Are top private colleges mainly for poor people now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Often 2/3 of students at top ranked schools are getting need based aid that covers the vast majority of costs, on average.

200k is the typical cut off for need based aid (about the income level of a couple of school teachers at the peak of their careers aka “the wealthy”)

It just seems these schools must be populated primarily with lower income kids and then 1/3 rich kids.

I guess middle class kids end up at state school.

Poverty line is $35k per year. Median American income is $69k. $200 k annual warning is top 10% nationally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re free to quit your job if being poor is so awesome. *Crickets*

I suspect a lot of families do somehow game the financial aid system this way. Like maybe one parent stops working. Getting 320k of aid bears a pre tax income of 80k or whatever

No, they shuffle assets around to hide their wealth. Actual MC people don't quit working to get more financial aid, because that also messes with retirement, health insurance, etc. You people have no idea what not being UMC/rich is like. And most colleges don't meet financial need with pure scholarship. It just means more loans.

Yes. This is why we have the student loan crisis right now.

My generation (elder millennial - born in '82 & graduated high school in '00) had it drilled into our heads that if we did not go to college, we would not be successful in life. So many times I had high school teachers tell us "it doesn't matter where you go to school or what degree you get, just go to a college and get a degree - any degree!" So we did. We all did. Out of my graduating class of 294, only around 12 kids did not go to any college (2-yr or 4-yr) after graduation. When I expressed doubt to my guidance counselor about being able to go to a 4-year school because my family couldn't afford it, she provided me with all kinds of information on loans. They were no big deal! Why? Because when you graduate from college with that degree, you'll be making $$$ and can quickly pay them back!

Stressing that every person needed a college degree to be successful flooded the college system & produced too many college grads. So what happened then? Jobs that didn't previously require a college degree started requiring them (receptionists, admin assistants, accounting clerks, etc.). And then the recession hit in 2007. I got laid off and had to do a loan deferment and then forbearance. My loan amount was $21k. I've paid consistently since graduation and have paid over the amount I borrowed but still owe around $16k more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re free to quit your job if being poor is so awesome. *Crickets*

I suspect a lot of families do somehow game the financial aid system this way. Like maybe one parent stops working. Getting 320k of aid bears a pre tax income of 80k or whatever

No, they shuffle assets around to hide their wealth. Actual MC people don't quit working to get more financial aid, because that also messes with retirement, health insurance, etc. You people have no idea what not being UMC/rich is like. And most colleges don't meet financial need with pure scholarship. It just means more loans.

Yes. This is why we have the student loan crisis right now.

My generation (elder millennial - born in '82 & graduated high school in '00) had it drilled into our heads that if we did not go to college, we would not be successful in life. So many times I had high school teachers tell us "it doesn't matter where you go to school or what degree you get, just go to a college and get a degree - any degree!" So we did. We all did. Out of my graduating class of 294, only around 12 kids did not go to any college (2-yr or 4-yr) after graduation. When I expressed doubt to my guidance counselor about being able to go to a 4-year school because my family couldn't afford it, she provided me with all kinds of information on loans. They were no big deal! Why? Because when you graduate from college with that degree, you'll be making $$$ and can quickly pay them back!

Stressing that every person needed a college degree to be successful flooded the college system & produced too many college grads. So what happened then? Jobs that didn't previously require a college degree started requiring them (receptionists, admin assistants, accounting clerks, etc.). And then the recession hit in 2007. I got laid off and had to do a loan deferment and then forbearance. My loan amount was $21k. I've paid consistently since graduation and have paid over the amount I borrowed but still owe around $16k more.

Eh, a lot of jobs in the U.S. are more complex nowadays and do require a college education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people who claim to be "donut hole" families have lived lives of increasing lifestyle creep as their incomes have climbed up 200k, and then want to complain that they don't get enough need-based aid. Well, did you really need a new car every 5 years? Expensive vacations? To redo the kitchen?

If you want to argue that a family making over 200k is middle class, then live like middle class people -- budget, accept you won't be able to afford everything you want to do, and sock money away for retirement and college.

We make well under 200k and this is what we do, and we have friends making over who go out to eat three nights a week, drive luxury cars, and take multiple vacations overseas every year, have weekly cleaners, etc. Those people are not entitled to need-based aid. It's not my fault, or the college's fault, that they chose to just live nicer, more luxurious, easier lives instead of saving their additional income for their child's education. We've scrimped and saved and still won't have enough. AND work in helping professions. I don't cry myself to sleep over the doctors and consultants and well-paid feds who will be disappointed in their FA award while crying into their Tesla upholstery and trying to console themselves on the flight to Aruba. Boo freaking hoo.

We make around 200k. Kids have never been abroad. Most vacations are to relatives, but we'll do long weekends at a cheap OBX hotel. Our cars get replaced at the 15 year mark and are not luxury. We still will not be able to pay 4x our annual income to put two kids through college. It's not a big deal because they can go to state school, but people pretending that people should attempt to live in poverty for the off chance that their kid gets into Harvard are insufferable.

+1 My kid is going to a great state school, but that's because we can't afford expensive private -- donut family. It's ridiculous for UMC to be expected to pay the same as wealthy families. $220K in the DC area is considered MC, btw. A HHI of $280K is not *that* different to $220K after taxes.

It's $20-25K extra per year. That's a huge difference. If you have been making that for at least 4 years before college you could have saved $80K in just that timeframe.

Why does everyone feel entitled to expensive private college? Just like most things in life, you go with what you can afford. There are literally still the majority of colleges that are/can be affordable for your family. Making $280K/year puts you in the Top 7-8% of all people in the USA. Let that sink in. You have so many more privileges than 92% of the people in our country.

I would ask, then, why do low income people think they are entitled to expensive private college? People who aren't even paying a penny--not just UMC types who wish it was 30% cheaper.

LOL do you think top private colleges care what low-income people think or want? The colleges are running the show here. They’re deciding, on their own, to be giving generous financial aid to students from low-income families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people who claim to be "donut hole" families have lived lives of increasing lifestyle creep as their incomes have climbed up 200k, and then want to complain that they don't get enough need-based aid. Well, did you really need a new car every 5 years? Expensive vacations? To redo the kitchen?

If you want to argue that a family making over 200k is middle class, then live like middle class people -- budget, accept you won't be able to afford everything you want to do, and sock money away for retirement and college.

We make well under 200k and this is what we do, and we have friends making over who go out to eat three nights a week, drive luxury cars, and take multiple vacations overseas every year, have weekly cleaners, etc. Those people are not entitled to need-based aid. It's not my fault, or the college's fault, that they chose to just live nicer, more luxurious, easier lives instead of saving their additional income for their child's education. We've scrimped and saved and still won't have enough. AND work in helping professions. I don't cry myself to sleep over the doctors and consultants and well-paid feds who will be disappointed in their FA award while crying into their Tesla upholstery and trying to console themselves on the flight to Aruba. Boo freaking hoo.

We make around 200k. Kids have never been abroad. Most vacations are to relatives, but we'll do long weekends at a cheap OBX hotel. Our cars get replaced at the 15 year mark and are not luxury. We still will not be able to pay 4x our annual income to put two kids through college. It's not a big deal because they can go to state school, but people pretending that people should attempt to live in poverty for the off chance that their kid gets into Harvard are insufferable.

+1 My kid is going to a great state school, but that's because we can't afford expensive private -- donut family. It's ridiculous for UMC to be expected to pay the same as wealthy families. $220K in the DC area is considered MC, btw. A HHI of $280K is not *that* different to $220K after taxes.

It's $20-25K extra per year. That's a huge difference. If you have been making that for at least 4 years before college you could have saved $80K in just that timeframe.

Why does everyone feel entitled to expensive private college? Just like most things in life, you go with what you can afford. There are literally still the majority of colleges that are/can be affordable for your family. Making $280K/year puts you in the Top 7-8% of all people in the USA. Let that sink in. You have so many more privileges than 92% of the people in our country.

I would ask, then, why do low income people think they are entitled to expensive private college? People who aren't even paying a penny--not just UMC types who wish it was 30% cheaper.

Well, do you think that expensive private college experiences should be able to just be bought? That wouldn’t make the degrees supposedly earned from them worth much, would it?

[Anonymous]

Frankly, I’m not worried about any of this from a “life competition” perspective because the folks I’ve known throughout my life who’ve gone to top schools on significant FA or as FGLI students didn’t much out of the experience. They’re not more conventionally successful than they would’ve been if they’d gone to a state school. I am not at all saying this is their fault. However, many had difficulty succeeding academically in their original chosen major and switched to ones that were more manageable (but less conventionally employable), didn’t feel like they fit in socially, had no family connections when applying for internships, were far away from home, didn’t know the timelines for job recruiting processes or weren’t aware of certain etiquette rules. They’d also, for example, never been exposed to scientific research and didn’t know how to go about finding opportunities for that.

I’m not worried because my kids can go to almost any college and will still do very well in life. This is in equal parts due to having family backing from us, excellent academic preparation from their independent school, luck thus far and their own hard work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Often 2/3 of students at top ranked schools are getting need based aid that covers the vast majority of costs, on average.

200k is the typical cut off for need based aid (about the income level of a couple of school teachers at the peak of their careers aka “the wealthy”)

It just seems these schools must be populated primarily with lower income kids and then 1/3 rich kids.

I guess middle class kids end up at state school.

Poor or filthy rich. Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I’m not worried about any of this from a “life competition” perspective because the folks I’ve known throughout my life who’ve gone to top schools on significant FA or as FGLI students didn’t much out of the experience. They’re not more conventionally successful than they would’ve been if they’d gone to a state school. I am not at all saying this is their fault. However, many had difficulty succeeding academically in their original chosen major and switched to ones that were more manageable (but less conventionally employable), didn’t feel like they fit in socially, had no family connections when applying for internships, were far away from home, didn’t know the timelines for job recruiting processes or weren’t aware of certain etiquette rules. They’d also, for example, never been exposed to scientific research and didn’t know how to go about finding opportunities for that.

I’m not worried because my kids can go to almost any college and will still do very well in life. This is in equal parts due to having family backing from us, excellent academic preparation from their independent school, luck thus far and their own hard work.

\

Translation, I'm not worried because I'm rich and worrying is a poor person problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Often 2/3 of students at top ranked schools are getting need based aid that covers the vast majority of costs, on average.

200k is the typical cut off for need based aid (about the income level of a couple of school teachers at the peak of their careers aka “the wealthy”)

It just seems these schools must be populated primarily with lower income kids and then 1/3 rich kids.

I guess middle class kids end up at state school.

Poverty line is $35k per year. Median American income is $69k. $200 k annual warning is top 10% nationally.

200k is an DCPS teacher married to an MPD officer who works overtime

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Often 2/3 of students at top ranked schools are getting need based aid that covers the vast majority of costs, on average.

200k is the typical cut off for need based aid (about the income level of a couple of school teachers at the peak of their careers aka “the wealthy”)

It just seems these schools must be populated primarily with lower income kids and then 1/3 rich kids.

I guess middle class kids end up at state school.

Poverty line is $35k per year. Median American income is $69k. $200 k annual warning is top 10% nationally.

That's just a statistic that makes people think something that isn't true. $200K is not rich. Unless you're in the tippy top bracket, making millions or inheriting millions, financially stable families (not rich families) cannot afford $80K/year tuition. But I don't know why people think that those folks shouldn't feel the want to go to those schools. But "poor" families should? It's absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people who claim to be "donut hole" families have lived lives of increasing lifestyle creep as their incomes have climbed up 200k, and then want to complain that they don't get enough need-based aid. Well, did you really need a new car every 5 years? Expensive vacations? To redo the kitchen?

If you want to argue that a family making over 200k is middle class, then live like middle class people -- budget, accept you won't be able to afford everything you want to do, and sock money away for retirement and college.

We make well under 200k and this is what we do, and we have friends making over who go out to eat three nights a week, drive luxury cars, and take multiple vacations overseas every year, have weekly cleaners, etc. Those people are not entitled to need-based aid. It's not my fault, or the college's fault, that they chose to just live nicer, more luxurious, easier lives instead of saving their additional income for their child's education. We've scrimped and saved and still won't have enough. AND work in helping professions. I don't cry myself to sleep over the doctors and consultants and well-paid feds who will be disappointed in their FA award while crying into their Tesla upholstery and trying to console themselves on the flight to Aruba. Boo freaking hoo.

That's fine but look what you've done. You've sacrificed your whole life only to be ripped off by a system where more than half the kids are practically going for free, while maybe a quarter of the parents are rich people for whom $320k is a fraction of an annual bonus. You are kind of the sucker here.

The kids who are “going for free” have parents who’ve made a LOT of sacrifices.

Have they? How do you know that? Why are we so quick to assume a family with HHI less than 150k is so noble and deserving but a family that is 200k with some 529 money is a bunch of whiney entitled privileged bastards who should shut up and go to state school if they don't want to spend the rest of their lives as Walmart greeters paying off student loans?

Wow you’re a real peach. You’re basically saying you think poorer people are lazy freeloaders.

I don't know who they are. Probably for the most part they are teachers or civil servant types who don't make much but have a lot of job security and good benefits and maybe even pensions (that don't get considered in FA analysis). I'm just saying, the mentality seems to be the "underprivileged" are these noble and beautiful creatures while the hard working professional classes, clawing their way towards a decent life for their families, are entitled privileged whiney ungrateful bastards who need to shut up and go into debt or send their kid to state u... This all dovetails with all these narratives of unearned privilege that are popular now.

Both sides are fighting over the cake crumbs here. We should be focusing instead on the absurd costs instead of dividing ourselves between the really can’t afford its and the barely can afford its.

Yep. Agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people who claim to be "donut hole" families have lived lives of increasing lifestyle creep as their incomes have climbed up 200k, and then want to complain that they don't get enough need-based aid. Well, did you really need a new car every 5 years? Expensive vacations? To redo the kitchen?

If you want to argue that a family making over 200k is middle class, then live like middle class people -- budget, accept you won't be able to afford everything you want to do, and sock money away for retirement and college.

We make well under 200k and this is what we do, and we have friends making over who go out to eat three nights a week, drive luxury cars, and take multiple vacations overseas every year, have weekly cleaners, etc. Those people are not entitled to need-based aid. It's not my fault, or the college's fault, that they chose to just live nicer, more luxurious, easier lives instead of saving their additional income for their child's education. We've scrimped and saved and still won't have enough. AND work in helping professions. I don't cry myself to sleep over the doctors and consultants and well-paid feds who will be disappointed in their FA award while crying into their Tesla upholstery and trying to console themselves on the flight to Aruba. Boo freaking hoo.

That's fine but look what you've done. You've sacrificed your whole life only to be ripped off by a system where more than half the kids are practically going for free, while maybe a quarter of the parents are rich people for whom $320k is a fraction of an annual bonus. You are kind of the sucker here.

The kids who are “going for free” have parents who’ve made a LOT of sacrifices.

Have they? How do you know that? Why are we so quick to assume a family with HHI less than 150k is so noble and deserving but a family that is 200k with some 529 money is a bunch of whiney entitled privileged bastards who should shut up and go to state school if they don't want to spend the rest of their lives as Walmart greeters paying off student loans?

Wow you’re a real peach. You’re basically saying you think poorer people are lazy freeloaders.

I don't know who they are. Probably for the most part they are teachers or civil servant types who don't make much but have a lot of job security and good benefits and maybe even pensions (that don't get considered in FA analysis). I'm just saying, the mentality seems to be the "underprivileged" are these noble and beautiful creatures while the hard working professional classes, clawing their way towards a decent life for their families, are entitled privileged whiney ungrateful bastards who need to shut up and go into debt or send their kid to state u... This all dovetails with all these narratives of unearned privilege that are popular now.

Bolded describes civil servants and lots of families making $70k-$170k very well.

Can you stop running your mouth, please? It keeps getting you into trouble. You know not of what you speak.

Actually, the PP was 100000% spot on.

Do you have something useful to say? If not, sit down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Often 2/3 of students at top ranked schools are getting need based aid that covers the vast majority of costs, on average.

200k is the typical cut off for need based aid (about the income level of a couple of school teachers at the peak of their careers aka “the wealthy”)

It just seems these schools must be populated primarily with lower income kids and then 1/3 rich kids.

I guess middle class kids end up at state school.

Poverty line is $35k per year. Median American income is $69k. $200 k annual warning is top 10% nationally.

200k is an DCPS teacher married to an MPD officer who works overtime

It’s top 10% nationally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people who claim to be "donut hole" families have lived lives of increasing lifestyle creep as their incomes have climbed up 200k, and then want to complain that they don't get enough need-based aid. Well, did you really need a new car every 5 years? Expensive vacations? To redo the kitchen?

If you want to argue that a family making over 200k is middle class, then live like middle class people -- budget, accept you won't be able to afford everything you want to do, and sock money away for retirement and college.

We make well under 200k and this is what we do, and we have friends making over who go out to eat three nights a week, drive luxury cars, and take multiple vacations overseas every year, have weekly cleaners, etc. Those people are not entitled to need-based aid. It's not my fault, or the college's fault, that they chose to just live nicer, more luxurious, easier lives instead of saving their additional income for their child's education. We've scrimped and saved and still won't have enough. AND work in helping professions. I don't cry myself to sleep over the doctors and consultants and well-paid feds who will be disappointed in their FA award while crying into their Tesla upholstery and trying to console themselves on the flight to Aruba. Boo freaking hoo.

That's fine but look what you've done. You've sacrificed your whole life only to be ripped off by a system where more than half the kids are practically going for free, while maybe a quarter of the parents are rich people for whom $320k is a fraction of an annual bonus. You are kind of the sucker here.

The kids who are “going for free” have parents who’ve made a LOT of sacrifices.

Have they? How do you know that? Why are we so quick to assume a family with HHI less than 150k is so noble and deserving but a family that is 200k with some 529 money is a bunch of whiney entitled privileged bastards who should shut up and go to state school if they don't want to spend the rest of their lives as Walmart greeters paying off student loans?

Wow you’re a real peach. You’re basically saying you think poorer people are lazy freeloaders.

I don't know who they are. Probably for the most part they are teachers or civil servant types who don't make much but have a lot of job security and good benefits and maybe even pensions (that don't get considered in FA analysis). I'm just saying, the mentality seems to be the "underprivileged" are these noble and beautiful creatures while the hard working professional classes, clawing their way towards a decent life for their families, are entitled privileged whiney ungrateful bastards who need to shut up and go into debt or send their kid to state u... This all dovetails with all these narratives of unearned privilege that are popular now.

Bolded describes civil servants and lots of families making $70k-$170k very well.

Can you stop running your mouth, please? It keeps getting you into trouble. You know not of what you speak.

Actually, the PP was 100000% spot on.

Do you have something useful to say? If not, sit down.

Tell us exactly who you think is not a “hard-working professional.” Don’t be coy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I’m not worried about any of this from a “life competition” perspective because the folks I’ve known throughout my life who’ve gone to top schools on significant FA or as FGLI students didn’t much out of the experience. They’re not more conventionally successful than they would’ve been if they’d gone to a state school. I am not at all saying this is their fault. However, many had difficulty succeeding academically in their original chosen major and switched to ones that were more manageable (but less conventionally employable), didn’t feel like they fit in socially, had no family connections when applying for internships, were far away from home, didn’t know the timelines for job recruiting processes or weren’t aware of certain etiquette rules. They’d also, for example, never been exposed to scientific research and didn’t know how to go about finding opportunities for that.

I’m not worried because my kids can go to almost any college and will still do very well in life. This is in equal parts due to having family backing from us, excellent academic preparation from their independent school, luck thus far and their own hard work.

\

Translation, I'm not worried because I'm rich and worrying is a poor person problem

That PP’s post was pretty thoughtful, if you’d taken the time to read it.