One by one, the lockdown myths are crumbling

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:i think lockdown measures worked. who knows what would've happened if we didn't lockdown? why this sh*t again OP? got nothing to do?

Um, the article I linked was published within the last day. 13 hours ago.

You didn’t read it, did you.

dp. i read it. columnist erected a straw man.

Lockdowns were never about preventing COVID or eliminating it. The stated purpose was to slow down its spread. To that end, they were highly effective.

I don’t understand why this concept is so hard for people to grasp. As a hospital nurse who was working when the SHTF, it’s surreal how people downplay COVID. It was like nothing else we had seen—so many people dying left and right. So many people sick. It’s like having lived in a different reality than so many people
like the PP.

what you need to understand is that most of the covid “mitigations” were not based on “the science” and in fact had a lot of costs. I can simultaneously agree that covid was serious pre-vaccine and that a lot of the prevention measures were unnecessary and harmful. and of course many other places didn’t do them.

It was an emerging virus. There wasn’t much science!

Which is exactly why hookah bars reopened in May 2021 in DC while schools stayed closed. No way to guess why this would be!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Shutting schools down for an extended period was definitely harmful especially for younger kids for whom remote learning was a joke. In many states it was the teachers unions who did a real disservice. An early on shut down was understandable given the level of fear but soon it became know that the risk to children was much lower than adults. Yes, the teachers were adults but masks etc proved to be effective.

school was a super spreader site. these policies was never about protecting children from getting the disease and the notion that it was is some kind of weird revisionist history.

Also, the children are fine.

Test scores and juvenile crime rates suggest that the children are not fine.

Yeah but if those are the metrics you go by, the children never have been fine.

Covid made those numbers much worse. Come on.

+1, it is so weird to me to hear progressives, including educators, refuse to acknowledge the link between school shut downs and the issues we are now seeing with learning loss, juvenile crime, and behavioral issues in school. Of course school shutdowns didn't create these problems, but especially in places (like DC) where shutdowns lasted for over a year, it's obvious they had a significant negative impact.

It's weird to me because as a progressive, I have long viewed public education as an essential service provided by government. When people argue that shutdowns had no impact, I get confused because how can removing an essential government service have no impact? This is like saying you really value Medicare as a government program but also if they just denied all claims for a year, it would have no impact on the well being of elderly people in this country. What?

And don't tell me "there was school, just the buildings were closed." That's only true for kids who had the kind of supports at home to make remote learning possible. Meaning it's not true for poor kids, kids with single parents, kids with certain learning disorders and special needs, homeless kids, etc. You know, the kids that usually progressives work hard to help and protect.

I'm not saying schools should never have shut down for any length of time. I think closing them was the obvious choice initially and there was an argument for keeping them closed for a certain length of time (not as long as they were closed in DC). But that's different from acknowledging that the shutdowns had a negative impact on kids. At a minimum it should be possible to say "I think shut downs were necessary to save lives but now we need to do everything in our power to address the negative impacts." Instead a lot of progressives will argue there simply were no negative impacts. It's baffling. It makes me feel like Alice at the Madhatter's Tea Party.

These things were happening before Covid. You just choose to ignore then. School was not closed. It was virtual.

You are delusional. Absolutely delusional. It must be because you need to be delusional in order to live with yourself.

What is wrong with you? Were you just blind to what was going on due to your charmed life?

I’m not the one pretending that millions of kids across the US, overwhelmingly the most vulnerable already, weren’t permanently harmed by useless school closures. What is wrong with you and your need to deny reality? Why do you despise the most vulnerable kids in the country?

Parents were supposed to parent and teach their kids resiliency. Life isn’t always perfect. Kids should have learned how to cope. But clearly there are many parents out there who cannot cope, cannot adjust to the situation, and just crumble at the slightest effort to parent. Some parents clearly couldn’t assess their risk appetite and make decisions to provide their kids with what they need. I think there are some fragile people who shouldn’t have had kids if they can’t provide what their kids need emotionally.

you are an unbearable b.

Truth hurts, huh?

the fact is, the places that actually modeled “resilience” reopened schools quickly or never closed them. it’s beyond ironic that you’re trying to argue with a straight face that doing things like masking 2 year olds somehow showed “resilience.”

Yes, 2 year old must learn to cope with disappointment. This is why the toddler years are tough. Where I live schools didn’t reopen. So I had to step up and parent… which is what I signed up for when I had my kids. God, the whining here is unreal.

Quit whining about whining. You are going to have to cope now that we aren’t going back to masks or ineffective measures that didn’t work and just made the health anxiety freaks like you feel better temporarily.

+1

What’s crazy is that the PP apparently believes she is a good parent when all her posts clearly indicate otherwise. Can you imagine the state of the poor kids locked up 24/7 with someone like this? Nightmare scenario.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shutting schools down for an extended period was definitely harmful especially for younger kids for whom remote learning was a joke. In many states it was the teachers unions who did a real disservice. An early on shut down was understandable given the level of fear but soon it became know that the risk to children was much lower than adults. Yes, the teachers were adults but masks etc proved to be effective.

school was a super spreader site. these policies was never about protecting children from getting the disease and the notion that it was is some kind of weird revisionist history.

Also, the children are fine.

Test scores and juvenile crime rates suggest that the children are not fine.

Yeah but if those are the metrics you go by, the children never have been fine.

Covid made those numbers much worse. Come on.

+1, it is so weird to me to hear progressives, including educators, refuse to acknowledge the link between school shut downs and the issues we are now seeing with learning loss, juvenile crime, and behavioral issues in school. Of course school shutdowns didn't create these problems, but especially in places (like DC) where shutdowns lasted for over a year, it's obvious they had a significant negative impact.

It's weird to me because as a progressive, I have long viewed public education as an essential service provided by government. When people argue that shutdowns had no impact, I get confused because how can removing an essential government service have no impact? This is like saying you really value Medicare as a government program but also if they just denied all claims for a year, it would have no impact on the well being of elderly people in this country. What?

And don't tell me "there was school, just the buildings were closed." That's only true for kids who had the kind of supports at home to make remote learning possible. Meaning it's not true for poor kids, kids with single parents, kids with certain learning disorders and special needs, homeless kids, etc. You know, the kids that usually progressives work hard to help and protect.

I'm not saying schools should never have shut down for any length of time. I think closing them was the obvious choice initially and there was an argument for keeping them closed for a certain length of time (not as long as they were closed in DC). But that's different from acknowledging that the shutdowns had a negative impact on kids. At a minimum it should be possible to say "I think shut downs were necessary to save lives but now we need to do everything in our power to address the negative impacts." Instead a lot of progressives will argue there simply were no negative impacts. It's baffling. It makes me feel like Alice at the Madhatter's Tea Party.

These things were happening before Covid. You just choose to ignore then. School was not closed. It was virtual.

You are delusional. Absolutely delusional. It must be because you need to be delusional in order to live with yourself.

What is wrong with you? Were you just blind to what was going on due to your charmed life?

I’m not the one pretending that millions of kids across the US, overwhelmingly the most vulnerable already, weren’t permanently harmed by useless school closures. What is wrong with you and your need to deny reality? Why do you despise the most vulnerable kids in the country?

Kids were not harmed. Parents attitudes were the problem and parents who could not handle or be responsible for their kids. Stop throwing vulnerable kids under the bus when they did fine. It was people like you who struggled as you never really spent much real time with your kids and now you were forced to and forced to see what was really going on.

Okay you are just trolling at this point. Or completely and totally crazy. Maybe both. But thanks for showing everyone how profoundly delusional and literally insane you are.

You need some serious therapy. Then maybe you can face facts, including the many, many piles of studies showing how vulnerable children were permanently harmed by the school closures. But really, you need an excellent therapist. Best of luck to you in your very-needed journey to a better mental place.

You are the one who needs therapy and is trolling. You are obsessed with the schools going virtual and using others as talking points when you are the one who struggled with it all. Kids aren't struggling because of covid. Kids are struggling due to their genetics/mental health, parenting, and the structure of schools today. How many "needed children have you worked with or helped'? I doubt any. I have worked with many.

I don't know how you can say this with a straight face. I work with kids, kids from Title I schools who have many obstacles in their way from the start and who rely on the supports provided by schools and before/after school programs to help them access intensive services they need to overcome their obstacles whether learning disability, mental health issues, etc. The worst off kids are doing much worse than they would have been if they'd not missed 1.5 years of in person instruction and access to supports.

Also some kids died in abusive situations during covid because nobody could access them to see the signs and makes the reports to CPS. Those kids are definitely not okay.

I don't see how we can have an honest conversation about the pandemic's impact on children without starting from a shared acknowledgment that the school closures impacted all kids negatively, with that negativity being on a spectrum depending on the supports they had at home.

The PP you are responding to doesn’t care about kids in Title 1 schools or in abusive homes. She cares only about extorting absolute and full control over her own children so they couldn’t so much as turn their head away from the screen without her permission. The loss of that control is what is making her lash out in such obviously false ways. Anyone who actually works or has even stepped foot into a Title 1 school knows you are of course telling the truth.

[Anonymous]

Again, hindsight is 20/20 on this. It took about two months to figure out the severity of COVID, who was most vulnerable, etc.

Remember even if it "only affected the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions", that's around 30-40% of the U.S. population. Folks with diabetes, asthma, pulmonary or heart conditions had much high rates of severe cases and death rates. A huge portion of the American population was at-risk.

With perfect foreknowledge, we should have done something similar to France:
1. Keep kids in schools, except when there is a severe localized surge in illness. France would keep kids in schools until the situation became untenable. And even then, the kids would only be home for 10-14 days and go right back to school.

2. In order to keep kids in schools, you need teachers. Offer older and sick teachers early retirement, offer big hazard pay bonuses to existing and new teachers who teach in-person through the pandemic.

3. Unless you're a front line worker, you stay home during a localized surge. Break the lockdown? Get arrested and fined. France was strict about this because it helped ensure schools stayed open and the hospitals did not get over-crowded. You can't have functioning schools or hospital if the teachers and nurse/doctors are sick.

4. Allow outdoor activities - exercise, parks, religious services, food and beverage consumption, socially distanced concerts, etc. People need recreation and socialization. That can be done relatively safely outdoors without too much spread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This article from the UK seems to acknowledge what many of us have come to realize: many of the protocols imposed in response to Covid were simply wrong:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/31/one-by-one-the-lockdown-myths-are-crumbling/

What Covid measure do you feel was the most harmful to society, and are we doomed to repeat it next time?

Would you rather we had more deaths and been less cautious? Or more cautious and less deaths?

The one thing I did find silly was the closing of the playgrounds and wrapping them up. That seemed overkill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shutting schools down for an extended period was definitely harmful especially for younger kids for whom remote learning was a joke. In many states it was the teachers unions who did a real disservice. An early on shut down was understandable given the level of fear but soon it became know that the risk to children was much lower than adults. Yes, the teachers were adults but masks etc proved to be effective.

school was a super spreader site. these policies was never about protecting children from getting the disease and the notion that it was is some kind of weird revisionist history.

Also, the children are fine.

Test scores and juvenile crime rates suggest that the children are not fine.

Yeah but if those are the metrics you go by, the children never have been fine.

Covid made those numbers much worse. Come on.

+1, it is so weird to me to hear progressives, including educators, refuse to acknowledge the link between school shut downs and the issues we are now seeing with learning loss, juvenile crime, and behavioral issues in school. Of course school shutdowns didn't create these problems, but especially in places (like DC) where shutdowns lasted for over a year, it's obvious they had a significant negative impact.

It's weird to me because as a progressive, I have long viewed public education as an essential service provided by government. When people argue that shutdowns had no impact, I get confused because how can removing an essential government service have no impact? This is like saying you really value Medicare as a government program but also if they just denied all claims for a year, it would have no impact on the well being of elderly people in this country. What?

And don't tell me "there was school, just the buildings were closed." That's only true for kids who had the kind of supports at home to make remote learning possible. Meaning it's not true for poor kids, kids with single parents, kids with certain learning disorders and special needs, homeless kids, etc. You know, the kids that usually progressives work hard to help and protect.

I'm not saying schools should never have shut down for any length of time. I think closing them was the obvious choice initially and there was an argument for keeping them closed for a certain length of time (not as long as they were closed in DC). But that's different from acknowledging that the shutdowns had a negative impact on kids. At a minimum it should be possible to say "I think shut downs were necessary to save lives but now we need to do everything in our power to address the negative impacts." Instead a lot of progressives will argue there simply were no negative impacts. It's baffling. It makes me feel like Alice at the Madhatter's Tea Party.

These things were happening before Covid. You just choose to ignore then. School was not closed. It was virtual.

You are delusional. Absolutely delusional. It must be because you need to be delusional in order to live with yourself.

What is wrong with you? Were you just blind to what was going on due to your charmed life?

I’m not the one pretending that millions of kids across the US, overwhelmingly the most vulnerable already, weren’t permanently harmed by useless school closures. What is wrong with you and your need to deny reality? Why do you despise the most vulnerable kids in the country?

Kids were not harmed. Parents attitudes were the problem and parents who could not handle or be responsible for their kids. Stop throwing vulnerable kids under the bus when they did fine. It was people like you who struggled as you never really spent much real time with your kids and now you were forced to and forced to see what was really going on.

Okay you are just trolling at this point. Or completely and totally crazy. Maybe both. But thanks for showing everyone how profoundly delusional and literally insane you are.

You need some serious therapy. Then maybe you can face facts, including the many, many piles of studies showing how vulnerable children were permanently harmed by the school closures. But really, you need an excellent therapist. Best of luck to you in your very-needed journey to a better mental place.

You are the one who needs therapy and is trolling. You are obsessed with the schools going virtual and using others as talking points when you are the one who struggled with it all. Kids aren't struggling because of covid. Kids are struggling due to their genetics/mental health, parenting, and the structure of schools today. How many "needed children have you worked with or helped'? I doubt any. I have worked with many.

I don't know how you can say this with a straight face. I work with kids, kids from Title I schools who have many obstacles in their way from the start and who rely on the supports provided by schools and before/after school programs to help them access intensive services they need to overcome their obstacles whether learning disability, mental health issues, etc. The worst off kids are doing much worse than they would have been if they'd not missed 1.5 years of in person instruction and access to supports.

Also some kids died in abusive situations during covid because nobody could access them to see the signs and makes the reports to CPS. Those kids are definitely not okay.

I don't see how we can have an honest conversation about the pandemic's impact on children without starting from a shared acknowledgment that the school closures impacted all kids negatively, with that negativity being on a spectrum depending on the supports they had at home.

This is why they are trying to shut down the conversation. They can't face the horror of the damage they inflicted on others.

I write this not to disagree that there were negative outcomes of the pandemic on children, but to point a finger at your useless response and those of people like you on here raging into the wind. Who are "they". You think anonymous posters on here harmed your kids?

Honestly, you need to talk to someone and deal with your irrational anger. Then channel that passion into some forward-thinking and advocacy for the kids who need help.

Your impotent raging on these threads is useless and annoying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shutting schools down for an extended period was definitely harmful especially for younger kids for whom remote learning was a joke. In many states it was the teachers unions who did a real disservice. An early on shut down was understandable given the level of fear but soon it became know that the risk to children was much lower than adults. Yes, the teachers were adults but masks etc proved to be effective.

school was a super spreader site. these policies was never about protecting children from getting the disease and the notion that it was is some kind of weird revisionist history.

Also, the children are fine.

Test scores and juvenile crime rates suggest that the children are not fine.

Yeah but if those are the metrics you go by, the children never have been fine.

Covid made those numbers much worse. Come on.

+1, it is so weird to me to hear progressives, including educators, refuse to acknowledge the link between school shut downs and the issues we are now seeing with learning loss, juvenile crime, and behavioral issues in school. Of course school shutdowns didn't create these problems, but especially in places (like DC) where shutdowns lasted for over a year, it's obvious they had a significant negative impact.

It's weird to me because as a progressive, I have long viewed public education as an essential service provided by government. When people argue that shutdowns had no impact, I get confused because how can removing an essential government service have no impact? This is like saying you really value Medicare as a government program but also if they just denied all claims for a year, it would have no impact on the well being of elderly people in this country. What?

And don't tell me "there was school, just the buildings were closed." That's only true for kids who had the kind of supports at home to make remote learning possible. Meaning it's not true for poor kids, kids with single parents, kids with certain learning disorders and special needs, homeless kids, etc. You know, the kids that usually progressives work hard to help and protect.

I'm not saying schools should never have shut down for any length of time. I think closing them was the obvious choice initially and there was an argument for keeping them closed for a certain length of time (not as long as they were closed in DC). But that's different from acknowledging that the shutdowns had a negative impact on kids. At a minimum it should be possible to say "I think shut downs were necessary to save lives but now we need to do everything in our power to address the negative impacts." Instead a lot of progressives will argue there simply were no negative impacts. It's baffling. It makes me feel like Alice at the Madhatter's Tea Party.

These things were happening before Covid. You just choose to ignore then. School was not closed. It was virtual.

You are delusional. Absolutely delusional. It must be because you need to be delusional in order to live with yourself.

What is wrong with you? Were you just blind to what was going on due to your charmed life?

I’m not the one pretending that millions of kids across the US, overwhelmingly the most vulnerable already, weren’t permanently harmed by useless school closures. What is wrong with you and your need to deny reality? Why do you despise the most vulnerable kids in the country?

Kids were not harmed. Parents attitudes were the problem and parents who could not handle or be responsible for their kids. Stop throwing vulnerable kids under the bus when they did fine. It was people like you who struggled as you never really spent much real time with your kids and now you were forced to and forced to see what was really going on.

Okay you are just trolling at this point. Or completely and totally crazy. Maybe both. But thanks for showing everyone how profoundly delusional and literally insane you are.

You need some serious therapy. Then maybe you can face facts, including the many, many piles of studies showing how vulnerable children were permanently harmed by the school closures. But really, you need an excellent therapist. Best of luck to you in your very-needed journey to a better mental place.

You are the one who needs therapy and is trolling. You are obsessed with the schools going virtual and using others as talking points when you are the one who struggled with it all. Kids aren't struggling because of covid. Kids are struggling due to their genetics/mental health, parenting, and the structure of schools today. How many "needed children have you worked with or helped'? I doubt any. I have worked with many.

I don't know how you can say this with a straight face. I work with kids, kids from Title I schools who have many obstacles in their way from the start and who rely on the supports provided by schools and before/after school programs to help them access intensive services they need to overcome their obstacles whether learning disability, mental health issues, etc. The worst off kids are doing much worse than they would have been if they'd not missed 1.5 years of in person instruction and access to supports.

Also some kids died in abusive situations during covid because nobody could access them to see the signs and makes the reports to CPS. Those kids are definitely not okay.

I don't see how we can have an honest conversation about the pandemic's impact on children without starting from a shared acknowledgment that the school closures impacted all kids negatively, with that negativity being on a spectrum depending on the supports they had at home.

This is why they are trying to shut down the conversation. They can't face the horror of the damage they inflicted on others.

I write this not to disagree that there were negative outcomes of the pandemic on children, but to point a finger at your useless response and those of people like you on here raging into the wind. Who are "they". You think anonymous posters on here harmed your kids?

Honestly, you need to talk to someone and deal with your irrational anger. Then channel that passion into some forward-thinking and advocacy for the kids who need help.

Your impotent raging on these threads is useless and annoying.

DP: Its important that keep reminding people of the harm the Covid enthusiasts caused. In large part because they refused to learn any lessons from their harmful advocacy. Its also now apparent that these same people keep making incredibly harmful decisions on other fronts, like crime.

Its all about being ready for the next crisis, and being ready to shutdown people with such horrid track records. You should not put people with a propensity to panic in charge of anything.