Ivy League results so far? who is making it in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to pull it all together with the "profoundly gifted" student who is in at Penn and Princeton, if that poster is not a troll, I'm assuming that the "formal letter" referred to is a "likely letter" from Penn not related to athletics. The written statement from the coach, which is not binding, would be indicating that the kid can play his sport at Penn as a walk on. The potential choice of Swarthmore over the other options is too confusing for me to make sense of. It's definitely not a place a serious athlete would pick over Princeton or Penn.

Further, no "profoundly gifted" student would choose Swarthmore over Princeton. Penn? Meh

My guess is that the very top SLACs are picked over Ivies, including Princeton, fairly often. At the Swarthmore, Williiams, Amherst level, I assume that happens fairly often---and i can see the attraction of those schools with a couple thousand intense undergrads as the entire campus versus some big research university with five to ten times as many students.

Probably not as many as you think. Especially against HYPS. I'd think no more than a handful, if money wasn't a factor.

Research opportunities are far better at Princeton than Swarthmore. No knock on Swarthmore as it's a fantastic school, but there's a reason Princeton is Princeton and Swarthmore is not. For anyone wanting the benefits of a school with a strong undergraduate focus but with the stellar research and faculty of a larger university you'd be really silly to turn down Princeton for Swarthmore. For the same reason someone wanting to play higher caliber (recruitment quality) sports in college would be silly to turn down either Penn or Swarthmore for Princeton.

Maybe your kid is the Swattie model and will fit in with Swarthmore perfectly and that calls to him over Princeton, but one does then wonder why he didn't apply ED to start with. Otherwise just be realistic about what Swarthmore can offer that Princeton doesn't. And, of course, let's see if Swarthmore does accept him because if he isn't an African American genius then there's no guarantees. Swarthmore may write him off as a lost cause, someone most likely to be accepted by an Ivy and this reject him to protect their yield.

As a professor, I think that this is a false comparison. Swarthmore is solely focued on undergraduates, whereas at Princeton undergraduates compete with graduate students for faculty time. Also, the culture at Swarthmore is much more academic than Princeton. According to the NSF, a significantly higher percentage of Swarthmore students end up getting PhDs compared to Princeton. (Swarthmore with nearly 23% of alum eventually earning PhDs is #3 according to the NSF; Princeton falls just outside the top 10 at #11 with 14%.) Swarthmore is well known among PhD programs as a top caliber feeder into doctoral programs. Princeton students do well, of course, but with the exception of a few majors (e.g., math) students don't choose Princeton because they're planning on getting PhDs. Students who do plan on competing a doctorate OTOH do choose Swarthmore--or Reed, Carleton. The best SLACs do a superior job of getting their students into doctoral programs.

Carleton is #1 in this regard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale EA. Top of class at Montgomery County public school (not a W), top test scores, outstanding extracurriculars including fluent Mandarin and Spanish, published political papers, varsity sports letter, several jazz bands, NASA internship etc.

Adding--totally unaffiliated with Yale. No legacy ties or relations and no minority status.

Stop trying to draw attention to your cute little story. No one has commented on it because no one believes it.

[Anonymous]

I believe it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:DS is in at Princeton and Penn. Waiting on ther others. He's profoundly gifted. We assume he'll get in everywhere, but may head to Swarthmore instead.

Cough cough. BS. Cough cough. Penn is ED.

Exactly - you are not allowed to apply SCEA to Princeton and ED to Penn.

One of them is a written statement from a coach that he's in. The other is formal letter.

Good try but didn't cut the mustard.

If your kid is being recruited by one of the schools for a sport to the point that he's getting a written statement promising admissions, he is not seriously looking at Swarthmore.

Why so angry? I just answered the question for this chain. Sorry if you don't like my son's options and choices. Go talk to him. He'll make the decision. Not me.

How can your son be pretty sure he’s going to Swarthmore when he couldn’t have applied ED as he applied to Penn ED?

He didn't apply ED anywhere.

And he hasn't heard yet from Swarthmore. Applied regular decision.

So you know for sure he’s in at two Ivy schools even though he didn’t apply early to either? What an amazing coincidence.

Ugh. This is not some unique scenario. He has one formal letter and one written statement from a coach. Neither one requires ED. He isn't breaking any rules. He prefers Swarthmore at the moment because he likes the size and environment. He won't hear though until March, although we are anticipating he will get in and have choices. By the way, a friend of his who graduated last year had heard from either three or four top schools at this point last year. I'm not bragging, but was answering the question on this chain.

Your discussion of how admissions offers for athletes work betrays your story as false. DD was recruited this Fall by Penn, a highly ranked state flagship and two other selective division 1 schools. She ended up choosing the state flagship bc she is v. dedicated to her sport and loved the coaches, team, etc. at the Flagship.

Here is the how it happens: After visiting, the Penn coach offered her a spot on the team and told her he ran her academic profile (GPA, ACT) by the admissions dept and that she would be admitted. She could accept the offer with a verbal; once her application was submitted she would get a likely letter right away and a formal admissions decision in mid December with the rest of the pool. However the timeline for accepting the coach's offer was late September, early October. The coaches do NOT give out promises of admission and then sit back and wait to hear from the student in March. Further, you do not get the written likely letter until you apply, and for Penn once you apply ED you cant apply anywhere else. After she told Penn of her decision to go to the other school, another kid who plays the same position as her announced their commitment to Penn with a few weeks. Coaches move on fast or else they wont be able to field a competitive team.

Agree with this. Once DC said he wasn’t going to apply ED at a school the coach moved on. To get a coaches push you need to be willing to commit early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to pull it all together with the "profoundly gifted" student who is in at Penn and Princeton, if that poster is not a troll, I'm assuming that the "formal letter" referred to is a "likely letter" from Penn not related to athletics. The written statement from the coach, which is not binding, would be indicating that the kid can play his sport at Penn as a walk on. The potential choice of Swarthmore over the other options is too confusing for me to make sense of. It's definitely not a place a serious athlete would pick over Princeton or Penn.

Further, no "profoundly gifted" student would choose Swarthmore over Princeton. Penn? Meh

My guess is that the very top SLACs are picked over Ivies, including Princeton, fairly often. At the Swarthmore, Williiams, Amherst level, I assume that happens fairly often---and i can see the attraction of those schools with a couple thousand intense undergrads as the entire campus versus some big research university with five to ten times as many students.

Probably not as many as you think. Especially against HYPS. I'd think no more than a handful, if money wasn't a factor.

Research opportunities are far better at Princeton than Swarthmore. No knock on Swarthmore as it's a fantastic school, but there's a reason Princeton is Princeton and Swarthmore is not. For anyone wanting the benefits of a school with a strong undergraduate focus but with the stellar research and faculty of a larger university you'd be really silly to turn down Princeton for Swarthmore. For the same reason someone wanting to play higher caliber (recruitment quality) sports in college would be silly to turn down either Penn or Swarthmore for Princeton.

Maybe your kid is the Swattie model and will fit in with Swarthmore perfectly and that calls to him over Princeton, but one does then wonder why he didn't apply ED to start with. Otherwise just be realistic about what Swarthmore can offer that Princeton doesn't. And, of course, let's see if Swarthmore does accept him because if he isn't an African American genius then there's no guarantees. Swarthmore may write him off as a lost cause, someone most likely to be accepted by an Ivy and this reject him to protect their yield.

As a professor, I think that this is a false comparison. Swarthmore is solely focued on undergraduates, whereas at Princeton undergraduates compete with graduate students for faculty time. Also, the culture at Swarthmore is much more academic than Princeton. According to the NSF, a significantly higher percentage of Swarthmore students end up getting PhDs compared to Princeton. (Swarthmore with nearly 23% of alum eventually earning PhDs is #3 according to the NSF; Princeton falls just outside the top 10 at #11 with 14%.) Swarthmore is well known among PhD programs as a top caliber feeder into doctoral programs. Princeton students do well, of course, but with the exception of a few majors (e.g., math) students don't choose Princeton because they're planning on getting PhDs. Students who do plan on competing a doctorate OTOH do choose Swarthmore--or Reed, Carleton. The best SLACs do a superior job of getting their students into doctoral programs.

Meh.

I think there's a lot of self-selection going on here that distorts the picture. Having seen both the top LAC environment and a major Ivy school, the latter had many more research opportunities available, with bigger departments, much bigger libraries, and many more specialist niches available for research. More money for funding, as well. Comparing Princeton and Swarthmore also means comparing the faculty between the two schools and Princeton has many more big names and that means potential opportunities to study with and even research for a big name.

Princeton is not a huge school either. Swarthmore has about 1600 undergrad compared to 5400 at Princeton (and Princeton has a further 3,000 grad students). It may seem much bigger, but it really won't feel like that. I do think Swarthmore is a fabulous school. And no one is hurt going to one over the other. At the same time I'd be careful about so decisively setting my heart on a PhD and researching with professors when you haven't even entered college! And the PhD track is one which many students regret going down. The major advantage of going to a bigger school, besides more resources, is that you have more opportunities in majors, courses, and yes, meeting people. A LAC, due to their small sizes, is just going to be much more limited.

Besides, if this woman's son is the genius she claims he is with likely letters prior to admissions, he will be one of the top of his class at Princeton (or Penn or any other big school) and in front of the queue to study and research with big name Princeton professors, so I would actually argue with much greater resources available to him at a bigger school, he should be looking at Princeton if he wants to make the most of researching as an undergrad with ultimately a PhD in sight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on our suburban public school three years in a row

At most 1% of kids get into a top private. Here are some stats

Rank #3 - White female. Deferred from Stanford. Got into Brown and Duke. Went to state flagship

Rank #2 - Asian female, Applied ED to Penn, went to Penn

Rank #1 - Asian Male. Only got into Cornell and Dartmouth. Went to Dartmouth

Anecdotally, only URM's or diversity cases in our school make it to HYPSM


End of Story.

I guess you can keep hating on minorities, but the reality is that these schools are still majority white, with a national demographic that is now nearly not for that cohort. I have no idea what's going on with your school, but it's not the case that white kids are locked out. Not remotely true.

Incorrect. Whites comprise less than 50% of the student body at most of the ivies. White students are down to 36% of undergrads at Stanford.

Here are facts:

The number of today's 17 and 18 year olds who are white is barely over 50%. Hard to claim that there is any big disadvantage to being white.

Schools play with how they count ethnicity, including whether international students are in or out and percentages of admits versus students matriculating. But most top schools are still majority white among US students, and once you get out of schools that are at the very top and/or in more urban areas, the percentage of white students soars (here's looking at you, Dartmouth, with 65% white).

There is no top ranked school that has a percentage of African Americans or Latinos (or Native Americans or Native Hawaiians/Pacific Islanders, for that matter) among their student body that exceeds the percentage in the population generally. For URMs, every top school is LESS diverse than the national population of college-age people.

So, you can keep blaming minority students when your kid doesn't get in to a school, but that's just scapegoating.

What is the distribution of races amongst college applicants?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to pull it all together with the "profoundly gifted" student who is in at Penn and Princeton, if that poster is not a troll, I'm assuming that the "formal letter" referred to is a "likely letter" from Penn not related to athletics. The written statement from the coach, which is not binding, would be indicating that the kid can play his sport at Penn as a walk on. The potential choice of Swarthmore over the other options is too confusing for me to make sense of. It's definitely not a place a serious athlete would pick over Princeton or Penn.

Further, no "profoundly gifted" student would choose Swarthmore over Princeton. Penn? Meh

My guess is that the very top SLACs are picked over Ivies, including Princeton, fairly often. At the Swarthmore, Williiams, Amherst level, I assume that happens fairly often---and i can see the attraction of those schools with a couple thousand intense undergrads as the entire campus versus some big research university with five to ten times as many students.

Probably not as many as you think. Especially against HYPS. I'd think no more than a handful, if money wasn't a factor.

Research opportunities are far better at Princeton than Swarthmore. No knock on Swarthmore as it's a fantastic school, but there's a reason Princeton is Princeton and Swarthmore is not. For anyone wanting the benefits of a school with a strong undergraduate focus but with the stellar research and faculty of a larger university you'd be really silly to turn down Princeton for Swarthmore. For the same reason someone wanting to play higher caliber (recruitment quality) sports in college would be silly to turn down either Penn or Swarthmore for Princeton.

Maybe your kid is the Swattie model and will fit in with Swarthmore perfectly and that calls to him over Princeton, but one does then wonder why he didn't apply ED to start with. Otherwise just be realistic about what Swarthmore can offer that Princeton doesn't. And, of course, let's see if Swarthmore does accept him because if he isn't an African American genius then there's no guarantees. Swarthmore may write him off as a lost cause, someone most likely to be accepted by an Ivy and this reject him to protect their yield.

As a professor, I think that this is a false comparison. Swarthmore is solely focued on undergraduates, whereas at Princeton undergraduates compete with graduate students for faculty time. Also, the culture at Swarthmore is much more academic than Princeton. According to the NSF, a significantly higher percentage of Swarthmore students end up getting PhDs compared to Princeton. (Swarthmore with nearly 23% of alum eventually earning PhDs is #3 according to the NSF; Princeton falls just outside the top 10 at #11 with 14%.) Swarthmore is well known among PhD programs as a top caliber feeder into doctoral programs. Princeton students do well, of course, but with the exception of a few majors (e.g., math) students don't choose Princeton because they're planning on getting PhDs. Students who do plan on competing a doctorate OTOH do choose Swarthmore--or Reed, Carleton. The best SLACs do a superior job of getting their students into doctoral programs.

Meh.

I think there's a lot of self-selection going on here that distorts the picture. Having seen both the top LAC environment and a major Ivy school, the latter had many more research opportunities available, with bigger departments, much bigger libraries, and many more specialist niches available for research. More money for funding, as well. Comparing Princeton and Swarthmore also means comparing the faculty between the two schools and Princeton has many more big names and that means potential opportunities to study with and even research for a big name.

Princeton is not a huge school either. Swarthmore has about 1600 undergrad compared to 5400 at Princeton (and Princeton has a further 3,000 grad students). It may seem much bigger, but it really won't feel like that. I do think Swarthmore is a fabulous school. And no one is hurt going to one over the other. At the same time I'd be careful about so decisively setting my heart on a PhD and researching with professors when you haven't even entered college! And the PhD track is one which many students regret going down. The major advantage of going to a bigger school, besides more resources, is that you have more opportunities in majors, courses, and yes, meeting people. A LAC, due to their small sizes, is just going to be much more limited.

Besides, if this woman's son is the genius she claims he is with likely letters prior to admissions, he will be one of the top of his class at Princeton (or Penn or any other big school) and in front of the queue to study and research with big name Princeton professors, so I would actually argue with much greater resources available to him at a bigger school, he should be looking at Princeton if he wants to make the most of researching as an undergrad with ultimately a PhD in sight.

Having had experiences at both Swarthmore, Chicago, and Princeton, I’d recommend Swarthmore for an unparalleled undergraduate experience and then a research university for graduate school. If you don’t plan on graduate school, I’d say, sure, go to a university. Smaller does not mean fewer opportunities—especially when you’re talking about schools like Swarthmore, Carleton, Williams, etc. On the contrary, smaller translates into greater accessibility to faculty, funds, clubs, etc. You can experience both a college and a university if you start off at a SLAC and then go onto a uni, but if you start off at at uni, you’ll never have the unique experience of a SLAC education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:DS is in at Princeton and Penn. Waiting on ther others. He's profoundly gifted. We assume he'll get in everywhere, but may head to Swarthmore instead.

Cough cough. BS. Cough cough. Penn is ED.

Exactly - you are not allowed to apply SCEA to Princeton and ED to Penn.

One of them is a written statement from a coach that he's in. The other is formal letter.

Good try but didn't cut the mustard.

If your kid is being recruited by one of the schools for a sport to the point that he's getting a written statement promising admissions, he is not seriously looking at Swarthmore.

Why so angry? I just answered the question for this chain. Sorry if you don't like my son's options and choices. Go talk to him. He'll make the decision. Not me.

How can your son be pretty sure he’s going to Swarthmore when he couldn’t have applied ED as he applied to Penn ED?

He didn't apply ED anywhere.

And he hasn't heard yet from Swarthmore. Applied regular decision.

So you know for sure he’s in at two Ivy schools even though he didn’t apply early to either? What an amazing coincidence.

Ugh. This is not some unique scenario. He has one formal letter and one written statement from a coach. Neither one requires ED. He isn't breaking any rules. He prefers Swarthmore at the moment because he likes the size and environment. He won't hear though until March, although we are anticipating he will get in and have choices. By the way, a friend of his who graduated last year had heard from either three or four top schools at this point last year. I'm not bragging, but was answering the question on this chain.

Your discussion of how admissions offers for athletes work betrays your story as false. DD was recruited this Fall by Penn, a highly ranked state flagship and two other selective division 1 schools. She ended up choosing the state flagship bc she is v. dedicated to her sport and loved the coaches, team, etc. at the Flagship.

Here is the how it happens: After visiting, the Penn coach offered her a spot on the team and told her he ran her academic profile (GPA, ACT) by the admissions dept and that she would be admitted. She could accept the offer with a verbal; once her application was submitted she would get a likely letter right away and a formal admissions decision in mid December with the rest of the pool. However the timeline for accepting the coach's offer was late September, early October. The coaches do NOT give out promises of admission and then sit back and wait to hear from the student in March. Further, you do not get the written likely letter until you apply, and for Penn once you apply ED you cant apply anywhere else. After she told Penn of her decision to go to the other school, another kid who plays the same position as her announced their commitment to Penn with a few weeks. Coaches move on fast or else they wont be able to field a competitive team.

Agree with this. Once DC said he wasn’t going to apply ED at a school the coach moved on. To get a coaches push you need to be willing to commit early.

+1

I had a child recruited by Ivy and top 20 (non Ivy). Academic pre reads happened, then the coach continued discussion. Only at the school that my child said they would apply ED to did a likely letter come. That letter had very strong wording that this was not an offer of admission and that the ONLY offer for admissions could come from..............the Admissions Office.

Poster with Penn, Princeton and Swarthmore is either a troll or grossly mis understands the process. Then again, maybe the mass mailings were mistaken for offers? lol My kid got them from every Ivy and all the others in the top 20. Some of them were even worded like my kid was a shoe-in for admission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale EA. Top of class at Montgomery County public school (not a W), top test scores, outstanding extracurriculars including fluent Mandarin and Spanish, published political papers, varsity sports letter, several jazz bands, NASA internship etc.

Adding--totally unaffiliated with Yale. No legacy ties or relations and no minority status.

Stop trying to draw attention to your cute little story. No one has commented on it because no one believes it.

Believe it especially since its a non-W.

Again it matters what school you are at because schools want diversity on multiple levels including school/geographic diversity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is in at Princeton and Penn. Waiting on ther others. He's profoundly gifted. We assume he'll get in everywhere, but may head to Swarthmore instead.

Cough cough. BS. Cough cough. Penn is ED.

Exactly - you are not allowed to apply SCEA to Princeton and ED to Penn.

One of them is a written statement from a coach that he's in. The other is formal letter.

Good try but didn't cut the mustard.

If your kid is being recruited by one of the schools for a sport to the point that he's getting a written statement promising admissions, he is not seriously looking at Swarthmore.

Why so angry? I just answered the question for this chain. Sorry if you don't like my son's options and choices. Go talk to him. He'll make the decision. Not me.

How can your son be pretty sure he’s going to Swarthmore when he couldn’t have applied ED as he applied to Penn ED?

He didn't apply ED anywhere.

And he hasn't heard yet from Swarthmore. Applied regular decision.

So you know for sure he’s in at two Ivy schools even though he didn’t apply early to either? What an amazing coincidence.

Ugh. This is not some unique scenario. He has one formal letter and one written statement from a coach. Neither one requires ED. He isn't breaking any rules. He prefers Swarthmore at the moment because he likes the size and environment. He won't hear though until March, although we are anticipating he will get in and have choices. By the way, a friend of his who graduated last year had heard from either three or four top schools at this point last year. I'm not bragging, but was answering the question on this chain.

Your discussion of how admissions offers for athletes work betrays your story as false. DD was recruited this Fall by Penn, a highly ranked state flagship and two other selective division 1 schools. She ended up choosing the state flagship bc she is v. dedicated to her sport and loved the coaches, team, etc. at the Flagship.

Here is the how it happens: After visiting, the Penn coach offered her a spot on the team and told her he ran her academic profile (GPA, ACT) by the admissions dept and that she would be admitted. She could accept the offer with a verbal; once her application was submitted she would get a likely letter right away and a formal admissions decision in mid December with the rest of the pool. However the timeline for accepting the coach's offer was late September, early October. The coaches do NOT give out promises of admission and then sit back and wait to hear from the student in March. Further, you do not get the written likely letter until you apply, and for Penn once you apply ED you cant apply anywhere else. After she told Penn of her decision to go to the other school, another kid who plays the same position as her announced their commitment to Penn with a few weeks. Coaches move on fast or else they wont be able to field a competitive team.

Agree with this. Once DC said he wasn’t going to apply ED at a school the coach moved on. To get a coaches push you need to be willing to commit early.

+1

I had a child recruited by Ivy and top 20 (non Ivy). Academic pre reads happened, then the coach continued discussion. Only at the school that my child said they would apply ED to did a likely letter come. That letter had very strong wording that this was not an offer of admission and that the ONLY offer for admissions could come from..............the Admissions Office.

Poster with Penn, Princeton and Swarthmore is either a troll or grossly mis understands the process. Then again, maybe the mass mailings were mistaken for offers? lol My kid got them from every Ivy and all the others in the top 20. Some of them were even worded like my kid was a shoe-in for admission.

Ivy league likely letters only come after the student formally applies; see this: https://admission.princeton.edu/how-apply/joint-ivy-statement-admission-policies

I guess its possible these in-writing offers came since new year but poster seemed to imply early round with this wording "He has one formal letter and one written statement from a coach. Neither one requires ED."

But a coach's pre-read from the admin office is very likely tied to a verbal commitment from the student to join the team. Otherwise the coach has to identify someone else for the slot and its too late for that April 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is in at Princeton and Penn. Waiting on ther others. He's profoundly gifted. We assume he'll get in everywhere, but may head to Swarthmore instead.

Cough cough. BS. Cough cough. Penn is ED.

Exactly - you are not allowed to apply SCEA to Princeton and ED to Penn.

One of them is a written statement from a coach that he's in. The other is formal letter.

Good try but didn't cut the mustard.

If your kid is being recruited by one of the schools for a sport to the point that he's getting a written statement promising admissions, he is not seriously looking at Swarthmore.

Why so angry? I just answered the question for this chain. Sorry if you don't like my son's options and choices. Go talk to him. He'll make the decision. Not me.

How can your son be pretty sure he’s going to Swarthmore when he couldn’t have applied ED as he applied to Penn ED?

He didn't apply ED anywhere.

And he hasn't heard yet from Swarthmore. Applied regular decision.

So you know for sure he’s in at two Ivy schools even though he didn’t apply early to either? What an amazing coincidence.

Ugh. This is not some unique scenario. He has one formal letter and one written statement from a coach. Neither one requires ED. He isn't breaking any rules. He prefers Swarthmore at the moment because he likes the size and environment. He won't hear though until March, although we are anticipating he will get in and have choices. By the way, a friend of his who graduated last year had heard from either three or four top schools at this point last year. I'm not bragging, but was answering the question on this chain.

Your discussion of how admissions offers for athletes work betrays your story as false. DD was recruited this Fall by Penn, a highly ranked state flagship and two other selective division 1 schools. She ended up choosing the state flagship bc she is v. dedicated to her sport and loved the coaches, team, etc. at the Flagship.

Here is the how it happens: After visiting, the Penn coach offered her a spot on the team and told her he ran her academic profile (GPA, ACT) by the admissions dept and that she would be admitted. She could accept the offer with a verbal; once her application was submitted she would get a likely letter right away and a formal admissions decision in mid December with the rest of the pool. However the timeline for accepting the coach's offer was late September, early October. The coaches do NOT give out promises of admission and then sit back and wait to hear from the student in March. Further, you do not get the written likely letter until you apply, and for Penn once you apply ED you cant apply anywhere else. After she told Penn of her decision to go to the other school, another kid who plays the same position as her announced their commitment to Penn with a few weeks. Coaches move on fast or else they wont be able to field a competitive team.

Agree with this. Once DC said he wasn’t going to apply ED at a school the coach moved on. To get a coaches push you need to be willing to commit early.

+1

I had a child recruited by Ivy and top 20 (non Ivy). Academic pre reads happened, then the coach continued discussion. Only at the school that my child said they would apply ED to did a likely letter come. That letter had very strong wording that this was not an offer of admission and that the ONLY offer for admissions could come from..............the Admissions Office.

Poster with Penn, Princeton and Swarthmore is either a troll or grossly mis understands the process. Then again, maybe the mass mailings were mistaken for offers? lol My kid got them from every Ivy and all the others in the top 20. Some of them were even worded like my kid was a shoe-in for admission.

Ivy league likely letters only come after the student formally applies; see this: https://admission.princeton.edu/how-apply/joint-ivy-statement-admission-policies

I guess its possible these in-writing offers came since new year but poster seemed to imply early round with this wording "He has one formal letter and one written statement from a coach. Neither one requires ED."

But a coach's pre-read from the admin office is very likely tied to a verbal commitment from the student to join the team. Otherwise the coach has to identify someone else for the slot and its too late for that April 1.

+1. The coach that recruited my DC made it very clear that the expectation was ED if he was going to support the application. Coaches have a limited number of apps they can support so they are only going to do it if they know the applicant will enroll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is in at Princeton and Penn. Waiting on ther others. He's profoundly gifted. We assume he'll get in everywhere, but may head to Swarthmore instead.

Cough cough. BS. Cough cough. Penn is ED.

Exactly - you are not allowed to apply SCEA to Princeton and ED to Penn.

One of them is a written statement from a coach that he's in. The other is formal letter.

Good try but didn't cut the mustard.

If your kid is being recruited by one of the schools for a sport to the point that he's getting a written statement promising admissions, he is not seriously looking at Swarthmore.

Why so angry? I just answered the question for this chain. Sorry if you don't like my son's options and choices. Go talk to him. He'll make the decision. Not me.

How can your son be pretty sure he’s going to Swarthmore when he couldn’t have applied ED as he applied to Penn ED?

He didn't apply ED anywhere.

And he hasn't heard yet from Swarthmore. Applied regular decision.

So you know for sure he’s in at two Ivy schools even though he didn’t apply early to either? What an amazing coincidence.

Ugh. This is not some unique scenario. He has one formal letter and one written statement from a coach. Neither one requires ED. He isn't breaking any rules. He prefers Swarthmore at the moment because he likes the size and environment. He won't hear though until March, although we are anticipating he will get in and have choices. By the way, a friend of his who graduated last year had heard from either three or four top schools at this point last year. I'm not bragging, but was answering the question on this chain.

Your discussion of how admissions offers for athletes work betrays your story as false. DD was recruited this Fall by Penn, a highly ranked state flagship and two other selective division 1 schools. She ended up choosing the state flagship bc she is v. dedicated to her sport and loved the coaches, team, etc. at the Flagship.

Here is the how it happens: After visiting, the Penn coach offered her a spot on the team and told her he ran her academic profile (GPA, ACT) by the admissions dept and that she would be admitted. She could accept the offer with a verbal; once her application was submitted she would get a likely letter right away and a formal admissions decision in mid December with the rest of the pool. However the timeline for accepting the coach's offer was late September, early October. The coaches do NOT give out promises of admission and then sit back and wait to hear from the student in March. Further, you do not get the written likely letter until you apply, and for Penn once you apply ED you cant apply anywhere else. After she told Penn of her decision to go to the other school, another kid who plays the same position as her announced their commitment to Penn with a few weeks. Coaches move on fast or else they wont be able to field a competitive team.

Agree with this. Once DC said he wasn’t going to apply ED at a school the coach moved on. To get a coaches push you need to be willing to commit early.

+1

I had a child recruited by Ivy and top 20 (non Ivy). Academic pre reads happened, then the coach continued discussion. Only at the school that my child said they would apply ED to did a likely letter come. That letter had very strong wording that this was not an offer of admission and that the ONLY offer for admissions could come from..............the Admissions Office.

Poster with Penn, Princeton and Swarthmore is either a troll or grossly mis understands the process. Then again, maybe the mass mailings were mistaken for offers? lol My kid got them from every Ivy and all the others in the top 20. Some of them were even worded like my kid was a shoe-in for admission.

Ivy league likely letters only come after the student formally applies; see this: https://admission.princeton.edu/how-apply/joint-ivy-statement-admission-policies

I guess its possible these in-writing offers came since new year but poster seemed to imply early round with this wording "He has one formal letter and one written statement from a coach. Neither one requires ED."

But a coach's pre-read from the admin office is very likely tied to a verbal commitment from the student to join the team. Otherwise the coach has to identify someone else for the slot and its too late for that April 1.

+1. The coach that recruited my DC made it very clear that the expectation was ED if he was going to support the application. Coaches have a limited number of apps they can support so they are only going to do it if they know the applicant will enroll.

Could you imagine if Ivy coaches were holding pre-read slots for kids to may or may not accept the offer of admission or multiple pre-reads for kids to may or may not make the team? That means even fewer kids admitted from the general pool of applicants.

[Anonymous]

But they'd get the best team. Isn't that the most important thing?

[Anonymous]

This is what happened to my athlete at an Ivy:
1. Kid sends transcript for pre read to admin
2. Admin talks to coach and either gives thumbs up or down depending how good athlete is and how much coach wants kid
3. Coach makes offer of likely letter - could be ED or RD.
4. Kid tells coach yay or nay.
5. In our case, this is our first kid through this process. Remember coach has been through this process multiple times. And we the parents are not talking to the coach in this process - all between kid and coach. We get the summary from kid after calls/visits.
- coach offers my kid RD likely letter but tells DC to apply ED if DC accepts
- DC thinks bird in hand is worth two in bush so accepts
- DC applies ED and gets in without likely letter
-Coach then able to use likely letter to recruit another athlete: win win for coach as now coach has 2 athletes he wanted for team but only used one likely letter (coaches are allowed limited number of likely letters depending on sport)

So what we would never know is if DC was strong enough to get in academically/EC without any hooks, could DC got into other schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale EA. Top of class at Montgomery County public school (not a W), top test scores, outstanding extracurriculars including fluent Mandarin and Spanish, published political papers, varsity sports letter, several jazz bands, NASA internship etc.

Adding--totally unaffiliated with Yale. No legacy ties or relations and no minority status.

Stop trying to draw attention to your cute little story. No one has commented on it because no one believes it.

Believe it especially since its a non-W.

Again it matters what school you are at because schools want diversity on multiple levels including school/geographic diversity

My guess - Blair HS.