"I didn't run you over, so you need to calm down!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is like talking to a wall. The drivers have to stop because they are going to have a red light, however, make sure everyone is fully stopped before you listen to your walk signal. I see pedestrians do crazy stuff, as if they are wearing a shield of armor

Yes, it is like talking to a wall. I am going to put this in all caps for emphasis: TELLING PEDESTRIANS TO BE CAREFUL DOES NOT INCREASE PEDESTRIAN SAFETY.

If you want to increase pedestrian safety, start advocating for stuff THAT ACTUALLY WORKS.

So looking both ways and paying attention according to you has NO impact in safety. OK

TELLING PEOPLE to look both ways and pay attention has as much impact on actual safety for actual pedestrians as TELLING PEOPLE to eat broccoli and limit salt has on the actual healthfulness of actual people's diets.

When people get killed while walking, it's not because they didn't look both ways and didn't pay attention. It's because they were trying to walk in places where walking is dangerous, due to bad road design, distracted drivers, and SUVs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is like talking to a wall. The drivers have to stop because they are going to have a red light, however, make sure everyone is fully stopped before you listen to your walk signal. I see pedestrians do crazy stuff, as if they are wearing a shield of armor

Yes, it is like talking to a wall. I am going to put this in all caps for emphasis: TELLING PEDESTRIANS TO BE CAREFUL DOES NOT INCREASE PEDESTRIAN SAFETY.

If you want to increase pedestrian safety, start advocating for stuff THAT ACTUALLY WORKS.

So looking both ways and paying attention according to you has NO impact in safety. OK

TELLING PEOPLE to look both ways and pay attention has as much impact on actual safety for actual pedestrians as TELLING PEOPLE to eat broccoli and limit salt has on the actual healthfulness of actual people's diets.

When people get killed while walking, it's not because they didn't look both ways and didn't pay attention. It's because they were trying to walk in places where walking is dangerous, due to bad road design, distracted drivers, and SUVs.

You can’t have it both ways. You blame all pedestrian accidents on drivers but then say drivers are faultless too even if they aren’t driving defensively. If you had any sense you would walk and drive defensively. It does make a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is like talking to a wall. The drivers have to stop because they are going to have a red light, however, make sure everyone is fully stopped before you listen to your walk signal. I see pedestrians do crazy stuff, as if they are wearing a shield of armor

Yes, it is like talking to a wall. I am going to put this in all caps for emphasis: TELLING PEDESTRIANS TO BE CAREFUL DOES NOT INCREASE PEDESTRIAN SAFETY.

If you want to increase pedestrian safety, start advocating for stuff THAT ACTUALLY WORKS.

So looking both ways and paying attention according to you has NO impact in safety. OK

TELLING PEOPLE to look both ways and pay attention has as much impact on actual safety for actual pedestrians as TELLING PEOPLE to eat broccoli and limit salt has on the actual healthfulness of actual people's diets.

When people get killed while walking, it's not because they didn't look both ways and didn't pay attention. It's because they were trying to walk in places where walking is dangerous, due to bad road design, distracted drivers, and SUVs.

You can’t have it both ways. You blame all pedestrian accidents on drivers but then say drivers are faultless too even if they aren’t driving defensively. If you had any sense you would walk and drive defensively. It does make a difference.

If you enjoy placing blame rather than looking at the data and trying to fix the problems, then go right ahead and keep doing what you're doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is like talking to a wall. The drivers have to stop because they are going to have a red light, however, make sure everyone is fully stopped before you listen to your walk signal. I see pedestrians do crazy stuff, as if they are wearing a shield of armor

Yes, it is like talking to a wall. I am going to put this in all caps for emphasis: TELLING PEDESTRIANS TO BE CAREFUL DOES NOT INCREASE PEDESTRIAN SAFETY.

If you want to increase pedestrian safety, start advocating for stuff THAT ACTUALLY WORKS.

So looking both ways and paying attention according to you has NO impact in safety. OK

TELLING PEOPLE to look both ways and pay attention has as much impact on actual safety for actual pedestrians as TELLING PEOPLE to eat broccoli and limit salt has on the actual healthfulness of actual people's diets.

When people get killed while walking, it's not because they didn't look both ways and didn't pay attention. It's because they were trying to walk in places where walking is dangerous, due to bad road design, distracted drivers, and SUVs.

You can’t have it both ways. You have blame all pedestrian accidents on drivers but then say drivers are faultless too even if they aren’t driving defensively. If you had any sense you would walk and drive defensively. It

If you enjoy placing blame rather than looking at the data and trying to fix the problems, then go right ahead and keep doing what you're doing.

People make mistakes. What you want to look for in data is how to prevent people from making the same mistakes. Not denying they made any. If you ignore the mistake aspect your data won’t be as effective. Like the school training program. It works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

People make mistakes. What you want to look for in data is how to prevent people from making the same mistakes. Not denying they made any. If you ignore the mistake aspect your data won’t be as effective. Like the school training program. It works.

What you want to look for in the data is where and how people get killed.

More walking has increased exposure, as one survey1 estimated that the number of Americans walking to work in the past week increased about four percent between 2007 and 2016;

Most pedestrian fatalities take place on local roads, at night, away from intersections, suggesting the need for safer road crossings. Over the past 10 years, nighttime crashes accounted for more than 90 percent of the total increase in pedestrian deaths;

Many unsafe driving behaviors, such as speeding, distracted and drowsy driving, pose risks to pedestrians, and alcohol impairment by the driver and/or pedestrian was reported in about half of traffic crashes that resulted in pedestrian fatalities in 2017; and

Finally, the number of sport utility vehicles (SUVs) involved in pedestrian deaths has increased by 50 percent since 2013. By comparison, (non-SUV) passenger cars’ involvement in pedestrian fatalities increased by 30 percent over the same time period. Although passenger cars still account for the majority of pedestrian deaths, SUVs – which generally cause more severe pedestrian injuries – make up an increasingly large percentage of registered vehicles.

https://www.ghsa.org/resources/news-releases/pedestrians19

You're assuming that people get killed while walking because they made mistakes, and that if we can get people to stop making mistakes, they won't get killed. The first assumption is invalid, the second assumption is hopeless. People make mistakes. Mistakes shouldn't have to be fatal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

People make mistakes. What you want to look for in data is how to prevent people from making the same mistakes. Not denying they made any. If you ignore the mistake aspect your data won’t be as effective. Like the school training program. It works.

What you want to look for in the data is where and how people get killed.

More walking has increased exposure, as one survey1 estimated that the number of Americans walking to work in the past week increased about four percent between 2007 and 2016;

Most pedestrian fatalities take place on local roads, at night, away from intersections, suggesting the need for safer road crossings. Over the past 10 years, nighttime crashes accounted for more than 90 percent of the total increase in pedestrian deaths;

Many unsafe driving behaviors, such as speeding, distracted and drowsy driving, pose risks to pedestrians, and alcohol impairment by the driver and/or pedestrian was reported in about half of traffic crashes that resulted in pedestrian fatalities in 2017; and

Finally, the number of sport utility vehicles (SUVs) involved in pedestrian deaths has increased by 50 percent since 2013. By comparison, (non-SUV) passenger cars’ involvement in pedestrian fatalities increased by 30 percent over the same time period. Although passenger cars still account for the majority of pedestrian deaths, SUVs – which generally cause more severe pedestrian injuries – make up an increasingly large percentage of registered vehicles.

https://www.ghsa.org/resources/news-releases/pedestrians19

You're assuming that people get killed while walking because they made mistakes, and that if we can get people to stop making mistakes, they won't get killed. The first assumption is invalid, the second assumption is hopeless. People make mistakes. Mistakes shouldn't have to be fatal.

Mistakes are fatal all the time. Accidents are the third leading cause of death. You've gotta have some sense. Everyone would like to live in a world where no one was ever hit by a car and a baby never drowned but that isn't going to happen so we put up a pool fence AND watch your baby. No one has yet come up with an answer to where on earth the BILLIONS of dollars would come from to change the roads to save like 6K people a year. It sounds awful but from a cost/benefit perspective it just doesn't make sense. Not as long as there is cancer and hungry children and hundreds of thousands dying from opioids. So probably best to keep your head up and on a swivel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Mistakes are fatal all the time. Accidents are the third leading cause of death. You've gotta have some sense. Everyone would like to live in a world where no one was ever hit by a car and a baby never drowned but that isn't going to happen so we put up a pool fence AND watch your baby. No one has yet come up with an answer to where on earth the BILLIONS of dollars would come from to change the roads to save like 6K people a year. It sounds awful but from a cost/benefit perspective it just doesn't make sense. Not as long as there is cancer and hungry children and hundreds of thousands dying from opioids. So probably best to keep your head up and on a swivel.

Where did the BILLIONS of dollars come from to build those roads in the first place?

You're saying that we have to keep on having roads that kill pedestrians because it's too expensive to change them. Tell that to the parents of 14-year-old Kamal Nashid, who was killed in Prince George's County last week. Neighbors had been saying for years that the road was dangerous, but the people in charge evidently agreed with you, and now he's dead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Mistakes are fatal all the time. Accidents are the third leading cause of death. You've gotta have some sense. Everyone would like to live in a world where no one was ever hit by a car and a baby never drowned but that isn't going to happen so we put up a pool fence AND watch your baby. No one has yet come up with an answer to where on earth the BILLIONS of dollars would come from to change the roads to save like 6K people a year. It sounds awful but from a cost/benefit perspective it just doesn't make sense. Not as long as there is cancer and hungry children and hundreds of thousands dying from opioids. So probably best to keep your head up and on a swivel.

Where did the BILLIONS of dollars come from to build those roads in the first place?

You're saying that we have to keep on having roads that kill pedestrians because it's too expensive to change them. Tell that to the parents of 14-year-old Kamal Nashid, who was killed in Prince George's County last week. Neighbors had been saying for years that the road was dangerous, but the people in charge evidently agreed with you, and now he's dead.

No one is saying it isn't terrible, but it isn't going to happen. We don't have enough money to build a utopia and as long as humans are involved there will be genuine mistakes and totally asshole moves. You can put a light in at an egregiously dangerous intersection here and there but you cannot make every intersection perfectly safe for pedestrians. And yes, I'd rather spend the money curing cancer. I suppose we could get the billions from our military industrial complex but we know that will never stop either. It is an unpleasant truth. So rage against the wind all you want. It won't change a thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Mistakes are fatal all the time. Accidents are the third leading cause of death. You've gotta have some sense. Everyone would like to live in a world where no one was ever hit by a car and a baby never drowned but that isn't going to happen so we put up a pool fence AND watch your baby. No one has yet come up with an answer to where on earth the BILLIONS of dollars would come from to change the roads to save like 6K people a year. It sounds awful but from a cost/benefit perspective it just doesn't make sense. Not as long as there is cancer and hungry children and hundreds of thousands dying from opioids. So probably best to keep your head up and on a swivel.

Where did the BILLIONS of dollars come from to build those roads in the first place?

You're saying that we have to keep on having roads that kill pedestrians because it's too expensive to change them. Tell that to the parents of 14-year-old Kamal Nashid, who was killed in Prince George's County last week. Neighbors had been saying for years that the road was dangerous, but the people in charge evidently agreed with you, and now he's dead.

No one is saying it isn't terrible, but it isn't going to happen. We don't have enough money to build a utopia and as long as humans are involved there will be genuine mistakes and totally asshole moves. You can put a light in at an egregiously dangerous intersection here and there but you cannot make every intersection perfectly safe for pedestrians. And yes, I'd rather spend the money curing cancer. I suppose we could get the billions from our military industrial complex but we know that will never stop either. It is an unpleasant truth. So rage against the wind all you want. It won't change a thing.

Before you start opining about things that are or aren't going to happen, please learn about what it takes to make roads safe for pedestrians.

And yes, people make mistakes. So we need to make sure that when people make mistakes, the consequence isn't death or serious injury. Can it be done? Yes, it can be done. Other countries do it, we can too. It starts with us saying that 40,000+ deaths in traffic every year is unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Mistakes are fatal all the time. Accidents are the third leading cause of death. You've gotta have some sense. Everyone would like to live in a world where no one was ever hit by a car and a baby never drowned but that isn't going to happen so we put up a pool fence AND watch your baby. No one has yet come up with an answer to where on earth the BILLIONS of dollars would come from to change the roads to save like 6K people a year. It sounds awful but from a cost/benefit perspective it just doesn't make sense. Not as long as there is cancer and hungry children and hundreds of thousands dying from opioids. So probably best to keep your head up and on a swivel.

Where did the BILLIONS of dollars come from to build those roads in the first place?

You're saying that we have to keep on having roads that kill pedestrians because it's too expensive to change them. Tell that to the parents of 14-year-old Kamal Nashid, who was killed in Prince George's County last week. Neighbors had been saying for years that the road was dangerous, but the people in charge evidently agreed with you, and now he's dead.

No one is saying it isn't terrible, but it isn't going to happen. We don't have enough money to build a utopia and as long as humans are involved there will be genuine mistakes and totally asshole moves. You can put a light in at an egregiously dangerous intersection here and there but you cannot make every intersection perfectly safe for pedestrians. And yes, I'd rather spend the money curing cancer. I suppose we could get the billions from our military industrial complex but we know that will never stop either. It is an unpleasant truth. So rage against the wind all you want. It won't change a thing.

Before you start opining about things that are or aren't going to happen, please learn about what it takes to make roads safe for pedestrians.

And yes, people make mistakes. So we need to make sure that when people make mistakes, the consequence isn't death or serious injury. Can it be done? Yes, it can be done. Other countries do it, we can too. It starts with us saying that 40,000+ deaths in traffic every year is unacceptable.

Only 6k pedestrians died in the US last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Mistakes are fatal all the time. Accidents are the third leading cause of death. You've gotta have some sense. Everyone would like to live in a world where no one was ever hit by a car and a baby never drowned but that isn't going to happen so we put up a pool fence AND watch your baby. No one has yet come up with an answer to where on earth the BILLIONS of dollars would come from to change the roads to save like 6K people a year. It sounds awful but from a cost/benefit perspective it just doesn't make sense. Not as long as there is cancer and hungry children and hundreds of thousands dying from opioids. So probably best to keep your head up and on a swivel.

Where did the BILLIONS of dollars come from to build those roads in the first place?

You're saying that we have to keep on having roads that kill pedestrians because it's too expensive to change them. Tell that to the parents of 14-year-old Kamal Nashid, who was killed in Prince George's County last week. Neighbors had been saying for years that the road was dangerous, but the people in charge evidently agreed with you, and now he's dead.

No one is saying it isn't terrible, but it isn't going to happen. We don't have enough money to build a utopia and as long as humans are involved there will be genuine mistakes and totally asshole moves. You can put a light in at an egregiously dangerous intersection here and there but you cannot make every intersection perfectly safe for pedestrians. And yes, I'd rather spend the money curing cancer. I suppose we could get the billions from our military industrial complex but we know that will never stop either. It is an unpleasant truth. So rage against the wind all you want. It won't change a thing.

Before you start opining about things that are or aren't going to happen, please learn about what it takes to make roads safe for pedestrians.

And yes, people make mistakes. So we need to make sure that when people make mistakes, the consequence isn't death or serious injury. Can it be done? Yes, it can be done. Other countries do it, we can too. It starts with us saying that 40,000+ deaths in traffic every year is unacceptable.

Only 6k pedestrians died in the US last year.

About 40,000 people died in traffic last year, of whom "only" 6,227 were pedestrians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Mistakes are fatal all the time. Accidents are the third leading cause of death. You've gotta have some sense. Everyone would like to live in a world where no one was ever hit by a car and a baby never drowned but that isn't going to happen so we put up a pool fence AND watch your baby. No one has yet come up with an answer to where on earth the BILLIONS of dollars would come from to change the roads to save like 6K people a year. It sounds awful but from a cost/benefit perspective it just doesn't make sense. Not as long as there is cancer and hungry children and hundreds of thousands dying from opioids. So probably best to keep your head up and on a swivel.

Where did the BILLIONS of dollars come from to build those roads in the first place?

You're saying that we have to keep on having roads that kill pedestrians because it's too expensive to change them. Tell that to the parents of 14-year-old Kamal Nashid, who was killed in Prince George's County last week. Neighbors had been saying for years that the road was dangerous, but the people in charge evidently agreed with you, and now he's dead.

No one is saying it isn't terrible, but it isn't going to happen. We don't have enough money to build a utopia and as long as humans are involved there will be genuine mistakes and totally asshole moves. You can put a light in at an egregiously dangerous intersection here and there but you cannot make every intersection perfectly safe for pedestrians. And yes, I'd rather spend the money curing cancer. I suppose we could get the billions from our military industrial complex but we know that will never stop either. It is an unpleasant truth. So rage against the wind all you want. It won't change a thing.

Before you start opining about things that are or aren't going to happen, please learn about what it takes to make roads safe for pedestrians.

And yes, people make mistakes. So we need to make sure that when people make mistakes, the consequence isn't death or serious injury. Can it be done? Yes, it can be done. Other countries do it, we can too. It starts with us saying that 40,000+ deaths in traffic every year is unacceptable.

Only 6k pedestrians died in the US last year.

About 40,000 people died in traffic last year, of whom "only" 6,227 were pedestrians.

You telling people not to bother looking both ways or paying attention to cars approaching an intersection in traffic isn’t helping reduce that number.

Of course we should make changes to bad roadways, but that won’t prevent deaths caused by negligence by pedestrians and drivers.

My aunt killed a child who ran across a road. She was so traumatized that she still doesn’t drive 40 years later. The police investigation revealed she did nothing wrong. He just darted across the road in front of her, popped out from behind woods so she couldn’t see him and slow down. She had no chance of avoiding him. Tragic, but not her fault. She still has to live with the memory.

It is impossible to reduce the number to zero. We can improve it so we should embrace road AND vigilance training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You telling people not to bother looking both ways or paying attention to cars approaching an intersection in traffic isn’t helping reduce that number.

Of course we should make changes to bad roadways, but that won’t prevent deaths caused by negligence by pedestrians and drivers.

My aunt killed a child who ran across a road. She was so traumatized that she still doesn’t drive 40 years later. The police investigation revealed she did nothing wrong. He just darted across the road in front of her, popped out from behind woods so she couldn’t see him and slow down. She had no chance of avoiding him. Tragic, but not her fault. She still has to live with the memory.

It is impossible to reduce the number to zero. We can improve it so we should embrace road AND vigilance training.

There's a meaningful difference between "Telling people to look both ways doesn't save lives" and "Hey, people! Don't bother to look both ways!"

If your aunt had been driving more slowly, she would have had more of a chance to the child and stop. People don't "pop out" of nowhere - but the faster you're driving, the more your peripheral vision narrows, and the more it seems as though they do. That's not her fault, it's the fault of the highway engineers who, for the last 80 years, have prioritized driving fast over human life. If the roads aren't safe for children, the roads aren't safe.

[Anonymous]

^^^more of a chance to see the child and stop

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

People make mistakes. What you want to look for in data is how to prevent people from making the same mistakes. Not denying they made any. If you ignore the mistake aspect your data won’t be as effective. Like the school training program. It works.

What you want to look for in the data is where and how people get killed.

More walking has increased exposure, as one survey1 estimated that the number of Americans walking to work in the past week increased about four percent between 2007 and 2016;

Most pedestrian fatalities take place on local roads, at night, away from intersections, suggesting the need for safer road crossings. Over the past 10 years, nighttime crashes accounted for more than 90 percent of the total increase in pedestrian deaths;

Many unsafe driving behaviors, such as speeding, distracted and drowsy driving, pose risks to pedestrians, and alcohol impairment by the driver and/or pedestrian was reported in about half of traffic crashes that resulted in pedestrian fatalities in 2017; and

Finally, the number of sport utility vehicles (SUVs) involved in pedestrian deaths has increased by 50 percent since 2013. By comparison, (non-SUV) passenger cars’ involvement in pedestrian fatalities increased by 30 percent over the same time period. Although passenger cars still account for the majority of pedestrian deaths, SUVs – which generally cause more severe pedestrian injuries – make up an increasingly large percentage of registered vehicles.

https://www.ghsa.org/resources/news-releases/pedestrians19

You're assuming that people get killed while walking because they made mistakes, and that if we can get people to stop making mistakes, they won't get killed. The first assumption is invalid, the second assumption is hopeless. People make mistakes. Mistakes shouldn't have to be fatal.

I see pedestrians all the time darting in front of traffic, thinking they are invincible. Pedestrians can help save their own lives by making sure cars are stopping before starting their crossing