I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

+1
Another option is that MCPS could have made students from the W schools (proxy for wealthy white/Asian schools) ineligible for the magnets since the peer group is presumably higher achieving.

It's a terrible proxy for Asian-American students. The majority of Asian-American students in MCPS don't live in Bethesda or Potomac.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really bothered by the propaganda that deflects away from the fact that they changed the criteria not to get the most qualified students but to get the demographic profile of the students that they wanted. This is just wrong. Its been stated again and again that no one objects to universal testing, people object moving admission away from merit based and toward racial profiling. Yet again and again the MCPS PR booster will try to float in that the only change was universal testing. This simply isn't true and you should stop lying.

I think the universal testing has affected the process more than the peer cohorts. Their kid not being invited because she has a cohort Is just easier for parents to swallow than “they scored high, but not high enough”, which is what a lot of posted cogat results are showing. 99 percentile nationally but only 86th percentile MCPS? Universal testing is turning up more bright students.

If MCPS would just publish their accepted student Median score as they used to, people will believe you more on this. As it is all we hear is that the magnet program now has more diversity in abilities now. What conclusion should we make?

I get how this has become an us versus them issue but MCPS has not said the new system is turning up more bright students. What they have said on the subject is what PP said which is that it is turning up more diversity in abilities and that teachers have been trained how how to help these students who may face some challenges. It implied some students accepted in to the program may need some extra help. If someone has the exact wording please post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm getting really, really tired of the "MCPS is stealing my deserving kid's spot and giving it to an undeserving black/brown/poor kid with no-count parents!" thing.

Yet that exactly what they keep doing. Putting in diversity candidates with lower test scores. Opposite of merit based.

If MCPS wanted to shut everyone up, they’d released scrubbed data of who was accepted last year and this year.

So the white parent on another thread who disclosed that her kid got in this year with a MCPS average in the 70s from a W feeder is a "diversity candidate?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really bothered by the propaganda that deflects away from the fact that they changed the criteria not to get the most qualified students but to get the demographic profile of the students that they wanted. This is just wrong. Its been stated again and again that no one objects to universal testing, people object moving admission away from merit based and toward racial profiling. Yet again and again the MCPS PR booster will try to float in that the only change was universal testing. This simply isn't true and you should stop lying.

I think the universal testing has affected the process more than the peer cohorts. Their kid not being invited because she has a cohort Is just easier for parents to swallow than “they scored high, but not high enough”, which is what a lot of posted cogat results are showing. 99 percentile nationally but only 86th percentile MCPS? Universal testing is turning up more bright students.

If MCPS would just publish their accepted student Median score as they used to, people will believe you more on this. As it is all we hear is that the magnet program now has more diversity in abilities now. What conclusion should we make?

I get how this has become an us versus them issue but MCPS has not said the new system is turning up more bright students. What they have said on the subject is what PP said which is that it is turning up more diversity in abilities and that teachers have been trained how how to help these students who may face some challenges. It implied some students accepted in to the program may need some extra help. If someone has the exact wording please post.

Actually they have. Did you not see the list of "highly able" students per MS uncovered by the first year of universal screening? The number of highly able students found under universal screening is larger than the total pool of applicants under the old system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think the universal testing has affected the process more than the peer cohorts.

Except it didn't.

MCPS determined a % (95%) that it deemed highly capable and the universal testing revealed extremely large % of white students who met that criteria beyond the % that had applied in the past. If MCPS had selected from the larger group and offered seats to students who performed the highest out of the highly capable group they would have ended up with a magnet in a DCC school filled with white and asian kids primarily from the W schools.

The goal was to get the magnet demographic to more closely reflect the overall demographics of the student population. The problem is that there is a significant gap in academic performance between the demographics. Any attempt to make the magnets look like the overall population needs to stop looking at merit or lower the standard and make up other criteria which is what they did. This is an interesting problem. How do you increase participation in the magnets by URM students when you legally can't appear to be using racial assignments even though this your intent?

There were many better options that MCPS could have pursued:

1. Be honest about what you are doing. Implement universal testing and make the numbers public. Get rid of the special TP spots and increase overall # of spots to open up more seats. Provide extra points for students who are FARMS and minorities. This is legal and has been done in other school systems.

2. Expand the GT program to include the level 1 magnets for the very top performing students regardless of race or geographic location and position these in schools where high performing students are clustered. For all other schools provide a level 2 GT track that serves the 95%-97% students.

3. Create a URM GT track in ES that includes intensive summer and after school options to get more URM students up to the level of the white and asian kids in the west.

+1
Another option is that MCPS could have made students from the W schools (proxy for wealthy white/Asian schools) ineligible for the magnets since the peer group is presumably higher achieving.

Well that's what they did and it was a bad move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think the universal testing has affected the process more than the peer cohorts.

Except it didn't.

MCPS determined a % (95%) that it deemed highly capable and the universal testing revealed extremely large % of white students who met that criteria beyond the % that had applied in the past. If MCPS had selected from the larger group and offered seats to students who performed the highest out of the highly capable group they would have ended up with a magnet in a DCC school filled with white and asian kids primarily from the W schools.

The goal was to get the magnet demographic to more closely reflect the overall demographics of the student population. The problem is that there is a significant gap in academic performance between the demographics. Any attempt to make the magnets look like the overall population needs to stop looking at merit or lower the standard and make up other criteria which is what they did. This is an interesting problem. How do you increase participation in the magnets by URM students when you legally can't appear to be using racial assignments even though this your intent?

There were many better options that MCPS could have pursued:

1. Be honest about what you are doing. Implement universal testing and make the numbers public. Get rid of the special TP spots and increase overall # of spots to open up more seats. Provide extra points for students who are FARMS and minorities. This is legal and has been done in other school systems.

2. Expand the GT program to include the level 1 magnets for the very top performing students regardless of race or geographic location and position these in schools where high performing students are clustered. For all other schools provide a level 2 GT track that serves the 95%-97% students.

3. Create a URM GT track in ES that includes intensive summer and after school options to get more URM students up to the level of the white and asian kids in the west.

+1
Also I love your last suggestion Having a robust GT program in all low performing ESs is the best way of nurturing students who might not be getting enough enrichment at home.
I would even support a less rigorous application process for the CES to make sure no one is overlooked. Once you get to the MS and especially HS level you can’t mess with the application criteria without creating inequities and increasing the likelihood that the programs will get watered down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really bothered by the propaganda that deflects away from the fact that they changed the criteria not to get the most qualified students but to get the demographic profile of the students that they wanted. This is just wrong. Its been stated again and again that no one objects to universal testing, people object moving admission away from merit based and toward racial profiling. Yet again and again the MCPS PR booster will try to float in that the only change was universal testing. This simply isn't true and you should stop lying.

I think the universal testing has affected the process more than the peer cohorts. Their kid not being invited because she has a cohort Is just easier for parents to swallow than “they scored high, but not high enough”, which is what a lot of posted cogat results are showing. 99 percentile nationally but only 86th percentile MCPS? Universal testing is turning up more bright students.

It's easier for some parents to feel victimized than accept there were more qualified applicants than theirs, but at least in my experience as a TPMS magnet parent, your assessment seems true.

I agree, the stories posted this year sound completely different. Instead of people talking about across the board 99s that were rejected and assuming those were due to cohort, there are people asking how their child has always tested 99 and "bombed" the magnet test. Difference this year is the MCPS percentiles that better distinguish between scores. It doesn't sound like many with high MCPS percentiles were shut out, at least they aren't as vocal, and last year they were very vocal. The breakdown of who was applying to the magnet before universal screening is eyeopening. Yes, perhaps that means those parents weren't doing all they could for their kids, but it also means the families who did apply, had a much better chance under the old system. And sorry, it's entirely possible for a family that never would have applied before, to nonetheless fully support their student once they attend.

[Anonymous]

+1
Also I love your last suggestion Having a robust GT program in all low performing ESs is the best way of nurturing students who might not be getting enough enrichment at home.
I would even support a less rigorous application process for the CES to make sure no one is overlooked. Once you get to the MS and especially HS level you can’t mess with the application criteria without creating inequities and increasing the likelihood that the programs will get watered down

Exactly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year, when it's the first time to apply universal screening and the cohort idea to the MS GT admission, I 100% sure that the idea of expansion of two GT course curricula to local MSs was not mentioned at all in the beginning. It was after the selection results were published and parents got furious that AEI brought up this idea, so they were not prepared at all, and teachers were not got trained of the curriculum until the end of the summer. Everything was in a hassle, all in order to calm down the furious parents. Hopefully this year they could be more prepared and let the expansion of GT curriculum really going on in the "cohort" MSs.

I was also at the same meetings and they did mention that they would increase access to GT curriculum, it was on the slide at the meeting at Blair (2 years ago). They didn't go in depth explaining what that meant, but it was there.

Yes, and it was stated in one of their early documents prior to the selection process.

I remember this as well. It was mentioned in the presentation and in something in writing. The details weren't as clear as they are now, but the idea was certainly shared.

[Anonymous]

OMG! What bull! Stop trying to make up things and see if it sticks!!

Everyone within MCPS was shocked when the central office pulled the new "enriched classes" out of their behinds. The principals and teachers were incredibly pissed off that this was sprung out of no where. It created a huge problem in the middle schools with the rejected high performing cohorts. Do you really think for one second that principals and teachers are going to play along with your new spin idea? NO WAY

[Anonymous]

Hahaha. Nope

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG! What bull! Stop trying to make up things and see if it sticks!!

Everyone within MCPS was shocked when the central office pulled the new "enriched classes" out of their behinds. The principals and teachers were incredibly pissed off that this was sprung out of no where. It created a huge problem in the middle schools with the rejected high performing cohorts. Do you really think for one second that principals and teachers are going to play along with your new spin idea? NO WAY

Oh, go back and look at last year's discussion Same thing most people didn't hear it but a few did, and the slides, which were still available, backed them up. Does that mean the new classes were ready to go and rolled out smoothly? NO, but who's surprised there. Part of universal screening was to identifying more talent. Why does it need to be argued anyway? The classes were needed and at least they're starting to happen, it's better than nothing, which is what the homeschools used to offer.

[Anonymous]

If MCPS would just publish their accepted student Median score as they used to, people will believe you more on this. As it is all we hear is that the magnet program now has more diversity in abilities now. What conclusion should we make?

Test scores don’t necessarily indicate which students are most in need of the magnet programs, especially when some students have prepped to varying degrees for the test and some have done no prep at all. The scores are simply not as useful or reliable in terms of indicating ability or potential on the part of students when those evaluating the scores do not know whether and how much any particular child has been prepped in advance for the test.

It’s good that MCPS does not rely exclusively on test scores to make these decisions and takes other information into account.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG! What bull! Stop trying to make up things and see if it sticks!!

Everyone within MCPS was shocked when the central office pulled the new "enriched classes" out of their behinds. The principals and teachers were incredibly pissed off that this was sprung out of no where. It created a huge problem in the middle schools with the rejected high performing cohorts. Do you really think for one second that principals and teachers are going to play along with your new spin idea? NO WAY

I saw it and heard it at the meeting. I and others posted last year, which is searchable. Also, I and I assume the other posters that saw it aren't arguing that MCPS didn't tell teachers and principals the plan. MCPS is dysfunctional, not arguing that point. What most likely happened is that they mentioned it in passing at the meeting and put the info on the slide to do their due diligence just in case someone complained/tried to sue and they could come back and say MCPS was being transparent. Not arguing that what they did was right, but I prefer to discuss issues based on facts.

[Anonymous]

MCPS is not very good at keeping anything secret. Central office did not have a carefully laid out plan for enriched classes that it chose to hide from the local schools until just the right last moment. They are so stupid and insular that it didn't occur to them that their backsides would get badly burned by changing the magnet criteria from highest performers to racially selected admits. The sudden roll out of enriched classes were grasping at straws to cover themselves.

Now long term -yes internally MCPS has not been secret or quiet about wanting to end the magnets all together and move to enriched home school (cough cough -same watered down honors classes that you see now).