Would you let your child study liberal arts?

[Anonymous]

LMFAO
they cruise through some easy majors and think that they somehow learned how to learn better

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the “STEM” only approach to college a first generation or Asian immigrant thing? It is a bit jarring to read the lack of appreciation for becoming a well rounded, educated adult that is knowledgeable about history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages and, yes, the sciences.

Since ROI seems most important in this discussion, our HHI is over $2 million and our college degrees are in English and Political Science.

Some specific cases from here and there are not too meaningful, i.e. a random person saying they are making 2 million after majoring in English.

If you get any degree from a good school, you'll get a good liberal arts education as part of general requirements. 
For your actual major, you better major something real.
You can always minor in history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages to complement your real major.

However you don't force your kid to major in something.
You would guide your kids based on talent and interest

Can you tell me - are you Asian immigrants?

Not that PP but I'm not Asian and I agree with it.

Ok. What is your net worth? Did your parents and grandparents go to college? I am curious if this attitude is a social class divide or due to growing up in another country. I find it fascinating.

My parents were physicians who went to elite schools. One grandfather went to MIT, the other to Cambridge (UK). Our family likes science. Make of that what you will.

[Anonymous]

I have a BA in Poli Sci and History, minor in Asian studies (1997). MS in international Relations (2007). Multiple certifications in… IT and IT program management. My job for the last decade has been IT program management.
That said, today I would be less likely to be able to “get my foot in the door” with a these degrees. My company does not hire people without a degree in computer science unless they have great experience to back up a more liberal arts type degree.
Most sciences fall under a BS, but many can fall under BA. For example, UVA has both a BS and BA in Computer Science, as well as Chemistry and some other sciences. Interesting breakdown for computer science can be found at https://engineering.virginia.edu/departments/computer-science/cs-undergraduate-programs
My kids are 13 and 15. I will steer both of them towards a BS.
As far as “let”… I see both arguments. It is money I have saved for their tuition, so I should have some input. However, they need to have a high level of choice, as this is their future. My father pressured my brother into engineering, and he dropped out after a year since it wasn’t what he wanted to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the “STEM” only approach to college a first generation or Asian immigrant thing? It is a bit jarring to read the lack of appreciation for becoming a well rounded, educated adult that is knowledgeable about history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages and, yes, the sciences.

Since ROI seems most important in this discussion, our HHI is over $2 million and our college degrees are in English and Political Science.

Some specific cases from here and there are not too meaningful, i.e. a random person saying they are making 2 million after majoring in English.

If you get any degree from a good school, you'll get a good liberal arts education as part of general requirements. 
For your actual major, you better major something real.
You can always minor in history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages to complement your real major.

However you don't force your kid to major in something.
You would guide your kids based on talent and interest

Can you tell me - are you Asian immigrants?

Not that PP but I'm not Asian and I agree with it.

Ok. What is your net worth? Did your parents and grandparents go to college? I am curious if this attitude is a social class divide or due to growing up in another country. I find it fascinating.

My parents were physicians who went to elite schools. One grandfather went to MIT, the other to Cambridge (UK). Our family likes science. Make of that what you will.

Your family likes science, but what if your child doesn’t?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the “STEM” only approach to college a first generation or Asian immigrant thing? It is a bit jarring to read the lack of appreciation for becoming a well rounded, educated adult that is knowledgeable about history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages and, yes, the sciences.

Since ROI seems most important in this discussion, our HHI is over $2 million and our college degrees are in English and Political Science.

Some specific cases from here and there are not too meaningful, i.e. a random person saying they are making 2 million after majoring in English.

If you get any degree from a good school, you'll get a good liberal arts education as part of general requirements. 
For your actual major, you better major something real.
You can always minor in history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages to complement your real major.

However you don't force your kid to major in something.
You would guide your kids based on talent and interest

Can you tell me - are you Asian immigrants?

Not that PP but I'm not Asian and I agree with it.

Ok. What is your net worth? Did your parents and grandparents go to college? I am curious if this attitude is a social class divide or due to growing up in another country. I find it fascinating.

My parents were physicians who went to elite schools. One grandfather went to MIT, the other to Cambridge (UK). Our family likes science. Make of that what you will.

Your family likes science, but what if your child doesn’t?

My kid is pretty talented and loves art.
Also very smart and doesn't hate science.
I guided the kid to a CS + Art combined major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the “STEM” only approach to college a first generation or Asian immigrant thing? It is a bit jarring to read the lack of appreciation for becoming a well rounded, educated adult that is knowledgeable about history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages and, yes, the sciences.

Since ROI seems most important in this discussion, our HHI is over $2 million and our college degrees are in English and Political Science.

Some specific cases from here and there are not too meaningful, i.e. a random person saying they are making 2 million after majoring in English.

If you get any degree from a good school, you'll get a good liberal arts education as part of general requirements. 
For your actual major, you better major something real.
You can always minor in history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages to complement your real major.

However you don't force your kid to major in something.
You would guide your kids based on talent and interest

Can you tell me - are you Asian immigrants?

Not that PP but I'm not Asian and I agree with it.

Ok. What is your net worth? Did your parents and grandparents go to college? I am curious if this attitude is a social class divide or due to growing up in another country. I find it fascinating.

My parents were physicians who went to elite schools. One grandfather went to MIT, the other to Cambridge (UK). Our family likes science. Make of that what you will.

Your family likes science, but what if your child doesn’t?

You make them like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the “STEM” only approach to college a first generation or Asian immigrant thing? It is a bit jarring to read the lack of appreciation for becoming a well rounded, educated adult that is knowledgeable about history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages and, yes, the sciences.

Since ROI seems most important in this discussion, our HHI is over $2 million and our college degrees are in English and Political Science.

Some specific cases from here and there are not too meaningful, i.e. a random person saying they are making 2 million after majoring in English.

If you get any degree from a good school, you'll get a good liberal arts education as part of general requirements. 
For your actual major, you better major something real.
You can always minor in history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages to complement your real major.

However you don't force your kid to major in something.
You would guide your kids based on talent and interest

Can you tell me - are you Asian immigrants?

Not that PP but I'm not Asian and I agree with it.

Ok. What is your net worth? Did your parents and grandparents go to college? I am curious if this attitude is a social class divide or due to growing up in another country. I find it fascinating.

My parents were physicians who went to elite schools. One grandfather went to MIT, the other to Cambridge (UK). Our family likes science. Make of that what you will.

Your family likes science, but what if your child doesn’t?

You make them like it.

Has that ever worked, in the history of humankind? Or is it usually disastrous?

"Love goes toward love as schoolboys from their books, But love from love, toward school with heavy looks."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the “STEM” only approach to college a first generation or Asian immigrant thing? It is a bit jarring to read the lack of appreciation for becoming a well rounded, educated adult that is knowledgeable about history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages and, yes, the sciences.

Since ROI seems most important in this discussion, our HHI is over $2 million and our college degrees are in English and Political Science.

Some specific cases from here and there are not too meaningful, i.e. a random person saying they are making 2 million after majoring in English.

If you get any degree from a good school, you'll get a good liberal arts education as part of general requirements. 
For your actual major, you better major something real.
You can always minor in history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages to complement your real major.

However you don't force your kid to major in something.
You would guide your kids based on talent and interest

Can you tell me - are you Asian immigrants?

Not that PP but I'm not Asian and I agree with it.

Ok. What is your net worth? Did your parents and grandparents go to college? I am curious if this attitude is a social class divide or due to growing up in another country. I find it fascinating.

My parents were physicians who went to elite schools. One grandfather went to MIT, the other to Cambridge (UK). Our family likes science. Make of that what you will.

Your family likes science, but what if your child doesn’t?

I am that PP, and of course I am going to let my kids chart their own course through life. All I can do is provide them with information and encourage them to make wise choices. It's not going to be the end of the world if they get a liberal arts degree - and I predict my DD will do this.

I would not encourage a kid to go to a "STEM-heavy" school like MIT unless science and math was their whole life, and you can definitely tell whether or not that is true when they are in high school. If they like STEM but it's not their whole life, better to go to a less-specialized school with more options if they're uncertain of their major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the “STEM” only approach to college a first generation or Asian immigrant thing? It is a bit jarring to read the lack of appreciation for becoming a well rounded, educated adult that is knowledgeable about history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages and, yes, the sciences.

Since ROI seems most important in this discussion, our HHI is over $2 million and our college degrees are in English and Political Science.

Some specific cases from here and there are not too meaningful, i.e. a random person saying they are making 2 million after majoring in English.

If you get any degree from a good school, you'll get a good liberal arts education as part of general requirements. 
For your actual major, you better major something real.
You can always minor in history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages to complement your real major.

However you don't force your kid to major in something.
You would guide your kids based on talent and interest

FYI---English and political science are "real majors". They are well rounded people with critical thinking and writing skills. No reason not to major in those. However, they will go further with a minor in something that helps make them "marketable". So business, finance, CS, data analytics, etc. Or just have a plan for what they want to do with life. Not everyone can or should be a STEM major. World would be a terrible place if everyone was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the “STEM” only approach to college a first generation or Asian immigrant thing? It is a bit jarring to read the lack of appreciation for becoming a well rounded, educated adult that is knowledgeable about history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages and, yes, the sciences.

Since ROI seems most important in this discussion, our HHI is over $2 million and our college degrees are in English and Political Science.

+1
We have the same HHI and our liberal arts degrees were in Econ and gasp….German! We both went straight to wall st, and neither got any advanced degrees. I’ve posted this before but on wall st we always were involved in recruiting so we’d get a say in the new hires for our group. Almost all of our hires were either small liberal arts colleges or ivies. We wanted the kids that had learned how to learn. We’d be teaching them everything they needed to know, they just needed the ability to learn it. I learned from my experience after hiring a few finance majors from big universities. They were all disasters as they essentially had memorized ways to do things but were incapable of learning how to apply them to the real world. They were also way behind as far as being able to chat about current events, geopolitical things (which obviously played into our industry), etc.

critical thinking skills are the MOST important thing you should learn in college, IMO. As you stated, you can train anyone to do almost anything (well not engineering or doctor, but even CS can be taught to a smart, critical thinker who majored in English/German/etc). As an employer I want smart people who have critical thinking skills and can learn---that is who goes far in life. You can get there as an engineer, a business major, an Art history major, or many others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the “STEM” only approach to college a first generation or Asian immigrant thing? It is a bit jarring to read the lack of appreciation for becoming a well rounded, educated adult that is knowledgeable about history, religion, philosophy, literature, politics, world languages and, yes, the sciences.

Since ROI seems most important in this discussion, our HHI is over $2 million and our college degrees are in English and Political Science.

+1
We have the same HHI and our liberal arts degrees were in Econ and gasp….German! We both went straight to wall st, and neither got any advanced degrees. I’ve posted this before but on wall st we always were involved in recruiting so we’d get a say in the new hires for our group. Almost all of our hires were either small liberal arts colleges or ivies. We wanted the kids that had learned how to learn. We’d be teaching them everything they needed to know, they just needed the ability to learn it. I learned from my experience after hiring a few finance majors from big universities. They were all disasters as they essentially had memorized ways to do things but were incapable of learning how to apply them to the real world. They were also way behind as far as being able to chat about current events, geopolitical things (which obviously played into our industry), etc.

If you don't think STEM majors have "learned how to learn" you don't know much about STEM majors. They learn more, much harder things than any liberal arts major.

The point is people need to get over the idea that only stem majors are employable. It's simply not true. Good stem majors learn how to learn and have amazing critical thinking skills, and at most universities the kids learn how to write very well. Same for business majors and all the humanities. Ultimately, I want workers who can think outside the box, and don't care as much what their major was (unless I'm hiring a mech engineer, then yes, they need the experience), but many jobs you learn on the job. Many in finance learn on the job, many in IT do as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a BA in Poli Sci and History, minor in Asian studies (1997). MS in international Relations (2007). Multiple certifications in… IT and IT program management. My job for the last decade has been IT program management.
That said, today I would be less likely to be able to “get my foot in the door” with a these degrees. My company does not hire people without a degree in computer science unless they have great experience to back up a more liberal arts type degree.
Most sciences fall under a BS, but many can fall under BA. For example, UVA has both a BS and BA in Computer Science, as well as Chemistry and some other sciences. Interesting breakdown for computer science can be found at https://engineering.virginia.edu/departments/computer-science/cs-undergraduate-programs
My kids are 13 and 15. I will steer both of them towards a BS.
As far as “let”… I see both arguments. It is money I have saved for their tuition, so I should have some input. However, they need to have a high level of choice, as this is their future. My father pressured my brother into engineering, and he dropped out after a year since it wasn’t what he wanted to do.

And your brother is the exact reason why parents should not pressure their kids. If your kid wants a BA in CS or a BA in anything why shouldn't they get that. I'd focus more on encouraging them to get a CS minor, or IT minor, or business/finance minor---So that they have something tangible to help them get a job with their BA. But I'd never force my kids into something just cause the job prospects are "better". If a kid is miserable in their major, they are not gonna get nearly as much out of college as someone who is highly invested in learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a BA in Poli Sci and History, minor in Asian studies (1997). MS in international Relations (2007). Multiple certifications in… IT and IT program management. My job for the last decade has been IT program management.
That said, today I would be less likely to be able to “get my foot in the door” with a these degrees. My company does not hire people without a degree in computer science unless they have great experience to back up a more liberal arts type degree.
Most sciences fall under a BS, but many can fall under BA. For example, UVA has both a BS and BA in Computer Science, as well as Chemistry and some other sciences. Interesting breakdown for computer science can be found at https://engineering.virginia.edu/departments/computer-science/cs-undergraduate-programs
My kids are 13 and 15. I will steer both of them towards a BS.
As far as “let”… I see both arguments. It is money I have saved for their tuition, so I should have some input. However, they need to have a high level of choice, as this is their future. My father pressured my brother into engineering, and he dropped out after a year since it wasn’t what he wanted to do.

And your brother is the exact reason why parents should not pressure their kids. If your kid wants a BA in CS or a BA in anything why shouldn't they get that. I'd focus more on encouraging them to get a CS minor, or IT minor, or business/finance minor---So that they have something tangible to help them get a job with their BA. But I'd never force my kids into something just cause the job prospects are "better". If a kid is miserable in their major, they are not gonna get nearly as much out of college as someone who is highly invested in learning.

The reason you should, if not pressure your kids, at least give them very strong encouragement to do something real, sensible, and practical, is that kids don't know anything about the working world. Their "advisors" in high school are low-quality ambitionless duds content to have a low-effort job teaching secondary school. These advisors have no clue what the real world is like, and that's why they say stupid things like "major in liberal arts, you'll do fine". If your kids want good advice, they sure aren't going to get it from a high school teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a BA in Poli Sci and History, minor in Asian studies (1997). MS in international Relations (2007). Multiple certifications in… IT and IT program management. My job for the last decade has been IT program management.
That said, today I would be less likely to be able to “get my foot in the door” with a these degrees. My company does not hire people without a degree in computer science unless they have great experience to back up a more liberal arts type degree.
Most sciences fall under a BS, but many can fall under BA. For example, UVA has both a BS and BA in Computer Science, as well as Chemistry and some other sciences. Interesting breakdown for computer science can be found at https://engineering.virginia.edu/departments/computer-science/cs-undergraduate-programs
My kids are 13 and 15. I will steer both of them towards a BS.
As far as “let”… I see both arguments. It is money I have saved for their tuition, so I should have some input. However, they need to have a high level of choice, as this is their future. My father pressured my brother into engineering, and he dropped out after a year since it wasn’t what he wanted to do.

And your brother is the exact reason why parents should not pressure their kids. If your kid wants a BA in CS or a BA in anything why shouldn't they get that. I'd focus more on encouraging them to get a CS minor, or IT minor, or business/finance minor---So that they have something tangible to help them get a job with their BA. But I'd never force my kids into something just cause the job prospects are "better". If a kid is miserable in their major, they are not gonna get nearly as much out of college as someone who is highly invested in learning.

The reason you should, if not pressure your kids, at least give them very strong encouragement to do something real, sensible, and practical, is that kids don't know anything about the working world. Their "advisors" in high school are low-quality ambitionless duds content to have a low-effort job teaching secondary school. These advisors have no clue what the real world is like, and that's why they say stupid things like "major in liberal arts, you'll do fine". If your kids want good advice, they sure aren't going to get it from a high school teacher.

Never said not to prepare your kid for the real world. I strongly encourage all college students to consider a minor in business/finance/marketing/CS/IT/etc if they are not majoring in STEM that lends itself to an easy employment path. But I'm smart enough to realize that plenty of English/philosophy/art history/music/art majors do very well in life---it's all about finding your path. Your path is just not as well defined with those majors over say Engineering/finance/accounting, so you need to work a bit harder to find your path---there are not a lot of jobs that say "English major required" on the job listing, but if you pair your critical thinking with some business skills/CS skills you can be very attractive hire for many companies and might even get some internship experience while in college.

But if you are an involved parent, your kids should be taking guidance from you well before HS and be on a path to explore what interests them along with something that makes them employable---My kids didn't get that from HS, they got it from us and our friends and general family discussions over the years that started well before HS.

[Anonymous]

!00% yes, I would permit my child to study liberal arts. Many liberal arts majors head to graduate or professional schools while many enjoy successful careers without ever earning a graduate degree.

The better question might be where would you let your child study liberal arts. Important to understand the campus culture at small (under 2,000 students) college located in a rural, isolated area. Fine for some,but not everyone's cup of tea.

Without the opportunity to study liberal arts, education would suffer greatly--in my opinion.