Anger

[Anonymous]

The question of why there has been so much anger and vitriol since McCain chose Palin has come up in many threads, so here is a thread to do a bit of self-analysis. I'll start by trying to give an honest appraisal of some of the things I think are behind my own intermittent anger. Please note that since I'm speaking of my emotions, I'm describing my perceptions, so arguing whether my perceptions were correct is off-point. BTW, there was also a lot of Clinton/Obama anger once upon a time, so Palin is not unique.

The first thing that set me off was that after what I considered over-the-top attacks on Obama for lack of experience, McCain chose what appeared to be the least experienced person he could find as VP.

The next thing that comes to mind was the way that Palin became the mouthpiece for a really sneering attack on Obama. That she was so artful in delivering it (in my opinion) probably made it even more irksome. [Note -- if a snide remark is a snark, is a sneering attack a snack?]

Mixed up with all this is the presence of Steve Schmidt orchestrating all this, a constant reminder of eight years of Bush/Rove.

I'll leave it at those three for now, to see if anyone else is interested in following this line. It's not directly political, but is so tied up with our discussions here that I thought it worth initiating as a way of illuminating, and perhaps defusing, the painful anger that has arisen. So, with my fingers crossed that I'm not planting the seeds of more battles, I'll give this a try.

[Anonymous]

I don't think that you can ignore the fact that the Big Green Monster is playing a role in some of this anger, particularly for women. She's good looking, inexperienced, and leaps to the front of the pack, in front of people who have worked much harder for much longer for a prize like this. Can't we all tell a story about a similar situation in our own lives that still makes us mad?

Think how HRC must really feel.

[Anonymous]

I actually was very surprised by the anger in my more liberal friends. I mean, they felt that Barack Obama was the Second Coming and unstoppable, etc. So, I really figured that they wouldn't care who McCain picked as a running mate.

But WOW, it's crazy - this anger. So he picked a fresh conservative face. Big Deal. The issues are still the issues, and I'm still undecided. I need to hear more from both parties (of substance, not pig cosmetics), before I make up my mind.

It's times like this that I REALLY MISS TIM RUSSERT.

[Anonymous]

I think you hit the nail on the head and the more the McCain/Palin camp act like being a woman means you can't question one single thing about her experience, the more angry I get as a woman. The fact that the vetting in process is being done hastily in the media is because McCain chose someone that NO ONE but the 600,000 or so Alaskans know. What angers me is that her being a woman is being used as a weapon and I think it's horrendous. McCain can use the phrase "lipstick on a pig is a pig" and they have him on tape doing so but when Obama uses the SAME EXACT PHRASE, he's sexist because he means Palin. He didn't say lipstick on a pitbull or a hockey mom. Guess any sayings even remotely referring to something feminine in the mainstream English language are now off limits to Obama because they might be sexist??? That is the biggest load of horse poop I've ever heard. I think women should be treated just like men and if you come out as the antagonist for your party/ticket then don't go hiding behind your skirt when the heat is turned on you.

To the PP, I don't think women would be so supportive of her (at least according to the polls) if the Big Green Monster were so much at play. Yes, there are certainly Republican women with WAY more experience that could have been chosen (Kay Bailey, Olympia Snowe for Senate examples) and I would think some of them might be envious. But I actually doubt that Hillary is. Think about it, the more people compare them the better she looks. Palin may not wear pantsuits but I think most people would prefer Hillary talking to a foreign leader about policy that Palin.

[Anonymous]

Another personal perspective from a moderate/undecided-till-Palin:

1) I've spent my whole life being told what to think and how to behave by religious activists waving their holy books in my face (by Christians in my native US South, by Muslims in Southeast Asia...the experience is about the same)

2) I've lived thru 8 years of Bush/Cheney arrogance and cock-sure recklessness

Palin, both in tone and in content, sure sounds to me like more of the same.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Just to emphasize my intent, which you of course do not need to follow. I was hoping we could enlighten each other and foster understanding, rather than rehash the arguments.

As one who delved into Palin's private life, I now realize that I contributed to nastiness I did not intend. I thought perhaps if we all commented on what set us off, we could avoid throwing so many matches into the future's dry leaves.

[Anonymous]

My contempt for Palin as a person and her policies remain separate and apart from what I am about to confess (i.e., the two are not mutually exclusive):

Yes, she does make me angry. Because time and time again, I've seen women who were less qualified, but conventionally prettier than me get promoted over and over and over again. Especially if they flirt with the men in charge in just the right way. If Sarah Palin were average looking and average weight, I don't think McCain would have even chosen her. You certainly wouldn't be seeing this reaction.

Why shouldn't I be angry? In college and grad school, when your exam was graded anonymously, I was always at the top. Then I enter the workplace and women from third-tiered schools with bad grammar, pretty faces, good clothes and yes, lipstick, walk right aheard of me.

And yet? When it comes to actual doing of the work, everyone knows I'm better at it than any of these women.

And BTW, I say this not as an unattractive woman. Just someone less attractive that Sarah Palin.

[Anonymous]

Average woman victimized by the existence of more attractive women. Interesting.

I am not angry - in fact I am one of the folks simply amazed by it. Would love to understand it - OP thanks for starting the thread.

[Anonymous]

Actually, when the vote came in (at some point in my 30s) it was actually that I am an attractive woman. Better than average. But not beautiful. Thanks for the insult though!

[Anonymous]

I formed my opinion of Sarah Palin during her speech at the RNC. She could have made an impression on me by showing some depth and intelligence. Through her constant attacks on Obama and sneering about his community organizer experience, I saw her as just another petty "pretty" face, though I don't think she's all that attractive and her whiny, nasally voice. Maybe by DC and political standards she is considered attractive. Anyone ever hear that politicians and actors are the same? The good-looking ones go to Hollywood and the ugly ones come to DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Average woman victimized by the existence of more attractive women. Interesting.

I am not angry - in fact I am one of the folks simply amazed by it. Would love to understand it - OP thanks for starting the thread.

I think a lot of what's going on is that women are chronically prone to compare themselves to one another. They look at Sarah Palin and detest what is different, or for some on this site, what they think is inferior about her. They cannot for the life of them understand that other people could possibly like that woman who is so different from them. They're upset because she does not have any Ivy League degree, yet she has made her way to the national political stage. They're upset that her small town girl image is appealing to so many when they have worked so hard to be citified. They're upset because they think being a strong woman means being like them, and a lot of people are looking at Sarah Palin and seeing a different kind of strong woman. And they do like her -- 56% of the people like her, and 41% very much so, accdg to today's Rasmussen poll. And some women simply cannot stand that.

As far as the looks thing, it's really unfair to suggest she's been catapulted by her looks alone. It is, nevertheless, a sad but true fact that television has changed the credentials requisite for political office. It has often been said that many presidents who were elected before the advent of television could not be viable candidates today. It's true for men and women alike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I formed my opinion of Sarah Palin during her speech at the RNC. She could have made an impression on me by showing some depth and intelligence. Through her constant attacks on Obama and sneering about his community organizer experience, I saw her as just another petty "pretty" face, though I don't think she's all that attractive and her whiny, nasally voice. Maybe by DC and political standards she is considered attractive. Anyone ever hear that politicians and actors are the same? The good-looking ones go to Hollywood and the ugly ones come to DC.

Lovely. You pick apart her looks and voice and take issue with whether she's really attractive. With women like you, who needs men to keep sexism alive.

As far as content, I'd rather listen to her witty jabs over Biden's rambling, incoherent and self-indulgent rants any day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Average woman victimized by the existence of more attractive women. Interesting.

I am not angry - in fact I am one of the folks simply amazed by it. Would love to understand it - OP thanks for starting the thread.

I think a lot of what's going on is that women are chronically prone to compare themselves to one another. They look at Sarah Palin and detest what is different, or for some on this site, what they think is inferior about her. They cannot for the life of them understand that other people could possibly like that woman who is so different from them. They're upset because she does not have any Ivy League degree, yet she has made her way to the national political stage. They're upset that her small town girl image is appealing to so many when they have worked so hard to be citified. They're upset because they think being a strong woman means being like them, and a lot of people are looking at Sarah Palin and seeing a different kind of strong woman. And they do like her -- 56% of the people like her, and 41% very much so, accdg to today's Rasmussen poll. And some women simply cannot stand that.

As far as the looks thing, it's really unfair to suggest she's been catapulted by her looks alone. It is, nevertheless, a sad but true fact that television has changed the credentials requisite for political office. It has often been said that many presidents who were elected before the advent of television could not be viable candidates today. It's true for men and women alike.

Well said! In my opinion, I think a lot of the anger comes from people suddenly feeling scared that Obama might not win. It seemed like a few weeks ago, he was unstoppable and all signs were pointing to him winning. Fast forward to the Palin pick and suddenly many more people seem to be leaning McCain's way - maybe because of Palin, maybe not. But the fact is, in many polls McCain is up and I think a lot of the anger and name calling on this site can be attributed to fear and nervousness that Obama might not do it. I feel like people think if they keep bringing up all the bad things about Palin and try to make her look stupid or ignorant, maybe people will not vote for McCain. However for me (an undecided voter), all it does is turn me off and leave me with a sick feeling in my stomach because I just don't like the name calling and unwillingness by many on this board to even consider a thought or belief that is different from their own.

[Anonymous]

Wow. I don't think her looks should have anything to do with it but comments on her looks doesn't mean it's sexism. We talk about whether men running for office are attractive ALL OF THE TIME. One of the Hill Newspapers just ranked the Senate and House Babes and Hotties and across the board the "attractive" quotient is out there regardless of sex. Once again, say anything about her -- looks, brains, experience and you are sexist. We don't know much about her except for what's been presented on TV so if the comments are about the exterior then maybe that's a clue that McCain's people need to actually let her talk about issues.

[Anonymous]

There is also a countervailing tendency not to take a good-looking woman seriously, hence the frumpy hairdo and glasses.

Luck and looks may play a part in Palin being where she is, but it takes an extraordinary human being to dominate the news as she has. This from an Obamaphile.