Colleges and Universities almost universally plan to be open in the fall

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's what will happen: most or all schools will open under some new operational scheme and with certain limitation and restrictions in place. Most or all will utterly fail to implement said restrictions because they will be impossible to implement (quarantine students in hotels, are you f'ing kidding me???). Utter chaos ensues and COVID cases spike again (which happens whether or not schools re-open). All the open schools exacerbate the spike and are either forced to close again or just carry on and infect everybody on campus and in their town and city. Will not be pretty.

+1

[Anonymous]

We just heard from our uni for the first time. The admin is completely deluded. There will be 3 semesters to reduce density, students will be quarantined along the lines of the oped, we can trust the students to protect the community by social distancing and wearing face coverings. Nobody asked the faculty if they are willing to spread their teaching over 3 semesters, or if students will be happy with 3 semesters...and everything will have to be prepared for online and in person instruction. But no worries, our teaching loads are not increasing.
It's pretty obvious that their committee on reopening consisted almost entirely of administrators, not teaching faculty...Other unis have apparently surveyed faculty about their comfort teaching in person, their health conditions etc. Nothing here so far - just decisions by admins removed from education. Oh and only 1/3 of our faculty are in an at risk age group (what to they consider at risk?).
What I think will happen is that we start out with this plan, a huge outbreak inevitably occurs so that we move online again, and then both students and faculty are stuck with this moronic 3 semester layout, but online! The worst of both worlds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We just heard from our uni for the first time. The admin is completely deluded. There will be 3 semesters to reduce density, students will be quarantined along the lines of the oped, we can trust the students to protect the community by social distancing and wearing face coverings. Nobody asked the faculty if they are willing to spread their teaching over 3 semesters, or if students will be happy with 3 semesters...and everything will have to be prepared for online and in person instruction. But no worries, our teaching loads are not increasing.
It's pretty obvious that their committee on reopening consisted almost entirely of administrators, not teaching faculty...Other unis have apparently surveyed faculty about their comfort teaching in person, their health conditions etc. Nothing here so far - just decisions by admins removed from education. Oh and only 1/3 of our faculty are in an at risk age group (what to they consider at risk?).
What I think will happen is that we start out with this plan, a huge outbreak inevitably occurs so that we move online again, and then both students and faculty are stuck with this moronic 3 semester layout, but online! The worst of both worlds.

You're faculty, right? I'm sorry they didn't consult with faculty because that sounds like an absolute must in this situation. How devaluing of faculty, not to include them in the decision.

I know this site and I know someone else will come to ask this so I'll just go ahead and do it: Can you name the university? I get that you might not want to. I wouldn't. Can you at least tell us -- what size school is it and is it in the US? (You referred to it as "uni" which I hear done by people in the UK and Canada but less here.)

I am asking not because I think it's my own kid's college but because I'd like to get a bead on what size your university is just for comparison. Is summer supposed to be the third semester? Are all three semesters shorter? That would be more like my own undergrad with three quarters Sept-June and the fourth quarter being summer -- that's not "semesters" at all and you'd have to cut the number of classes in a student's class load if you have much shorter "semesters." ??

And I agree that your employer is insane to think that students are going to wear masks and practice social distancing for long or in any meaningful way. They still have to share dorm rooms, bathrooms, dining halls, etc., right? That alone -- forget classrooms -- will cause the virus to spread. I would not blame any faculty member, administrator or staff member who quit as these kinds of wildly stupid plans emerge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just heard from our uni for the first time. The admin is completely deluded. There will be 3 semesters to reduce density, students will be quarantined along the lines of the oped, we can trust the students to protect the community by social distancing and wearing face coverings. Nobody asked the faculty if they are willing to spread their teaching over 3 semesters, or if students will be happy with 3 semesters...and everything will have to be prepared for online and in person instruction. But no worries, our teaching loads are not increasing.
It's pretty obvious that their committee on reopening consisted almost entirely of administrators, not teaching faculty...Other unis have apparently surveyed faculty about their comfort teaching in person, their health conditions etc. Nothing here so far - just decisions by admins removed from education. Oh and only 1/3 of our faculty are in an at risk age group (what to they consider at risk?).
What I think will happen is that we start out with this plan, a huge outbreak inevitably occurs so that we move online again, and then both students and faculty are stuck with this moronic 3 semester layout, but online! The worst of both worlds.

You're faculty, right? I'm sorry they didn't consult with faculty because that sounds like an absolute must in this situation. How devaluing of faculty, not to include them in the decision.

I know this site and I know someone else will come to ask this so I'll just go ahead and do it: Can you name the university? I get that you might not want to. I wouldn't. Can you at least tell us -- what size school is it and is it in the US? (You referred to it as "uni" which I hear done by people in the UK and Canada but less here.)

I am asking not because I think it's my own kid's college but because I'd like to get a bead on what size your university is just for comparison. Is summer supposed to be the third semester? Are all three semesters shorter? That would be more like my own undergrad with three quarters Sept-June and the fourth quarter being summer -- that's not "semesters" at all and you'd have to cut the number of classes in a student's class load if you have much shorter "semesters." ??

And I agree that your employer is insane to think that students are going to wear masks and practice social distancing for long or in any meaningful way. They still have to share dorm rooms, bathrooms, dining halls, etc., right? That alone -- forget classrooms -- will cause the virus to spread. I would not blame any faculty member, administrator or staff member who quit as these kinds of wildly stupid plans emerge.

PP here. We are a top private school in the US in an urban location, with a student population on the order of 10K. The semesters will all be regular length, with a summer semester. Vacations would apparently be cut short or eliminated. But we haven't heard the details yet on dates. Each student would attend 2/3 semesters in person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just heard from our uni for the first time. The admin is completely deluded. There will be 3 semesters to reduce density, students will be quarantined along the lines of the oped, we can trust the students to protect the community by social distancing and wearing face coverings. Nobody asked the faculty if they are willing to spread their teaching over 3 semesters, or if students will be happy with 3 semesters...and everything will have to be prepared for online and in person instruction. But no worries, our teaching loads are not increasing.
It's pretty obvious that their committee on reopening consisted almost entirely of administrators, not teaching faculty...Other unis have apparently surveyed faculty about their comfort teaching in person, their health conditions etc. Nothing here so far - just decisions by admins removed from education. Oh and only 1/3 of our faculty are in an at risk age group (what to they consider at risk?).
What I think will happen is that we start out with this plan, a huge outbreak inevitably occurs so that we move online again, and then both students and faculty are stuck with this moronic 3 semester layout, but online! The worst of both worlds.

You're faculty, right? I'm sorry they didn't consult with faculty because that sounds like an absolute must in this situation. How devaluing of faculty, not to include them in the decision.

I know this site and I know someone else will come to ask this so I'll just go ahead and do it: Can you name the university? I get that you might not want to. I wouldn't. Can you at least tell us -- what size school is it and is it in the US? (You referred to it as "uni" which I hear done by people in the UK and Canada but less here.)

I am asking not because I think it's my own kid's college but because I'd like to get a bead on what size your university is just for comparison. Is summer supposed to be the third semester? Are all three semesters shorter? That would be more like my own undergrad with three quarters Sept-June and the fourth quarter being summer -- that's not "semesters" at all and you'd have to cut the number of classes in a student's class load if you have much shorter "semesters." ??

And I agree that your employer is insane to think that students are going to wear masks and practice social distancing for long or in any meaningful way. They still have to share dorm rooms, bathrooms, dining halls, etc., right? That alone -- forget classrooms -- will cause the virus to spread. I would not blame any faculty member, administrator or staff member who quit as these kinds of wildly stupid plans emerge.

PP here. We are a top private school in the US in an urban location, with a student population on the order of 10K. The semesters will all be regular length, with a summer semester. Vacations would apparently be cut short or eliminated. But we haven't heard the details yet on dates. Each student would attend 2/3 semesters in person.

I work at large top 50 university and they most certainly have not surveyed faculty about anything. We're told that we will be doing whatever the administration decides, and they have no idea what that will be but it sounds like a mish mash of terrible ideas. Putting students on the basketball court for class and doing some kind of weird half asynchronous combo for kids who don't want to be there. No idea where they are going to find basketball courts for 1,000 different classes. It would be awesome if this whole fiasco thins out the admin ranks by about 33% but I can only imagine a few NEW offices getting created. "Office of Emergency Lockdown Preparedness," "Associate Director of Diversity During Outbreaks," "Supervisor of Supervisors of Disinfection of Facilities". What a mess

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just heard from our uni for the first time. The admin is completely deluded. There will be 3 semesters to reduce density, students will be quarantined along the lines of the oped, we can trust the students to protect the community by social distancing and wearing face coverings. Nobody asked the faculty if they are willing to spread their teaching over 3 semesters, or if students will be happy with 3 semesters...and everything will have to be prepared for online and in person instruction. But no worries, our teaching loads are not increasing.
It's pretty obvious that their committee on reopening consisted almost entirely of administrators, not teaching faculty...Other unis have apparently surveyed faculty about their comfort teaching in person, their health conditions etc. Nothing here so far - just decisions by admins removed from education. Oh and only 1/3 of our faculty are in an at risk age group (what to they consider at risk?).
What I think will happen is that we start out with this plan, a huge outbreak inevitably occurs so that we move online again, and then both students and faculty are stuck with this moronic 3 semester layout, but online! The worst of both worlds.

You're faculty, right? I'm sorry they didn't consult with faculty because that sounds like an absolute must in this situation. How devaluing of faculty, not to include them in the decision.

I know this site and I know someone else will come to ask this so I'll just go ahead and do it: Can you name the university? I get that you might not want to. I wouldn't. Can you at least tell us -- what size school is it and is it in the US? (You referred to it as "uni" which I hear done by people in the UK and Canada but less here.)

I am asking not because I think it's my own kid's college but because I'd like to get a bead on what size your university is just for comparison. Is summer supposed to be the third semester? Are all three semesters shorter? That would be more like my own undergrad with three quarters Sept-June and the fourth quarter being summer -- that's not "semesters" at all and you'd have to cut the number of classes in a student's class load if you have much shorter "semesters." ??

And I agree that your employer is insane to think that students are going to wear masks and practice social distancing for long or in any meaningful way. They still have to share dorm rooms, bathrooms, dining halls, etc., right? That alone -- forget classrooms -- will cause the virus to spread. I would not blame any faculty member, administrator or staff member who quit as these kinds of wildly stupid plans emerge.

PP here. We are a top private school in the US in an urban location, with a student population on the order of 10K. The semesters will all be regular length, with a summer semester. Vacations would apparently be cut short or eliminated. But we haven't heard the details yet on dates. Each student would attend 2/3 semesters in person.

I work at large top 50 university and they most certainly have not surveyed faculty about anything. We're told that we will be doing whatever the administration decides, and they have no idea what that will be but it sounds like a mish mash of terrible ideas. Putting students on the basketball court for class and doing some kind of weird half asynchronous combo for kids who don't want to be there. No idea where they are going to find basketball courts for 1,000 different classes. It would be awesome if this whole fiasco thins out the admin ranks by about 33% but I can only imagine a few NEW offices getting created. "Office of Emergency Lockdown Preparedness," "Associate Director of Diversity During Outbreaks," "Supervisor of Supervisors of Disinfection of Facilities". What a mess

[Anonymous]

Honestly the rest of the town that the college is in is at greater risk than the students.

We had a doofus dental student who was on spring break in Portugal (Covid was known at this time), got sick in Portugal,
was still sick when he returned back to the college, and then
did dental work on poor members of the community before he decided to get tested and he tested positive.

Cleaners at our university are African American and generally overweight, so at risk.

Your students are generally safe but those at risk are more likely to be support staff in the community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just heard from our uni for the first time. The admin is completely deluded. There will be 3 semesters to reduce density, students will be quarantined along the lines of the oped, we can trust the students to protect the community by social distancing and wearing face coverings. Nobody asked the faculty if they are willing to spread their teaching over 3 semesters, or if students will be happy with 3 semesters...and everything will have to be prepared for online and in person instruction. But no worries, our teaching loads are not increasing.
It's pretty obvious that their committee on reopening consisted almost entirely of administrators, not teaching faculty...Other unis have apparently surveyed faculty about their comfort teaching in person, their health conditions etc. Nothing here so far - just decisions by admins removed from education. Oh and only 1/3 of our faculty are in an at risk age group (what to they consider at risk?).
What I think will happen is that we start out with this plan, a huge outbreak inevitably occurs so that we move online again, and then both students and faculty are stuck with this moronic 3 semester layout, but online! The worst of both worlds.

You're faculty, right? I'm sorry they didn't consult with faculty because that sounds like an absolute must in this situation. How devaluing of faculty, not to include them in the decision.

I know this site and I know someone else will come to ask this so I'll just go ahead and do it: Can you name the university? I get that you might not want to. I wouldn't. Can you at least tell us -- what size school is it and is it in the US? (You referred to it as "uni" which I hear done by people in the UK and Canada but less here.)

I am asking not because I think it's my own kid's college but because I'd like to get a bead on what size your university is just for comparison. Is summer supposed to be the third semester? Are all three semesters shorter? That would be more like my own undergrad with three quarters Sept-June and the fourth quarter being summer -- that's not "semesters" at all and you'd have to cut the number of classes in a student's class load if you have much shorter "semesters." ??

And I agree that your employer is insane to think that students are going to wear masks and practice social distancing for long or in any meaningful way. They still have to share dorm rooms, bathrooms, dining halls, etc., right? That alone -- forget classrooms -- will cause the virus to spread. I would not blame any faculty member, administrator or staff member who quit as these kinds of wildly stupid plans emerge.

PP here. We are a top private school in the US in an urban location, with a student population on the order of 10K. The semesters will all be regular length, with a summer semester. Vacations would apparently be cut short or eliminated. But we haven't heard the details yet on dates. Each student would attend 2/3 semesters in person.

I work at large top 50 university and they most certainly have not surveyed faculty about anything. We're told that we will be doing whatever the administration decides, and they have no idea what that will be but it sounds like a mish mash of terrible ideas. Putting students on the basketball court for class and doing some kind of weird half asynchronous combo for kids who don't want to be there. No idea where they are going to find basketball courts for 1,000 different classes. It would be awesome if this whole fiasco thins out the admin ranks by about 33% but I can only imagine a few NEW offices getting created. "Office of Emergency Lockdown Preparedness," "Associate Director of Diversity During Outbreaks," "Supervisor of Supervisors of Disinfection of Facilities". What a mess

There is a member of our Athletic Department who gets paid $75,000 per year just to attend games. That is their job. Attend games. Write a report.

I have a friend who wanted to "get on at the university.' He started in janitorial. He could clean his buildings in 2 hours. He was told to stretch his work to an 8 hour day as he was making the rest of the department look bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly the rest of the town that the college is in is at greater risk than the students.

We had a doofus dental student who was on spring break in Portugal (Covid was known at this time), got sick in Portugal,
was still sick when he returned back to the college, and then
did dental work on poor members of the community before he decided to get tested and he tested positive.

Cleaners at our university are African American and generally overweight, so at risk.

Your students are generally safe but those at risk are more likely to be support staff in the community.

Exactly. And that was a dental student who should have known better! But we expect 18 year olds to do whatever it takes to protect the staff and faculty. They should put front-line staff and faculty on these committees that decide how to reopen - not a bunch of administrators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly the rest of the town that the college is in is at greater risk than the students.

We had a doofus dental student who was on spring break in Portugal (Covid was known at this time), got sick in Portugal,
was still sick when he returned back to the college, and then
did dental work on poor members of the community before he decided to get tested and he tested positive.

Cleaners at our university are African American and generally overweight, so at risk.

Your students are generally safe but those at risk are more likely to be support staff in the community.

well, my college kid had some dental work at the local dental school....

so there's that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good op-ed by the president of Brown in Sunday NY Times. She explains how and why colleges should reopen in the fall. Thoughtful approach from a top college president, who also has public health expertise.

The point of her essay was that colleges must reopen because they need the tuition money, otherwise too many schools will go under. Then she set out a plan of testing, tracing and isolating. But the problem is that any school which needs fall tuition money to stay afloat isn't going to have the extra money and resources to enact such a plan.

Here's the link

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/26/opinion/coronavirus-colleges-universities.html?searchResultPosition=2

[Anonymous]

Tweet from Spivey

https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult/status/1258405614067335168

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tweet from Spivey

https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult/status/1258405614067335168

I don't know if Spivey is just not very good (never heard of them) or if people just shouldn't try to tweet complex information in one sentence, but that tweet is almost meaningless due to so many potential interpretations. As I suspected, the least apocalyptic interpretation is the correct one. It appears a decline started after the COVID scare (before lockdowns in most places), and since that decline started, it has doubled. The overall effect is really not that huge - a 4.7% decrease over last year, as can be more clearly seen in this much better tweet:

https://twitter.com/BillDeBaun/status/1258029365801205762?s=20

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tweet from Spivey

https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult/status/1258405614067335168

I don't know if Spivey is just not very good (never heard of them) or if people just shouldn't try to tweet complex information in one sentence, but that tweet is almost meaningless due to so many potential interpretations. As I suspected, the least apocalyptic interpretation is the correct one. It appears a decline started after the COVID scare (before lockdowns in most places), and since that decline started, it has doubled. The overall effect is really not that huge - a 4.7% decrease over last year, as can be more clearly seen in this much better tweet:

https://twitter.com/BillDeBaun/status/1258029365801205762?s=20

DP: Thanks! This thread was very informative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just heard from our uni for the first time. The admin is completely deluded. There will be 3 semesters to reduce density, students will be quarantined along the lines of the oped, we can trust the students to protect the community by social distancing and wearing face coverings. Nobody asked the faculty if they are willing to spread their teaching over 3 semesters, or if students will be happy with 3 semesters...and everything will have to be prepared for online and in person instruction. But no worries, our teaching loads are not increasing.
It's pretty obvious that their committee on reopening consisted almost entirely of administrators, not teaching faculty...Other unis have apparently surveyed faculty about their comfort teaching in person, their health conditions etc. Nothing here so far - just decisions by admins removed from education. Oh and only 1/3 of our faculty are in an at risk age group (what to they consider at risk?).
What I think will happen is that we start out with this plan, a huge outbreak inevitably occurs so that we move online again, and then both students and faculty are stuck with this moronic 3 semester layout, but online! The worst of both worlds.

You're faculty, right? I'm sorry they didn't consult with faculty because that sounds like an absolute must in this situation. How devaluing of faculty, not to include them in the decision.

I know this site and I know someone else will come to ask this so I'll just go ahead and do it: Can you name the university? I get that you might not want to. I wouldn't. Can you at least tell us -- what size school is it and is it in the US? (You referred to it as "uni" which I hear done by people in the UK and Canada but less here.)

I am asking not because I think it's my own kid's college but because I'd like to get a bead on what size your university is just for comparison. Is summer supposed to be the third semester? Are all three semesters shorter? That would be more like my own undergrad with three quarters Sept-June and the fourth quarter being summer -- that's not "semesters" at all and you'd have to cut the number of classes in a student's class load if you have much shorter "semesters." ??

And I agree that your employer is insane to think that students are going to wear masks and practice social distancing for long or in any meaningful way. They still have to share dorm rooms, bathrooms, dining halls, etc., right? That alone -- forget classrooms -- will cause the virus to spread. I would not blame any faculty member, administrator or staff member who quit as these kinds of wildly stupid plans emerge.

PP here. We are a top private school in the US in an urban location, with a student population on the order of 10K. The semesters will all be regular length, with a summer semester. Vacations would apparently be cut short or eliminated. But we haven't heard the details yet on dates. Each student would attend 2/3 semesters in person.

I'm sorry that they didn't consult you, but you also sound whiney. Everyone has a choice. You can get a job elsewhere. Right, it's not that easy right now. That's why administrators are trying to do what they can for the good of the institution, not just you.