BOE reconsidering the Virtual Academy, Leader in Me, and Innovative School Year Calendar

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

There have been the same discussions over and over again with the bullies demanding answers to silly questions and no matter what you say it’s not good enough. Why are you so invested in shutting the school down?

And not everything is simply about Covid. Time for you to move on. Maybe if you spent half as much time helping your kids as you do posting on social media your kids would have been more successful in school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

There have been the same discussions over and over again with the bullies demanding answers to silly questions and no matter what you say it’s not good enough. Why are you so invested in shutting the school down?

And not everything is simply about Covid. Time for you to move on. Maybe if you spent half as much time helping your kids as you do posting on social media your kids would have been more successful in school.

I don’t think it’s silly to ask what the families for whom going into a school is a life or death decision did before MCPS created the virtual academy a few years ago. It would help inform the discussion since proponents of the VA seem to be arguing that the choice is continuing to find the VA or depriving their kids of an education.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

There have been the same discussions over and over again with the bullies demanding answers to silly questions and no matter what you say it’s not good enough. Why are you so invested in shutting the school down?

And not everything is simply about Covid. Time for you to move on. Maybe if you spent half as much time helping your kids as you do posting on social media your kids would have been more successful in school.

I don’t think it’s silly to ask what the families for whom going into a school is a life or death decision did before MCPS created the virtual academy a few years ago. It would help inform the discussion since proponents of the VA seem to be arguing that the choice is continuing to find the VA or depriving their kids of an education.

With the caveat that I'm talking about one specific kid, a relative of mine who is not my own child, I'll tell you what their parents did. Since their condition is pretty rare, I'm going to be somewhat vague while trying to answer your question. My nibling had a major organ transplant as an early elementary schooler. While awaiting the transplant, they received some limited at-home services supplemented by parent teaching. After the transplant, they were still extremely vulnerable. Terrifyingly so, but their parents also wanted them to have as close to a normal childhood as possible, particularly because there was a chance they could end up needing another organ down the road.

Basically, a bad thing could happen no matter how careful the parents were, so it was more worth it to make sure my nibling felt like a normal kid than to make sure they were 100% safe.

The schools were, as far as I could tell, great. In the rest of elementary school, my nibling would be paired with a teacher willing to use upgraded disinfecting in the classroom, and their parents would send a stock email to all of the other parents in the class describing the situation and asking for enhanced attention to sending their kids in with "just a cold." The parents also made masks available (this was pre-covid, so it was unusual but no one felt their rights were being violated.)

Middle school was harder, particularly because covid happened in this period, but my nibling returned to school in fall 2021, so just a touch after the rest of their grade.

My nibling is in HS now, and still going to school in person. My sibling is greatful that their kid is generally compliant with the drug protocol and takes care of their own health, as a lot of transplant kids spin out around this age because they are so frustrated at the limitations.

End of the day, it's not perfect, but it works becuase my sibling was willing to take a chance on the adults and the kids in their community being fundamentally okay people who wanted to do the right thing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

MAP is also the test that the evaluators used to look at how MVA students were making progress compared to their peers attending in-person school.

"Students attending Virtual Academy in Grades 3, 4, and 5 were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022.

Within student service groups, MVA students receiving FARMS were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022, but EMLs did not differ between the two groups. Among Asian, Black or African American, White, and Hispanic/Latino students, MVA students were significantly less likely to meet projected reading growth compared with their inperson peers."

The other item that really stands out is chronic absences. Overall, absences in MS and HS were similar to in-person counterparts, but chronic absences among MVA kids were alarmingly high in the elementary grades in particular. Almost a quarter of MVA kids in 2nd - 5th grades were chronically absent. That's a shocking figure. If this were about mental or physical health, you'd expect the figures to be static across grades or even higher for MS and HS. The numbers being so high among the youngest kids suggests something else may be at play, either families enrolling in MVA to facilitate Disney trips in the off-season, or more nefarious motivations such as removing kids from the line of view of mandatory reporters.

Didn’t even read this. This forum is full of educational experts here. Yes! So with that logic let’s kick out all the chronically absent kids. At least I’d they aren’t going in person there is an option! And if you cared so much about mandated reporting where was the outcry with all the skipping last year? Did CPS get called with all the kids in person schools LOST the ability to locate? Where they called when students where doing illegal drugs in the bathroom and sexually assaulting students? You look ridiculous with your cherry picking about a program because virtual didn’t work for you. Go find a productive hobby.

We can't continue to fund a failing program based on vibes. If you refuse to engage with the data, I don't know what exle anyone can do, but MCPS has decided to evaluate three programs: MVA, IS, and LiM.

What I want from my school district is to look at expenditures, conduct evaluation of impact, and make evidence-based decisions on whether to move forward. Based on the existing data, both the IS calendar and MVA need reconsideration. Outcomes are worse, which is not the direction we want to see in any educational experiment.

As for the allegation of cherry-picking, you have admitted to not reading the evaluation nor do you want to engage in discussion about excerpts. I know it is scary to face whatever fears you have about in-person schools, but I don't think MCPS can in good conscience continue with a program that sees kids falling further behind their peers.

Right which is why any program that serves struggling students needs to be eliminated now! Test scores tank at alternative schools for violent or struggling students. End them now. Put all those students back in their neighborhood school where their low scores can be hidden. Don't serve them, don't educate them, hide them until they drop out. Success for the brand.
Bonus this keeps the repeat violent offenders in neighborhood schools where they can keep things hopping.

Honey, none of this is equivalent and you know it. The VA is a niche program paid for by federal dollars that are running out. It’s up to you to convince MCPS to find a new source of funding. None of the arguments in this thread have been very convincing- we get that you like having your kids at home and the small classes but what do you think MCPS should cut to continue enabling this privilege?

The home schools are receiving money for students who don’t attend the school. There is a good place to start. Mcps wastes so much money. Lots of things to cut. They spend far more money on in person so maybe we should all go back to virtual to save money.


I wish life was as simple as you make it sound.

MCPS consists of what, around 200 schools? I don’t think they’re exactly making bank by receiving money for on average, 4-5 students that aren’t attending.

Maybe we can close a few schools and have those kids virtual.

Maybe you should go on record at a public BOE meeting suggesting that. Then we’ll have a face to go along with your unhinged rants!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The resident virtual school lover must be losing her mind over the prospect of letting her kids leave her sight.

There's always homeschool!

Oh my... you simply don't get it. Must be nice to be self-absorbed and only care about your needs vs. the needs of others.

My kid also has some needs that public schools can't seem to fill, so we pay for a private school. Maybe you need to find a virtual school platform and pay for it yourself. Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for your conveniences.

Virtual public school options existed way before the pandemic, especially in large districts. In a district as large as MCPS, it should definitely continue to be an option. It could potentially grow to help more students for half day schedules, unique electives and night classes. Plenty of other fat to cut from the budget, especially at Hungerford/Gude.

Which ones? Most of the virtual programs I know about are administered at the state level. FL has many large school districts similar to the size of MCPS, but they don't have their own virtual programs. Same with Virginia. Every time someone asks for examples of large district level virtual programs, no one can provide it.

Let it go. The state is not going to run it. Why do you keep pushing that?

Why are you so resistant to the idea? It's looking more and more like MCPS won't run it after the funding runs out either, so you'll be on your own. Best of luck.

The Maryland constitution requires counties to run schools. I don’t think this is really an option .

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

There have been the same discussions over and over again with the bullies demanding answers to silly questions and no matter what you say it’s not good enough. Why are you so invested in shutting the school down?

And not everything is simply about Covid. Time for you to move on. Maybe if you spent half as much time helping your kids as you do posting on social media your kids would have been more successful in school.

Believe it or not, some of us are trying to understand your position more, but you’re so antagonistic and defensive. I hope you’re presenting your case better to MCPS. You’re not winning any supporters over here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

There have been the same discussions over and over again with the bullies demanding answers to silly questions and no matter what you say it’s not good enough. Why are you so invested in shutting the school down?

And not everything is simply about Covid. Time for you to move on. Maybe if you spent half as much time helping your kids as you do posting on social media your kids would have been more successful in school.

I don’t think it’s silly to ask what the families for whom going into a school is a life or death decision did before MCPS created the virtual academy a few years ago. It would help inform the discussion since proponents of the VA seem to be arguing that the choice is continuing to find the VA or depriving their kids of an education.

With the caveat that I'm talking about one specific kid, a relative of mine who is not my own child, I'll tell you what their parents did. Since their condition is pretty rare, I'm going to be somewhat vague while trying to answer your question. My nibling had a major organ transplant as an early elementary schooler. While awaiting the transplant, they received some limited at-home services supplemented by parent teaching. After the transplant, they were still extremely vulnerable. Terrifyingly so, but their parents also wanted them to have as close to a normal childhood as possible, particularly because there was a chance they could end up needing another organ down the road.

Basically, a bad thing could happen no matter how careful the parents were, so it was more worth it to make sure my nibling felt like a normal kid than to make sure they were 100% safe.

The schools were, as far as I could tell, great. In the rest of elementary school, my nibling would be paired with a teacher willing to use upgraded disinfecting in the classroom, and their parents would send a stock email to all of the other parents in the class describing the situation and asking for enhanced attention to sending their kids in with "just a cold." The parents also made masks available (this was pre-covid, so it was unusual but no one felt their rights were being violated.)

Middle school was harder, particularly because covid happened in this period, but my nibling returned to school in fall 2021, so just a touch after the rest of their grade.

My nibling is in HS now, and still going to school in person. My sibling is greatful that their kid is generally compliant with the drug protocol and takes care of their own health, as a lot of transplant kids spin out around this age because they are so frustrated at the limitations.

End of the day, it's not perfect, but it works becuase my sibling was willing to take a chance on the adults and the kids in their community being fundamentally okay people who wanted to do the right thing.

Thanks for this post. It’s always great to see examples of teachers working extra hard to make things work for their students. And it’s also informative to see how in-person school can work for even the most at-risk students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

There have been the same discussions over and over again with the bullies demanding answers to silly questions and no matter what you say it’s not good enough. Why are you so invested in shutting the school down?

And not everything is simply about Covid. Time for you to move on. Maybe if you spent half as much time helping your kids as you do posting on social media your kids would have been more successful in school.

I don’t think it’s silly to ask what the families for whom going into a school is a life or death decision did before MCPS created the virtual academy a few years ago. It would help inform the discussion since proponents of the VA seem to be arguing that the choice is continuing to find the VA or depriving their kids of an education.

With the caveat that I'm talking about one specific kid, a relative of mine who is not my own child, I'll tell you what their parents did. Since their condition is pretty rare, I'm going to be somewhat vague while trying to answer your question. My nibling had a major organ transplant as an early elementary schooler. While awaiting the transplant, they received some limited at-home services supplemented by parent teaching. After the transplant, they were still extremely vulnerable. Terrifyingly so, but their parents also wanted them to have as close to a normal childhood as possible, particularly because there was a chance they could end up needing another organ down the road.

Basically, a bad thing could happen no matter how careful the parents were, so it was more worth it to make sure my nibling felt like a normal kid than to make sure they were 100% safe.

The schools were, as far as I could tell, great. In the rest of elementary school, my nibling would be paired with a teacher willing to use upgraded disinfecting in the classroom, and their parents would send a stock email to all of the other parents in the class describing the situation and asking for enhanced attention to sending their kids in with "just a cold." The parents also made masks available (this was pre-covid, so it was unusual but no one felt their rights were being violated.)

Middle school was harder, particularly because covid happened in this period, but my nibling returned to school in fall 2021, so just a touch after the rest of their grade.

My nibling is in HS now, and still going to school in person. My sibling is greatful that their kid is generally compliant with the drug protocol and takes care of their own health, as a lot of transplant kids spin out around this age because they are so frustrated at the limitations.

End of the day, it's not perfect, but it works becuase my sibling was willing to take a chance on the adults and the kids in their community being fundamentally okay people who wanted to do the right thing.

Great post. I wonder how many kids are in similar positions. Would be it be cheaper for MCPS to pay for a private VA for them or for MCPS to have its own?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

There have been the same discussions over and over again with the bullies demanding answers to silly questions and no matter what you say it’s not good enough. Why are you so invested in shutting the school down?

And not everything is simply about Covid. Time for you to move on. Maybe if you spent half as much time helping your kids as you do posting on social media your kids would have been more successful in school.

I don’t think it’s silly to ask what the families for whom going into a school is a life or death decision did before MCPS created the virtual academy a few years ago. It would help inform the discussion since proponents of the VA seem to be arguing that the choice is continuing to find the VA or depriving their kids of an education.

With the caveat that I'm talking about one specific kid, a relative of mine who is not my own child, I'll tell you what their parents did. Since their condition is pretty rare, I'm going to be somewhat vague while trying to answer your question. My nibling had a major organ transplant as an early elementary schooler. While awaiting the transplant, they received some limited at-home services supplemented by parent teaching. After the transplant, they were still extremely vulnerable. Terrifyingly so, but their parents also wanted them to have as close to a normal childhood as possible, particularly because there was a chance they could end up needing another organ down the road.

Basically, a bad thing could happen no matter how careful the parents were, so it was more worth it to make sure my nibling felt like a normal kid than to make sure they were 100% safe.

The schools were, as far as I could tell, great. In the rest of elementary school, my nibling would be paired with a teacher willing to use upgraded disinfecting in the classroom, and their parents would send a stock email to all of the other parents in the class describing the situation and asking for enhanced attention to sending their kids in with "just a cold." The parents also made masks available (this was pre-covid, so it was unusual but no one felt their rights were being violated.)

Middle school was harder, particularly because covid happened in this period, but my nibling returned to school in fall 2021, so just a touch after the rest of their grade.

My nibling is in HS now, and still going to school in person. My sibling is greatful that their kid is generally compliant with the drug protocol and takes care of their own health, as a lot of transplant kids spin out around this age because they are so frustrated at the limitations.

End of the day, it's not perfect, but it works becuase my sibling was willing to take a chance on the adults and the kids in their community being fundamentally okay people who wanted to do the right thing.

So basically, even with this very serious condition, the child and parents in question decided for in-person school over the VA. Which means that even for the most vulnerable children, VA is not the only or even the best option for those kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

There have been the same discussions over and over again with the bullies demanding answers to silly questions and no matter what you say it’s not good enough. Why are you so invested in shutting the school down?

And not everything is simply about Covid. Time for you to move on. Maybe if you spent half as much time helping your kids as you do posting on social media your kids would have been more successful in school.

I don’t think it’s silly to ask what the families for whom going into a school is a life or death decision did before MCPS created the virtual academy a few years ago. It would help inform the discussion since proponents of the VA seem to be arguing that the choice is continuing to find the VA or depriving their kids of an education.

With the caveat that I'm talking about one specific kid, a relative of mine who is not my own child, I'll tell you what their parents did. Since their condition is pretty rare, I'm going to be somewhat vague while trying to answer your question. My nibling had a major organ transplant as an early elementary schooler. While awaiting the transplant, they received some limited at-home services supplemented by parent teaching. After the transplant, they were still extremely vulnerable. Terrifyingly so, but their parents also wanted them to have as close to a normal childhood as possible, particularly because there was a chance they could end up needing another organ down the road.

Basically, a bad thing could happen no matter how careful the parents were, so it was more worth it to make sure my nibling felt like a normal kid than to make sure they were 100% safe.

The schools were, as far as I could tell, great. In the rest of elementary school, my nibling would be paired with a teacher willing to use upgraded disinfecting in the classroom, and their parents would send a stock email to all of the other parents in the class describing the situation and asking for enhanced attention to sending their kids in with "just a cold." The parents also made masks available (this was pre-covid, so it was unusual but no one felt their rights were being violated.)

Middle school was harder, particularly because covid happened in this period, but my nibling returned to school in fall 2021, so just a touch after the rest of their grade.

My nibling is in HS now, and still going to school in person. My sibling is greatful that their kid is generally compliant with the drug protocol and takes care of their own health, as a lot of transplant kids spin out around this age because they are so frustrated at the limitations.

End of the day, it's not perfect, but it works becuase my sibling was willing to take a chance on the adults and the kids in their community being fundamentally okay people who wanted to do the right thing.

Great post. I wonder how many kids are in similar positions. Would be it be cheaper for MCPS to pay for a private VA for them or for MCPS to have its own?

My guess is neither. It’s probably most cost effective for MCPS to go back to whatever it was doing for decades before they started the virtual academy experiment a few years ago.

[Anonymous]

Virtual academy has run its course.
There are some relatively cheap online school options that parents can pay for if they absolutely refuse to send their child to in-person school. In HS it is not needed because students can use virtual MC classes.
Virtual education for elementary and middle school students is mostly a terrible idea anyway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Virtual academy has run its course.
There are some relatively cheap online school options that parents can pay for if they absolutely refuse to send their child to in-person school. In HS it is not needed because students can use virtual MC classes.
Virtual education for elementary and middle school students is mostly a terrible idea anyway

Ok Karen. Let us know. Because the state of Maryland doesn’t have an approved one.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

There have been the same discussions over and over again with the bullies demanding answers to silly questions and no matter what you say it’s not good enough. Why are you so invested in shutting the school down?

And not everything is simply about Covid. Time for you to move on. Maybe if you spent half as much time helping your kids as you do posting on social media your kids would have been more successful in school.

I don’t think it’s silly to ask what the families for whom going into a school is a life or death decision did before MCPS created the virtual academy a few years ago. It would help inform the discussion since proponents of the VA seem to be arguing that the choice is continuing to find the VA or depriving their kids of an education.

With the caveat that I'm talking about one specific kid, a relative of mine who is not my own child, I'll tell you what their parents did. Since their condition is pretty rare, I'm going to be somewhat vague while trying to answer your question. My nibling had a major organ transplant as an early elementary schooler. While awaiting the transplant, they received some limited at-home services supplemented by parent teaching. After the transplant, they were still extremely vulnerable. Terrifyingly so, but their parents also wanted them to have as close to a normal childhood as possible, particularly because there was a chance they could end up needing another organ down the road.

Basically, a bad thing could happen no matter how careful the parents were, so it was more worth it to make sure my nibling felt like a normal kid than to make sure they were 100% safe.

The schools were, as far as I could tell, great. In the rest of elementary school, my nibling would be paired with a teacher willing to use upgraded disinfecting in the classroom, and their parents would send a stock email to all of the other parents in the class describing the situation and asking for enhanced attention to sending their kids in with "just a cold." The parents also made masks available (this was pre-covid, so it was unusual but no one felt their rights were being violated.)

Middle school was harder, particularly because covid happened in this period, but my nibling returned to school in fall 2021, so just a touch after the rest of their grade.

My nibling is in HS now, and still going to school in person. My sibling is greatful that their kid is generally compliant with the drug protocol and takes care of their own health, as a lot of transplant kids spin out around this age because they are so frustrated at the limitations.

End of the day, it's not perfect, but it works becuase my sibling was willing to take a chance on the adults and the kids in their community being fundamentally okay people who wanted to do the right thing.

So basically, even with this very serious condition, the child and parents in question decided for in-person school over the VA. Which means that even for the most vulnerable children, VA is not the only or even the best option for those kids.

Here’s your answer folks. It worked for one so it works for all. 🙄

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

There have been the same discussions over and over again with the bullies demanding answers to silly questions and no matter what you say it’s not good enough. Why are you so invested in shutting the school down?

And not everything is simply about Covid. Time for you to move on. Maybe if you spent half as much time helping your kids as you do posting on social media your kids would have been more successful in school.

I don’t think it’s silly to ask what the families for whom going into a school is a life or death decision did before MCPS created the virtual academy a few years ago. It would help inform the discussion since proponents of the VA seem to be arguing that the choice is continuing to find the VA or depriving their kids of an education.

With the caveat that I'm talking about one specific kid, a relative of mine who is not my own child, I'll tell you what their parents did. Since their condition is pretty rare, I'm going to be somewhat vague while trying to answer your question. My nibling had a major organ transplant as an early elementary schooler. While awaiting the transplant, they received some limited at-home services supplemented by parent teaching. After the transplant, they were still extremely vulnerable. Terrifyingly so, but their parents also wanted them to have as close to a normal childhood as possible, particularly because there was a chance they could end up needing another organ down the road.

Basically, a bad thing could happen no matter how careful the parents were, so it was more worth it to make sure my nibling felt like a normal kid than to make sure they were 100% safe.

The schools were, as far as I could tell, great. In the rest of elementary school, my nibling would be paired with a teacher willing to use upgraded disinfecting in the classroom, and their parents would send a stock email to all of the other parents in the class describing the situation and asking for enhanced attention to sending their kids in with "just a cold." The parents also made masks available (this was pre-covid, so it was unusual but no one felt their rights were being violated.)

Middle school was harder, particularly because covid happened in this period, but my nibling returned to school in fall 2021, so just a touch after the rest of their grade.

My nibling is in HS now, and still going to school in person. My sibling is greatful that their kid is generally compliant with the drug protocol and takes care of their own health, as a lot of transplant kids spin out around this age because they are so frustrated at the limitations.

End of the day, it's not perfect, but it works becuase my sibling was willing to take a chance on the adults and the kids in their community being fundamentally okay people who wanted to do the right thing.

So basically, even with this very serious condition, the child and parents in question decided for in-person school over the VA. Which means that even for the most vulnerable children, VA is not the only or even the best option for those kids.

Here’s your answer folks. It worked for one so it works for all. 🙄

Kind of an ironic post for you don’t you think, Mr. “The VA is best for my kid so everyone should have to pay for it”?

Also, still waiting on why we can’t go back to what MCPS did for decades and decades before they started the virtual academy a couple years ago in response to COVID