FAFSA - is middle-class waste time applying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh gosh, I am so sick of people making hundreds of thousands of dollars and trying to call themselves "middle class." We earn about $150K a year (here in the DC area as well) and I hesitate to call us middle class-- I think we're upper middle class, not quite rich yet but getting there. At $300,000 you are absolutely not middle class anymore- you're in like the top 5% richest households in the area.

Look, I get that paying for college is not easy even at $300K, but haven't you been saving? Even if you only saved like $10K per child per year (which shouldn't be too hard at your income-- we manage it pretty easily at half your income) that should cover most or all of the costs, depending on investment returns.

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Oh gosh, I am so sick of people making assumptions about what others can afford. We make $350+. We’ve never had any family help. We lived on one GS-11 to gradually 14 in the DMV when our kids were little and could hardly pay the mortgage, much less save for college. One of our kids has a disability that requires expenses beyond medical that you’d never begin to understand.

We have high incomes in the last few years and our expenses are high. We still have our own student loans. College for a kid with our kids disability (if that happens) is DOUBLE private college and they will need help their entire life.

So I’m so sick of people jumping in on DCUM and saying off of one sentence about income “of course you can afford it, you made lifestyle choices or didn’t save enough.”

You just don’t know the complexities of someone else’s situation.

We will not get aid and our DC will go to a great state school with merit. We are okay with that. But don’t tell me what I can afford based on my income when I’m in my 50’s and my kid is 18.

$300,000 is rich.

Period.

It is rich here. It is really rich an hour drive away from here.

There is no way, no how, that a $300K income is middle class... even here.

Sure 300k comp in say Arkansas is rich, but not in this area. In this area you are getting by fine but by no means is someone making that rich, especially if they have kids. 300k in this area is solidly middle class (look at the average income in McLean for example, it's 250k, or say in 22207 it's 230k). 300k in this area (especially given high cost of housing and childcare) is very much an almost paycheck to paycheck existence.

The only way I would say that 300k is fine is if its a household where only the husband/wife works while the other takes care of childcare. Then yeah 300k is great, otherwise though (especially with super young children) dual income 300k just doesn't get you far.

"In the most expensive neighborhoods full of rich people with expensive homes, my income is only a little above average! So that makes me middle-class, not rich!"

Come on, is this a joke? Just because you choose to live around other rich people does not mean you're middle class. (Nor does having to watch your budget because you have an expensive house or send your kids to private schools.) The vast majority of families with kids in the DC area get by just fine earning way, way less than $300K. If you earn $300K you're in the top 10% of households in the DC area, not near the middle, ie not middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do you think parents in Northern Virginia are all obsessed with getting their kids into UVA? They can afford it easily on $300k a year.

Or parents in Montgomery County with UMD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many likely were not taught to save.

That is not a character flaw, but it is an obstacle.

My DH and I were not taught this either, but being married and working together we have improved our financial literacy over decades and are lucky to have DCUM UMC salaries.

We are terrible savers, but if we can automate and never see the money that works for us.

I think the “pay yourself first”, meaning savings, mentality is great but hard for many people who don’t think long term to execute. This is not something taught in school or society. People do not talk about money and people don’t like feeling as if they do not make as much as their friends and neighbors. It is hard for many to say “I cannot afford that” because of shame.

It is easier to live on a salary of $150K than to have a salary of $300K and live on a salary of $150K.

Those that are better at savings appear to balance the pain of frugality with the joy of experiencing superiority.

People feel bad that private college is expensive and they cannot afford to give that to their children. College is crazy expensive. There are less expensive options.

Our children will be better off for not getting everything they want.

No, it’s easier to live off $300k and save a lot than 150k. Your poor choices are not colleges problem. It’s yours. We talk about money in our home all the time.

[Anonymous]

A very few private schools give you merit aid to fill out the form- not sure why but they do. Otherwise total waste of time and invasive. You will get nothing.

[Anonymous]

FAFSA should be tiered based on geography. DMV people are getting nothing because we are all fabulously wealthy here despite living in small 2800 square foot houses with mortgages (that cost 1.3M)

[Anonymous]

When we applied (three kids, upper middle class), we were told our expected family contribution was $209K a year, if that tells you anything. Meaning they would give aid after we spent 209K a year on college. I will say, some colleges are attempting to get to that, but to date, I believe that still means no aid anywhere

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When we applied (three kids, upper middle class), we were told our expected family contribution was $209K a year, if that tells you anything. Meaning they would give aid after we spent 209K a year on college. I will say, some colleges are attempting to get to that, but to date, I believe that still means no aid anywhere

What is your income?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When we applied (three kids, upper middle class), we were told our expected family contribution was $209K a year, if that tells you anything. Meaning they would give aid after we spent 209K a year on college. I will say, some colleges are attempting to get to that, but to date, I believe that still means no aid anywhere

And you don’t know how the FAFSA works. It gave you a number, but even if your expenses were over that, there’s no federal aid attached. You’d have to find a school that will honor that number.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When we applied (three kids, upper middle class), we were told our expected family contribution was $209K a year, if that tells you anything. Meaning they would give aid after we spent 209K a year on college. I will say, some colleges are attempting to get to that, but to date, I believe that still means no aid anywhere

I call BS. No one who's actually middle class would be expected to pay $209K because it would be impossible. If they said your EFC was $209K then you must have income and/or assets that put you well out of the middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A very few private schools give you merit aid to fill out the form- not sure why but they do. Otherwise total waste of time and invasive. You will get nothing.

What do people mean here when they say invasive? Why are they bothered by this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I would like to hear more from UMC people about how College is a special consumer good where family income shouldn’t matter and the net price should be essentially zero when literally everything else in the world is allocated by family wealth, including “free” public school (you have to be able to afford to live in the district).

You thought it was fair when you bought your way into everything else in your lifestyle, well now welcome to the big leagues.

I don't think UMC families are saying that they should be given aid. Just lamenting that they cannot afford it, even if some insist that they can. Many of us have 529 accounts, but those funds didn't grow that much, even putting in more than $2500 per year per account, and we have multiple kids. It's enough for in state, but not 80k per year. When we started saving college was a bit cheaper. Several years ago, when my DC was in MS, we looked at an expensive private. It was $60K/year. Now it's closer to $85k per year. Saving $240k is doable. Saving closer to $350K is much harder.

If you still have 20 working years, I could see how you think you can afford to pull back on funding retirement, and save later, but if you are 55+, you don't have that luxury.

Obviously, saving only $2500/year/kid is not going to produce enough for $80K/year schools in 18 years (which will cost way more than 80K then).

Majority of kids have to pick schools they can afford, most cannot afford 80K/year, or they could but smartly realize that saved money would be nice to have for grad school.

Read bolded.. we saved way more than $2500 per year per account. We have two accounts per child. Still not enough to cover $80K per year per child given that the 529 didn't grow that much.

So why write it that way? How much did you save per year? Why did the 529 not grow that much? If you dont have it all in the growth market, it may not. But that is on you, as there are 529s that allow you to do that. You can pick one (may not be your state's) that allows you to select the MF to invest in. American Funds in VA is an excellent example. My kid's funds earned 8-9% annual on average during the aggressive years. We didn't pull back until age 15/16 to less aggressive.

DP. Even with 8-9% growth, saving 20K year since 2007 only gets you to ~600K after you factor in expense ratios etc. Not enough to cover 2 kids at 80-90K schools (and that is not even Harvard but say Amherst/Colorado College.) And this simple calculation doesn't actually account for the real fluctuations (e.g. crash in 2008/2009 and again in 2020. Yes, there were rebounds, but plugging in actual numbers and accounting for management fees only gets you to the number I quoted above. Colllege costs are ridiculous right now. And before you jump in with state options, DC doesn't have a state university (obv) and DCTAG helps but not as much.

But, you can likely afford to save more than that for each kid. And, you can pay some as you go. It will be work, but you can do it on your income and still live well (unless you have big health expenses or the like).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t attend a private school unless your kid has something a college ‘wants.’ Read who gets in and why and net price calculators are your friend.

Congrats on making Seniors. Yes this is the ‘tax’ for that success - ie not choosing private sector work.

Why do people insist on providing advice and opinions on questions that were not asked by the OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t attend a private school unless your kid has something a college ‘wants.’ Read who gets in and why and net price calculators are your friend.

Congrats on making Seniors. Yes this is the ‘tax’ for that success - ie not choosing private sector work.

Why do people insist on providing advice and opinions on questions that were not asked by the OP?

They have to show how smart they are and how they know EVERYTHING about college admissions despite not being an AO and absolutely zero people on the entire planet being willing to pay for their amateur counseling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A very few private schools give you merit aid to fill out the form- not sure why but they do. Otherwise total waste of time and invasive. You will get nothing.

What do people mean here when they say invasive? Why are they bothered by this?

They have a lot of very unusual income streams they don’t want anyone reporting to the IRS.

CSS schools can and will audit. Serious risk the FAFSA/CSS and the 1040 don’t match.

The President of the United States releases his tax returns publicly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like to hear more from UMC people about how College is a special consumer good where family income shouldn’t matter and the net price should be essentially zero when literally everything else in the world is allocated by family wealth, including “free” public school (you have to be able to afford to live in the district).

You thought it was fair when you bought your way into everything else in your lifestyle, well now welcome to the big leagues.

I don't think UMC families are saying that they should be given aid. Just lamenting that they cannot afford it, even if some insist that they can. Many of us have 529 accounts, but those funds didn't grow that much, even putting in more than $2500 per year per account, and we have multiple kids. It's enough for in state, but not 80k per year. When we started saving college was a bit cheaper. Several years ago, when my DC was in MS, we looked at an expensive private. It was $60K/year. Now it's closer to $85k per year. Saving $240k is doable. Saving closer to $350K is much harder.

If you still have 20 working years, I could see how you think you can afford to pull back on funding retirement, and save later, but if you are 55+, you don't have that luxury.

Obviously, saving only $2500/year/kid is not going to produce enough for $80K/year schools in 18 years (which will cost way more than 80K then).

Majority of kids have to pick schools they can afford, most cannot afford 80K/year, or they could but smartly realize that saved money would be nice to have for grad school.

Read bolded.. we saved way more than $2500 per year per account. We have two accounts per child. Still not enough to cover $80K per year per child given that the 529 didn't grow that much.

So why write it that way? How much did you save per year? Why did the 529 not grow that much? If you dont have it all in the growth market, it may not. But that is on you, as there are 529s that allow you to do that. You can pick one (may not be your state's) that allows you to select the MF to invest in. American Funds in VA is an excellent example. My kid's funds earned 8-9% annual on average during the aggressive years. We didn't pull back until age 15/16 to less aggressive.

DP. Even with 8-9% growth, saving 20K year since 2007 only gets you to ~600K after you factor in expense ratios etc. Not enough to cover 2 kids at 80-90K schools (and that is not even Harvard but say Amherst/Colorado College.) And this simple calculation doesn't actually account for the real fluctuations (e.g. crash in 2008/2009 and again in 2020. Yes, there were rebounds, but plugging in actual numbers and accounting for management fees only gets you to the number I quoted above. Colllege costs are ridiculous right now. And before you jump in with state options, DC doesn't have a state university (obv) and DCTAG helps but not as much.

If you chose to live in DC and have kids, you know there is no state option. So you have 18 years to consider moving to MD/VA if you want that option. It's all about choices, but this wasn't a surprise to you.

Yes college costs have increased drastically. But there are still plenty of excellent options for attending with no or minimal debt. Search merit at "2nd tier" schools or lower. My own 1500/3.98UW/9 AP kid got $42K/year at a T50 so instead of 80k+/year it would only be $40K. Could have gotten even more if they'd searched schools in the 60-120 range (didn't Because we don't need the merit, but point is they could find plenty of good options if needed).
So if you take off the blinders of believing you need to attend a T25 school, you can find something affordable for you.