Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Famous Jewish humor? A particularly subtle use of irony? You tell me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be super clear, the pro-Israel argument here is that all but ten members of the UN General Assembly— representing the overwhelming majority of the population of the world— are all pro-Hamas? Most of Europe, Japan, Australia…all pro-Hamas now?

https://time.com/6452308/us-votes-against-un-gaza-ceasefire-reactions/

What are you going on about? Are you just flooding this thread with vaguely anti-Israel nonsense to bury discussion about Hamas brutality and Palestinians' strategic embrace of terrorist violence?

The current discussion seems to be, any criticism of Israel’s conduct of the war, and the U.S.’ support thereof, is “pro-Hamas”.

So does that mean posters believe the vast majority of countries of the world are now pro-Hamas? Even the ones who supported Israel in October?

If you aren't trying to defeat Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Literally EVERYONE exchanging thoughts here is supportive of defeating Hamas.

The entire essence of the debate is (1) how to go about achieving that goal (either with regard for the human rights of the innocent civilians [the critics of Israel’s actions] or disregard for human life [the ride or die Zionists who want to defend Israel or obliterate the debate if that defense falls flat]), and then (2) marveling at how truly corrupt and unabashed many Zionists can be in defending the actions of the State of Israel, no matter how inhumane and bloodthirsty for revenge (while feigning shock and outrage that any other group could be allowed to resort to actions that are bloodthirsty for revenge).

if the concern was about the immediate safety of the people that would show in the approach taken--you all focusing on the long game of turning Israel into a villian are not showing care for the immediate safety of Gazans
TODAY-Hamas can surreder. Protest in the streets about that. Protest in front of Hamas's leaders. Instead you protest in front of Austin's house to play the long game in a land dispute.

You are spinning this, but the dog just don’t hunt. America has zero control over the decisions Hamas leadership are making right now. You know that. America SHOULD have nearly complete control over the decisions Israel is making right now, considering the nature of our support.

But since the status quo is your fallback position after you exhaust your “more, more, more for Israel!” pleas, you ensure gridlock by pretending that I can influence Hamas, or that the U.S. can influence Hamas. You just say it to cloud the discussion, and it’s frankly pathetic. Do you sincerely think you’re fooling anyone?

I imagine that this rope-a-dope BS worked to bamboozle ppl in the past, but those days are over.

Your strawman has reached the outer limits of absurdity.

Your ability to influence (or lack thereof) is most emphatically not at issue.

But if it were, of course you have the ability to influence Hamas.

All you need to do is support US politicians committed to massive military aid to Israel and a policy of aggressive containment towards Iran.

Trust me: Hamas will feel the influence.

Can we return to regularly scheduled programming now?

The days of outsmarting unsuspecting or sympathetic post-WWII rubes and convincing others to do the costly bidding are over. Go cry victim to someone else. America has been exploited by Israel enough already.

As for the “trust me” part: Wow, that is astounding. I would sooner trust just about anyone else in this world than trust someone who believes what you believe, that the answer to this never ending disaster of a concept (Zionism) is to send even more aid, “massive military aid to Israel”. You are insane. No thanks, check please.

So you don’t believe that Israel, a state duly established and constituted by the United Nations, should exist.

I agree: that’s the end of the conversation.

Nice straw man, you make that yourself or pick it up at the Dollar Store?

But seriously, the “feelings don’t matter, nothing matters” guy from Russia or Ukraine or wherever has told us over and over again that borders change, nation states fall all the time, and the ethnic composition of countries change throughout history, too. If that’s true, what’s the problem if any of those happens to Israel? I mean, Israel doesn’t deserve preferential treatment or a special status, right? I’m indifferent, but you don’t seem indifferent.

Why is that?

Not a straw man—exactly what the PP said.

Look, thought crime expert … your self-imagined ability to “read through lines” is not real, it’s just really funny.

The PP said nothing direct or indirect about “not believing that Israel should exist”. So yeah, it was a straw man (look it up) and it was an intentional lie and deception, to boot. It was a lie because it is untrue, and it was a deception because it was the old dirty trick of trying to undermine an inconvenient fact that one fears others may see and begin to consider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Famous Jewish humor? A particularly subtle use of irony? You tell me

Interesting tidbit:

This is a Melkite Catholic church. The whole town of Iqrith was ethnically cleansed by Israel in 1948 when Haganah captured the village and IDF ordered residents (mostly Christian Arabs) to leave, following the directive of the "Arab-less border". They promised the residents they'd be able to return in two weeks. I'll leave it to you to guess what happened then.

In July 1951, the villagers of Iqrit pleaded their case before Israel's Supreme Court, and the court ruled in favour of the right to return to their village. After this judgement, the Military Government found another justification to prevent them from returning. The villagers appealed to the Supreme Court again and were scheduled to have their case considered on 6 February 1952.

However, on Christmas Day in 1951, Israeli Defense Forces destroyed the village. According to the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs Israeli soldiers took the mukhtar of Iqrit to the top of a nearby hill to force him to watch as Israeli troops blew up every house in the village. Consequently, Jewish villages were build on top of the blown-up community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iqrit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Famous Jewish humor? A particularly subtle use of irony? You tell me

Interesting tidbit:

This is a Melkite Catholic church. The whole town of Iqrith was ethnically cleansed by Israel in 1948 when Haganah captured the village and IDF ordered residents (mostly Christian Arabs) to leave, following the directive of the "Arab-less border". They promised the residents they'd be able to return in two weeks. I'll leave it to you to guess what happened then.

In July 1951, the villagers of Iqrit pleaded their case before Israel's Supreme Court, and the court ruled in favour of the right to return to their village. After this judgement, the Military Government found another justification to prevent them from returning. The villagers appealed to the Supreme Court again and were scheduled to have their case considered on 6 February 1952.

However, on Christmas Day in 1951, Israeli Defense Forces destroyed the village. According to the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs Israeli soldiers took the mukhtar of Iqrit to the top of a nearby hill to force him to watch as Israeli troops blew up every house in the village. Consequently, Jewish villages were build on top of the blown-up community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iqrit

Barbaric. A lifetime of resentment and hostility is what that iteration of Israel leadership chose by their actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Famous Jewish humor? A particularly subtle use of irony? You tell me

Interesting tidbit:

This is a Melkite Catholic church. The whole town of Iqrith was ethnically cleansed by Israel in 1948 when Haganah captured the village and IDF ordered residents (mostly Christian Arabs) to leave, following the directive of the "Arab-less border". They promised the residents they'd be able to return in two weeks. I'll leave it to you to guess what happened then.

In July 1951, the villagers of Iqrit pleaded their case before Israel's Supreme Court, and the court ruled in favour of the right to return to their village. After this judgement, the Military Government found another justification to prevent them from returning. The villagers appealed to the Supreme Court again and were scheduled to have their case considered on 6 February 1952.

However, on Christmas Day in 1951, Israeli Defense Forces destroyed the village. According to the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs Israeli soldiers took the mukhtar of Iqrit to the top of a nearby hill to force him to watch as Israeli troops blew up every house in the village. Consequently, Jewish villages were build on top of the blown-up community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iqrit

Barbaric. A lifetime of resentment and hostility is what that iteration of Israel leadership chose by their actions.

But interestingly there are no Arab Christian terrorists. Food for thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Famous Jewish humor? A particularly subtle use of irony? You tell me

Interesting tidbit:

This is a Melkite Catholic church. The whole town of Iqrith was ethnically cleansed by Israel in 1948 when Haganah captured the village and IDF ordered residents (mostly Christian Arabs) to leave, following the directive of the "Arab-less border". They promised the residents they'd be able to return in two weeks. I'll leave it to you to guess what happened then.

In July 1951, the villagers of Iqrit pleaded their case before Israel's Supreme Court, and the court ruled in favour of the right to return to their village. After this judgement, the Military Government found another justification to prevent them from returning. The villagers appealed to the Supreme Court again and were scheduled to have their case considered on 6 February 1952.

However, on Christmas Day in 1951, Israeli Defense Forces destroyed the village. According to the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs Israeli soldiers took the mukhtar of Iqrit to the top of a nearby hill to force him to watch as Israeli troops blew up every house in the village. Consequently, Jewish villages were build on top of the blown-up community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iqrit

Barbaric. A lifetime of resentment and hostility is what that iteration of Israel leadership chose by their actions.

But interestingly there are no Arab Christian terrorists. Food for thought.

That’s strange. I thought Israeli snipers just recently killed two Palestinian Christian women as they sheltered in a Church. And I thought Israel didn’t kill civilians. So those must have been terrorists, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The level of antisemitism is astounding here.
I am sure someone will soon post how Jews wrote how they would overtake the world in a Jewish Prague cemetery. They did not; haters wrote them, and people still believed them.
Is Israel overly aggressive now? Maybe. Are Palestinians Hamas fanatics? Maybe.
Yet, many of you sound like total racist trash, regardless of whom you are supporting, Israel or Hamas.

No one supports Hamas!!!!

You can’t even admit Israel has gone WAY PAST any norms and is just bombing it all and killing everyone.

A Now we’re at organ theft. Mutilated corpses. Decayed infants. They are never coming back from this on the world stage

This is an outright lie. It is a disgusting and disgraceful lie. Enough. You can be anti-Israel. Fine, get it. But to pass on these barbaric lies about organ theft. Good Lord - you’re taking a page right out of Blood Libel, FFS.

Decayed infants story is true.

Organ theft has happened in the past. Read the newsweek article cited earlier.

Mutilated corpses and organ theft was accused yesterday in a letter and was reported and the allegations were reported by the Washington Post. There was no comment from Israel at the time the Post published the story. You cannot say it is an outright lie.

PP from above has a good point. These were 80 bodies returned by Israel. What happened to these 80 people while under Israeli custody?

What’s happened to the 107 hostages, including young people and infants, that are still being kept by Hamas and Islamic Jihad?

Nice deflection. This has nothing to do with organ theft. If you listen to the rabid, dehumanizing, anti-Palestinian racism coming from Israel’s leaders, you’ll understand why and how organ theft has happened. If you can steal Palestinian land and lives, why would you not steal Palestinian organs?

Your whole argument is that Jews are just so terribly inherently evil, of course they will steal organs. If you think a person or group is the definition of evil, where evil literally flows from, everything that is bad on earth flows from them.

Where do I say “Jews”? I say “Israel’s leaders.” Your claim is absurd. Please stop throwing up melodramatic smoke screens about Jew hatred in a blatant effort to hide Israel’s repugnant behavior. Israel has admitted to organ theft, especially skin theft, in the past, and it is at least possible it is still doing the same thing. This is not conduct an ethical person would want to support.

This is gross distortion of reports - unsubstantiated and denied by Israel - from almost a decade ago. There is no evidence this is happening now. This rumor has been fueled by unsubstantiated claims from a Hamas-aligned organization.

An ethical person isn’t spreading blood libel-type rumors to fuel hatred against Jews. Enough.

But the former head of the Abu Kabir forensic institute near Tel Aviv, Dr. Yehuda Hiss, acknowledged the practice, so your accusation that people are "spreading blood libel-type rumors to fuel hatred against Jews" is simply histrionic and illogical. Instead of throwing up a smoke screen in an attempt to silence concerns, why not call for an independent investigation to prove or disprove the claims?

Here is some further information:

"Israel has admitted pathologists harvested organs from dead Palestinians, and others, without the consent of their families – a practice it said ended in the 1990s – it emerged at the weekend."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs

From the same report:

"Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.

The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."

Hiss said: "We started to harvest corneas ... whatever was done was highly informal. No permission was asked from the family.""

Jumping to the present ... Yesterday, Israel handed over about 80 corpses to officials in the Gaza Strip without any explanation of where they came from. Gaza authorities are saying there are signs of organ theft and have called for an independent international investigation. They are also saying there have been previous incidents since October 7 of corpses missing organs and exhumed corpses. They say Israelis dug up a mass grave and confiscated bodies and that the IDF confiscated dozens of corpses from two hospitals in Gaza.

Given Israel's history and the current information, the concerns are very reasonable. I'm sure we'd all welcome an independent investigation to clear up the matter one way or the other.

Can you tell me which organ can be harvested and TRANSPLANTED from a decaying body?

Organs must usually be harvested and transplanted within hours, although some harvested organs are used in academia for dissection. It appears organs were missing from some of the approximately 80 bodies returned to Gaza. If the organs were harvested, it is likely they were taken from people who had died very recently. Some of the returned bodies were decomposing, so they may have been left to rot after their organs were taken. Corpses confiscated from hospitals in Gaza may have recently died, possibly in the hospital. Bodies that were exhumed from mass graves are less likely to have viable organs, but that depends on how recently they died.

There are non-trivial concerns about illegal organ harvesting. Why not encourage an independent investigation that would clear up the matter one way or the other? If the concerns are groundless, everyone is better off having that out in the open. If they are valid, we need to know that too.

You have to harvest within 60 minutes of circulation cessation. Which is impossible from a. buried body. You have to remove the organs under sterile conditions. No one is going to use an organ from let’s say a victim of an air strike because of the concerns about the integrity of such organ. Stop your nonsense. You are not making any sense. I doubt that organs were missing .One hand you all are saying that Gazan medical infrastructure is gone, on the hand you are saying that they have a team of pathologists examine bodies for missing organs? WTF? Why would they need organs that cannot be transplanted? You seriously believe that Israeli anatomy labs lack organs for dissection so they have to take it from dead Palestinian militants? Israel has a robust LIVE organ transplantation matching program from which Palestinians themselves have benefited from. 80 bodies were returned in accordance with the international law. Unlike your Hamas friends, Israel does not keep the bodies of enemy combatants, to later exchange them for prisoners . Bodies are examined for explosives. Ukraine has been accusing Russia that it was boobytrapping dead Ukrainian and Russian soldiers. It is a common practice to retrieve the bodies of an enemy combatant and then release it to the other side. Just stop! You are not only propagating a vile accusation and a lie, you are also demonstrating how incredibly uneducated you are .

Not to mention that you can’t just transplant from anyone to anyone. There has to be a match, genetically, virus wise, blood type, etc. It takes hours to match donors, you can’t transplant an organ from a dead person if you don’t know anything about the donor .This thread is off the rails. It is so concerning that these uneducated conspiracy prone fools live among us.

Israel has historically had an unusually low rate of organ donations. It also has the largest skin bank in the world, and cryopreserved skin can be stored for extended periods. Gazan authorities expressed concerns about organ harvesting because vital organs were missing from some of the corpses returned yesterday. A nurse could make that determination very quickly, possibly within minutes. Gaza's medical infrastructure has weakened in large part because of a shortage of fuel, meaning many ventilators and dialysis machines, etc., are out of operation, and a shortage of supplies, like anesthesia products, vaccines, antibiotics, etc. This does not mean no medical personnel are available to examine corpses. Israel has not explained where the corpses came from. This is sufficiently concerning that there should be an investigation. Nobody is making absolute claims, so there is no "conspiracy theory" here. Why are you reacting with hysteria to a common sense request for an independent investigation? If there's a reasonable explanation for the missing organs, let's hear it from a team that has studied this rather than from some partisans who are trying to snow further scrutiny under a frenzy of insults. Chill out, and let's wait for confirmation either way before jumping to conclusions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be super clear, the pro-Israel argument here is that all but ten members of the UN General Assembly— representing the overwhelming majority of the population of the world— are all pro-Hamas? Most of Europe, Japan, Australia…all pro-Hamas now?

https://time.com/6452308/us-votes-against-un-gaza-ceasefire-reactions/

What are you going on about? Are you just flooding this thread with vaguely anti-Israel nonsense to bury discussion about Hamas brutality and Palestinians' strategic embrace of terrorist violence?

The current discussion seems to be, any criticism of Israel’s conduct of the war, and the U.S.’ support thereof, is “pro-Hamas”.

So does that mean posters believe the vast majority of countries of the world are now pro-Hamas? Even the ones who supported Israel in October?

If you aren't trying to defeat Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Literally EVERYONE exchanging thoughts here is supportive of defeating Hamas.

The entire essence of the debate is (1) how to go about achieving that goal (either with regard for the human rights of the innocent civilians [the critics of Israel’s actions] or disregard for human life [the ride or die Zionists who want to defend Israel or obliterate the debate if that defense falls flat]), and then (2) marveling at how truly corrupt and unabashed many Zionists can be in defending the actions of the State of Israel, no matter how inhumane and bloodthirsty for revenge (while feigning shock and outrage that any other group could be allowed to resort to actions that are bloodthirsty for revenge).

if the concern was about the immediate safety of the people that would show in the approach taken--you all focusing on the long game of turning Israel into a villian are not showing care for the immediate safety of Gazans
TODAY-Hamas can surreder. Protest in the streets about that. Protest in front of Hamas's leaders. Instead you protest in front of Austin's house to play the long game in a land dispute.

You are spinning this, but the dog just don’t hunt. America has zero control over the decisions Hamas leadership are making right now. You know that. America SHOULD have nearly complete control over the decisions Israel is making right now, considering the nature of our support.

But since the status quo is your fallback position after you exhaust your “more, more, more for Israel!” pleas, you ensure gridlock by pretending that I can influence Hamas, or that the U.S. can influence Hamas. You just say it to cloud the discussion, and it’s frankly pathetic. Do you sincerely think you’re fooling anyone?

I imagine that this rope-a-dope BS worked to bamboozle ppl in the past, but those days are over.

Your strawman has reached the outer limits of absurdity.

Your ability to influence (or lack thereof) is most emphatically not at issue.

But if it were, of course you have the ability to influence Hamas.

All you need to do is support US politicians committed to massive military aid to Israel and a policy of aggressive containment towards Iran.

Trust me: Hamas will feel the influence.

Can we return to regularly scheduled programming now?

The days of outsmarting unsuspecting or sympathetic post-WWII rubes and convincing others to do the costly bidding are over. Go cry victim to someone else. America has been exploited by Israel enough already.

As for the “trust me” part: Wow, that is astounding. I would sooner trust just about anyone else in this world than trust someone who believes what you believe, that the answer to this never ending disaster of a concept (Zionism) is to send even more aid, “massive military aid to Israel”. You are insane. No thanks, check please.

So you don’t believe that Israel, a state duly established and constituted by the United Nations, should exist.

I agree: that’s the end of the conversation.

DP. It’s very much the middle of the conversation because we’ll see some day how Israel fares on its own without massive subsidies from the USA. The younger generations will not tolerate groups like AIPAC continuing to buy members of Congress.

[Anonymous]

LOL @ being israeled.

That happened to me several times in the course of these threads. The pro-israelis really have no justification for the horrific nature of the IDF murders, so they just end up calling anyone who disagrees with them an anti-semite. So transparent and so boring after all these months! MONTHS! Of IDF murders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The level of antisemitism is astounding here.
I am sure someone will soon post how Jews wrote how they would overtake the world in a Jewish Prague cemetery. They did not; haters wrote them, and people still believed them.
Is Israel overly aggressive now? Maybe. Are Palestinians Hamas fanatics? Maybe.
Yet, many of you sound like total racist trash, regardless of whom you are supporting, Israel or Hamas.

No one supports Hamas!!!!

You can’t even admit Israel has gone WAY PAST any norms and is just bombing it all and killing everyone.

A Now we’re at organ theft. Mutilated corpses. Decayed infants. They are never coming back from this on the world stage

This is an outright lie. It is a disgusting and disgraceful lie. Enough. You can be anti-Israel. Fine, get it. But to pass on these barbaric lies about organ theft. Good Lord - you’re taking a page right out of Blood Libel, FFS.

Decayed infants story is true.

Organ theft has happened in the past. Read the newsweek article cited earlier.

Mutilated corpses and organ theft was accused yesterday in a letter and was reported and the allegations were reported by the Washington Post. There was no comment from Israel at the time the Post published the story. You cannot say it is an outright lie.

PP from above has a good point. These were 80 bodies returned by Israel. What happened to these 80 people while under Israeli custody?

What’s happened to the 107 hostages, including young people and infants, that are still being kept by Hamas and Islamic Jihad?

Nice deflection. This has nothing to do with organ theft. If you listen to the rabid, dehumanizing, anti-Palestinian racism coming from Israel’s leaders, you’ll understand why and how organ theft has happened. If you can steal Palestinian land and lives, why would you not steal Palestinian organs?

Your whole argument is that Jews are just so terribly inherently evil, of course they will steal organs. If you think a person or group is the definition of evil, where evil literally flows from, everything that is bad on earth flows from them.

Where do I say “Jews”? I say “Israel’s leaders.” Your claim is absurd. Please stop throwing up melodramatic smoke screens about Jew hatred in a blatant effort to hide Israel’s repugnant behavior. Israel has admitted to organ theft, especially skin theft, in the past, and it is at least possible it is still doing the same thing. This is not conduct an ethical person would want to support.

This is gross distortion of reports - unsubstantiated and denied by Israel - from almost a decade ago. There is no evidence this is happening now. This rumor has been fueled by unsubstantiated claims from a Hamas-aligned organization.

An ethical person isn’t spreading blood libel-type rumors to fuel hatred against Jews. Enough.

But the former head of the Abu Kabir forensic institute near Tel Aviv, Dr. Yehuda Hiss, acknowledged the practice, so your accusation that people are "spreading blood libel-type rumors to fuel hatred against Jews" is simply histrionic and illogical. Instead of throwing up a smoke screen in an attempt to silence concerns, why not call for an independent investigation to prove or disprove the claims?

Here is some further information:

"Israel has admitted pathologists harvested organs from dead Palestinians, and others, without the consent of their families – a practice it said ended in the 1990s – it emerged at the weekend."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs

From the same report:

"Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.

The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."

Hiss said: "We started to harvest corneas ... whatever was done was highly informal. No permission was asked from the family.""

Jumping to the present ... Yesterday, Israel handed over about 80 corpses to officials in the Gaza Strip without any explanation of where they came from. Gaza authorities are saying there are signs of organ theft and have called for an independent international investigation. They are also saying there have been previous incidents since October 7 of corpses missing organs and exhumed corpses. They say Israelis dug up a mass grave and confiscated bodies and that the IDF confiscated dozens of corpses from two hospitals in Gaza.

Given Israel's history and the current information, the concerns are very reasonable. I'm sure we'd all welcome an independent investigation to clear up the matter one way or the other.

Can you tell me which organ can be harvested and TRANSPLANTED from a decaying body?

Organs must usually be harvested and transplanted within hours, although some harvested organs are used in academia for dissection. It appears organs were missing from some of the approximately 80 bodies returned to Gaza. If the organs were harvested, it is likely they were taken from people who had died very recently. Some of the returned bodies were decomposing, so they may have been left to rot after their organs were taken. Corpses confiscated from hospitals in Gaza may have recently died, possibly in the hospital. Bodies that were exhumed from mass graves are less likely to have viable organs, but that depends on how recently they died.

There are non-trivial concerns about illegal organ harvesting. Why not encourage an independent investigation that would clear up the matter one way or the other? If the concerns are groundless, everyone is better off having that out in the open. If they are valid, we need to know that too.

You have to harvest within 60 minutes of circulation cessation. Which is impossible from a. buried body. You have to remove the organs under sterile conditions. No one is going to use an organ from let’s say a victim of an air strike because of the concerns about the integrity of such organ. Stop your nonsense. You are not making any sense. I doubt that organs were missing .One hand you all are saying that Gazan medical infrastructure is gone, on the hand you are saying that they have a team of pathologists examine bodies for missing organs? WTF? Why would they need organs that cannot be transplanted? You seriously believe that Israeli anatomy labs lack organs for dissection so they have to take it from dead Palestinian militants? Israel has a robust LIVE organ transplantation matching program from which Palestinians themselves have benefited from. 80 bodies were returned in accordance with the international law. Unlike your Hamas friends, Israel does not keep the bodies of enemy combatants, to later exchange them for prisoners . Bodies are examined for explosives. Ukraine has been accusing Russia that it was boobytrapping dead Ukrainian and Russian soldiers. It is a common practice to retrieve the bodies of an enemy combatant and then release it to the other side. Just stop! You are not only propagating a vile accusation and a lie, you are also demonstrating how incredibly uneducated you are .

Not to mention that you can’t just transplant from anyone to anyone. There has to be a match, genetically, virus wise, blood type, etc. It takes hours to match donors, you can’t transplant an organ from a dead person if you don’t know anything about the donor .This thread is off the rails. It is so concerning that these uneducated conspiracy prone fools live among us.

Israel has historically had an unusually low rate of organ donations. It also has the largest skin bank in the world, and cryopreserved skin can be stored for extended periods. Gazan authorities expressed concerns about organ harvesting because vital organs were missing from some of the corpses returned yesterday. A nurse could make that determination very quickly, possibly within minutes. Gaza's medical infrastructure has weakened in large part because of a shortage of fuel, meaning many ventilators and dialysis machines, etc., are out of operation, and a shortage of supplies, like anesthesia products, vaccines, antibiotics, etc. This does not mean no medical personnel are available to examine corpses. Israel has not explained where the corpses came from. This is sufficiently concerning that there should be an investigation. Nobody is making absolute claims, so there is no "conspiracy theory" here. Why are you reacting with hysteria to a common sense request for an independent investigation? If there's a reasonable explanation for the missing organs, let's hear it from a team that has studied this rather than from some partisans who are trying to snow further scrutiny under a frenzy of insults. Chill out, and let's wait for confirmation either way before jumping to conclusions.

A nurse cannot make that determination. A doctor cannot make that determination in minutes. You obviously know nothing about pathology exams to make such a stupid claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be super clear, the pro-Israel argument here is that all but ten members of the UN General Assembly— representing the overwhelming majority of the population of the world— are all pro-Hamas? Most of Europe, Japan, Australia…all pro-Hamas now?

https://time.com/6452308/us-votes-against-un-gaza-ceasefire-reactions/

What are you going on about? Are you just flooding this thread with vaguely anti-Israel nonsense to bury discussion about Hamas brutality and Palestinians' strategic embrace of terrorist violence?

The current discussion seems to be, any criticism of Israel’s conduct of the war, and the U.S.’ support thereof, is “pro-Hamas”.

So does that mean posters believe the vast majority of countries of the world are now pro-Hamas? Even the ones who supported Israel in October?

If you aren't trying to defeat Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Literally EVERYONE exchanging thoughts here is supportive of defeating Hamas.

The entire essence of the debate is (1) how to go about achieving that goal (either with regard for the human rights of the innocent civilians [the critics of Israel’s actions] or disregard for human life [the ride or die Zionists who want to defend Israel or obliterate the debate if that defense falls flat]), and then (2) marveling at how truly corrupt and unabashed many Zionists can be in defending the actions of the State of Israel, no matter how inhumane and bloodthirsty for revenge (while feigning shock and outrage that any other group could be allowed to resort to actions that are bloodthirsty for revenge).

if the concern was about the immediate safety of the people that would show in the approach taken--you all focusing on the long game of turning Israel into a villian are not showing care for the immediate safety of Gazans
TODAY-Hamas can surreder. Protest in the streets about that. Protest in front of Hamas's leaders. Instead you protest in front of Austin's house to play the long game in a land dispute.

You are spinning this, but the dog just don’t hunt. America has zero control over the decisions Hamas leadership are making right now. You know that. America SHOULD have nearly complete control over the decisions Israel is making right now, considering the nature of our support.

But since the status quo is your fallback position after you exhaust your “more, more, more for Israel!” pleas, you ensure gridlock by pretending that I can influence Hamas, or that the U.S. can influence Hamas. You just say it to cloud the discussion, and it’s frankly pathetic. Do you sincerely think you’re fooling anyone?

I imagine that this rope-a-dope BS worked to bamboozle ppl in the past, but those days are over.

Your strawman has reached the outer limits of absurdity.

Your ability to influence (or lack thereof) is most emphatically not at issue.

But if it were, of course you have the ability to influence Hamas.

All you need to do is support US politicians committed to massive military aid to Israel and a policy of aggressive containment towards Iran.

Trust me: Hamas will feel the influence.

Can we return to regularly scheduled programming now?

The days of outsmarting unsuspecting or sympathetic post-WWII rubes and convincing others to do the costly bidding are over. Go cry victim to someone else. America has been exploited by Israel enough already.

As for the “trust me” part: Wow, that is astounding. I would sooner trust just about anyone else in this world than trust someone who believes what you believe, that the answer to this never ending disaster of a concept (Zionism) is to send even more aid, “massive military aid to Israel”. You are insane. No thanks, check please.

So you don’t believe that Israel, a state duly established and constituted by the United Nations, should exist.

I agree: that’s the end of the conversation.

Of course, Israel has a right to exist as a sovereign nation but they gotta do that on their own dime, which is how every single nation in the world exists. What Israel does not have the right to is subsidies provided by U.S taxpayers, if they can’t exist on their own then they need to come up with another plan. Days of buying American politicians will be over soon.

[Anonymous]

They are not winning over anyone with these antics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are not winning over anyone with these antics.

You’re more bothered by protesters blocking traffic in LA than bombs killing children and doctors treating the wounded without pain medicine?

Cool. Great perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are not winning over anyone with these antics.

You’re more bothered by protesters blocking traffic in LA than bombs killing children and doctors treating the wounded without pain medicine?

Cool. Great perspective.

NP. Totally bothered by what’s happening in the USa and the lack of police interference in this lawlessness.

[Anonymous]

So just catching up after a few days

-If you disagree with IDF killing 22,000 people in retaliation for 1,000 = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing hopsitals = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF indscriminate bombing = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing churches/mosques = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing schools = anitsemite
-If you disagree with IDF illegally using chemical weapons = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF snipers shooting sheltering women in churches = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF murdering surrendering hostages = antisemite
-If you disagree with Israel using collective punishment = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing refugee camps = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF targeting ambulances and medical staff = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF targeting journalists = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF bombing places they instructed palestinians to evacute to = antisemite
-If you disagree with IDF murdering surrendering israeli hostages = antisemite

It's so hard to tell which are the terrorists anymore honestly. How is this the most "moral" army in the world?