Before you make your summer plans to visit the Outerbanks ofNC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, And to those who dislike comparing marriage equality to the civil rights movement, please check out the July 2011 issue of black enterprise. There was an enlightening article about black political leaders who support the gay rights equality on the exact same tenants and principles as black civil rights. Why? Because equality is equality.

This is a funny (and inaccurate) line of reasoning. So, because some black people agree that the CRM/GRM are the same, all of us should fall in line? Sorry, but the days of speaking on behalf of black people are over. You don't get to say what we should and shouldn't believe. And we aren't going to be "guilted" into supporting something that we don't agree with. Get over it.

You don't get to own discrimination and persecution, honey.

Signed,
A German Jew

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll elaborate. A lot of it comes down to religious freedom. If "marriage" can be expanded, the worry is how does that affect churches that don't believe marriage is possible other than between a man and a woman? Is the govt going to make catholic charities allow gay adoptions? Are they going to make them offer gay couples marriage housing at catholic universities? Are they going to make priests officiate at gay marriages? The separation of church and state is not as absolute as many as you think and would like.

Civil unions are fine, the issue is calling it "marriage".

This is a tired old argument. No one is saying that a gay couple can come into your church and you have to marry them. Gay marriage means that a couple who DOES find an open-minded church that wants to marry them, get to be as married as anybody else.

Your church is still free to be as bigoted as it wants.

If catholic charities and catholic universities are not churches, then yes, they are subject to the same laws about discrimination in housing as anybody else. Rather than rehash this, do a search on dcurbanmom.com and birth control +catholic.

Not the pp, but I will say this. You're fooling yourself if you believe that churches won't be forced to marry gay couples if gay marriage is made legal on a federal level. I can just see the lawsuits coming from gay people who were denied their personal freedom to marry at a church.

And again, just because a person has viewpoints that are different from your own does not make them bigoted. It makes them different. Please grow up and realize that we all don't have to think and/or feel the same to get along and have respect for one another.

Doubtful - "the church" whatever that is - I'm sure you know there are about a ZILLION of these things, wouldn't marry my brother and sister-in-law because of their interfaith beliefs. They had to go to another "the church" -

WHA???? There are more then one? Gasp!

Your post is damn near incoherent (too emotional, perhaps?). Please calm down and try again.

Emotion on this topic? Surely you jest - let me see if I can find people whose rights you are denying and tell them to calm down. I'm someone who things this is exactly the type of thing to get emotional about. I'll tell you that you can't visit your child in the hospital because you don't have the same rights as me and see how "calm" you take it.

[Anonymous]

Not the pp, but I will say this. You're fooling yourself if you believe that churches won't be forced to marry gay couples if gay marriage is made legal on a federal level. I can just see the lawsuits coming from gay people who were denied their personal freedom to marry at a church.

And again, just because a person has viewpoints that are different from your own does not make them bigoted. It makes them different. Please grow up and realize that we all don't have to think and/or feel the same to get along and have respect for one another.

Doubtful - "the church" whatever that is - I'm sure you know there are about a ZILLION of these things, wouldn't marry my brother and sister-in-law because of their interfaith beliefs. They had to go to another "the church" -

WHA???? There are more then one? Gasp!

Your post is damn near incoherent (too emotional, perhaps?). Please calm down and try again.

I didn't find her post incoherent at all. I don't understand your point of federal legalization making a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's times like these I'm glad I'm not an American.

Although, it is interesting to see you argue about "rights" when you claim these things in your own Decleration of Independence. I guess you really are not the land of the free, or you are the land of the free as long as you are white and christian and don't want to marry someone of the same sex? Do I have that right?

The US is far from being the only nation where same-sex marriage is banned.

I am not a huge patriot, and it's great that (I'm assuming) same-sex marriage is legal where you are, but let's not pretend the US is the last homophobic nation on Earth.

That's a great thing to strive for..."US is not the last homophobic nation on Earth" we're just the same as other countries....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NotSoAnonymous wrote:Today I told my mom that I was disappointed about the NC vote, but that I had my chin up. Then I said something to the effect of "I don't care if they hate me, but they'd better not say anything nasty to my kid." (I am a gay parent)

She replied, "Oh honey, don't you get it? That feeling of wanting to protect your kids from the ugliness... That's how *I* feel, because I'm *your* mom."

I think it's this- parents friends and families of gay people who will turn the tide. Tell me my life is illegitimate all you like- I just hope you don't say it when my 60 year old mom is around. She'll mama bear your ass.

My midwestern-union-loving-blue-collar-bar-brawling family is like this. They love my gay brother, and if you dare say something negative his homosexuality, they will beat the shit out of you.

I doubt it. Otherwise, your family sound like savages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, And to those who dislike comparing marriage equality to the civil rights movement, please check out the July 2011 issue of black enterprise. There was an enlightening article about black political leaders who support the gay rights equality on the exact same tenants and principles as black civil rights. Why? Because equality is equality.

I guess y'all just won't get that telling people how they should feel based on how some others in their culture feel doesn't work.

Should I tell a white woman who thinks that contraceptives should be covered under all health insurance plans to pick up a copy of Forbes magazine so she can read an article about a feminist leader from the 60s who's against mandatory coverage of contraceptives?

To be clear, I support same-sex marriage, but if you're trying to get people who don't support your cause to support it, saying "Hey! This black person agrees with me so you should too!" is ineffective. But if you don't care about actually effecting helpful change, keep right on...

Maybe this doesn't resonate with you and others, but it does with some. You don't get to define a movement or someone's motivation. You, my dear, are not omnipotent. Entitled to your opinion? Yes, but you are not the sole source who speaks for everyone. Get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, And to those who dislike comparing marriage equality to the civil rights movement, please check out the July 2011 issue of black enterprise. There was an enlightening article about black political leaders who support the gay rights equality on the exact same tenants and principles as black civil rights. Why? Because equality is equality.

This is a funny (and inaccurate) line of reasoning. So, because some black people agree that the CRM/GRM are the same, all of us should fall in line? Sorry, but the days of speaking on behalf of black people are over. You don't get to say what we should and shouldn't believe. And we aren't going to be "guilted" into supporting something that we don't agree with. Get over it.

You don't get to own discrimination and persecution, honey.

Signed,
A German Jew

Where did the PP even say that? Where did she (or he) even mention discrimination or persecution?

Perhaps you should get over whatever chip you have on your shoulder, since you're irrelevantly bringing up the fact that you're a German Jew.

Signed,
does my ethnicity even matter in this discussion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Maybe this doesn't resonate with you and others, but it does with some. You don't get to define a movement or someone's motivation. You, my dear, are not omnipotent. Entitled to your opinion? Yes, but you are not the sole source who speaks for everyone. Get over yourself.

Again, I'll repeat:

If that's the tactic you like to employ, continue. But I'm assuming I have greater insight into the community than you do. I see how it works (or doesn't). As long as you care about mostly about yourself and doing what you want to do, continue. If you care more about furthering the actual cause, you might want to employ different tactics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://unicornbooty.com/blog/2011/08/19/a-few-words-on-gay-marriage-gay-lunch-and-gay-parking/

Why do we keep calling it "gay marriage" - isn't it just marriage?

And I love how we sign our names -

Signed -

A white, hetrosexual, married women, with brown hair and brown eyes, maybe 5'6 and 5-6 lbs overweight, I like rainbows and puppydogs, I wear size 7.5 shoes but sometimes lie about wearing 7 and have freckles on my nose and have a brown cockerspaniel and a 2.5 year old and I just finished eating a poptart.

Does that make my opinion on marriage more relevant then yours? I think the fact that I had a poptart for breakfast does.

So why is interracial marriage called interracial marriage? Why isn't it just referred to as marriage?

Some people are really focusing on the wrong thing. Adjectives are used to describe a noun. Of course we could just use the noun, but the adjective makes it more specific.

Of course marriage is marriage, whether it's a marriage of a black woman to a black man or a white man to an Asian man. But because the discussion is specifically about the rights of gay people to marry, it's referred to as gay marriage.

I don't call it interracial marriage. When I attended the wedding of my sister (white) to her husband (Korean) I didn't say "I'm going to attend their interracial wedding!" and when their child was born, I didn't say "OH! I'm so excited for my interracial nephew to join our family!" I attended a wedding and hugged my nephew. When my gay cousin got married (cause we don't live in North Carolina) he got married, not gay-married. When he adopts a child, he isn't going to gay-adopt.

When I got married I didn't hetro-samerace-marry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NotSoAnonymous wrote:Today I told my mom that I was disappointed about the NC vote, but that I had my chin up. Then I said something to the effect of "I don't care if they hate me, but they'd better not say anything nasty to my kid." (I am a gay parent)

She replied, "Oh honey, don't you get it? That feeling of wanting to protect your kids from the ugliness... That's how *I* feel, because I'm *your* mom."

I think it's this- parents friends and families of gay people who will turn the tide. Tell me my life is illegitimate all you like- I just hope you don't say it when my 60 year old mom is around. She'll mama bear your ass.

My midwestern-union-loving-blue-collar-bar-brawling family is like this. They love my gay brother, and if you dare say something negative his homosexuality, they will beat the shit out of you.

I doubt it. Otherwise, your family sound like savages.

They're forthcoming, honest, and fearless. And I happen to admire people who aren't afraid to kick the asses of bigots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What a terrible leap at logic. But you get points for trying.

I don't agree with homosexuality...I think it is unnatural and a perversion. I also believe it is a sin. HOWEVER, Christians are charged with hating the sin, but loving the sinner. Jesus Christ reached out to SINNERS, not believers. So, while I don't have to agree with your sin, I do have to love you as a person.

Everything is not so black and white. Like it or not, this isn't an either/or situation.

Please point out the logical fallacy.

You left something out - hate the sin, love the sinner - but what about enacting laws that prejudice the sinner? What is the churche's position on that?

And I think you'e confused about the definition of bigotry - it has nothing to do with hatred (although there is often a lot of overlap). - a bogot is, "a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race." That intolerance manifested itself most recently in NC.

Finally, in all your platitudes about Christianity (I notice you left out tolerance), you never addressed WHY holdign those attitudes isn't bigoted.

Your post is the problem with some people.

Why is it necessary for Christians (or any religion for that matter because Judaism and Islam condemns homosexuality) to accept homosexuality? Is it not enough that some Christians don't agree with it, but still respect your right to pursue happiness?

I can't speak about Christians who don't support gay marriage because I am not one of them. Every person has their own reasons for why they do/don't support a particular issue. Being Christian does not make you of the same mindset of other Christians on all issues.

I believe in the Bible's stance on homosexuality. Period...there is no room for negotiation on this point. BUT, this is my personal belief system and I recognize that my personal beliefs shouldn't dictate another person's right to liberty.

I'm really not sure why you are persisting in arguing with me on this issue. I am not one of the anti-gay marriage Christian people that you are thirsting to argue with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, And to those who dislike comparing marriage equality to the civil rights movement, please check out the July 2011 issue of black enterprise. There was an enlightening article about black political leaders who support the gay rights equality on the exact same tenants and principles as black civil rights. Why? Because equality is equality.

This is a funny (and inaccurate) line of reasoning. So, because some black people agree that the CRM/GRM are the same, all of us should fall in line? Sorry, but the days of speaking on behalf of black people are over. You don't get to say what we should and shouldn't believe. And we aren't going to be "guilted" into supporting something that we don't agree with. Get over it.

You don't get to own discrimination and persecution, honey.

Signed,
A German Jew

Where did the PP even say that? Where did she (or he) even mention discrimination or persecution?

Perhaps you should get over whatever chip you have on your shoulder, since you're irrelevantly bringing up the fact that you're a German Jew.

Signed,
does my ethnicity even matter in this discussion?

You'd have to read the entire thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, And to those who dislike comparing marriage equality to the civil rights movement, please check out the July 2011 issue of black enterprise. There was an enlightening article about black political leaders who support the gay rights equality on the exact same tenants and principles as black civil rights. Why? Because equality is equality.

This is a funny (and inaccurate) line of reasoning. So, because some black people agree that the CRM/GRM are the same, all of us should fall in line? Sorry, but the days of speaking on behalf of black people are over. You don't get to say what we should and shouldn't believe. And we aren't going to be "guilted" into supporting something that we don't agree with. Get over it.

You don't get to own discrimination and persecution, honey.

Signed,
A German Jew

Where did the PP even say that? Where did she (or he) even mention discrimination or persecution?

Perhaps you should get over whatever chip you have on your shoulder, since you're irrelevantly bringing up the fact that you're a German Jew.

Signed,
does my ethnicity even matter in this discussion?

She's mentioned several times that she's an AA woman. Keep reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please consider spending your dollars elsewhere. The marriage amendment which was passed with over a 60% majority is not just about gay marriage. It also limits the rights of couples (and their children) who have made a choice not to enter into the traditional marriage contract. Do not throw away your beliefs on human rights for a week at the beach! There are plenty of those in the world.....

Those are YOUR beliefs... not mine and apparently not the beliefs of many others.
However, I support your right to hold true to your beliefs and hope you can do the same for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll elaborate. A lot of it comes down to religious freedom. If "marriage" can be expanded, the worry is how does that affect churches that don't believe marriage is possible other than between a man and a woman? Is the govt going to make catholic charities allow gay adoptions? Are they going to make them offer gay couples marriage housing at catholic universities? Are they going to make priests officiate at gay marriages? The separation of church and state is not as absolute as many as you think and would like.

Civil unions are fine, the issue is calling it "marriage".

This is a tired old argument. No one is saying that a gay couple can come into your church and you have to marry them. Gay marriage means that a couple who DOES find an open-minded church that wants to marry them, get to be as married as anybody else.

Your church is still free to be as bigoted as it wants.

If catholic charities and catholic universities are not churches, then yes, they are subject to the same laws about discrimination in housing as anybody else. Rather than rehash this, do a search on dcurbanmom.com and birth control +catholic.

Not the pp, but I will say this. You're fooling yourself if you believe that churches won't be forced to marry gay couples if gay marriage is made legal on a federal level. I can just see the lawsuits coming from gay people who were denied their personal freedom to marry at a church.

And again, just because a person has viewpoints that are different from your own does not make them bigoted. It makes them different. Please grow up and realize that we all don't have to think and/or feel the same to get along and have respect for one another.

It makes you bigoted if you act on those beliefs, i.e. go to a voting booth. Then you're not just "different." You're a bigot. And no, I don't have to respect anyone who does that.

No, it doesn't make you a bigot. I understand that it's easy to stoop to name-calling when you're frustrated, but try to rise above.

Yes it does. I know you have to find a way to reconcile yourself with yourself, but what people are doing is simply pointing out the facts. If you're free to have beliefs about things, well, that goes both ways and I don't have to respect you. That does make me frustrated. But it's not "name calling" when people are simply responding to the fallacy of how you choose to define something. You're trying to pound a square peg into a round hole and come out unscathed. Doesn't work that way. Bigotry is what it is, plain and simple.

You absolutely don't have to respect my opinion. The difference is that I can disagree with someone's opinion while still respecting their right to their own opinion. I don't feel that my position is "right"; I just believe it is my position.

I'm sorry that you have so loosely defined bigotry. But I guess it helps with the whole labeling of people thing. Cuts down on actually intelligently listening to a person's viewpoints and gaining some insight into how personal beliefs, life experiences, etc shape who we are and what we believe.