APS Elementary Location Working Group 4/12

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What would people think about giving priority admission to choice programs to students from adjacent elementary schools (the schools where, if the option site were instead a neighborhood site, the school's boundaries would likely draw from their zones) when those schools are facing a capacity crisis. So if ATS stays where it is, when any of Barrett, Ashlawn, Reed, or Glebe are facing disproportionate overcrowding as compared to the system as a whole, they are guaranteed that X number of seats in the incoming kindergarten class are set aside for students from their zone, and any students from their zone who don't get a seat through that lottery get put into the general lottery with all the other applicants (so they should end up with more than the minimum number of students getting in, the minimum just sets a guaranteed floor). If seats open up in later grades, waitlisted students from those schools are offered the seat first before it goes to the person at the top of the list from another school. If the program moved to Nottingham, then the priority would go to Tuckahoe, Discovery and Reed instead. If you moved it to Carlin Springs, Campbell/Claremont (depending on which one would become neighborhood) and Barcroft get priority. It wouldn't be a cure-all for whichever area loses potential neighborhood seats to an option program, but would at least help alleviate some of the burden that would result.

Haha, we *JUST* took away neighborhood priority to Key Immersion. They are not going to walk that back anytime soon, would be so embarrassing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would people think about giving priority admission to choice programs to students from adjacent elementary schools (the schools where, if the option site were instead a neighborhood site, the school's boundaries would likely draw from their zones) when those schools are facing a capacity crisis. So if ATS stays where it is, when any of Barrett, Ashlawn, Reed, or Glebe are facing disproportionate overcrowding as compared to the system as a whole, they are guaranteed that X number of seats in the incoming kindergarten class are set aside for students from their zone, and any students from their zone who don't get a seat through that lottery get put into the general lottery with all the other applicants (so they should end up with more than the minimum number of students getting in, the minimum just sets a guaranteed floor). If seats open up in later grades, waitlisted students from those schools are offered the seat first before it goes to the person at the top of the list from another school. If the program moved to Nottingham, then the priority would go to Tuckahoe, Discovery and Reed instead. If you moved it to Carlin Springs, Campbell/Claremont (depending on which one would become neighborhood) and Barcroft get priority. It wouldn't be a cure-all for whichever area loses potential neighborhood seats to an option program, but would at least help alleviate some of the burden that would result.

We just moved away from this system. We're not going back. Options are open, no neighborhood preferences.

Then no one can blame any neighborhood that fights tooth and nail losing 500-600 seats while being told APS will do nothing to relieve the resulting overcrowding. Anyone would do the same.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:About moving the immersion schools close to the spanish speakers. You all make an assumption (as does the county) that the immigrants who live in the county's lower income housing are spanish speakers. A larger percentage are not.

My kid was at Claremont and a larger percentage of the spanish speakers were middle or upper middle class. They are educated professionals. That is why both Key and Claremont may be 50% spanish speakers, but not 50% free and reduced lunch. At a PTA meeting with a SB member, it was made very clear that if the SB wants more lower income families, it needs to educate those families about the options and why dual immersion is good for them. Many immigrants DO NOT WANT IMMERSION. They want their kids to learn english asap.

It is honestly quite crazy to think that recent non-Spanish speaking immigrants would have ANY interest in foreign language immersion.

It is also quite crazy for a government/school district to contemplate moving several schools and their families to cater to perceived preferred home choices of recent (?) immigrant populations.

This is all about moving Key Immersion to make neighborhood seats. If it wasn't already option it would have been immediately ruled out by the corner of the county criteria applied to Jamestown, Tuckahoe, and Abingdon since there is no where else reasonably close to send Rosslyn and Courthouse. It wasn't an issue before because technically Key was a neighborhood school. The preferences of immigrant populations only comes into play because the program doesn't exist without Spanish speakers.

And what happens if the Spanish speakers at those schools (immigrant or otherwise) decide they just want to go to school close to home and opt to withdraw from the immersion program? What happens then? Does APS have a wildly under-enrolled immersion program?

I don't think they can assume Spanish speakers will continue if they move it up to ATS or one of the NW schools. Those can be hard to reach by public transit.

If people are only going because of the location, does the program need to exist?

That's not the question. The question to ask is whether there are barriers to families choosing the option. For instance: if your family does not have a car, maybe you don't put in for a lottery school if it's too fat from your home. If the option is located in a neighborhood that has made it clear you are unwelcome, perhaps you don't want to send your kids there?

So because another location might be a barrier to someone somewhere, Key school should remain a lottery only option site. The families who live in Courthouse and Rosslyn, many of whom don't drive and many of whom are non-spanish speaking immigrants of limited means should just go ahead and figure out how to get to Taylor for various school events and before and after care.

As much as Key families may object, I don't think there is any way that they can keep it a county-wide lottery option school. That area is too densely populated with more school aged children living in it every year.

The big question is whether they swap it with ASFS, move it to ATS (utilizing trailers if needed) or take the chance on moving it to the NW (and it being under-enrolled). If those are the three options, which would you choose?

They are swapping Key and ASFS. If an ES goes in at W-L it will be an option school, where they would move Montessori so that they can put all the HS seats at the Career Center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would people think about giving priority admission to choice programs to students from adjacent elementary schools (the schools where, if the option site were instead a neighborhood site, the school's boundaries would likely draw from their zones) when those schools are facing a capacity crisis. So if ATS stays where it is, when any of Barrett, Ashlawn, Reed, or Glebe are facing disproportionate overcrowding as compared to the system as a whole, they are guaranteed that X number of seats in the incoming kindergarten class are set aside for students from their zone, and any students from their zone who don't get a seat through that lottery get put into the general lottery with all the other applicants (so they should end up with more than the minimum number of students getting in, the minimum just sets a guaranteed floor). If seats open up in later grades, waitlisted students from those schools are offered the seat first before it goes to the person at the top of the list from another school. If the program moved to Nottingham, then the priority would go to Tuckahoe, Discovery and Reed instead. If you moved it to Carlin Springs, Campbell/Claremont (depending on which one would become neighborhood) and Barcroft get priority. It wouldn't be a cure-all for whichever area loses potential neighborhood seats to an option program, but would at least help alleviate some of the burden that would result.

Haha, we *JUST* took away neighborhood priority to Key Immersion. They are not going to walk that back anytime soon, would be so embarrassing.

It wouldn't be a routine thing, just when truly necessary for the neighboring schools. Otherwise what is APS going to do when the neighboring school to an option program is at 110% when the rest of the system is at 101%? It might save them some rounds of readjusting boundaries when things get really out of whack.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would people think about giving priority admission to choice programs to students from adjacent elementary schools (the schools where, if the option site were instead a neighborhood site, the school's boundaries would likely draw from their zones) when those schools are facing a capacity crisis. So if ATS stays where it is, when any of Barrett, Ashlawn, Reed, or Glebe are facing disproportionate overcrowding as compared to the system as a whole, they are guaranteed that X number of seats in the incoming kindergarten class are set aside for students from their zone, and any students from their zone who don't get a seat through that lottery get put into the general lottery with all the other applicants (so they should end up with more than the minimum number of students getting in, the minimum just sets a guaranteed floor). If seats open up in later grades, waitlisted students from those schools are offered the seat first before it goes to the person at the top of the list from another school. If the program moved to Nottingham, then the priority would go to Tuckahoe, Discovery and Reed instead. If you moved it to Carlin Springs, Campbell/Claremont (depending on which one would become neighborhood) and Barcroft get priority. It wouldn't be a cure-all for whichever area loses potential neighborhood seats to an option program, but would at least help alleviate some of the burden that would result.

We just moved away from this system. We're not going back. Options are open, no neighborhood preferences.

Then no one can blame any neighborhood that fights tooth and nail losing 500-600 seats while being told APS will do nothing to relieve the resulting overcrowding. Anyone would do the same.

What are you talking about? Bluemont isn't losing neighborhood seats. It never had them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Then no one can blame any neighborhood that fights tooth and nail losing 500-600 seats while being told APS will do nothing to relieve the resulting overcrowding. Anyone would do the same.

You don't look at seats by neighborhood, but by the school system.

And families previously zoned for Key still have a neighborhood high school. Walking to school is great, but it's not reasonable to expect your kids to get to walk to school for all 13 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would people think about giving priority admission to choice programs to students from adjacent elementary schools (the schools where, if the option site were instead a neighborhood site, the school's boundaries would likely draw from their zones) when those schools are facing a capacity crisis. So if ATS stays where it is, when any of Barrett, Ashlawn, Reed, or Glebe are facing disproportionate overcrowding as compared to the system as a whole, they are guaranteed that X number of seats in the incoming kindergarten class are set aside for students from their zone, and any students from their zone who don't get a seat through that lottery get put into the general lottery with all the other applicants (so they should end up with more than the minimum number of students getting in, the minimum just sets a guaranteed floor). If seats open up in later grades, waitlisted students from those schools are offered the seat first before it goes to the person at the top of the list from another school. If the program moved to Nottingham, then the priority would go to Tuckahoe, Discovery and Reed instead. If you moved it to Carlin Springs, Campbell/Claremont (depending on which one would become neighborhood) and Barcroft get priority. It wouldn't be a cure-all for whichever area loses potential neighborhood seats to an option program, but would at least help alleviate some of the burden that would result.

We just moved away from this system. We're not going back. Options are open, no neighborhood preferences.

Then no one can blame any neighborhood that fights tooth and nail losing 500-600 seats while being told APS will do nothing to relieve the resulting overcrowding. Anyone would do the same.

What are you talking about? Bluemont isn't losing neighborhood seats. It never had them.

NE is freaking out about possibly keeping an option school with no neighborhood preference. NW is freaking out about an option school possibly coming to Nottingham. Bluemont freaked out about the possibility of *not* having the program move so they could get more local seats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then no one can blame any neighborhood that fights tooth and nail losing 500-600 seats while being told APS will do nothing to relieve the resulting overcrowding. Anyone would do the same.

You don't look at seats by neighborhood, but by the school system.

And families previously zoned for Key still have a neighborhood high school. Walking to school is great, but it's not reasonable to expect your kids to get to walk to school for all 13 years.

Within the school system you have to look at seats by neighborhood for planning purposes. Especially when you need to stop rapidly increasing transportation costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then no one can blame any neighborhood that fights tooth and nail losing 500-600 seats while being told APS will do nothing to relieve the resulting overcrowding. Anyone would do the same.

You don't look at seats by neighborhood, but by the school system.

And families previously zoned for Key still have a neighborhood high school. Walking to school is great, but it's not reasonable to expect your kids to get to walk to school for all 13 years.

Within the school system you have to look at seats by neighborhood for planning purposes. Especially when you need to stop rapidly increasing transportation costs.

But overall, unless the option schools don't fill up (unlikely), boundary adjustments would take into account proximity. The option schools, assuming the general site is considered good for an option, aren't taking anything away from the system. They're looking at things to try to optimize walking to school. But there are no guarantees that every child will be able to walk to school, not even if they can do so now. Just that more could. Because not every family's first priority is proximity. And in some cases, I think there are other factors to consider when they make their decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then no one can blame any neighborhood that fights tooth and nail losing 500-600 seats while being told APS will do nothing to relieve the resulting overcrowding. Anyone would do the same.

You don't look at seats by neighborhood, but by the school system.

And families previously zoned for Key still have a neighborhood high school. Walking to school is great, but it's not reasonable to expect your kids to get to walk to school for all 13 years.

Key is zoned for Yorktown. Unless you're considering HB Woodlawn a neighborhood HS? Ha.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ASFS and Key as neighborhood. Key to ATS. ATS to Nottingham.

+100 Love this solution

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then no one can blame any neighborhood that fights tooth and nail losing 500-600 seats while being told APS will do nothing to relieve the resulting overcrowding. Anyone would do the same.

You don't look at seats by neighborhood, but by the school system.

And families previously zoned for Key still have a neighborhood high school. Walking to school is great, but it's not reasonable to expect your kids to get to walk to school for all 13 years.

Key is zoned for Yorktown. Unless you're considering HB Woodlawn a neighborhood HS? Ha.

At least some of Key (the Lyon Village part) is zoned for W-L: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/HSZones_Letter_2017.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then no one can blame any neighborhood that fights tooth and nail losing 500-600 seats while being told APS will do nothing to relieve the resulting overcrowding. Anyone would do the same.

You don't look at seats by neighborhood, but by the school system.

And families previously zoned for Key still have a neighborhood high school. Walking to school is great, but it's not reasonable to expect your kids to get to walk to school for all 13 years.

Within the school system you have to look at seats by neighborhood for planning purposes. Especially when you need to stop rapidly increasing transportation costs.

But overall, unless the option schools don't fill up (unlikely), boundary adjustments would take into account proximity. The option schools, assuming the general site is considered good for an option, aren't taking anything away from the system. They're looking at things to try to optimize walking to school. But there are no guarantees that every child will be able to walk to school, not even if they can do so now. Just that more could. Because not every family's first priority is proximity. And in some cases, I think there are other factors to consider when they make their decision.

They don't take anything away from the system as a whole, but they do take away flexibility from the individual areas to manage unexpected capacity increases. The fewer schools in a region (and especially if any of the schools can't take on trailers), the fewer additional seats that can be added via trailers to account for such an unexpected capacity increase. If we look at the Nottingham area, Tuckahoe and McKinley are already maxed out on trailers and Discovery can't take any trailers at all. The only reason people think there's going to be an abundance of extra seats in that area when Reed opens is because the staff is projecting that enrollment in that area will stay even or decrease over the next five years. The problem is that they've been saying this every year for ages, projecting that the next year's incoming kindergarten class will be meaningfully smaller than the ones before, and yet every year that turns out not to be the case and schools scramble in July to find more teachers. If they turn out to be wrong on their projections again and they make Nottingham an option school, all of those schools could potentially be worse than ever with very few options for managing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then no one can blame any neighborhood that fights tooth and nail losing 500-600 seats while being told APS will do nothing to relieve the resulting overcrowding. Anyone would do the same.

You don't look at seats by neighborhood, but by the school system.

And families previously zoned for Key still have a neighborhood high school. Walking to school is great, but it's not reasonable to expect your kids to get to walk to school for all 13 years.

Key is zoned for Yorktown. Unless you're considering HB Woodlawn a neighborhood HS? Ha.

At least some of Key (the Lyon Village part) is zoned for W-L: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/HSZones_Letter_2017.pdf

Right, cause they don't get screwed like the rest of us. The majority of the zone where most of the students live (cross reference here if you don't believe me https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Stu17K5_PP.jpg) is shipped waaaaaaay over to Williamsburg and Yorktown. No, it's not close or convenient. We fortunately will be zoned to the new middle school at Stratford (still not a "neighborhood" school, but better), but the Yorktown situation will not change.

BTW, this is exactly what will happen if they don't change Key to neighborhood. Lyon Village will go to ASFS and those of us further east will be shipped to the hinterlands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then no one can blame any neighborhood that fights tooth and nail losing 500-600 seats while being told APS will do nothing to relieve the resulting overcrowding. Anyone would do the same.

You don't look at seats by neighborhood, but by the school system.

And families previously zoned for Key still have a neighborhood high school. Walking to school is great, but it's not reasonable to expect your kids to get to walk to school for all 13 years.

Within the school system you have to look at seats by neighborhood for planning purposes. Especially when you need to stop rapidly increasing transportation costs.

But overall, unless the option schools don't fill up (unlikely), boundary adjustments would take into account proximity. The option schools, assuming the general site is considered good for an option, aren't taking anything away from the system. They're looking at things to try to optimize walking to school. But there are no guarantees that every child will be able to walk to school, not even if they can do so now. Just that more could. Because not every family's first priority is proximity. And in some cases, I think there are other factors to consider when they make their decision.

They don't take anything away from the system as a whole, but they do take away flexibility from the individual areas to manage unexpected capacity increases. The fewer schools in a region (and especially if any of the schools can't take on trailers), the fewer additional seats that can be added via trailers to account for such an unexpected capacity increase. If we look at the Nottingham area, Tuckahoe and McKinley are already maxed out on trailers and Discovery can't take any trailers at all. The only reason people think there's going to be an abundance of extra seats in that area when Reed opens is because the staff is projecting that enrollment in that area will stay even or decrease over the next five years. The problem is that they've been saying this every year for ages, projecting that the next year's incoming kindergarten class will be meaningfully smaller than the ones before, and yet every year that turns out not to be the case and schools scramble in July to find more teachers. If they turn out to be wrong on their projections again and they make Nottingham an option school, all of those schools could potentially be worse than ever with very few options for managing it.

I want to add that I know the NW quadrant isn't the only part of Arlington that faces these issues, it's just the one I know and can speak to. These kinds of constraints should be taken into consideration for any area that faces them in deciding whether it's a suitable place for an option program and what, if anything, APS should do to mitigate the resulting capacity risks if it does move a program there.