Hijab/headscarf for Muslims

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's lots of breathable fabric to wear in summer, for those who chose to cover themselves. I haven't heard Muslim women died due to heat because of they covered themselves.

As to why, they are believers, no matter at what stage, beginner or pious. Their choices and why are between them and God.

Not all coverage are bad. We'll make our own choices. Some believe they are too precious to be shared with others. Ex: I choose to buy unopened packages of Oreo, rather than the open packages, because I want the best Oreos in the store.

This is a terrible analogy. You are basically equating women to cookies, that is, something to be consumed by other people, not a human being who exists for herself.

That's terribly sad, and what upsets me most about the hijab.

You are also saying that women who DON'T wear the hijab are not "the best." This is in exact opposition to the argument that hijab is a personal choice and reflects no opinion on non-hijab wearers or their piety or their goodness.

Mona Eltahawy, an Egyptian commentator, stopped wearing hijab after a woman on a bus told her that she was not covered enough wearing just a headscarf, because no one wants a half-wrapped piece of candy. Her response was "I am not candy." And then she stopped wearing the hijab.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's lots of breathable fabric to wear in summer, for those who chose to cover themselves. I haven't heard Muslim women died due to heat because of they covered themselves.

As to why, they are believers, no matter at what stage, beginner or pious. Their choices and why are between them and God.

Not all coverage are bad. We'll make our own choices. Some believe they are too precious to be shared with others. Ex: I choose to buy unopened packages of Oreo, rather than the open packages, because I want the best Oreos in the store.

The saddest part of this comment is that the poster actually believes she's being cute and cheeky about being in control of her sexuality and she can't even see why it simply highlights the complete opposite.


Really disgusting and highly disturbing thought process going on here and with the whole hijabi movement.

Speaks volumes of all that is wrong with this deeply rooted mentality within some ''believers'' of that religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please accept it when muslims say that they wear hijab willingly even if it's because of the religion. Stop telling them about those people outside US that might be forced or pressured to wear it. They have nothing to do with it. Why make them responsible for it. Just drop the issue once you hear the reply from those you get to ask directly.

This seems true for the majority,if not all, of American wearers. The conversation here had moved on to "why", since the Quran doesn't seem to require it, but Hadith may. Some have suggested there's community pressure, or the imam strongly suggested it, others have suggested it's identity politics or a political fu.

It's a type of spiritual practice, which I understand. I understand that a person who wears it may feel they are doing something for God.

However, I personally refuse to believe that God would want a woman to cover every inch of her body in public or in 100 degree heat, or dress in a way that precludes movement, or never get to feel the warm sun on her legs or her arms.

There's no joy in Islam, no love. It's just work, work, work, to avoid the eternal hellfire. Do 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 so you won't piss off God.

I believe a version of this. Human bodies are beautiful because God created them, not despite that, and God wants us to rejoice in our differences. I believe God wants humanity to learn to make good decisions about marriage, family and fighting by using the wisdom he also gave us. Not because he set down a bunch of bean-counting rules about women covering and fighting people who don't tow the line about what we happen to think God wants. God gave us wisdom and brains and judgement, and He wants us to use to live in godly ways.

No one really knows what god wants, and neither do you. Your theories are as good as the next person's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please accept it when muslims say that they wear hijab willingly even if it's because of the religion. Stop telling them about those people outside US that might be forced or pressured to wear it. They have nothing to do with it. Why make them responsible for it. Just drop the issue once you hear the reply from those you get to ask directly.

This seems true for the majority,if not all, of American wearers. The conversation here had moved on to "why", since the Quran doesn't seem to require it, but Hadith may. Some have suggested there's community pressure, or the imam strongly suggested it, others have suggested it's identity politics or a political fu.

It's a type of spiritual practice, which I understand. I understand that a person who wears it may feel they are doing something for God.

However, I personally refuse to believe that God would want a woman to cover every inch of her body in public or in 100 degree heat, or dress in a way that precludes movement, or never get to feel the warm sun on her legs or her arms.

There's no joy in Islam, no love. It's just work, work, work, to avoid the eternal hellfire. Do 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 so you won't piss off God.

I believe a version of this. Human bodies are beautiful because God created them, not despite that, and God wants us to rejoice in our differences. I believe God wants humanity to learn to make good decisions about marriage, family and fighting by using the wisdom he also gave us. Not because he set down a bunch of bean-counting rules about women covering and fighting people who don't tow the line about what we happen to think God wants. God gave us wisdom and brains and judgement, and He wants us to use to live in godly ways.

No one really knows what god wants, and neither do you. Your theories are as good as the next person's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's lots of breathable fabric to wear in summer, for those who chose to cover themselves. I haven't heard Muslim women died due to heat because of they covered themselves.

As to why, they are believers, no matter at what stage, beginner or pious. Their choices and why are between them and God.

Not all coverage are bad. We'll make our own choices. Some believe they are too precious to be shared with others. Ex: I choose to buy unopened packages of Oreo, rather than the open packages, because I want the best Oreos in the store.

You are completely ridiculous and utterly unoriginal in this line of thinking, repeating the best lines of the Bin Baz University. Other variations: our women are precious gems that we must keep hidden from others; do not shake the egg too much because it can break and become useless; the wrapped candy is better than the unwrapped one etc. You insult every thinking covering woman by comparing them to commodities to be consumed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please accept it when muslims say that they wear hijab willingly even if it's because of the religion. Stop telling them about those people outside US that might be forced or pressured to wear it. They have nothing to do with it. Why make them responsible for it. Just drop the issue once you hear the reply from those you get to ask directly.

This seems true for the majority,if not all, of American wearers. The conversation here had moved on to "why", since the Quran doesn't seem to require it, but Hadith may. Some have suggested there's community pressure, or the imam strongly suggested it, others have suggested it's identity politics or a political fu.

It's a type of spiritual practice, which I understand. I understand that a person who wears it may feel they are doing something for God.

However, I personally refuse to believe that God would want a woman to cover every inch of her body in public or in 100 degree heat, or dress in a way that precludes movement, or never get to feel the warm sun on her legs or her arms.

There's no joy in Islam, no love. It's just work, work, work, to avoid the eternal hellfire. Do 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 so you won't piss off God.

I believe a version of this. Human bodies are beautiful because God created them, not despite that, and God wants us to rejoice in our differences. I believe God wants humanity to learn to make good decisions about marriage, family and fighting by using the wisdom he also gave us. Not because he set down a bunch of bean-counting rules about women covering and fighting people who don't tow the line about what we happen to think God wants. God gave us wisdom and brains and judgement, and He wants us to use to live in godly ways.

No one really knows what god wants, and neither do you. Your theories are as good as the next person's.

So that means that the theories of the people who joined ISIS are just as good as my theories, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please accept it when muslims say that they wear hijab willingly even if it's because of the religion. Stop telling them about those people outside US that might be forced or pressured to wear it. They have nothing to do with it. Why make them responsible for it. Just drop the issue once you hear the reply from those you get to ask directly.

This seems true for the majority,if not all, of American wearers. The conversation here had moved on to "why", since the Quran doesn't seem to require it, but Hadith may. Some have suggested there's community pressure, or the imam strongly suggested it, others have suggested it's identity politics or a political fu.

It's a type of spiritual practice, which I understand. I understand that a person who wears it may feel they are doing something for God.

However, I personally refuse to believe that God would want a woman to cover every inch of her body in public or in 100 degree heat, or dress in a way that precludes movement, or never get to feel the warm sun on her legs or her arms.

There's no joy in Islam, no love. It's just work, work, work, to avoid the eternal hellfire. Do 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 so you won't piss off God.

I believe a version of this. Human bodies are beautiful because God created them, not despite that, and God wants us to rejoice in our differences. I believe God wants humanity to learn to make good decisions about marriage, family and fighting by using the wisdom he also gave us. Not because he set down a bunch of bean-counting rules about women covering and fighting people who don't tow the line about what we happen to think God wants. God gave us wisdom and brains and judgement, and He wants us to use to live in godly ways.

No one really knows what god wants, and neither do you. Your theories are as good as the next person's.

If you believe in a God who is (a) rational, and (b) loving, you can certainly rule out some irrational and unfair things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's lots of breathable fabric to wear in summer, for those who chose to cover themselves. I haven't heard Muslim women died due to heat because of they covered themselves.

As to why, they are believers, no matter at what stage, beginner or pious. Their choices and why are between them and God.

Not all coverage are bad. We'll make our own choices. Some believe they are too precious to be shared with others. Ex: I choose to buy unopened packages of Oreo, rather than the open packages, because I want the best Oreos in the store.

You are completely ridiculous and utterly unoriginal in this line of thinking, repeating the best lines of the Bin Baz University. Other variations: our women are precious gems that we must keep hidden from others; do not shake the egg too much because it can break and become useless; the wrapped candy is better than the unwrapped one etc. You insult every thinking covering woman by comparing them to commodities to be consumed.

I want to know what this egg shaking thing is about. Sex? Is shaking an egg sex?

Also, and I know this has been debated on this thread infinite times, I do want to know what "thinking covering women" are thinking. How could this practice possibly be connected to God? What is the value in it?

[Anonymous]

According to God (in Islam), he wants adherents to be modest. That means to not stand out or stick out, be flashy or outlandish - both in clothing, and in lifestyle.

So the wealthy Arabs with the fancy cars, gaudy houses, but simple cotton garb? They're not modest.

Wearing niqab in most places? Not at ALL modest - you're completely drawing attention to yourself.

Hijab is becoming more commonplace, and I couldn't care less whether people wear it or not. But the hijabis with the high heals, leggings, and full face of makeup are comical.

In Islam, the goal is to not draw attention to yourself. The goal is NOT to cover up - but many Muslims themselves don't understand this distinction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's lots of breathable fabric to wear in summer, for those who chose to cover themselves. I haven't heard Muslim women died due to heat because of they covered themselves.

As to why, they are believers, no matter at what stage, beginner or pious. Their choices and why are between them and God.

Not all coverage are bad. We'll make our own choices. Some believe they are too precious to be shared with others. Ex: I choose to buy unopened packages of Oreo, rather than the open packages, because I want the best Oreos in the store.

This is a terrible analogy. You are basically equating women to cookies, that is, something to be consumed by other people, not a human being who exists for herself.

That's terribly sad, and what upsets me most about the hijab.

You are also saying that women who DON'T wear the hijab are not "the best." This is in exact opposition to the argument that hijab is a personal choice and reflects no opinion on non-hijab wearers or their piety or their goodness.

Mona Eltahawy, an Egyptian commentator, stopped wearing hijab after a woman on a bus told her that she was not covered enough wearing just a headscarf, because no one wants a half-wrapped piece of candy. Her response was "I am not candy." And then she stopped wearing the hijab.

this. The pp's post almost makes me think that this is how all Muslim men view women. That we are simply somethings to be had, an object. We are similar to a food and if someone has had us before then we aren't worth anything. I can't imagine being part of a religion or culture that views women this way. It's just as bad as objectifying women for sex. It's pretty much the same thing. What's the different between a man who wants his wife covered up and a pervert predator who sexually assaults women? Pretty much nothing. They are both women who don't value women and see them as objects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:According to God (in Islam), he wants adherents to be modest. That means to not stand out or stick out, be flashy or outlandish - both in clothing, and in lifestyle.

So the wealthy Arabs with the fancy cars, gaudy houses, but simple cotton garb? They're not modest.

Wearing niqab in most places? Not at ALL modest - you're completely drawing attention to yourself.

Hijab is becoming more commonplace, and I couldn't care less whether people wear it or not. But the hijabis with the high heals, leggings, and full face of makeup are comical.

In Islam, the goal is to not draw attention to yourself. The goal is NOT to cover up - but many Muslims themselves don't understand this distinction.

I think the hijab draws a lot of attention towards the woman, especially when you live in a culture where women's hair is uncovered but you can still dress modestly (loose clothes, high necklines. Men in America are not lusting crazily over women's calves or hair.

On the contrary, when I was living in Egypt, I felt that men were staring at me, all the time, no matter what I was wearing. And I am pretty sure that hijab wearing women got the same treatment. The reason for this is that the men have internalized that women are objects, and they can do whatever they want to them, and it's the woman's fault for being sexually attractive to them. Coincidentally, this never happened to my mother, growing up in the 60s when most women did not wear hijab. These ideas are all connected- the idea that women (and ONLY women) must be "modest" or covered up, the idea that women are objects, and the idea that men are not responsible for their sexual feelings, women are. These are all connected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's lots of breathable fabric to wear in summer, for those who chose to cover themselves. I haven't heard Muslim women died due to heat because of they covered themselves.

As to why, they are believers, no matter at what stage, beginner or pious. Their choices and why are between them and God.

Not all coverage are bad. We'll make our own choices. Some believe they are too precious to be shared with others. Ex: I choose to buy unopened packages of Oreo, rather than the open packages, because I want the best Oreos in the store.

This is a terrible analogy. You are basically equating women to cookies, that is, something to be consumed by other people, not a human being who exists for herself.

That's terribly sad, and what upsets me most about the hijab.

You are also saying that women who DON'T wear the hijab are not "the best." This is in exact opposition to the argument that hijab is a personal choice and reflects no opinion on non-hijab wearers or their piety or their goodness.

Mona Eltahawy, an Egyptian commentator, stopped wearing hijab after a woman on a bus told her that she was not covered enough wearing just a headscarf, because no one wants a half-wrapped piece of candy. Her response was "I am not candy." And then she stopped wearing the hijab.

this. The pp's post almost makes me think that this is how all Muslim men view women. That we are simply somethings to be had, an object. We are similar to a food and if someone has had us before then we aren't worth anything. I can't imagine being part of a religion or culture that views women this way. It's just as bad as objectifying women for sex. It's pretty much the same thing. What's the different between a man who wants his wife covered up and a pervert predator who sexually assaults women? Pretty much nothing. They are both women who don't value women and see them as objects.

It's just two sides of the same coin- women are an object, meant for men's pleasure or use.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to God (in Islam), he wants adherents to be modest. That means to not stand out or stick out, be flashy or outlandish - both in clothing, and in lifestyle.

So the wealthy Arabs with the fancy cars, gaudy houses, but simple cotton garb? They're not modest.

Wearing niqab in most places? Not at ALL modest - you're completely drawing attention to yourself.

Hijab is becoming more commonplace, and I couldn't care less whether people wear it or not. But the hijabis with the high heals, leggings, and full face of makeup are comical.

In Islam, the goal is to not draw attention to yourself. The goal is NOT to cover up - but many Muslims themselves don't understand this distinction.

I think the hijab draws a lot of attention towards the woman, especially when you live in a culture where women's hair is uncovered but you can still dress modestly (loose clothes, high necklines. Men in America are not lusting crazily over women's calves or hair.

On the contrary, when I was living in Egypt, I felt that men were staring at me, all the time, no matter what I was wearing. And I am pretty sure that hijab wearing women got the same treatment. The reason for this is that the men have internalized that women are objects, and they can do whatever they want to them, and it's the woman's fault for being sexually attractive to them. Coincidentally, this never happened to my mother, growing up in the 60s when most women did not wear hijab. These ideas are all connected- the idea that women (and ONLY women) must be "modest" or covered up, the idea that women are objects, and the idea that men are not responsible for their sexual feelings, women are. These are all connected.

PP, and I totally agree.

But there is a difference between what is meant by the religion (what I commented on), and what happens to be the case culturally speaking (what you posted) - it's been reinterpreted and redefined (by men who set the rules according to their own ideas). I'm not religious but I was raised Muslim - the whole modesty/hijab thing is something so many Muslims have just bastardized completely.

So when I see a woman wearing hijab here, it means nothing to me. It doesn't mean they're religious, or modest, or stupid, or whatever - it doesn't tell you a damn thing because the whole concept has just been bastardized to mean anything conclusive. It's nothing more than a cloth that a woman decided to cover he hair. Just like I'm wearing sewn cloth to cover my feet. It's a type of garment, and that's it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to God (in Islam), he wants adherents to be modest. That means to not stand out or stick out, be flashy or outlandish - both in clothing, and in lifestyle.

So the wealthy Arabs with the fancy cars, gaudy houses, but simple cotton garb? They're not modest.

Wearing niqab in most places? Not at ALL modest - you're completely drawing attention to yourself.

Hijab is becoming more commonplace, and I couldn't care less whether people wear it or not. But the hijabis with the high heals, leggings, and full face of makeup are comical.

In Islam, the goal is to not draw attention to yourself. The goal is NOT to cover up - but many Muslims themselves don't understand this distinction.

I think the hijab draws a lot of attention towards the woman, especially when you live in a culture where women's hair is uncovered but you can still dress modestly (loose clothes, high necklines. Men in America are not lusting crazily over women's calves or hair.

On the contrary, when I was living in Egypt, I felt that men were staring at me, all the time, no matter what I was wearing. And I am pretty sure that hijab wearing women got the same treatment. The reason for this is that the men have internalized that women are objects, and they can do whatever they want to them, and it's the woman's fault for being sexually attractive to them. Coincidentally, this never happened to my mother, growing up in the 60s when most women did not wear hijab. These ideas are all connected- the idea that women (and ONLY women) must be "modest" or covered up, the idea that women are objects, and the idea that men are not responsible for their sexual feelings, women are. These are all connected.

PP, and I totally agree.

But there is a difference between what is meant by the religion (what I commented on), and what happens to be the case culturally speaking (what you posted) - it's been reinterpreted and redefined (by men who set the rules according to their own ideas). I'm not religious but I was raised Muslim - the whole modesty/hijab thing is something so many Muslims have just bastardized completely.

So when I see a woman wearing hijab here, it means nothing to me. It doesn't mean they're religious, or modest, or stupid, or whatever - it doesn't tell you a damn thing because the whole concept has just been bastardized to mean anything conclusive. It's nothing more than a cloth that a woman decided to cover he hair. Just like I'm wearing sewn cloth to cover my feet. It's a type of garment, and that's it.

PP, since you were raised Muslim, I hope you can answer some questions that I will try to pose as respectfully as I can.

Why are women in America wearing that thing?

I am so torn. I am firmly in the camp of "wear whatever the hell you want," but at the same time, I feel a tinge of panic when I see women in hijab frequently. I think it is because I have connected the proliferation of hijab to the constant sexual harassment I experienced in Egypt. I wonder how young Muslim men are growing up, when they see women covering up. Are they being taught that women should be covering up like candy (or freaking Oreos?)? Are they being taught that women are responsible for their sexual urges? Are they being taught that the woman they eventually marry is "theirs" which is why only he will see her hair, basically?

I had a period of super-piety when I was a teenager (when most women are deciding to wear the hijab). I sort of grew out of it and changed my mind about a lot of things, but I think I am a better, more open, more complete person as a result. But I wonder, if there was a physical manifestation of my religiosity, would it have been harder to discard? Would I have become more hardened, instead of a more open person? If I felt like people were constantly judging me and staring at me because of my religious beliefs, I probably would have clung to them more closely, which I think would have been a bad thing. There was no room for growth when I was that person. Sorry for the crazy rambling but I really am fascinated/horrified by where Islamic practice is today. It's like a car accident I can't stop staring at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:According to God (in Islam), he wants adherents to be modest. That means to not stand out or stick out, be flashy or outlandish - both in clothing, and in lifestyle.

So the wealthy Arabs with the fancy cars, gaudy houses, but simple cotton garb? They're not modest.

Wearing niqab in most places? Not at ALL modest - you're completely drawing attention to yourself.

Hijab is becoming more commonplace, and I couldn't care less whether people wear it or not. But the hijabis with the high heals, leggings, and full face of makeup are comical.

In Islam, the goal is to not draw attention to yourself. The goal is NOT to cover up - but many Muslims themselves don't understand this distinction.

No, that's not the goal. Islam wants its adherents to be modest but not to avoid attention. It's to avoid attention for the wrong reasons. In a country where everyone wears a bikini day in and day out, Muslims are still required to cover, despite the fact that it will make them very obvious. One reason is to cover the parts that should be uncovered only to close family members. The other reason is to be known as Muslims. There is nothing in Islam to say that you should wear only the clothing that makes you unnoticeable.