Key bridge in Baltimore collapses after cargo ship crashes into it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you got out of the car, you are in the middle of a huge river! How are you swimming to safety? What about the infant in the car seat?

I used to drive my kids back and forth from VA to MD several times a week and would keep their life jackets in the car because I am a little paranoid. I'm also a bridge engineer and have an unnatural fear of such an incident. We don't go as frequently anymore, but I'm gonna put them back in the car.

Where do you store them? Life jackets aren't small, and it's not like having them in the trunk is helpful. I am truly trying to wrap my head around how this would work. So car goes off bridge, you have all windows rolled up so you have plenty of time to unbuckle the kids from their car seats and get them into the life jackets and then, are you manually rolling down your car's windows? Do you have a 1982 Civic?

And they are doing this with an opened airbag in their face and pressing them against their seat. The force of a car dropping from that height onto the water would definitely open the air bags. So, PP would have to survive the impact, unlock their seat belt under the airbag, and climb into the back seat while fighting the airbag to get into the back seat before they could even start to work on getting their child out of the carseat and all of that before finding the lifevests and putting them on both her and her child. Not very realistic. that this would work in this instance.

That said, those who open their windows are also not accounting for handling the airbag while trying to get out of their car. With the water coming in, they'll only have seconds to fight the airbag, get the seatbelt undone and exit the window, figure up from down and start to swim in the right direction, while dodging debris from the bridge that collapsed on top of them.

None of these "precautions" are very likely to help in the event of such an accident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you got out of the car, you are in the middle of a huge river! How are you swimming to safety? What about the infant in the car seat?

I used to drive my kids back and forth from VA to MD several times a week and would keep their life jackets in the car because I am a little paranoid. I'm also a bridge engineer and have an unnatural fear of such an incident. We don't go as frequently anymore, but I'm gonna put them back in the car.

that was an unexpected plot twist

You'd think as an engineer you would have an understanding of the rarity of this kind of thing happening. I mean, does someone have the statistics on how many people are killed annually by bridge collapses? I'm guessing a million other things rank much higher.

I believe these are government employees that have never had to make a cost-benefit or risk analysis. Remember, if it saves just one person...

What are the chances of a life jacket saving anyone in the event of your car falling off a bridge into water? You have a few seconds, at most, to unbuckle car seats/seat belts, open car doors and windows, put on life jacket for yourself and your kids, all while violently falling through the air/being bumped around the inside of the vehicle, potentially w debris and/or other vehicles hitting you and becoming submerged in water. I’m just trying to understand how you would even be able to/have time to get a life jacket on in this scenario.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you got out of the car, you are in the middle of a huge river! How are you swimming to safety? What about the infant in the car seat?

I used to drive my kids back and forth from VA to MD several times a week and would keep their life jackets in the car because I am a little paranoid. I'm also a bridge engineer and have an unnatural fear of such an incident. We don't go as frequently anymore, but I'm gonna put them back in the car.

Where do you store them? Life jackets aren't small, and it's not like having them in the trunk is helpful. I am truly trying to wrap my head around how this would work. So car goes off bridge, you have all windows rolled up so you have plenty of time to unbuckle the kids from their car seats and get them into the life jackets and then, are you manually rolling down your car's windows? Do you have a 1982 Civic?

And they are doing this with an opened airbag in their face and pressing them against their seat. The force of a car dropping from that height onto the water would definitely open the air bags. So, PP would have to survive the impact, unlock their seat belt under the airbag, and climb into the back seat while fighting the airbag to get into the back seat before they could even start to work on getting their child out of the carseat and all of that before finding the lifevests and putting them on both her and her child. Not very realistic. that this would work in this instance.

That said, those who open their windows are also not accounting for handling the airbag while trying to get out of their car. With the water coming in, they'll only have seconds to fight the airbag, get the seatbelt undone and exit the window, figure up from down and start to swim in the right direction, while dodging debris from the bridge that collapsed on top of them.

None of these "precautions" are very likely to help in the event of such an accident.

They’d also have to get both kids in life jackets out of a window.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you got out of the car, you are in the middle of a huge river! How are you swimming to safety? What about the infant in the car seat?

I used to drive my kids back and forth from VA to MD several times a week and would keep their life jackets in the car because I am a little paranoid. I'm also a bridge engineer and have an unnatural fear of such an incident. We don't go as frequently anymore, but I'm gonna put them back in the car.

that was an unexpected plot twist

You'd think as an engineer you would have an understanding of the rarity of this kind of thing happening. I mean, does someone have the statistics on how many people are killed annually by bridge collapses? I'm guessing a million other things rank much higher.

I believe these are government employees that have never had to make a cost-benefit or risk analysis. Remember, if it saves just one person...

What are the chances of a life jacket saving anyone in the event of your car falling off a bridge into water? You have a few seconds, at most, to unbuckle car seats/seat belts, open car doors and windows, put on life jacket for yourself and your kids, all while violently falling through the air/being bumped around the inside of the vehicle, potentially w debris and/or other vehicles hitting you and becoming submerged in water. I’m just trying to understand how you would even be able to/have time to get a life jacket on in this scenario.

The argument is "but what if it did help, even just a little bit" and then we wind up with a vocal minority creating useless safety measures, like mandatory lifejackets in cars. They work on airplanes after all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would swim away

Huh?

I did the Bay Bridge swim but started on the beach. Half way through I turned on my back and looked up at the bridge - boy, was it high. Hitting the water from that height would be like hitting concrete.

So many factors would impede you from swimming: force of impact onto water in your vehicle (like hitting concrete), injuries sustained upon impact including loss of consciousness, the force of suction pulling your car underwater, inability to escape from vehicle, injured by debris once in the water (eg. you managed to escape vehicle 20-30 feet below water, but there's no light/visibility, and you keep hitting steel beams as you try to ascend to the surface or even get pinned underwater by sinking debris), etc.

Vast majority of people would not survive this bridge collapse. I'm so curious about the person who survived with no injuries! Luckiest person alive, tbh. I bet it's someone young and healthy.

I've read more about that. I think it was a construction worker. He was examined too and found no injuries but he was adamant that he refused transport to the hospital. Sadly reading between the lines I think he must have been an illegal immigrant and didn't want to get involved with authorities.

Or, like many people, his job provides shitty insurance and he can't afford an ambulance ride and hospital stay just for them to tell him he's okay.

Yes, don’t assume he is undocumented. I wouldn’t call an ambulance for much -like I would have to not be able to drive. I have insurance and an ambulance ride was $2k when my DH called one for our child’s broken arm. I couldn’t believe he didn’t drive to the hospital.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why in 2024 we still have boats and ships, but with administration anything is possible..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you got out of the car, you are in the middle of a huge river! How are you swimming to safety? What about the infant in the car seat?

I used to drive my kids back and forth from VA to MD several times a week and would keep their life jackets in the car because I am a little paranoid. I'm also a bridge engineer and have an unnatural fear of such an incident. We don't go as frequently anymore, but I'm gonna put them back in the car.

Where do you store them? Life jackets aren't small, and it's not like having them in the trunk is helpful. I am truly trying to wrap my head around how this would work. So car goes off bridge, you have all windows rolled up so you have plenty of time to unbuckle the kids from their car seats and get them into the life jackets and then, are you manually rolling down your car's windows? Do you have a 1982 Civic?

And they are doing this with an opened airbag in their face and pressing them against their seat. The force of a car dropping from that height onto the water would definitely open the air bags. So, PP would have to survive the impact, unlock their seat belt under the airbag, and climb into the back seat while fighting the airbag to get into the back seat before they could even start to work on getting their child out of the carseat and all of that before finding the lifevests and putting them on both her and her child. Not very realistic. that this would work in this instance.

That said, those who open their windows are also not accounting for handling the airbag while trying to get out of their car. With the water coming in, they'll only have seconds to fight the airbag, get the seatbelt undone and exit the window, figure up from down and start to swim in the right direction, while dodging debris from the bridge that collapsed on top of them.

None of these "precautions" are very likely to help in the event of such an accident.

They’d also have to get both kids in life jackets out of a window.

Exactly, it’s just too much unless you’re a trained escape artist. This is why I (PP from earlier) acknowledged if this happened and my kid was strapped in the backseat of the car I’d just have to die. I probably wouldn’t be able to resist trying to save my kids but it just seems impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you got out of the car, you are in the middle of a huge river! How are you swimming to safety? What about the infant in the car seat?

I used to drive my kids back and forth from VA to MD several times a week and would keep their life jackets in the car because I am a little paranoid. I'm also a bridge engineer and have an unnatural fear of such an incident. We don't go as frequently anymore, but I'm gonna put them back in the car.

that was an unexpected plot twist

You'd think as an engineer you would have an understanding of the rarity of this kind of thing happening. I mean, does someone have the statistics on how many people are killed annually by bridge collapses? I'm guessing a million other things rank much higher.

I believe these are government employees that have never had to make a cost-benefit or risk analysis. Remember, if it saves just one person...

What are the chances of a life jacket saving anyone in the event of your car falling off a bridge into water? You have a few seconds, at most, to unbuckle car seats/seat belts, open car doors and windows, put on life jacket for yourself and your kids, all while violently falling through the air/being bumped around the inside of the vehicle, potentially w debris and/or other vehicles hitting you and becoming submerged in water. I’m just trying to understand how you would even be able to/have time to get a life jacket on in this scenario.

I could definitely see a market for a car seat with a built in airbag or other floatation device that allows the car seat to surface to the air on its own. Maybe similar to the airbags used by backcountry skiers to survive avalanches.

Car is filling with water, you get to the back seat and unlatch the car seat from the anchors. Once the pressure equalizes, you open the backdoor, activate the airbag, and push out your kid's car seat (with kid still strapped in). Kid floats to the surface. This also allows the adults to better focus on their own safety once they escape the underwater vehicle and don't have to worry about trying to surface while holding a squirmy kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Who are these geniuses who think you can open a door or window underwater??

A manual roll-up window would open just fine. Unfortunately, most cars have motorized windows now and the chances of them working when the car is submerged are low to zero.

Ohhhhh your arm strength is greater than tons of water pressure ?
Anything you say David Banner!

Np. So can you NEVER open or break a window (or car door) under water? I see this hammer tools being sold? Or I swear I saw a myth buster episode or something that showed you can do it once the water in the car equalized to that outside of the car? Is that not right?

Because that knowledge is the only thing that makes me not panic on a bridge crossing.

Help a girl out with the knowledge.

WaPo has an article on this today. They said the thing to do is get your seatbelt off and lower your window. Do those things in the first minute. No time to mess around with looking for a tool plus they don’t work.

Also 1000 kgs is a metric ton. Very common unit

They’ve done tests. The linked tool is garbage. Its ineffective against water pressure and actually ineffective for its intended use on dry land in many cases bc of the increased uses of much stronger types of laminated glass which don’t shatter when hit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you got out of the car, you are in the middle of a huge river! How are you swimming to safety? What about the infant in the car seat?

I used to drive my kids back and forth from VA to MD several times a week and would keep their life jackets in the car because I am a little paranoid. I'm also a bridge engineer and have an unnatural fear of such an incident. We don't go as frequently anymore, but I'm gonna put them back in the car.

Where do you store them? Life jackets aren't small, and it's not like having them in the trunk is helpful. I am truly trying to wrap my head around how this would work. So car goes off bridge, you have all windows rolled up so you have plenty of time to unbuckle the kids from their car seats and get them into the life jackets and then, are you manually rolling down your car's windows? Do you have a 1982 Civic?

And they are doing this with an opened airbag in their face and pressing them against their seat. The force of a car dropping from that height onto the water would definitely open the air bags. So, PP would have to survive the impact, unlock their seat belt under the airbag, and climb into the back seat while fighting the airbag to get into the back seat before they could even start to work on getting their child out of the carseat and all of that before finding the lifevests and putting them on both her and her child. Not very realistic. that this would work in this instance.

That said, those who open their windows are also not accounting for handling the airbag while trying to get out of their car. With the water coming in, they'll only have seconds to fight the airbag, get the seatbelt undone and exit the window, figure up from down and start to swim in the right direction, while dodging debris from the bridge that collapsed on top of them.

None of these "precautions" are very likely to help in the event of such an accident.

In fairness, airbags inflate and deflate “in the blink of an eye,” and would not present much of an obstacle to “manage.” It’s not like the poor driver would be getting pressed into the seat by an inflated air mattress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why in 2024 we still have boats and ships, but with administration anything is possible..

Oh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you got out of the car, you are in the middle of a huge river! How are you swimming to safety? What about the infant in the car seat?

I used to drive my kids back and forth from VA to MD several times a week and would keep their life jackets in the car because I am a little paranoid. I'm also a bridge engineer and have an unnatural fear of such an incident. We don't go as frequently anymore, but I'm gonna put them back in the car.

that was an unexpected plot twist

You'd think as an engineer you would have an understanding of the rarity of this kind of thing happening. I mean, does someone have the statistics on how many people are killed annually by bridge collapses? I'm guessing a million other things rank much higher.

I believe these are government employees that have never had to make a cost-benefit or risk analysis. Remember, if it saves just one person...

What are the chances of a life jacket saving anyone in the event of your car falling off a bridge into water? You have a few seconds, at most, to unbuckle car seats/seat belts, open car doors and windows, put on life jacket for yourself and your kids, all while violently falling through the air/being bumped around the inside of the vehicle, potentially w debris and/or other vehicles hitting you and becoming submerged in water. I’m just trying to understand how you would even be able to/have time to get a life jacket on in this scenario.

I could definitely see a market for a car seat with a built in airbag or other floatation device that allows the car seat to surface to the air on its own. Maybe similar to the airbags used by backcountry skiers to survive avalanches.

Car is filling with water, you get to the back seat and unlatch the car seat from the anchors. Once the pressure equalizes, you open the backdoor, activate the airbag, and push out your kid's car seat (with kid still strapped in). Kid floats to the surface. This also allows the adults to better focus on their own safety once they escape the underwater vehicle and don't have to worry about trying to surface while holding a squirmy kid.

In the demonstration video posted on the second or third page, the pressure didn't equalize enough to open the door until well after the driver ran out of air. They said the car would essentially need to be resting on the bottom before that happens. That's a long time in deep water.

FYI, here's the WaPo article from this morning: https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/tips/car-underwater-escape-bridge-collapse/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you got out of the car, you are in the middle of a huge river! How are you swimming to safety? What about the infant in the car seat?

I used to drive my kids back and forth from VA to MD several times a week and would keep their life jackets in the car because I am a little paranoid. I'm also a bridge engineer and have an unnatural fear of such an incident. We don't go as frequently anymore, but I'm gonna put them back in the car.

that was an unexpected plot twist

You'd think as an engineer you would have an understanding of the rarity of this kind of thing happening. I mean, does someone have the statistics on how many people are killed annually by bridge collapses? I'm guessing a million other things rank much higher.

I believe these are government employees that have never had to make a cost-benefit or risk analysis. Remember, if it saves just one person...

What are the chances of a life jacket saving anyone in the event of your car falling off a bridge into water? You have a few seconds, at most, to unbuckle car seats/seat belts, open car doors and windows, put on life jacket for yourself and your kids, all while violently falling through the air/being bumped around the inside of the vehicle, potentially w debris and/or other vehicles hitting you and becoming submerged in water. I’m just trying to understand how you would even be able to/have time to get a life jacket on in this scenario.

I could definitely see a market for a car seat with a built in airbag or other floatation device that allows the car seat to surface to the air on its own. Maybe similar to the airbags used by backcountry skiers to survive avalanches.

Car is filling with water, you get to the back seat and unlatch the car seat from the anchors. Once the pressure equalizes, you open the backdoor, activate the airbag, and push out your kid's car seat (with kid still strapped in). Kid floats to the surface. This also allows the adults to better focus on their own safety once they escape the underwater vehicle and don't have to worry about trying to surface while holding a squirmy kid.

How many times a year would this be used? What would be the additional cost and development time for such a product?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you got out of the car, you are in the middle of a huge river! How are you swimming to safety? What about the infant in the car seat?

I used to drive my kids back and forth from VA to MD several times a week and would keep their life jackets in the car because I am a little paranoid. I'm also a bridge engineer and have an unnatural fear of such an incident. We don't go as frequently anymore, but I'm gonna put them back in the car.

that was an unexpected plot twist

You'd think as an engineer you would have an understanding of the rarity of this kind of thing happening. I mean, does someone have the statistics on how many people are killed annually by bridge collapses? I'm guessing a million other things rank much higher.

I believe these are government employees that have never had to make a cost-benefit or risk analysis. Remember, if it saves just one person...

What are the chances of a life jacket saving anyone in the event of your car falling off a bridge into water? You have a few seconds, at most, to unbuckle car seats/seat belts, open car doors and windows, put on life jacket for yourself and your kids, all while violently falling through the air/being bumped around the inside of the vehicle, potentially w debris and/or other vehicles hitting you and becoming submerged in water. I’m just trying to understand how you would even be able to/have time to get a life jacket on in this scenario.

I could definitely see a market for a car seat with a built in airbag or other floatation device that allows the car seat to surface to the air on its own. Maybe similar to the airbags used by backcountry skiers to survive avalanches.

Car is filling with water, you get to the back seat and unlatch the car seat from the anchors. Once the pressure equalizes, you open the backdoor, activate the airbag, and push out your kid's car seat (with kid still strapped in). Kid floats to the surface. This also allows the adults to better focus on their own safety once they escape the underwater vehicle and don't have to worry about trying to surface while holding a squirmy kid.

Except “waiting for pressure to equalize” is not advised. By the time it equalizes you will be underwater and running out of oxygen. And small kids definitely will be in trouble since they don’t know to take a deep breath and have less lung capacity,

[Anonymous]

Here's the link again:

It's not clear if any or how many cars may have been plunged into the water. This Topgear video opened my eyes to how things would probably go - basically forget about waiting for the car to fill up with water, etc. Just get the heck out as fast as you can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-hADcZ49fE