immigration. |