AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022

[Anonymous]

And you don’t have to go toe to toe with the great unwashed. The thumb on the scale gets heavier. The haves get more.

[Anonymous]

But this notion that you are avoiding going toe-to-toe is unwarranted. DC did great on the APs but they are just an additional arbitrary hoop when there are already plenty of those. No need to waste time on what someone somewhere else is dictating and instead just let the teachers teach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And you don’t have to go toe to toe with the great unwashed. The thumb on the scale gets heavier. The haves get more.

Interesting to see what a flashpoint APs are becoming for public school parents. If the top students at private schools are taking the same course as the top students at public schools, you can argue that public provides just as good an education as private. If private schools now offer something "better," then it's hard to claim equivalence.

On a related note, the Headmaster of Friends School in Baltimore has an op-ed in today's Sun, making the case against AP. Neither Friends nor Park, the two "progressive" private schools in Baltimore have offered APs for a long time, if ever. Gilman hasn't offered AP courses in the humanities for more than a decade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why are public school parents so freaked out by the decision by a handful of private schools to walk way from the APs? What scares them so much.

i think they are more bemused by private schools styling themselves as beyond the APs.

I'm not sure they are bemused. It seems to go beyond that based on this thread. They seem pretty worked up to me.

I think a lot of public school parents who frequent the private school board have a measure of insecurity about whether they are providing their child the best possible education. When private and public schools alike are offering the same curriculum to their “best” students, that insecurity is alleviated. When private schools are now planning to offer something that could be perceived as better than public schools’ best, that insecurity is exacerbated.

I don’t have a dog in the fight, other than my disdain for the College Board, and anything that exposes their scams - high schools dropping AP, colleges going test optional or at least dropping the SAT essay requirement - makes me happy

though, at the same time, i think private school parents really want to believe that, because they are spending so much money on tuition, their school must be the very best school but these schools' prices are not an indication of their quality -- they're merely an indication the these schools don't get financial support from the government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i have to admit i do not get the backlash against AP classes. If I was in charge of college admissions and I had two kids, one of whom went to Sidwell Friends and took no APs, and one who went to a public high school and took a slew of AP classes (and did well on the AP tests), I'd be inclined to take the public-school kid.

Clueless

Did you also know that MCPS gives an entire 1.0 higher for both honors and AP courses. And MCPS "honors" courses are basically "not remedial" courses.
Did you know that a 79.5 and a 89.5 equal an A for a semester every time at MCPS
So a kid taking honors English will get a 5.0 for those two grades above?

This is why I wish my neighbor would stop bragging about his kids being all A's in MCPS!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why are public school parents so freaked out by the decision by a handful of private schools to walk way from the APs? What scares them so much.

i think they are more bemused by private schools styling themselves as beyond the APs.

I'm not sure they are bemused. It seems to go beyond that based on this thread. They seem pretty worked up to me.

I think a lot of public school parents who frequent the private school board have a measure of insecurity about whether they are providing their child the best possible education. When private and public schools alike are offering the same curriculum to their “best” students, that insecurity is alleviated. When private schools are now planning to offer something that could be perceived as better than public schools’ best, that insecurity is exacerbated.

I don’t have a dog in the fight, other than my disdain for the College Board, and anything that exposes their scams - high schools dropping AP, colleges going test optional or at least dropping the SAT essay requirement - makes me happy

though, at the same time, i think private school parents really want to believe that, because they are spending so much money on tuition, their school must be the very best school but these schools' prices are not an indication of their quality -- they're merely an indication the these schools don't get financial support from the government.

?? Can't speak for all of 'em of course, but DC's has an endowment of over $170 million, and of course skads of buildings like the science building, the performing arts center, the athletic center (which wouldn't be out of place on any college campus) all paid for by rich donors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why are public school parents so freaked out by the decision by a handful of private schools to walk way from the APs? What scares them so much.

i think they are more bemused by private schools styling themselves as beyond the APs.

I'm not sure they are bemused. It seems to go beyond that based on this thread. They seem pretty worked up to me.

I think a lot of public school parents who frequent the private school board have a measure of insecurity about whether they are providing their child the best possible education. When private and public schools alike are offering the same curriculum to their “best” students, that insecurity is alleviated. When private schools are now planning to offer something that could be perceived as better than public schools’ best, that insecurity is exacerbated.

I don’t have a dog in the fight, other than my disdain for the College Board, and anything that exposes their scams - high schools dropping AP, colleges going test optional or at least dropping the SAT essay requirement - makes me happy

though, at the same time, i think private school parents really want to believe that, because they are spending so much money on tuition, their school must be the very best school but these schools' prices are not an indication of their quality -- they're merely an indication the these schools don't get financial support from the government.

In most cases, independent school parents are choosing what we think is best for our individual children. We have the luxury of not particularly having to worry about tuition or cost/benefit analysis and would prefer to spend our money on our children instead of other things. If my child was math/science focused, I certainly would have been inclined toward the public magnets. But, for a humanities focused child, the DC area suburban public schools are at a great disadvantage. Classes are too large for extensive writing. Public bureaucracy limits what students read in the classroom. And, too few students are prepared to do the heavy intellectual lifting. I'm happy to support higher property taxes to keep improving public schools and my decision lets the public schools teach one less student for the same tax revenue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This says it all! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

One AP government teacher, Michael Grill of Wakefield High School in Arlington, Va., said, “When administrators can trade on the cachet of their school’s reputation to help get their students into college, it’s really not that bold nor courageous to abandon a metric that can contribute to leveling the playing field.”

Well yes. Because the schools have a reputation for challenging coursework and accomplished students, they don't need someone else's stamp to say they have challenging coursework and accomplished students. If the schools fail to produce accomplished students, by means of challenging coursework, they will no longer be able to trade on their reputation.

This isn't just true for private schools. I don't think anyone would argue that TJ, for example, doesn't also have the ability to trade on their schools reputation, outside of any external authority branding their students as accomplished and their coursework as challenging.

Michael Grill gets an A+ for stating the obvious. If you consistently produce an excellent product, you will have a reputation for consistently producing an excellent product.

APs are also the opposite of an equalizer. If a kid at a rich suburban public school with abundant resources and excellent teachers like Wakefield gets a 5 on an exam, while an equally bright and driven inner-city kid without those resources gets a 2, it looks like the wealthy kid is a superior student. Colleges won't know the variables that went into those scores, and will use the scores to compare the students.

It should not be the job of schools to implement a system they feel is wrong for their students in order to make comparing students easier for college admissions officers. It should be the job of colleges to know each school/school system.

If schools like Sidwell, Cathedrals, and Potomac think that they can provide a more enriching academic experience without APs, than they should go for it. Not everything is about college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And you don’t have to go toe to toe with the great unwashed. The thumb on the scale gets heavier. The haves get more.

Interesting to see what a flashpoint APs are becoming for public school parents. If the top students at private schools are taking the same course as the top students at public schools, you can argue that public provides just as good an education as private. If private schools now offer something "better," then it's hard to claim equivalence.

On a related note, the Headmaster of Friends School in Baltimore has an op-ed in today's Sun, making the case against AP. Neither Friends nor Park, the two "progressive" private schools in Baltimore have offered APs for a long time, if ever. Gilman hasn't offered AP courses in the humanities for more than a decade.

Not AP stamped courses, but Gilman students can take the AP tests, and they can also take AP-labeled humanities classes from Bryn Mawr or RPCS. That said, those schools also seem to be moving away from AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why are public school parents so freaked out by the decision by a handful of private schools to walk way from the APs? What scares them so much.

i think they are more bemused by private schools styling themselves as beyond the APs.

I'm not sure they are bemused. It seems to go beyond that based on this thread. They seem pretty worked up to me.

I think a lot of public school parents who frequent the private school board have a measure of insecurity about whether they are providing their child the best possible education. When private and public schools alike are offering the same curriculum to their “best” students, that insecurity is alleviated. When private schools are now planning to offer something that could be perceived as better than public schools’ best, that insecurity is exacerbated.

I don’t have a dog in the fight, other than my disdain for the College Board, and anything that exposes their scams - high schools dropping AP, colleges going test optional or at least dropping the SAT essay requirement - makes me happy

though, at the same time, i think private school parents really want to believe that, because they are spending so much money on tuition, their school must be the very best school but these schools' prices are not an indication of their quality -- they're merely an indication the these schools don't get financial support from the government.

In most cases, independent school parents are choosing what we think is best for our individual children. We have the luxury of not particularly having to worry about tuition or cost/benefit analysis and would prefer to spend our money on our children instead of other things. If my child was math/science focused, I certainly would have been inclined toward the public magnets. But, for a humanities focused child, the DC area suburban public schools are at a great disadvantage. Classes are too large for extensive writing. Public bureaucracy limits what students read in the classroom. And, too few students are prepared to do the heavy intellectual lifting. I'm happy to support higher property taxes to keep improving public schools and my decision lets the public schools teach one less student for the same tax revenue.

I think the language immersion schools are the most impressive schools in the District. It seems amazing to me that seven-year olds are learning science and math and all the other subjects in a foreign language.

[Anonymous]

My favorite part of this whole discussion is how the private schools, while they argue how worthless the APs are, simultaneously give super creepy entrance tests to three-year olds that supposedly measure their aptitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My favorite part of this whole discussion is how the private schools, while they argue how worthless the APs are, simultaneously give super creepy entrance tests to three-year olds that supposedly measure their aptitude.

The tests themselves are not super creepy. My DC thought it was fun to meet an adult who didn't treat him like a baby and thought they were just playing games. The troubling part was that the WPPSI mostly reflected family advantages -- being brought up in a highly verbal household with lots of reading and interaction with adults. It certainly disadvantaged kids raised in a non-English household or who don't have parents who can be deeply engaged. It also leaves behind children from families that don't actively encourage little children to speak up and out. Worse, it gave some parents the notion that their children are exceptional for life, as opposed to their kids having led exceptionally privileged young lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My favorite part of this whole discussion is how the private schools, while they argue how worthless the APs are, simultaneously give super creepy entrance tests to three-year olds that supposedly measure their aptitude.

The tests themselves are not super creepy. My DC thought it was fun to meet an adult who didn't treat him like a baby and thought they were just playing games. The troubling part was that the WPPSI mostly reflected family advantages -- being brought up in a highly verbal household with lots of reading and interaction with adults. It certainly disadvantaged kids raised in a non-English household or who don't have parents who can be deeply engaged. It also leaves behind children from families that don't actively encourage little children to speak up and out. Worse, it gave some parents the notion that their children are exceptional for life, as opposed to their kids having led exceptionally privileged young lives.

im guessing all those tests can do is identify children with severe disabilities. anything beyond that seems like voodoo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My favorite part of this whole discussion is how the private schools, while they argue how worthless the APs are, simultaneously give super creepy entrance tests to three-year olds that supposedly measure their aptitude.

The tests themselves are not super creepy. My DC thought it was fun to meet an adult who didn't treat him like a baby and thought they were just playing games. The troubling part was that the WPPSI mostly reflected family advantages -- being brought up in a highly verbal household with lots of reading and interaction with adults. It certainly disadvantaged kids raised in a non-English household or who don't have parents who can be deeply engaged. It also leaves behind children from families that don't actively encourage little children to speak up and out. Worse, it gave some parents the notion that their children are exceptional for life, as opposed to their kids having led exceptionally privileged young lives.

Per https://bit.ly/2NjqlpG

“The WPPSI is actually very, very kind—most students fall in the 90th percentiles,” Cahill says, noting that this can create some interesting “But my kid is a genius!” situations.

Admissions directors say they aren’t that concerned with the score itself. “I’m not looking for rocket scientists—we do have some of those here, but we also have students with very average scores,” says Kathleen Visconti, director of admissions and financial aid at DC’s Washington International School. “What I’m looking for are any discrepancies that fall below the normal level. That can be a red flag.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why are public school parents so freaked out by the decision by a handful of private schools to walk way from the APs? What scares them so much.

i think they are more bemused by private schools styling themselves as beyond the APs.

I'm not sure they are bemused. It seems to go beyond that based on this thread. They seem pretty worked up to me.

I think a lot of public school parents who frequent the private school board have a measure of insecurity about whether they are providing their child the best possible education. When private and public schools alike are offering the same curriculum to their “best” students, that insecurity is alleviated. When private schools are now planning to offer something that could be perceived as better than public schools’ best, that insecurity is exacerbated.

I don’t have a dog in the fight, other than my disdain for the College Board, and anything that exposes their scams - high schools dropping AP, colleges going test optional or at least dropping the SAT essay requirement - makes me happy

though, at the same time, i think private school parents really want to believe that, because they are spending so much money on tuition, their school must be the very best school but these schools' prices are not an indication of their quality -- they're merely an indication the these schools don't get financial support from the government.

?? Can't speak for all of 'em of course, but DC's has an endowment of over $170 million, and of course skads of buildings like the science building, the performing arts center, the athletic center (which wouldn't be out of place on any college campus) all paid for by rich donors.

How much is tuition and how much FA is given?