Key bridge in Baltimore collapses after cargo ship crashes into it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you got out of the car, you are in the middle of a huge river! How are you swimming to safety? What about the infant in the car seat?

I used to drive my kids back and forth from VA to MD several times a week and would keep their life jackets in the car because I am a little paranoid. I'm also a bridge engineer and have an unnatural fear of such an incident. We don't go as frequently anymore, but I'm gonna put them back in the car.

Where do you store them? Life jackets aren't small, and it's not like having them in the trunk is helpful. I am truly trying to wrap my head around how this would work. So car goes off bridge, you have all windows rolled up so you have plenty of time to unbuckle the kids from their car seats and get them into the life jackets and then, are you manually rolling down your car's windows? Do you have a 1982 Civic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you got out of the car, you are in the middle of a huge river! How are you swimming to safety? What about the infant in the car seat?

I used to drive my kids back and forth from VA to MD several times a week and would keep their life jackets in the car because I am a little paranoid. I'm also a bridge engineer and have an unnatural fear of such an incident. We don't go as frequently anymore, but I'm gonna put them back in the car.

that was an unexpected plot twist

You'd think as an engineer you would have an understanding of the rarity of this kind of thing happening. I mean, does someone have the statistics on how many people are killed annually by bridge collapses? I'm guessing a million other things rank much higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to see the 'receipts'. These ships have redundancies to prevent this type of things - back up generators, etc. Crews are not the best - tend to panic and not well-trained - but the captain is.

If only we had a federal agency(ies) that would investigate this….

Yeah, the Feds are so reliable these days.

as opposed to who, the Qanon nut-jobs conspiracy theorists on X? If you don't have any faith in the different local, state and federal authorities that will be investigating this and are already there, then you should just move somewhere else.

People are dead here. Likely undocumented people who had to work as independent contractors for some crap pay for a middle of the night pot hole repair job. These are the people who are missing. These are the people who rushed to close the bridge when warned, saving countless others.

WTAF is wrong with you?

Very well said. Thank you.

+1 a truly heartbreaking event

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Also, you can simply open the doors if they are unlocked

No you cannot simply open the doors.

This thread is really showing the public's knowledge, or lack thereof, of basic science on so many levels.

It's akin to people asking why dolphins couldn't rescue the people on the Titan submersible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you got out of the car, you are in the middle of a huge river! How are you swimming to safety? What about the infant in the car seat?

I used to drive my kids back and forth from VA to MD several times a week and would keep their life jackets in the car because I am a little paranoid. I'm also a bridge engineer and have an unnatural fear of such an incident. We don't go as frequently anymore, but I'm gonna put them back in the car.

that was an unexpected plot twist

You'd think as an engineer you would have an understanding of the rarity of this kind of thing happening. I mean, does someone have the statistics on how many people are killed annually by bridge collapses? I'm guessing a million other things rank much higher.

From 1960 to 2015, there were 35 major bridge collapses worldwide due to ship or barge collision, with a total of 342 people killed, according to a 2018 report from the World Association for Waterborne Transport Infrastructure. Eighteen of those collapses happened in the United States.

https://apnews.com/article/bridge-collapses-barges-list-1f2d6261d523ddc625aaaf3b32c626bc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live on the ESMD on the Bay and according to my navy and coast guard friends out here: the boat was experiencing repeated power failures from the short time it was released from the tugs after it left the port. Without power the navigation system won’t work and you cannot steer it and hence the boat will drift. The crew then tried to force the throttle to get it back on course and avoid a collision which is why there is thick black smoke seen coming from the boat before it gets to the bridge. The boat did contact MTA/the bridge which has its headquarters at the north end of the bridge in Dundalk to indicate they believed it would collide with the bridge but there wasn’t enough time IRT to then close the bridge to traffic before it was struck.

The ship was FULL of thousands (yes, thousands) of containers. The weight is incredible. You cannot do sharp turns or sudden stops on this. It also is so heavy it would do this to almost any bridge if collided.

Every single container ship that sails on the Bay, anywhere from Virginia Beach to Baltimore, must have a local bay captain on board while it’s on the bay to navigate the ship. There was one on this ship as well.

Ships are being re-routed to the port of Philadelphia.

Virginia Beach is on the Atlantic, Norfolk is on the Bay. Hence why Virginia Beach isn't a port. But carry on.

[Anonymous]

Momentum is newton * sec. A newton is kg m/s^2.

Right, but "tons" is an imperial unit (actually, several different units) and needs to be converted to kilograms first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would swim away

Huh?

I did the Bay Bridge swim but started on the beach. Half way through I turned on my back and looked up at the bridge - boy, was it high. Hitting the water from that height would be like hitting concrete.

So many factors would impede you from swimming: force of impact onto water in your vehicle (like hitting concrete), injuries sustained upon impact including loss of consciousness, the force of suction pulling your car underwater, inability to escape from vehicle, injured by debris once in the water (eg. you managed to escape vehicle 20-30 feet below water, but there's no light/visibility, and you keep hitting steel beams as you try to ascend to the surface or even get pinned underwater by sinking debris), etc.

Vast majority of people would not survive this bridge collapse. I'm so curious about the person who survived with no injuries! Luckiest person alive, tbh. I bet it's someone young and healthy.

I've read more about that. I think it was a construction worker. He was examined too and found no injuries but he was adamant that he refused transport to the hospital. Sadly reading between the lines I think he must have been an illegal immigrant and didn't want to get involved with authorities.

Or, like many people, his job provides shitty insurance and he can't afford an ambulance ride and hospital stay just for them to tell him he's okay.

[Anonymous]

Depends from how high you fall. The video posted on page 3 (not by me) shows that if it's a short fall, you have some time when the windows are closed and can open the door as long as it's not completely submerged.
The car that fell off the Bay Bridge in 2013 fell on its side and smashed open a window and that's how the driver swam out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live on the ESMD on the Bay and according to my navy and coast guard friends out here: the boat was experiencing repeated power failures from the short time it was released from the tugs after it left the port. Without power the navigation system won’t work and you cannot steer it and hence the boat will drift. The crew then tried to force the throttle to get it back on course and avoid a collision which is why there is thick black smoke seen coming from the boat before it gets to the bridge. The boat did contact MTA/the bridge which has its headquarters at the north end of the bridge in Dundalk to indicate they believed it would collide with the bridge but there wasn’t enough time IRT to then close the bridge to traffic before it was struck.

The ship was FULL of thousands (yes, thousands) of containers. The weight is incredible. You cannot do sharp turns or sudden stops on this. It also is so heavy it would do this to almost any bridge if collided.

Every single container ship that sails on the Bay, anywhere from Virginia Beach to Baltimore, must have a local bay captain on board while it’s on the bay to navigate the ship. There was one on this ship as well.

Ships are being re-routed to the port of Philadelphia.

Virginia Beach is on the Atlantic, Norfolk is on the Bay. Hence why Virginia Beach isn't a port. But carry on.

You understand that the Bay is also on the Virginia Beach shoreline. OMG.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live on the ESMD on the Bay and according to my navy and coast guard friends out here: the boat was experiencing repeated power failures from the short time it was released from the tugs after it left the port. Without power the navigation system won’t work and you cannot steer it and hence the boat will drift. The crew then tried to force the throttle to get it back on course and avoid a collision which is why there is thick black smoke seen coming from the boat before it gets to the bridge. The boat did contact MTA/the bridge which has its headquarters at the north end of the bridge in Dundalk to indicate they believed it would collide with the bridge but there wasn’t enough time IRT to then close the bridge to traffic before it was struck.

The ship was FULL of thousands (yes, thousands) of containers. The weight is incredible. You cannot do sharp turns or sudden stops on this. It also is so heavy it would do this to almost any bridge if collided.

Every single container ship that sails on the Bay, anywhere from Virginia Beach to Baltimore, must have a local bay captain on board while it’s on the bay to navigate the ship. There was one on this ship as well.

Ships are being re-routed to the port of Philadelphia.

Virginia Beach is on the Atlantic, Norfolk is on the Bay. Hence why Virginia Beach isn't a port. But carry on.

You understand that the Bay is also on the Virginia Beach shoreline. OMG.

Virginia Beach is not a port. Norfolk is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Who are these geniuses who think you can open a door or window underwater??

A manual roll-up window would open just fine. Unfortunately, most cars have motorized windows now and the chances of them working when the car is submerged are low to zero.

Ohhhhh your arm strength is greater than tons of water pressure ?
Anything you say David Banner!

Np. So can you NEVER open or break a window (or car door) under water? I see this hammer tools being sold? Or I swear I saw a myth buster episode or something that showed you can do it once the water in the car equalized to that outside of the car? Is that not right?

Because that knowledge is the only thing that makes me not panic on a bridge crossing.

Help a girl out with the knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Who are these geniuses who think you can open a door or window underwater??

A manual roll-up window would open just fine. Unfortunately, most cars have motorized windows now and the chances of them working when the car is submerged are low to zero.

Ohhhhh your arm strength is greater than tons of water pressure ?
Anything you say David Banner!

Np. So can you NEVER open or break a window (or car door) under water? I see this hammer tools being sold? Or I swear I saw a myth buster episode or something that showed you can do it once the water in the car equalized to that outside of the car? Is that not right?

Because that knowledge is the only thing that makes me not panic on a bridge crossing.

Help a girl out with the knowledge.

WaPo has an article on this today. They said the thing to do is get your seatbelt off and lower your window. Do those things in the first minute. No time to mess around with looking for a tool plus they don’t work.

Also 1000 kgs is a metric ton. Very common unit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live on the ESMD on the Bay and according to my navy and coast guard friends out here: the boat was experiencing repeated power failures from the short time it was released from the tugs after it left the port. Without power the navigation system won’t work and you cannot steer it and hence the boat will drift. The crew then tried to force the throttle to get it back on course and avoid a collision which is why there is thick black smoke seen coming from the boat before it gets to the bridge. The boat did contact MTA/the bridge which has its headquarters at the north end of the bridge in Dundalk to indicate they believed it would collide with the bridge but there wasn’t enough time IRT to then close the bridge to traffic before it was struck.

The ship was FULL of thousands (yes, thousands) of containers. The weight is incredible. You cannot do sharp turns or sudden stops on this. It also is so heavy it would do this to almost any bridge if collided.

Every single container ship that sails on the Bay, anywhere from Virginia Beach to Baltimore, must have a local bay captain on board while it’s on the bay to navigate the ship. There was one on this ship as well.

Ships are being re-routed to the port of Philadelphia.

Virginia Beach is on the Atlantic, Norfolk is on the Bay. Hence why Virginia Beach isn't a port. But carry on.

Oh good lord - sometimes it's OK not to comment.
Virginia Beach isn't a port. But it is where the bay meets the ocean, and where the first local bay pilot boards (or last disembarks, depending on direction)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Also, you can simply open the doors if they are unlocked

No you cannot simply open the doors.

This thread is really showing the public's knowledge, or lack thereof, of basic science on so many levels.

It's akin to people asking why dolphins couldn't rescue the people on the Titan submersible.

I completely agree. Thank you for the chuckle!