Anger

[Anonymous]

As a former community organizer, from Chicago no less, who made dirt then and still makes dirt compared to a lot of folks in DC and on this board because I have spent my entire working life in the non-profit sector trying to make the world a better place and trying to fix messes that folks in positions of inherent power leave behind, the arrogant dismissal of community organizing absolutely. Made. My. Blood. Boil.

How arrogant. How priviledged. How repulsive.


So that's been the root of a lot of my recent anger. And lots of folks get what organizing is. Unfortunately, their voices are too often buried.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As far as the looks thing, it's really unfair to suggest she's been catapulted by her looks alone. It is, nevertheless, a sad but true fact that television has changed the credentials requisite for political office. It has often been said that many presidents who were elected before the advent of television could not be viable candidates today. It's true for men and women alike.

You are correct. Television has created a new domain for politics and politicians. Images are far stronger and stay in people's minds longer than just hearing something on the radio.

FDR sitting in his wheelchair would not make it as president. JFK made it through his debates with his dark jacket & striking good looks when countering a pale/washed out Nixon who was wearing a gray suit in front of a gray background. Nixon was recovering from an illness so his palor did not help his ratings juxtaposed with vibrant, handsome JFK on national tv.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I formed my opinion of Sarah Palin during her speech at the RNC. She could have made an impression on me by showing some depth and intelligence. Through her constant attacks on Obama and sneering about his community organizer experience, I saw her as just another petty "pretty" face, though I don't think she's all that attractive and her whiny, nasally voice. Maybe by DC and political standards she is considered attractive. Anyone ever hear that politicians and actors are the same? The good-looking ones go to Hollywood and the ugly ones come to DC.

Lovely. You pick apart her looks and voice and take issue with whether she's really attractive. With women like you, who needs men to keep sexism alive.

As far as content, I'd rather listen to her witty jabs over Biden's rambling, incoherent and self-indulgent rants any day.

I heard a lot of jabs but no wit.

[Anonymous]

I don't care if Sarah Palin is a woman or a man. I don't care what she looks like. I don't care what she sounds like. I don't care if she has no kids or twelve kids. I don't care if her kids are disabled, pregnant, in the military, drug addicted, straight A students, whatever. I don't care what her husband does or looks like. I don't care if she was in a pageant. I sure as heck don't care if she played high school basketball. And I am not jealous of her.

I care about her policy beliefs and her qualifications. And the McCain campaign has not allowed her to provide information on those. But most of what I have heard scares me as a citizen because it leads me to believe she does not have the qualifications for the job (at this point in her career) or that she shares policy opinions that are anywhere close to mine (then again I don't know because she hasn't said). When she had a chance at the convention to talk about it -- she went negative and I felt she was dismissive and condescending. And the campaign staff has been even worse.

I am sick of hearing that people are sexist or jealous or ugly if they want to know more about her. I am sick of hearing questions about her answered with, Well, Obama is . . . ." or "Well Biden . . . ." That wasn't the question.

So my ANGER stems from the fact that the American public can't find out more about her qualifications -- in part because she is hiding behind being a woman and because people are too busy attacking things like her voice and touting her role as a point guard on the ole team instead of talking about things that matter. And as a woman that insults me.

[Anonymous]

Very interesting post. I wouldn't call it anger as much as fear and awe that McCain could pull it off with the VP pick that has become the RNC celebrity. I will admit to reading everything Palin and watching politics far more since this all happened. Every side has there viewpoint but from a Dem, it feels like after 8 years of Bush in which I gained a very healthy appreciation for the Constitution and the role of the government between the illegal wire taps, the outing of the CIA agent with the husband that disagreed with the Iraq policy, the Iraq war, all the corporate scandals , the mortgage meltdown and government bailouts, the Terry Chiavo/Congressional interference , the Republican change to the filibuster rules while in the majority of the Senate (taking away what little Supreme Court nominee filibuster comfort I had), the conservative bent of the court and selecting justices that likely have at least 30 years ahead of them and the implications that will have during my lifetime, and watching the disaster during the Katrina hurricane, the inability to get an immigration reform policy and how in some communities the push to the local level is making it neighbor against neighbor, and watching 8 years of wasted time in trying to move off the oil dependency (a process that won't be overnight by anyone estimate) and in fact giving oil companies tax breaks (I'm still trying to understand why we have to "encourage" the companies with tax breaks when oil is over a freakin $100 a barrel) and how the trickle down economics is working out on that - we may put the same party back as president. There is some jealously that we don't have an equivalent of Karl Rove or whatever other marketing/campaign geniuses on the Democratic side because I am quite convinced they could sell snow to an eskimo.

As for the whole debate on if Palin is qualified or not - you know before this election I was talking with my husband how people say they want experience, but if you have any kind of record people will use it to rip you to shred. In a way, it works out better when there is no paper trail. This is an unusual race in my lifetime where a senator will become president; it seems more likely from past elections that it isn't someone that has been in the Senate 30 years. In a way with the whole Palin pick combined with McCain being older seems to a) give you that person without the big paper trail and b) add that X factor when you have someone that has been around for 30 years - something we traditionally don't value in a presidential election.

With the whole getting by on her looks etc. I don't know her personally so I can't make a call on that BUT I kind of understand where another African-American DCUM woman was coming from in the sense that I've seen people get by with less education and more flirting than I could because I would likely not be attractive to the white males that were in the position of power. I say this too being in a position where I was interviewed for a job along with a co-worker at a different place and even with having X years of direct experience, a college degree from a top college, background from a top consulting company - the two interviewers couldn't decide between us - the guy wanted to hire the other female with no degree and no direct experience - was willing to teach her - while the woman wanted to hire me. I took another job and the other person ending up with the job and with dating the guy. So imagine if I didn't have all those qualifications to make the decision a tough one!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if Sarah Palin is a woman or a man. I don't care what she looks like. I don't care what she sounds like. I don't care if she has no kids or twelve kids. I don't care if her kids are disabled, pregnant, in the military, drug addicted, straight A students, whatever. I don't care what her husband does or looks like. I don't care if she was in a pageant. I sure as heck don't care if she played high school basketball. And I am not jealous of her.

I care about her policy beliefs and her qualifications. And the McCain campaign has not allowed her to provide information on those. But most of what I have heard scares me as a citizen because it leads me to believe she does not have the qualifications for the job (at this point in her career) or that she shares policy opinions that are anywhere close to mine (then again I don't know because she hasn't said). When she had a chance at the convention to talk about it -- she went negative and I felt she was dismissive and condescending. And the campaign staff has been even worse.

I am sick of hearing that people are sexist or jealous or ugly if they want to know more about her. I am sick of hearing questions about her answered with, Well, Obama is . . . ." or "Well Biden . . . ." That wasn't the question.

So my ANGER stems from the fact that the American public can't find out more about her qualifications -- in part because she is hiding behind being a woman and because people are too busy attacking things like her voice and touting her role as a point guard on the ole team instead of talking about things that matter. And as a woman that insults me.

You know? Yeah. What she said. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

I don't care if Sarah Palin is a woman or a man. I don't care what she looks like. I don't care what she sounds like. I don't care if she has no kids or twelve kids. I don't care if her kids are disabled, pregnant, in the military, drug addicted, straight A students, whatever. I don't care what her husband does or looks like. I don't care if she was in a pageant. I sure as heck don't care if she played high school basketball. And I am not jealous of her.

I care about her policy beliefs and her qualifications. And the McCain campaign has not allowed her to provide information on those. But most of what I have heard scares me as a citizen because it leads me to believe she does not have the qualifications for the job (at this point in her career) or that she shares policy opinions that are anywhere close to mine (then again I don't know because she hasn't said). When she had a chance at the convention to talk about it -- she went negative and I felt she was dismissive and condescending. And the campaign staff has been even worse.

I am sick of hearing that people are sexist or jealous or ugly if they want to know more about her. I am sick of hearing questions about her answered with, Well, Obama is . . . ." or "Well Biden . . . ." That wasn't the question.

So my ANGER stems from the fact that the American public can't find out more about her qualifications -- in part because she is hiding behind being a woman and because people are too busy attacking things like her voice and touting her role as a point guard on the ole team instead of talking about things that matter. And as a woman that insults me.

I think the qualifications argument is a thin veil. No one loves Obama because of his "qualifications." And frankly, being a community organizer doesn't inherently make you qualified for the presidency, no matter how awesome and commendable the work is. The truth is that the characterand philosphies of a person goes a LONG way in helping us decide whether or not we might want them leading our country, our state, our city, etc. I think the jumping off point for Palin is her stance on abortion. People who are strongly pro-choice simply and justifiably hate her, and since we don't talk so much about abortion anymore, we have to go find whatever other things make her an awful candidate. If we agree with a candidates deeply held beliefs, then their credentials impress us, their voice pleases us, their hairstyle or clothes become acceptable, their experience becomes meaningful to us, and their attacks on other candidates seem powerful and witty.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous
I think the qualifications argument is a thin veil. No one loves Obama because of his "qualifications." And frankly, being a community organizer doesn't inherently make you qualified for the presidency, no matter how awesome and commendable the work is. The truth is that the characterand philosphies of a person goes a LONG way in helping us decide whether or not we might want them leading our country, our state, our city, etc. I think the jumping off point for Palin is her stance on abortion. People who are strongly pro-choice simply and justifiably hate her, and since we don't talk so much about abortion anymore, we have to go find whatever other things make her an awful candidate. If we agree with a candidates deeply held beliefs, then their credentials impress us, their voice pleases us, their hairstyle or clothes become acceptable, their experience becomes meaningful to us, and their attacks on other candidates seem powerful and witty.

Yes ABSOLUTELY! PP, could you please come home with me and reason with my teenagers about driving privileges as well? You are the bomb. This is exactly how I feel and couldn't verbalize. COULD YOU RUN FOR PRESIDENT? Thank you for putting it so well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

People who are strongly pro-choice simply and justifiably hate her,

Do all people who hold pro-choice views HATE people who hold pro-life views? Seems like a mighty strong emotional response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a former community organizer, from Chicago no less, who made dirt then and still makes dirt compared to a lot of folks in DC and on this board because I have spent my entire working life in the non-profit sector trying to make the world a better place and trying to fix messes that folks in positions of inherent power leave behind, the arrogant dismissal of community organizing absolutely. Made. My. Blood. Boil.

How arrogant. How priviledged. How repulsive.


So that's been the root of a lot of my recent anger. And lots of folks get what organizing is. Unfortunately, their voices are too often buried.

I hear what you're saying, but I think you have to bear in mind that she was not taking a jab at "community organizing" in itself -- in the days before her speech, the Obama campaign belittled her experience as a small town mayor -- though they often have cited his time spent as a community organizer as a relevant credential. She was making a direct comparison between their respective experiences, in response to comments denigrating her work as a mayor and, by extension, small towns, which was also an arrogant dismissal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't care if Sarah Palin is a woman or a man. I don't care what she looks like. I don't care what she sounds like. I don't care if she has no kids or twelve kids. I don't care if her kids are disabled, pregnant, in the military, drug addicted, straight A students, whatever. I don't care what her husband does or looks like. I don't care if she was in a pageant. I sure as heck don't care if she played high school basketball. And I am not jealous of her.

I care about her policy beliefs and her qualifications. And the McCain campaign has not allowed her to provide information on those. But most of what I have heard scares me as a citizen because it leads me to believe she does not have the qualifications for the job (at this point in her career) or that she shares policy opinions that are anywhere close to mine (then again I don't know because she hasn't said). When she had a chance at the convention to talk about it -- she went negative and I felt she was dismissive and condescending. And the campaign staff has been even worse.

I am sick of hearing that people are sexist or jealous or ugly if they want to know more about her. I am sick of hearing questions about her answered with, Well, Obama is . . . ." or "Well Biden . . . ." That wasn't the question.

So my ANGER stems from the fact that the American public can't find out more about her qualifications -- in part because she is hiding behind being a woman and because people are too busy attacking things like her voice and touting her role as a point guard on the ole team instead of talking about things that matter. And as a woman that insults me.

I think the qualifications argument is a thin veil. No one loves Obama because of his "qualifications." And frankly, being a community organizer doesn't inherently make you qualified for the presidency, no matter how awesome and commendable the work is. The truth is that the characterand philosphies of a person goes a LONG way in helping us decide whether or not we might want them leading our country, our state, our city, etc. I think the jumping off point for Palin is her stance on abortion. People who are strongly pro-choice simply and justifiably hate her, and since we don't talk so much about abortion anymore, we have to go find whatever other things make her an awful candidate. If we agree with a candidates deeply held beliefs, then their credentials impress us, their voice pleases us, their hairstyle or clothes become acceptable, their experience becomes meaningful to us, and their attacks on other candidates seem powerful and witty.

Thanks for reinforcing my anger. Did you read the part in my prior post about how I am " sick of hearing questions about her answered with, 'Well, Obama is . . . .' or 'Well Biden . . . .' That wasn't the question."? And "qualifications" means more than experience in my book, by the way. I actually didn't favor anyone in the Dem primary because I was concerned over Obama's lack of experience and Clinton's divisiveness. But so far Palin has shown she one-ups them both.

[Anonymous]

I think the qualifications argument is a thin veil. No one loves Obama because of his "qualifications." And frankly, being a community organizer doesn't inherently make you qualified for the presidency, no matter how awesome and commendable the work is. The truth is that the characterand philosphies of a person goes a LONG way in helping us decide whether or not we might want them leading our country, our state, our city, etc. I think the jumping off point for Palin is her stance on abortion. People who are strongly pro-choice simply and justifiably hate her, and since we don't talk so much about abortion anymore, we have to go find whatever other things make her an awful candidate. If we agree with a candidates deeply held beliefs, then their credentials impress us, their voice pleases us, their hairstyle or clothes become acceptable, their experience becomes meaningful to us, and their attacks on other candidates seem powerful and witty.


Thanks for reinforcing my anger. Did you read the part in my prior post about how I am " sick of hearing questions about her answered with, 'Well, Obama is . . . .' or 'Well Biden . . . .' That wasn't the question."? And "qualifications" means more than experience in my book, by the way. I actually didn't favor anyone in the Dem primary because I was concerned over Obama's lack of experience and Clinton's divisiveness. But so far Palin has shown she one-ups them both.

I'm not sure you understood the point of my post. I wasn't trying to justify Palin by pointing out things about any other candidate.

[Anonymous]

I don't care if Sarah Palin is a woman or a man. I don't care what she looks like. I don't care what she sounds like. I don't care if she has no kids or twelve kids. I don't care if her kids are disabled, pregnant, in the military, drug addicted, straight A students, whatever. I don't care what her husband does or looks like. I don't care if she was in a pageant. I sure as heck don't care if she played high school basketball. And I am not jealous of her.

I care about her policy beliefs and her qualifications. And the McCain campaign has not allowed her to provide information on those. But most of what I have heard scares me as a citizen because it leads me to believe she does not have the qualifications for the job (at this point in her career) or that she shares policy opinions that are anywhere close to mine (then again I don't know because she hasn't said). When she had a chance at the convention to talk about it -- she went negative and I felt she was dismissive and condescending. And the campaign staff has been even worse.

I am sick of hearing that people are sexist or jealous or ugly if they want to know more about her. I am sick of hearing questions about her answered with, Well, Obama is . . . ." or "Well Biden . . . ." That wasn't the question.

So my ANGER stems from the fact that the American public can't find out more about her qualifications -- in part because she is hiding behind being a woman and because people are too busy attacking things like her voice and touting her role as a point guard on the ole team instead of talking about things that matter. And as a woman that insults me.

TOTALLY agree. My issues with her have absolutely nothing to do with her gender, her family life, her appearance, or, frankly, even her pro-life views. My issues are her qualifications (or lack thereof) and her already proven dishonesties.

[Anonymous]

OP again. Some of these postings are making me feel guilty about starting this. The goal was to learn about each other's hot buttons so they would not get pushed so much. Some of these postings seem to be looking for hot buttons to push.

But heck, I'm no censor. Have fun, ladies!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a former community organizer, from Chicago no less, who made dirt then and still makes dirt compared to a lot of folks in DC and on this board because I have spent my entire working life in the non-profit sector trying to make the world a better place and trying to fix messes that folks in positions of inherent power leave behind, the arrogant dismissal of community organizing absolutely. Made. My. Blood. Boil.

How arrogant. How priviledged. How repulsive.


So that's been the root of a lot of my recent anger. And lots of folks get what organizing is. Unfortunately, their voices are too often buried.

I hear what you're saying, but I think you have to bear in mind that she was not taking a jab at "community organizing" in itself -- in the days before her speech, the Obama campaign belittled her experience as a small town mayor -- though they often have cited his time spent as a community organizer as a relevant credential. She was making a direct comparison between their respective experiences, in response to comments denigrating her work as a mayor and, by extension, small towns, which was also an arrogant dismissal.

I've heard this excuse touted "well they belitted small town mayors so we belittle community organizers everywhere". How does that make it right? I was watching some news show - I don't know which - that made the point that many women politicians first get their start as mayors of small towns. If that type of point was made during the speeches - I would have respected it. I think the argument could have been made how PTA/Hockeymom to small town mayor was just as important as being a community organizer without saying a community organizer doesn't do crap. There is such a social justice/fight for equality/give a voice to the people that don't have a voice - aspect to community organizer that to completely diss it to me is the equivalent of saying "and let them eat cake". I don't know if I can explain it to someone that hasn't ever felt powerless or needed to band together to get something done, but it felt as though I was told that individuals can't make a difference, only politicians who are "just like me" can make a difference . My immediate thought was oh sh&t, since I am not a conservative leaning, religious female or an older white male from a distinguished military family and career I'm in big trouble since I am depending on someone to be "just like me" in order to have my concerns addressed because as mentioned above the RNC felt that community organizing and everday people banding together to get something done is crap. So yes, the community organizer comment did get me angry.