PSA: Fairfax County Proposed Budget CANCELS Middle School After School Programs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can't find the money for after-school programs for middle school kids, we absolutely should get rid of TJHSST, IB, and AAP centers. There is absolutely no justification for a magnet HS or these "extras" if we can't cover the basics for middle school kids.

At a minimum we should get rid of busses for choice programs like AAP Centers and TJ.

Good lord- your kid didn’t get in, we get it, but this is getting boring as a retort at this point. Think of something new. Maybe cutting all the coaches, or central office staff!

You post this same thing anytime anyone proposes getting rid of busses for AAP. Most schools offer AAP and most families keep their kids at their base schools. If they choose to send their kids to another school (just like if they sent them to language immersion or one of the arts schools), they should provide transportation. I get providing bussing for schools that don't offer LLIV, but if it's a choice, you should provide your own transportation.

- Mom who has had two kids go through the LLIV program and are doing great in middle school AAP (at our base school btw).

I haven’t posted before, but I’m sure the sentiment that math and reading coaches and specialists at the county level are not really helping teachers or kids has been thought of before. Just as people keep complaining about AAP like it is a sink hole of money. Frankly, i think it probably has kept more MC and UMC parents in the school system and it is the reason there aren’t robust private schools in the area. Parents who are strivers can aim to get their kid in AAP and feel like they have achieved greatness in education and then they don’t move out of the district. FCPS would have had a brain drain long before this without AAP.

My AAP kid was at her home school and base middle school and doing fine, but the CONSTANT harping on AAP buses is crazy.

No one has said how much it costs to run, or how it compares to middle school after school activities, it is just harping because they don’t like the program.

Be creative, think of something new to cut because if you think this is going with the boundary changes, that will be an entirely different and perhaps uglier battleamong FCPS parents.

Agree. It's a way to keep UMC families with bright, not necessarily gifted, kids from leaving the district. The ROI on these students is overall good, their parents contribute a ton of sweat equity and financial assistance to various school programs, and test scores and subsequently property values across the county would be a lot lower if many of those families went to private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can't find the money for after-school programs for middle school kids, we absolutely should get rid of TJHSST, IB, and AAP centers. There is absolutely no justification for a magnet HS or these "extras" if we can't cover the basics for middle school kids.

At a minimum we should get rid of busses for choice programs like AAP Centers and TJ.

Good lord- your kid didn’t get in, we get it, but this is getting boring as a retort at this point. Think of something new. Maybe cutting all the coaches, or central office staff!

They already cut all the coaches for Middle School. It's strange that Prince William County has less money than Fairfax but still has Middle School sports. They have a different version of AAP - where kids are pulled for an entire day once a week - and kids can go to specialized middle schools/high schools for IB or computer tech or whatever. Seems to me, FCPS just mismanages all their money.

PW has tons of data center money. They also have larger class sizes than FCPS.

No they don't. They're much smaller. Everyone I know in PW LOVES the schools, has zero complaints. Several families moved from FCPS and are so much happier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can't find the money for after-school programs for middle school kids, we absolutely should get rid of TJHSST, IB, and AAP centers. There is absolutely no justification for a magnet HS or these "extras" if we can't cover the basics for middle school kids.

At a minimum we should get rid of busses for choice programs like AAP Centers and TJ.

Good lord- your kid didn’t get in, we get it, but this is getting boring as a retort at this point. Think of something new. Maybe cutting all the coaches, or central office staff!

You post this same thing anytime anyone proposes getting rid of busses for AAP. Most schools offer AAP and most families keep their kids at their base schools. If they choose to send their kids to another school (just like if they sent them to language immersion or one of the arts schools), they should provide transportation. I get providing bussing for schools that don't offer LLIV, but if it's a choice, you should provide your own transportation.

- Mom who has had two kids go through the LLIV program and are doing great in middle school AAP (at our base school btw).

I haven’t posted before, but I’m sure the sentiment that math and reading coaches and specialists at the county level are not really helping teachers or kids has been thought of before. Just as people keep complaining about AAP like it is a sink hole of money. Frankly, i think it probably has kept more MC and UMC parents in the school system and it is the reason there aren’t robust private schools in the area. Parents who are strivers can aim to get their kid in AAP and feel like they have achieved greatness in education and then they don’t move out of the district. FCPS would have had a brain drain long before this without AAP.

My AAP kid was at her home school and base middle school and doing fine, but the CONSTANT harping on AAP buses is crazy.

No one has said how much it costs to run, or how it compares to middle school after school activities, it is just harping because they don’t like the program.

Be creative, think of something new to cut because if you think this is going with the boundary changes, that will be an entirely different and perhaps uglier battleamong FCPS parents.

Agree. It's a way to keep UMC families with bright, not necessarily gifted, kids from leaving the district. The ROI on these students is overall good, their parents contribute a ton of sweat equity and financial assistance to various school programs, and test scores and subsequently property values across the county would be a lot lower if many of those families went to private schools.

+100. This describes my family and much of the AAP families we know. We donate towards financial assistance for the students who qualify for FARE which is a higher population at the center school than our base. The AAP busses are full for our center school. If AAP center schools were eliminated, our kids would switch to private. My kids are bright but I don’t think they are gifted. However, from volunteering in the classroom K-2, I observed that they performed at the top of their classes with at most a couple peers. Not just my opinion— other parents made similar comments about my kids. LLIV would not have been a good fit. The center program is substantially more rigorous at least for our pyramid. I believe AAP centers are overall a net positive because they retain kids who bring up average test scores and their families who have the means to give back.

Re: the middle school programs. If the choice is to fund the programs or give teacher raises, I support the latter. There can be other solutions to fill the MSAS gap but what other solution is there for teacher salaries?! Couldn’t MS PTAs organize after school programs? Provide scholarships to FARE students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can't find the money for after-school programs for middle school kids, we absolutely should get rid of TJHSST, IB, and AAP centers. There is absolutely no justification for a magnet HS or these "extras" if we can't cover the basics for middle school kids.

At a minimum we should get rid of busses for choice programs like AAP Centers and TJ.

Good lord- your kid didn’t get in, we get it, but this is getting boring as a retort at this point. Think of something new. Maybe cutting all the coaches, or central office staff!

You post this same thing anytime anyone proposes getting rid of busses for AAP. Most schools offer AAP and most families keep their kids at their base schools. If they choose to send their kids to another school (just like if they sent them to language immersion or one of the arts schools), they should provide transportation. I get providing bussing for schools that don't offer LLIV, but if it's a choice, you should provide your own transportation.

- Mom who has had two kids go through the LLIV program and are doing great in middle school AAP (at our base school btw).

I haven’t posted before, but I’m sure the sentiment that math and reading coaches and specialists at the county level are not really helping teachers or kids has been thought of before. Just as people keep complaining about AAP like it is a sink hole of money. Frankly, i think it probably has kept more MC and UMC parents in the school system and it is the reason there aren’t robust private schools in the area. Parents who are strivers can aim to get their kid in AAP and feel like they have achieved greatness in education and then they don’t move out of the district. FCPS would have had a brain drain long before this without AAP.

My AAP kid was at her home school and base middle school and doing fine, but the CONSTANT harping on AAP buses is crazy.

No one has said how much it costs to run, or how it compares to middle school after school activities, it is just harping because they don’t like the program.

Be creative, think of something new to cut because if you think this is going with the boundary changes, that will be an entirely different and perhaps uglier battleamong FCPS parents.

Agree. It's a way to keep UMC families with bright, not necessarily gifted, kids from leaving the district. The ROI on these students is overall good, their parents contribute a ton of sweat equity and financial assistance to various school programs, and test scores and subsequently property values across the county would be a lot lower if many of those families went to private schools.

+100. This describes my family and much of the AAP families we know. We donate towards financial assistance for the students who qualify for FARE which is a higher population at the center school than our base. The AAP busses are full for our center school. If AAP center schools were eliminated, our kids would switch to private. My kids are bright but I don’t think they are gifted. However, from volunteering in the classroom K-2, I observed that they performed at the top of their classes with at most a couple peers. Not just my opinion— other parents made similar comments about my kids. LLIV would not have been a good fit. The center program is substantially more rigorous at least for our pyramid. I believe AAP centers are overall a net positive because they retain kids who bring up average test scores and their families who have the means to give back.

Re: the middle school programs. If the choice is to fund the programs or give teacher raises, I support the latter. There can be other solutions to fill the MSAS gap but what other solution is there for teacher salaries?! Couldn’t MS PTAs organize after school programs? Provide scholarships to FARE students.

I meant FARMS not FARE

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can't find the money for after-school programs for middle school kids, we absolutely should get rid of TJHSST, IB, and AAP centers. There is absolutely no justification for a magnet HS or these "extras" if we can't cover the basics for middle school kids.

At a minimum we should get rid of busses for choice programs like AAP Centers and TJ.

Good lord- your kid didn’t get in, we get it, but this is getting boring as a retort at this point. Think of something new. Maybe cutting all the coaches, or central office staff!

They already cut all the coaches for Middle School. It's strange that Prince William County has less money than Fairfax but still has Middle School sports. They have a different version of AAP - where kids are pulled for an entire day once a week - and kids can go to specialized middle schools/high schools for IB or computer tech or whatever. Seems to me, FCPS just mismanages all their money.

PW has tons of data center money. They also have larger class sizes than FCPS.

No they don't. They're much smaller. Everyone I know in PW LOVES the schools, has zero complaints. Several families moved from FCPS and are so much happier.

Page 29 of the WABE guide shows PW has larger class sizes: https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/FY-2025-WABE-Guide.pdf. “Everyone I know loves it” isn’t a useful source.

[Anonymous]

this is so dumb I already got my shots for track and it was money are you gonna pay me back for that. plus lots of people at my school stay after for extra help isn't school for learning who's going to help us as students understand what were learning.

[Anonymous]

if you do this your dumb like sooo dumb like omg your stupid if you agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can't find the money for after-school programs for middle school kids, we absolutely should get rid of TJHSST, IB, and AAP centers. There is absolutely no justification for a magnet HS or these "extras" if we can't cover the basics for middle school kids.

At a minimum we should get rid of busses for choice programs like AAP Centers and TJ.

Good lord- your kid didn’t get in, we get it, but this is getting boring as a retort at this point. Think of something new. Maybe cutting all the coaches, or central office staff!

You post this same thing anytime anyone proposes getting rid of busses for AAP. Most schools offer AAP and most families keep their kids at their base schools. If they choose to send their kids to another school (just like if they sent them to language immersion or one of the arts schools), they should provide transportation. I get providing bussing for schools that don't offer LLIV, but if it's a choice, you should provide your own transportation.

- Mom who has had two kids go through the LLIV program and are doing great in middle school AAP (at our base school btw).

I haven’t posted before, but I’m sure the sentiment that math and reading coaches and specialists at the county level are not really helping teachers or kids has been thought of before. Just as people keep complaining about AAP like it is a sink hole of money. Frankly, i think it probably has kept more MC and UMC parents in the school system and it is the reason there aren’t robust private schools in the area. Parents who are strivers can aim to get their kid in AAP and feel like they have achieved greatness in education and then they don’t move out of the district. FCPS would have had a brain drain long before this without AAP.

My AAP kid was at her home school and base middle school and doing fine, but the CONSTANT harping on AAP buses is crazy.

No one has said how much it costs to run, or how it compares to middle school after school activities, it is just harping because they don’t like the program.

Be creative, think of something new to cut because if you think this is going with the boundary changes, that will be an entirely different and perhaps uglier battleamong FCPS parents.

Agree. It's a way to keep UMC families with bright, not necessarily gifted, kids from leaving the district. The ROI on these students is overall good, their parents contribute a ton of sweat equity and financial assistance to various school programs, and test scores and subsequently property values across the county would be a lot lower if many of those families went to private schools.

+100. This describes my family and much of the AAP families we know. We donate towards financial assistance for the students who qualify for FARE which is a higher population at the center school than our base. The AAP busses are full for our center school. If AAP center schools were eliminated, our kids would switch to private. My kids are bright but I don’t think they are gifted. However, from volunteering in the classroom K-2, I observed that they performed at the top of their classes with at most a couple peers. Not just my opinion— other parents made similar comments about my kids. LLIV would not have been a good fit. The center program is substantially more rigorous at least for our pyramid. I believe AAP centers are overall a net positive because they retain kids who bring up average test scores and their families who have the means to give back.

Re: the middle school programs. If the choice is to fund the programs or give teacher raises, I support the latter. There can be other solutions to fill the MSAS gap but what other solution is there for teacher salaries?! Couldn’t MS PTAs organize after school programs? Provide scholarships to FARE students.

I meant FARMS not FARE

I think parents who feel this way probably haven't had middle schoolers yet. The after school programs are amazing. These kids otherwise get home really early, before anyone else in their family with nothing to do but get into trouble or waste time. The after school program provides a safe, quiet, focused place for kids to get work done (homework club) and the ability to get help from teachers when needed, an opportunity to try all kinds of sports and other enriching activities for kids whose families otherwise can't facilitate those things, and really positive social experiences and outlets for the kids. Through the after school program, my DD tried new sports (running and volleyball), enjoyed hobbies it otherwise would have been hard or expensive to arrange (art clay club and service club), and overall had many positive experiences that added to her middle school experience and helped her make social connections. I'm sad my younger DD may miss all that. There is no way the PTA will come even close to replicating it. Our elementary school, for instance, has the most bare bones and low quality after school programming that is organized by the PTA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can't find the money for after-school programs for middle school kids, we absolutely should get rid of TJHSST, IB, and AAP centers. There is absolutely no justification for a magnet HS or these "extras" if we can't cover the basics for middle school kids.

At a minimum we should get rid of busses for choice programs like AAP Centers and TJ.

Good lord- your kid didn’t get in, we get it, but this is getting boring as a retort at this point. Think of something new. Maybe cutting all the coaches, or central office staff!

You post this same thing anytime anyone proposes getting rid of busses for AAP. Most schools offer AAP and most families keep their kids at their base schools. If they choose to send their kids to another school (just like if they sent them to language immersion or one of the arts schools), they should provide transportation. I get providing bussing for schools that don't offer LLIV, but if it's a choice, you should provide your own transportation.

- Mom who has had two kids go through the LLIV program and are doing great in middle school AAP (at our base school btw).

I haven’t posted before, but I’m sure the sentiment that math and reading coaches and specialists at the county level are not really helping teachers or kids has been thought of before. Just as people keep complaining about AAP like it is a sink hole of money. Frankly, i think it probably has kept more MC and UMC parents in the school system and it is the reason there aren’t robust private schools in the area. Parents who are strivers can aim to get their kid in AAP and feel like they have achieved greatness in education and then they don’t move out of the district. FCPS would have had a brain drain long before this without AAP.

My AAP kid was at her home school and base middle school and doing fine, but the CONSTANT harping on AAP buses is crazy.

No one has said how much it costs to run, or how it compares to middle school after school activities, it is just harping because they don’t like the program.

Be creative, think of something new to cut because if you think this is going with the boundary changes, that will be an entirely different and perhaps uglier battleamong FCPS parents.

Agree. It's a way to keep UMC families with bright, not necessarily gifted, kids from leaving the district. The ROI on these students is overall good, their parents contribute a ton of sweat equity and financial assistance to various school programs, and test scores and subsequently property values across the county would be a lot lower if many of those families went to private schools.

+100. This describes my family and much of the AAP families we know. We donate towards financial assistance for the students who qualify for FARE which is a higher population at the center school than our base. The AAP busses are full for our center school. If AAP center schools were eliminated, our kids would switch to private. My kids are bright but I don’t think they are gifted. However, from volunteering in the classroom K-2, I observed that they performed at the top of their classes with at most a couple peers. Not just my opinion— other parents made similar comments about my kids. LLIV would not have been a good fit. The center program is substantially more rigorous at least for our pyramid. I believe AAP centers are overall a net positive because they retain kids who bring up average test scores and their families who have the means to give back.

Re: the middle school programs. If the choice is to fund the programs or give teacher raises, I support the latter. There can be other solutions to fill the MSAS gap but what other solution is there for teacher salaries?! Couldn’t MS PTAs organize after school programs? Provide scholarships to FARE students.

I meant FARMS not FARE

I think parents who feel this way probably haven't had middle schoolers yet. The after school programs are amazing. These kids otherwise get home really early, before anyone else in their family with nothing to do but get into trouble or waste time. The after school program provides a safe, quiet, focused place for kids to get work done (homework club) and the ability to get help from teachers when needed, an opportunity to try all kinds of sports and other enriching activities for kids whose families otherwise can't facilitate those things, and really positive social experiences and outlets for the kids. Through the after school program, my DD tried new sports (running and volleyball), enjoyed hobbies it otherwise would have been hard or expensive to arrange (art clay club and service club), and overall had many positive experiences that added to her middle school experience and helped her make social connections. I'm sad my younger DD may miss all that. There is no way the PTA will come even close to replicating it. Our elementary school, for instance, has the most bare bones and low quality after school programming that is organized by the PTA.

PP here again. Sorry, the wrong prior post was quoted, but my comment makes sense read in isolation.

[Anonymous]

Middle school is such an isolating time for kids, after school clubs is how they make friends. It was this way when I was in middle school 30 years ago. This is devastating for my rising 7th grader - all her friends have told her how much fun middle school is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Middle school is such an isolating time for kids, after school clubs is how they make friends. It was this way when I was in middle school 30 years ago. This is devastating for my rising 7th grader - all her friends have told her how much fun middle school is.

How's it isolating? Do they really lose touch with friends/stop hanging out with neighborhood friends the second middle school starts? MS is no picnic for sure, but i didn't realize it was that bad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that people on this thread can’t understand there are two budgets (and the county one cuts MSAS) despite several posts explaining it is discouraging.

I posted budgets. This is a joint county and schools program. MS letter confirming joint program - closes at 4:30
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScd8ACf3oPOdytk57wvZgF4qGdbygISf8y7r3nOq-3sRIDXLw/viewform

Carson at the beginning of the year had 3 days of the late bus-T,W, TH. Like all schools there were block A and then B. Calendar for Carson now has 4 days of transportation.

This is a county only program NOT at school sites, open when school is closed, school in session oprn until 5:30 with a light meal. FCPS buses on school days?
County also runs prek sites some for very young children

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/neighborhood-community-services/afterschool-programs

My post above. See program budget https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/FY-2025-Program-Budget.pdf
p 162 - FCPS runs the MS after school programs, staff to structure, and the county contributes. The late bus cost is on a separate item under transportation. That category also has transporation for: AAP, elementary magnets, TJ. Shave off magnet $, extra AAP bus, some IB extras and FCPS has enough for normal MS after school programs.

Odd that FCPS doesn't split late bus between middle and high school. No one knows true cost of immersion be it extra staff or gen ed staffing flipped to immersion creating higher class size ratios for other classes.

Adding to my post above. The 26 school based after school specialists are about 92k each in salary alone. 2.4m. The 3rd Woodson BRAC member wrote a blog post about the BOS pulling funding. That knowledgeable insider confirmed that the 26 MS afterschool specialists are dedicated staffers. Not meaning they love their job but that program is their entire scope of responsbility. FCPS spends 230k on 1 non school based staffer for this program. Why?

So what would I do? Explore paying a teacher or 2 per school a stipend to deal with the scheduling. On line/digital sign ups and attendance. Blog post https://www.4publiceducation.org/post/urgent-don-t-let-them-cancel-extracurriculars-1

[Anonymous]

Cutting middle school afterschool activities is a terrible idea. These activities were a life line for my son who is a shy and quiet kid. It gave him the opportunity to make friends, meet with teachers, and try new clubs. He had a good group of friends going into 7th grade but that group fell apart and he was lost and unhappy for a bit. It was when he started going to some of these clubs and finding common ground outside of class that he flourished. He even participated in the school play this year. I can't tell you how much we've appreciated this outlet. My kid will be in high school next year so the budget cut here won't hurt him but it will hurt other kids like him... kids who need the chance to play and make new friends. Don't take away that joy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Middle school is such an isolating time for kids, after school clubs is how they make friends. It was this way when I was in middle school 30 years ago. This is devastating for my rising 7th grader - all her friends have told her how much fun middle school is.

How's it isolating? Do they really lose touch with friends/stop hanging out with neighborhood friends the second middle school starts? MS is no picnic for sure, but i didn't realize it was that bad

When your elementary school feeds to 4 middle schools it is difficult to maintain friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cutting middle school afterschool activities is a terrible idea. These activities were a life line for my son who is a shy and quiet kid. It gave him the opportunity to make friends, meet with teachers, and try new clubs. He had a good group of friends going into 7th grade but that group fell apart and he was lost and unhappy for a bit. It was when he started going to some of these clubs and finding common ground outside of class that he flourished. He even participated in the school play this year. I can't tell you how much we've appreciated this outlet. My kid will be in high school next year so the budget cut here won't hurt him but it will hurt other kids like him... kids who need the chance to play and make new friends. Don't take away that joy.

In your opinion, what should they cut instead? They have to make up the money somewhere.