What are the classic components of an UMC or UC American childhood?

[Anonymous]

I posted earlier that this thread was shit and after pages and pages of more shit, this thread is now utter shit. The privilege reeks here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The obsession with maintaining a full schedule of organized activities seems weird and stressful.

The average middle class teen is idle on their butt all day long playing video games, on their phone or streaming Netflix.

The always busy overachiever striver is perhaps <2.5% of all teens.

I’d rather have my kids maintain full schedules than be terminally unmotivated bumps on a log.

See this is what I hate. A kid/teen not in a boat load of activities doesn't have to be a bump on a log or a trouble maker. How rude and offensive.

But they generally are. I've worked with K-12 kids for 25 years, working and middle class kids are idle much of the day. Harvard's Robert Putnam has researched and written extensively about this.

[Anonymous]

Main residence plus a nice vacation home is a quintessential "made it" signal. The wannabes and strivers sit home all winter and summer with the kids -- or play pretend and rent for a few days or maybe a week. Those who've "made it" casually have a $1+ million vacation home the kids spend a lot of youth at, have a second set of friends at. Drive around Naples, Sanibel and Marco islands in Florida during the summer -- thousands of second home mansions closed in the off season. Ditto ski destinations in Utah and Colorado. Imagine having a $1+ million second home you don't even care about for 6 to 8 months out of the year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"This is ridiculous. Very few UMC families are in elite circles with the rich and powerful. Many of us are simply dual income white collar worker bees."

Then you're not UMC. And you don't realize that many, if not most, of "the powerful" have salaries of $200K or less. You might have a nice income, but you don't belong to that elite UMC grouping. UMC people are not worker bees. Many work around the clock, but their work often involves higher level thinking and relationship building. Or they have skills and credentials that garner high salaries, like physicians or CPAs. These aren't people who punch a time clock or get paid overtime. They might only earn about the same as a DC cop with seniority who pulls lots of overtime and side gigs, but how they earn that money is very different.

I am a CPA and my spouse is a physician (since you brought those two professions up) and I echo what PP said: this is ridiculous. We don’t hang out with the rich and the powerful, we’re not inviting Congresspeople and their staff to our kids’ baptisms, and neither are most of our CPA / physician coworkers. I wouldn’t dare call our family middle class, though.

Same here. HHI around 750-1 mil. DH is in finance, I’m an editor.

We don’t know any Congress people or anyone at the WH (and with the state of the GOP, I don’t want to either).

I doubt you could call us middle class though. We both have grad degrees and BAs from top schools.

We have a $2m HHI. We live in an affluent neighborhood. A few former congressmen do live in our neighborhood. We wave hi but that is the extent of our relationship.

DH and I were high achievers. Our children are strong students and have every resource at their disposal. We know a few high powered people but not necessarily well. I’m sure one day if my kid was interested in a certain field, we would know a friend of a friend who could get my kid an internship or at least an interview. My kid would need to have the credentials and work ethic to make it though.

I find the wannabe UC to be the most obnoxious. They are constantly name dropping and just annoying to be around. They don’t really know anyone but pretend to know everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"This is ridiculous. Very few UMC families are in elite circles with the rich and powerful. Many of us are simply dual income white collar worker bees."

Then you're not UMC. And you don't realize that many, if not most, of "the powerful" have salaries of $200K or less. You might have a nice income, but you don't belong to that elite UMC grouping. UMC people are not worker bees. Many work around the clock, but their work often involves higher level thinking and relationship building. Or they have skills and credentials that garner high salaries, like physicians or CPAs. These aren't people who punch a time clock or get paid overtime. They might only earn about the same as a DC cop with seniority who pulls lots of overtime and side gigs, but how they earn that money is very different.

I am a CPA and my spouse is a physician (since you brought those two professions up) and I echo what PP said: this is ridiculous. We don’t hang out with the rich and the powerful, we’re not inviting Congresspeople and their staff to our kids’ baptisms, and neither are most of our CPA / physician coworkers. I wouldn’t dare call our family middle class, though.

You may not hang out with the "rich and powerful" but I would bet you're reasonably well-connected amongst your colleagues, neighbors and friends. You have legacy status at the universities you attended and multiple universities that your spouse attended (undergrad, med school, residency, fellowship, etc.). Your spouse knows multiple other physicians and you both probably know plenty of people in the professional class (e.g., CPAs, lawyers, finance types, etc.) that could potentially be resources for your kids. It's not that the the Horatio Alger LMC types can't succeed. Rather, it's hard work and natural talents alone with a bit of luck that are the deciding factors. They also probably had to hustle to understand what you or your kids already know -- whether it's social etiquette or who to go to and what is necessary if you're interested in applying to a selective university, getting a prestigious internship, or preparing for that first job interview. For example, it's the difference between reading a book on investment banking and cold calling/DM someone in the field on LinkedIn rather than asking a family member about their experiences and what opportunities might be available. It can still work, but it's much easier if you're already qualified AND have personal connections to the industry. Moreover, as UMC, you can probably afford to pay 100% tuition and help your kids launch if they're in a field that benefits from unpaid internships or moving to a high cost of living area for that first job. There's a great book called "Paying for the Party" that illustrates how these class differences play out at a public university.

Hey, you’re the one who said we’re not UMC because we’re white collar worker bees.

Sorry, that wasn’t me. I think that’s someone conflating UMC with UC. Also, there’s a world of a difference between a single practitioner CPA doing the local dentist’s return and a Big 4 partner. The same is true for law and many other white collar professionals.

Hey, what if you’ve done both? Well, not Big 4 *partner* — I left too quickly — but I could’ve climbed the ladder if I’d have wanted to. Now I’m a solo practitioner because I like the flexibility it allows for family life. There are lots out there like me.

I think I touched a nerve and such natural defensiveness or sensitivity to class distinctions is one of the biggest signs of being MC. However, look at the sum totality of what was written. It’s not a bright line.

Huh? Not defensive at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"This is ridiculous. Very few UMC families are in elite circles with the rich and powerful. Many of us are simply dual income white collar worker bees."

Then you're not UMC. And you don't realize that many, if not most, of "the powerful" have salaries of $200K or less. You might have a nice income, but you don't belong to that elite UMC grouping. UMC people are not worker bees. Many work around the clock, but their work often involves higher level thinking and relationship building. Or they have skills and credentials that garner high salaries, like physicians or CPAs. These aren't people who punch a time clock or get paid overtime. They might only earn about the same as a DC cop with seniority who pulls lots of overtime and side gigs, but how they earn that money is very different.

I am a CPA and my spouse is a physician (since you brought those two professions up) and I echo what PP said: this is ridiculous. We don’t hang out with the rich and the powerful, we’re not inviting Congresspeople and their staff to our kids’ baptisms, and neither are most of our CPA / physician coworkers. I wouldn’t dare call our family middle class, though.

Same here. HHI around 750-1 mil. DH is in finance, I’m an editor.

We don’t know any Congress people or anyone at the WH (and with the state of the GOP, I don’t want to either).

I doubt you could call us middle class though. We both have grad degrees and BAs from top schools.

We have a $2m HHI. We live in an affluent neighborhood. A few former congressmen do live in our neighborhood. We wave hi but that is the extent of our relationship.

DH and I were high achievers. Our children are strong students and have every resource at their disposal. We know a few high powered people but not necessarily well. I’m sure one day if my kid was interested in a certain field, we would know a friend of a friend who could get my kid an internship or at least an interview. My kid would need to have the credentials and work ethic to make it though.

I find the wannabe UC to be the most obnoxious. They are constantly name dropping and just annoying to be around. They don’t really know anyone but pretend to know everyone.

What’s a wannabe UC person?

[Anonymous]

All, thank you for this thread. It is fascinating to read everyone’s thoughts and opinions. I love the occasional snarky comments - I appreciate every laugh I can get these days. Covid chat is everywhere. Good to get away from that once in a while.
For the rare few who are disgusted or think this thread is “shit”- don’t read it. It’s just an exchange of ideas. Don’t take it so seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"This is ridiculous. Very few UMC families are in elite circles with the rich and powerful. Many of us are simply dual income white collar worker bees."

Then you're not UMC. And you don't realize that many, if not most, of "the powerful" have salaries of $200K or less. You might have a nice income, but you don't belong to that elite UMC grouping. UMC people are not worker bees. Many work around the clock, but their work often involves higher level thinking and relationship building. Or they have skills and credentials that garner high salaries, like physicians or CPAs. These aren't people who punch a time clock or get paid overtime. They might only earn about the same as a DC cop with seniority who pulls lots of overtime and side gigs, but how they earn that money is very different.

I am a CPA and my spouse is a physician (since you brought those two professions up) and I echo what PP said: this is ridiculous. We don’t hang out with the rich and the powerful, we’re not inviting Congresspeople and their staff to our kids’ baptisms, and neither are most of our CPA / physician coworkers. I wouldn’t dare call our family middle class, though.

Same here. HHI around 750-1 mil. DH is in finance, I’m an editor.

We don’t know any Congress people or anyone at the WH (and with the state of the GOP, I don’t want to either).

I doubt you could call us middle class though. We both have grad degrees and BAs from top schools.

We have a $2m HHI. We live in an affluent neighborhood. A few former congressmen do live in our neighborhood. We wave hi but that is the extent of our relationship.

DH and I were high achievers. Our children are strong students and have every resource at their disposal. We know a few high powered people but not necessarily well. I’m sure one day if my kid was interested in a certain field, we would know a friend of a friend who could get my kid an internship or at least an interview. My kid would need to have the credentials and work ethic to make it though.

I find the wannabe UC to be the most obnoxious. They are constantly name dropping and just annoying to be around. They don’t really know anyone but pretend to know everyone.

What’s a wannabe UC person?

They are people who only do things that make them look rich. You will know them when you meet them. They are often not actually rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nice house on a quiet, leafy street with other children their age to play with. I’m picturing something from a Nancy Meyer movie - a big old colonial or Victorian that has a ton of old school charm but updated kitchens and bathrooms with modern finishes.

Lots of books for every member of the household.

A piano or other musical instruments.

Parents who are home early enough every night for family dinner at 6 or 6:30.

Bonus points for at least one parent being able to get home early enough to greet kids off the school bus, give them a snack, hear about their day, host play dates, take them to activities, etc. In our house, it’s my husband (doctor with a flex schedule) who does this!

If parents are unable to be home early like this, a typical UNC/UC family will hire a housekeeper to perform the role plus cook, clean, and run errands.

Parents who value education which means a top private or public school. Parents should volunteer in the schools regularly and help with homework and projects. Parents should save for college so they are able to pay 100% of their kids’ schools of choice so they have no student debt.

Private music and sports lessons. Typical UMC/UC families belong to a country club, where their children learn to swim, play tennis and golf (at least the boys anyway, the girls might choose something like horseback riding or dance), and ski.

Vacations: the typical schedule seems to me to be an annual ski trip out West, a trip to the Caribbean to escape winter weather, 10 days to 2 weeks in Europe, PLUS 1-2 weeks at a nice East Coast beach. Richer folk will have their own beach house. At least this is what I’ve observed among the he people I know in CC, Bethesda, and Arlington.

Sleep away summer camp for tween years

New car at 16 (doesn’t have to be extravagant)

Semester abroad in college

[b]This is me minus no semester abroad. was given a choice and I chose a vacation abroad and a cruise instead. I only did one sleep away camp. I came back with a boyfriend so I was not ever sent on another one. Lol. I had not a care in the world and I think that is something LC families do not have the luxury of possessing. They worry about bills like an adult, if Mom or Dad will have a job, or they worry that they cannot afford nice clothes or wonder if they will ever get a car.

[Anonymous]

A safety net. If I fall short, I know my Dad will give me up to 100K without even a blink. DH and I do great but we are not afraid to take risks because we know we have a safety net that a lot do not have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"This is ridiculous. Very few UMC families are in elite circles with the rich and powerful. Many of us are simply dual income white collar worker bees."

Then you're not UMC. And you don't realize that many, if not most, of "the powerful" have salaries of $200K or less. You might have a nice income, but you don't belong to that elite UMC grouping. UMC people are not worker bees. Many work around the clock, but their work often involves higher level thinking and relationship building. Or they have skills and credentials that garner high salaries, like physicians or CPAs. These aren't people who punch a time clock or get paid overtime. They might only earn about the same as a DC cop with seniority who pulls lots of overtime and side gigs, but how they earn that money is very different.

"Elite UMC" is an oxymoron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UMC in an Urban environment and LMAO at the house descriptions. We have had the same Nanny for 10 years (educated mid-westerner who was a former kindergarten teacher), sleep away camp, travel to six continents so far, private schools, swim team, sailing, tennis, golf, plus enrichment activities like summers in Spain for language school, tutors, volunteer opportunities (with animals) and luckily our DCs are kind souls. I did not grow up well-off.

What is ballpark income to do the above?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you aren't born into wealth and social status, you'll never really be upper class. I say this as someone who went to Phillips Academy Andover for high school and met a lot of kids from that world. My parents could afford to pay full freight, but I quickly realized I would never be part of the world some of those kids occupied, no matter how much money my parents make. That's fine--it doesn't bother me--but it's the reality.

Truly upper class people don't make their money from paychecks. They make their money through dividends. They have trust funds. They have dorms named after their families. Their families have been going to Ivy League schools since the early 1900s. They have legacy at prep schools like Andover, Brearley, and Collegiate.

It's not about vacations, nannies, etc. It's about whether you have generations of participation in the halls of power in this country.

If you haven't been born into that world, you will never be truly accepted into it, no matter how much money you make.

But isn’t this the beauty of America? You can make it in one generation and you dgaf who accepts you or not, actually plenty of UC people stand in line to greet truly successful entrepreneurs.

Also, Bezos wasn’t born in that world. Do you think he has any issues fitting in or he even cares?

I think having parents who come from a lower social class who rose up is a benefit. Talking about grit and determination and the things they didn't have growing up helps a child to appreciate his UMC or even UC privilege and gives them a different perspective.

I wasn’t talking about whether that can give someone a different perspective. I was talking about whether you’ll be accepted.

A billionaire entrepreneur might be an exception, but I know for a fact that being considered upper class by those born into it requires more than money and material possessions. It’s not fair, but it’s the truth.

Ok but when is it even relevant?
Most UMC/UC people don't run in these very closed circles. I went to college in NYC and knew quite a handful of kids who had university buildings named after them, grew up on Park or 5th.. they have their own social circle now surely. By the way, they were lovely, funny sweet kids for the most part and did socialize with a number of normal kids despite having billion dollar inheritances. Does it really matter what they think? if they can detect from mannerisms that someone didn't grow up like them? I mean, who cares? This seems like an odd thing to be hung up on. This is why people come on DCUM anyways and say they are UMC when they make 5mil a year.. because for every one of those.. there is someone else coming to tell them they aren't really true UC because they weren't raised with a silver spoon. What is people's obsession with old money? I'm impressed with people who are self made and their stories. It's more interesting to me personally.

[Anonymous]

A few distinctions:

UMC values
*Given X budget for a house, chooses a smaller or more modest house in a better location
*Social circle has a wide range of professional careers. If your kid wanted to shadow or interview someone with a specific job.. whether in tech, medicine, law, education.. it would be no issue to think of a connection for them
*Kids camps, activities or tutoring is more important than the cars they drive or labels they wear

[Anonymous]

- Nice single family home in a good school district (Fairfax County)
- Lots of international and exotic travel
- Lots of international friends
- speak multiple languages
- intellectual discussions in the home: history, literature, politics, economics, sciences
- dinner parties where we were taught how to socialize and mingle with others
- lots of books and artistic exposure
- museums visits