Boys 2028 mess - considerations and solutions.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DCE having more success- finishing 4-1 at Naptown

Plus they went 3-2 at NLF and 4-1 at NAL. Not a bad summer so far.

Certainly better than madlax/supremes. I think DCE is the favorite to be the DMV top team.

MadLax had 30+ kids on the sidelines today. maybe 20 saw the field, including his own kid, who never comes off and yet is wayyyy too small and of average skill to be playing at that level of competition. In another life he must've run a three card monte stand.

So the rumor is that he's going to reclass and go to Episcopal for 9th grade. He's then going back to Landon to repeat 9th grade (Landon allows holdbacks but you can't repeat the same year at Landon i.e., 2 9th grade years at Landon) because of Cabell being personally and financial connected to Landon through ML.

That is a smart plan. Look at the Princeton Freshman who went from Episcopal to Prep or the Duke goalie who reclassed at Epsicopal or Millon who is a reclass. The list goes on. Most of the top players went this route.

Did you just put that kid next to a goalie at Duke or the number one recruit last year? Have you ever actually seen him play? What CBD shop do you go to?

Criticize CM all you want but we should leave the kid out of it.

That’s hard to do when the criticism is that he plays his son the whole game, when the roster is over 30, and the son is a weaker player than others on the bench.

Just do your best not to be an asshat

So, wring money from gullible parents to subsidize your lifestyle AND your middling-talented kids’ playing time, and then hide behind said kids for doing same. Got it.

Yes, that's club lacrosse everywhere. Any time a roster is over 21, the club is milking parents. To me, if you're kid isn't starting at attack or defense or on the first two middie lines, he's on the wrong club and should leave immediately. Same goes if your kid is stuck behind the coach's kid. Why pay all that money to not play much?

Correct me wherever as I'm out of the loop:
4 att
6 O-mid
4 close D
2 FO
2 G
2 lsm
3 ssdm

That's 23. Every kid could be getting tons of time and many barely making it through a summer weekend. Repeat next weekend. An injury or 2 and you may even be short. Why would having 21 be the cutoff for milking people?

At the younger ages (through 7-8th grade), you don't need any SSDM. So maybe you don't need all of those kids. As stated below, you can also have some overlap - especially at your attack/O-middie spots. With offensive lax moving to positionless offense, you can have attack also play some middie by running one of them out of the box. u can drop 1-3 of those player. Some of your middies can be your back up FOGO or just FO and stay (how it should be through 8th grade). You can also get away with only 1 goalie.

So the proposal is to show up to multiple tourneys, with some kids potentially on vacay, sick or hurt making the numbers even smaller, with a roster of 15-17 guys? Play a bunch of games in the heat and then do it again next weekend? What would the benefit of this be if you could run a roster of 23 and everyone gets a lot of time over 4-5 games? So the fogo can take 60 or more faceoffs in a weekend? I hope the kids are all ironmen.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Yes, you can "get away" with all of those things. If players go down or can't make it. It's suboptimal if your one goalie can't make it 100% through all your games, e.g.

The point I was asking/addressing is what is milking by clubs? If teams/coaches take 21 or 23 or 27 guys and only play 15, then they're milking the bench guys. But it's pretty easy to have any lower 20's number get lots of burn.

[Anonymous]

You’re losing sight of the issue. Sure, we can debate what is the right number between high teens and low to mid 20’s. But at Naptown the team representing MadLax had between 30 and 35 (according to estimates on this board), they went 1-4, they charged 500 per player, and the coaches son, who is middle of the roster at best, never came off the field. And it was a one time event team so nobody knew the roster size or depth chart until after they paid and showed up. There is no defending that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’re losing sight of the issue. Sure, we can debate what is the right number between high teens and low to mid 20’s. But at Naptown the team representing MadLax had between 30 and 35 (according to estimates on this board), they went 1-4, they charged 500 per player, and the coaches son, who is middle of the roster at best, never came off the field. And it was a one time event team so nobody knew the roster size or depth chart until after they paid and showed up. There is no defending that.

Post replied to said if a team had more than 21 to go running and the club just wants checkbooks. Other scenarios weren't the ones being discussed. Since those posts, anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCE having more success- finishing 4-1 at Naptown

Plus they went 3-2 at NLF and 4-1 at NAL. Not a bad summer so far.

Certainly better than madlax/supremes. I think DCE is the favorite to be the DMV top team.

MadLax had 30+ kids on the sidelines today. maybe 20 saw the field, including his own kid, who never comes off and yet is wayyyy too small and of average skill to be playing at that level of competition. In another life he must've run a three card monte stand.

So the rumor is that he's going to reclass and go to Episcopal for 9th grade. He's then going back to Landon to repeat 9th grade (Landon allows holdbacks but you can't repeat the same year at Landon i.e., 2 9th grade years at Landon) because of Cabell being personally and financial connected to Landon through ML.

That is a smart plan. Look at the Princeton Freshman who went from Episcopal to Prep or the Duke goalie who reclassed at Epsicopal or Millon who is a reclass. The list goes on. Most of the top players went this route.

Did you just put that kid next to a goalie at Duke or the number one recruit last year? Have you ever actually seen him play? What CBD shop do you go to?

Criticize CM all you want but we should leave the kid out of it.

That’s hard to do when the criticism is that he plays his son the whole game, when the roster is over 30, and the son is a weaker player than others on the bench.

Just do your best not to be an asshat

So, wring money from gullible parents to subsidize your lifestyle AND your middling-talented kids’ playing time, and then hide behind said kids for doing same. Got it.

Yes, that's club lacrosse everywhere. Any time a roster is over 21, the club is milking parents. To me, if you're kid isn't starting at attack or defense or on the first two middie lines, he's on the wrong club and should leave immediately. Same goes if your kid is stuck behind the coach's kid. Why pay all that money to not play much?

Correct me wherever as I'm out of the loop:
4 att
6 O-mid
4 close D
2 FO
2 G
2 lsm
3 ssdm

That's 23. Every kid could be getting tons of time and many barely making it through a summer weekend. Repeat next weekend. An injury or 2 and you may even be short. Why would having 21 be the cutoff for milking people?

At the younger ages (through 7-8th grade), you don't need any SSDM. So maybe you don't need all of those kids. As stated below, you can also have some overlap - especially at your attack/O-middie spots. With offensive lax moving to positionless offense, you can have attack also play some middie by running one of them out of the box. u can drop 1-3 of those player. Some of your middies can be your back up FOGO or just FO and stay (how it should be through 8th grade). You can also get away with only 1 goalie.

So the proposal is to show up to multiple tourneys, with some kids potentially on vacay, sick or hurt making the numbers even smaller, with a roster of 15-17 guys? Play a bunch of games in the heat and then do it again next weekend? What would the benefit of this be if you could run a roster of 23 and everyone gets a lot of time over 4-5 games? So the fogo can take 60 or more faceoffs in a weekend? I hope the kids are all ironmen.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Yes, you can "get away" with all of those things. If players go down or can't make it. It's suboptimal if your one goalie can't make it 100% through all your games, e.g.

The point I was asking/addressing is what is milking by clubs? If teams/coaches take 21 or 23 or 27 guys and only play 15, then they're milking the bench guys. But it's pretty easy to have any lower 20's number get lots of burn.

Honestly, yes. 18 is probably optimal for playing time. We are talking about 40 minute running clock games. I get why you want to include more but in reality, once yoy get to 20+ you are talking money grabs over anything else.

[Anonymous]

I should add, if you have roster issues because of injuries or the like you can always find kids willing to guest play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCE having more success- finishing 4-1 at Naptown

Plus they went 3-2 at NLF and 4-1 at NAL. Not a bad summer so far.

Certainly better than madlax/supremes. I think DCE is the favorite to be the DMV top team.

MadLax had 30+ kids on the sidelines today. maybe 20 saw the field, including his own kid, who never comes off and yet is wayyyy too small and of average skill to be playing at that level of competition. In another life he must've run a three card monte stand.

So the rumor is that he's going to reclass and go to Episcopal for 9th grade. He's then going back to Landon to repeat 9th grade (Landon allows holdbacks but you can't repeat the same year at Landon i.e., 2 9th grade years at Landon) because of Cabell being personally and financial connected to Landon through ML.

That is a smart plan. Look at the Princeton Freshman who went from Episcopal to Prep or the Duke goalie who reclassed at Epsicopal or Millon who is a reclass. The list goes on. Most of the top players went this route.

Did you just put that kid next to a goalie at Duke or the number one recruit last year? Have you ever actually seen him play? What CBD shop do you go to?

Criticize CM all you want but we should leave the kid out of it.

That’s hard to do when the criticism is that he plays his son the whole game, when the roster is over 30, and the son is a weaker player than others on the bench.

Just do your best not to be an asshat

So, wring money from gullible parents to subsidize your lifestyle AND your middling-talented kids’ playing time, and then hide behind said kids for doing same. Got it.

Yes, that's club lacrosse everywhere. Any time a roster is over 21, the club is milking parents. To me, if you're kid isn't starting at attack or defense or on the first two middie lines, he's on the wrong club and should leave immediately. Same goes if your kid is stuck behind the coach's kid. Why pay all that money to not play much?

Correct me wherever as I'm out of the loop:
4 att
6 O-mid
4 close D
2 FO
2 G
2 lsm
3 ssdm

That's 23. Every kid could be getting tons of time and many barely making it through a summer weekend. Repeat next weekend. An injury or 2 and you may even be short. Why would having 21 be the cutoff for milking people?

At the younger ages (through 7-8th grade), you don't need any SSDM. So maybe you don't need all of those kids. As stated below, you can also have some overlap - especially at your attack/O-middie spots. With offensive lax moving to positionless offense, you can have attack also play some middie by running one of them out of the box. u can drop 1-3 of those player. Some of your middies can be your back up FOGO or just FO and stay (how it should be through 8th grade). You can also get away with only 1 goalie.

So the proposal is to show up to multiple tourneys, with some kids potentially on vacay, sick or hurt making the numbers even smaller, with a roster of 15-17 guys? Play a bunch of games in the heat and then do it again next weekend? What would the benefit of this be if you could run a roster of 23 and everyone gets a lot of time over 4-5 games? So the fogo can take 60 or more faceoffs in a weekend? I hope the kids are all ironmen.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Yes, you can "get away" with all of those things. If players go down or can't make it. It's suboptimal if your one goalie can't make it 100% through all your games, e.g.

The point I was asking/addressing is what is milking by clubs? If teams/coaches take 21 or 23 or 27 guys and only play 15, then they're milking the bench guys. But it's pretty easy to have any lower 20's number get lots of burn.

Honestly, yes. 18 is probably optimal for playing time. We are talking about 40 minute running clock games. I get why you want to include more but in reality, once yoy get to 20+ you are talking money grabs over anything else.

Ok thanks for a number and the reply. Who is not getting enough time in my original scenario?

[Anonymous]

They announced the coaches for the VLC 28 team - Tyler Zinck (Battlefield assistant coach) and Andrew Cook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCE having more success- finishing 4-1 at Naptown

Plus they went 3-2 at NLF and 4-1 at NAL. Not a bad summer so far.

Certainly better than madlax/supremes. I think DCE is the favorite to be the DMV top team.

MadLax had 30+ kids on the sidelines today. maybe 20 saw the field, including his own kid, who never comes off and yet is wayyyy too small and of average skill to be playing at that level of competition. In another life he must've run a three card monte stand.

So the rumor is that he's going to reclass and go to Episcopal for 9th grade. He's then going back to Landon to repeat 9th grade (Landon allows holdbacks but you can't repeat the same year at Landon i.e., 2 9th grade years at Landon) because of Cabell being personally and financial connected to Landon through ML.

That is a smart plan. Look at the Princeton Freshman who went from Episcopal to Prep or the Duke goalie who reclassed at Epsicopal or Millon who is a reclass. The list goes on. Most of the top players went this route.

Did you just put that kid next to a goalie at Duke or the number one recruit last year? Have you ever actually seen him play? What CBD shop do you go to?

Criticize CM all you want but we should leave the kid out of it.

That’s hard to do when the criticism is that he plays his son the whole game, when the roster is over 30, and the son is a weaker player than others on the bench.

Just do your best not to be an asshat

So, wring money from gullible parents to subsidize your lifestyle AND your middling-talented kids’ playing time, and then hide behind said kids for doing same. Got it.

Yes, that's club lacrosse everywhere. Any time a roster is over 21, the club is milking parents. To me, if you're kid isn't starting at attack or defense or on the first two middie lines, he's on the wrong club and should leave immediately. Same goes if your kid is stuck behind the coach's kid. Why pay all that money to not play much?

Correct me wherever as I'm out of the loop:
4 att
6 O-mid
4 close D
2 FO
2 G
2 lsm
3 ssdm

That's 23. Every kid could be getting tons of time and many barely making it through a summer weekend. Repeat next weekend. An injury or 2 and you may even be short. Why would having 21 be the cutoff for milking people?

At the younger ages (through 7-8th grade), you don't need any SSDM. So maybe you don't need all of those kids. As stated below, you can also have some overlap - especially at your attack/O-middie spots. With offensive lax moving to positionless offense, you can have attack also play some middie by running one of them out of the box. u can drop 1-3 of those player. Some of your middies can be your back up FOGO or just FO and stay (how it should be through 8th grade). You can also get away with only 1 goalie.

So the proposal is to show up to multiple tourneys, with some kids potentially on vacay, sick or hurt making the numbers even smaller, with a roster of 15-17 guys? Play a bunch of games in the heat and then do it again next weekend? What would the benefit of this be if you could run a roster of 23 and everyone gets a lot of time over 4-5 games? So the fogo can take 60 or more faceoffs in a weekend? I hope the kids are all ironmen.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Yes, you can "get away" with all of those things. If players go down or can't make it. It's suboptimal if your one goalie can't make it 100% through all your games, e.g.

The point I was asking/addressing is what is milking by clubs? If teams/coaches take 21 or 23 or 27 guys and only play 15, then they're milking the bench guys. But it's pretty easy to have any lower 20's number get lots of burn.

Honestly, yes. 18 is probably optimal for playing time. We are talking about 40 minute running clock games. I get why you want to include more but in reality, once yoy get to 20+ you are talking money grabs over anything else.

Ok thanks for a number and the reply. Who is not getting enough time in my original scenario?

In 40 minute running time game w/o a shot clock, how many back up FOGOs do you need? You don't need that 2nd LSM, you can use your 5th dpole in that position (or the reverse). Same with the 4th attackman. How much time is that kid getting that couldn't be duplicated by a 2nd line middie that probably should be playing attack anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They announced the coaches for the VLC 28 team - Tyler Zinck (Battlefield assistant coach) and Andrew Cook.

Nice coaches Cook was a tremendous player. D3 AA I believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They announced the coaches for the VLC 28 team - Tyler Zinck (Battlefield assistant coach) and Andrew Cook.

Nice coaches Cook was a tremendous player. D3 AA I believe.

there simply are not enough 28 kids in the areas who play to field a team. At best this will end up a mixed team, but most likely will flop.

[Anonymous]

I thought the same would happen to VLC 2027, but they are going strong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought the same would happen to VLC 2027, but they are going strong.

the difference is VLC never lost the 27s entirely. However VLC managed to poss off not one, but two teams with of NoVA families and haven’t had a team in 2 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They announced the coaches for the VLC 28 team - Tyler Zinck (Battlefield assistant coach) and Andrew Cook.

Nice coaches Cook was a tremendous player. D3 AA I believe.

This may get kids from Prince William County, but good luck getting kids from Fairfax County to join. Last year they could not get enough at tryouts with Coach Dico. I just think the 2028 is going to be the black eye for VLC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They announced the coaches for the VLC 28 team - Tyler Zinck (Battlefield assistant coach) and Andrew Cook.

Nice coaches Cook was a tremendous player. D3 AA I believe.

This may get kids from Prince William County, but good luck getting kids from Fairfax County to join. Last year they could not get enough at tryouts with Coach Dico. I just think the 2028 is going to be the black eye for VLC.

You may be right but I hope you’re wrong. The loss of VLC CAVs and true Chesapeake has made the 28 class the most unstable and least happy classes that I’ve ever heard of. I think this is the best chance to right size all these teams

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They announced the coaches for the VLC 28 team - Tyler Zinck (Battlefield assistant coach) and Andrew Cook.

Nice coaches Cook was a tremendous player. D3 AA I believe.

This may get kids from Prince William County, but good luck getting kids from Fairfax County to join. Last year they could not get enough at tryouts with Coach Dico. I just think the 2028 is going to be the black eye for VLC.

You may be right but I hope you’re wrong. The loss of VLC CAVs and true Chesapeake has made the 28 class the most unstable and least happy classes that I’ve ever heard of. I think this is the best chance to right size all these teams

once again WHERE will they get the bodies to play? i’ve had a 28 playing since first grade and the 28s have always been the smallest pool in every single tournament play we have been in. only way to do it is to scrape thru extra few that’s riding the bench off each of the 28 teams out there. Look at what true loudoun just tried. miserable flop. it was a “28” team filled mostly with 29s.