Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?
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Anonymous
Yeah, I love these bold Chinese families walking out the door then telling the oher parents to fight for change. |
Anonymous
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I am one of the Chinese Americans who is a PP. I don't understand why there should be a special preference for Cantonese. This is a Mandarin immersion school. If you want your kids to learn Cantonese, then send them to a Cantonese school!
I also think the presence of too many bilingual/Cantonese speakers can make it much harder for non-native speakers to learn the language. At least this was my college Chinese experience: all the Cantonese/Japanese/assimilated kids whose parents spoke Mandarin at home drove out all the white kids except those who already knew a little Mandarin. |
Anonymous
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For people interested, my child's class has the following demographic:
3 white girls 3 white boys 3 AA girls (1 or 2 may have a non-AA (possibly hispanic) parent) 4 AA boys 2 Asian girls (at least one, maybe both have one white parent) 2 Asian Boys Overall 4 Asian, 6 white, 7 AA. 8 girls, 9 boys. Hispanics are underrepresented in this sample. I'm not sure about some of the apparently AA girls because I don't know their parents. We had two hispanic children last year and two the year before (none the same two - one of them with one white parent). I post this as just a data point. I've been extremely happy with the diversity in my DC's classes. |
Anonymous
Depends how the instruction is done. At my college, dialect speakers in Mandarin classes generally covered in one semester what the rest of us covered in two. They were placed in accelerated classes with non-Chinese language geniuses, and those willing to work extra hard, and things worked out. I never opted for the slower track because I liked how their involvement raised the bar. In the MoCo ES immersion programs, Chinese speakers are tested for proficiency after entering. If they speak good Cantonese, Toisanese, Hakka, Fujian or whatever for their age, they go into advanced Mandarin pullout groups. |
Anonymous
The most intelligent comment on this thread. The clash of civilizations inherent in this coflict does indeed appear intractable. An obvious solution begs for consideration: start a kick ass DCPS Chinese immersion school that works like Oyster, only make it gifted and talented/test-in to promote far higher standards than YY can support across the board, for math, English AND Chinese. Oh, and go with the immersion through MS, like the Canadians do. Please, please do this DCPS, these YY threads are just depressing. If I were a Chinese dialect-speaking immigrant, I wouldn't touch YY school with a 10-foot pole (and my family immigrated from the Balkans, making tribalism our middle name). +100. Lord Hear our Prayer. Cantonese speaker, offered YY spot early on, didn't bite, stayed IB. Guessed that we wouldn't be able to speak freely, that they wouldn't get us, that we'd feel out of place. Lost sleep over concept of extended family strenuously objecting to our heading to school w/admins who don't speak Chinese. Though, seriously, if the principal had broken out in beautiful Mandarin to YeYe and MaMa (grandpa & grandma) I'm confident I could have won them over on the AA issue, employing shaming tactics. Whatever the case. Enjoyed big Chinese New Year party at MoCo heritage school with DC families as per usual. DCPS can't do it. One of the difficulties DCPS has just hiring Spanish teachers for the immersion programs is that they have to be certified to teach in DC. It's part of the Union contract. Charters don't have to care about that. So, at many charter schools the English teachers are certified (obviously) but the foreign language teachers aren't (what's the point in English certification if you're only going to teach in a target language). It's a sop to the WTU, but DCPS is stuck with it and finding Chinese teachers who are certified? Good luck. |
Anonymous
I see you're fine with confrontation and rudeness so long as you are anonymous. How morally-centered of you. I imagine your personal courage is desperately missed. |
Anonymous
Ok so now I have a really basic question: Does the AA Adminstrator/Principal of YY speak Mandarin or not, and if so, at what level (however you can best describe language levels)? I absolutely was under the impression she does speak Mandarin, though obviously not a native speaker. I assumed she is conversational - is that not true? Not that I don't believe she can be a great prinicipal at a DC Mandarin immersion school and not speak it - if she's a great administrator she could still pull it off well but you have to have native Chinese staff. But does she speak Mandarin and if so, how much? She's learned a little since she came on board, maybe around a college semester's worth, not great on the tones. Meaning, she knew no Mandarin when she started as the YY Principal, or meaning she did know some, and has learned more since coming on? I get that your assessment is she's not great on the tones, but is she conversational? |
Anonymous
| For Christ's sake - there's enough YY vitriolic BS on this board over the last three years to kill a horse. There are 40 of you who give a shit - defenders or attackers. Can you start your own bitching board and give the rest of us a break? |
Anonymous
And there are enough threads where people like you bitch about threads that beat dead horses, AS IF you are forced to open them. Once a thread goes downhill for you, why do you keep opening it? This thread began as and is continuing to be a dialogue/fight about how best to achieve bilingual ed, other priorities, and how ethnic language speakers are recruited. While it has ended up focused on YY issues, it's still basically the same conversation. If you don't like it, instead of expecting others to stop the conversation and start their own board, be an adult and use your freedom of choice: give yourself a break by not opening threads that are, from the beginning, about a topic that you obviously do not want to hear about anymore. |
Anonymous
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DCPS can't do it. One of the difficulties DCPS has just hiring Spanish teachers for the immersion programs is that they have to be certified to teach in DC. It's part of the Union contract. Charters don't have to care about that. So, at many charter schools the English teachers are certified (obviously) but the foreign language teachers aren't (what's the point in English certification if you're only going to teach in a target language). It's a sop to the WTU, but DCPS is stuck with it and finding Chinese teachers who are certified? Good luck. I've heard about this issue. Obstacles to new immersion schools are a real shame, given that only DCPS can set up separate lotteries for native speakers. Immersion best practices really take a beating in this city beyond Spanish. Thanks for clarifying. |
Anonymous
Hear, hear. PP is typically knee-jerk and only wants to defend YY. This has been a fascinating and far-reaching thread. |
Anonymous
Not the PP, but I'm not sure what is either fascinating or far-reaching. Perhaps it's that I have higher standards, because it looks like the same old bitterness. Tall-poppy syndrome at work. |
Anonymous
For one thing, the whole examination of whether ethnic speakers are valued in the classroom and in the Administration, how they get to the schools where they are in big numbers, the obstacles to recurting/enrolling ethnic speakers, some people's prejudices to certain groups as students or Administrators, and which schools basically still run dual lotteries... that is ALL interesting and while there may be bitterness behind what some people posted, there is also a lot of interesting things to consider. And for every person who posts in a thread like this, there are many more who just read but don't post. I imagine some of them are like me as well and actually learned a few things from this. So Tall Poppy Syndrome or not, this has been a very interesting conversation and bitterness aside, I have learned a lot. |
Anonymous
| How far has it really reached? As far as I can tell, OP's real agenda was to complain about YY. The title and reference to Tyler are disingenuous--read her posts and you'll see YY was the only immersion program she was considering. It was either that or her IB school. I haven't seen anything particularly substantive about other schools/programs. |
Anonymous
(From what I remember) At her previous school in Virginia she worked with the Mandarin program. I was under the impression that she spoke none or very little at that time, but has since picked up some basics. She is not conversational and could not present something like an info night. I speak very little Mandarin myself and can pick up that her tones are as flat as mine are. I'm not troubled by that in terms of how it looks to outsiders. What concerns me is that over half of her staff is Chinese and she can't understand them. |