APS Elementary Location Working Group 4/12

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But the option program at ATS can technically go anywhere. They need a neighborhood scjool closer to Ballston as that area is just going to continue to grow.

Fully agree. There should be walkable elementary schools in the Rosslyn to Ballston corridor. ATS's building is just on the edge of Ballston and should be neighborhood.

They just went through that whole exercise showing that of all sites, ATS meets all (4) criteria of an option school, and is the only site that does.
If you looked at the maps of the walk zone survey you would see that the ATS walk zone overlaps in its entirety with the Ashlawn walk zone.
That neighborhood already has a neighborhood school: Ashlawn, and it’s a darn good school, and walking distance for those planning units.

I agree that ATS site will remain option, but the walk zones don't overlap. https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ES_Arl_Traditional_WZ_Policy_Final.pdf https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ES_Ashlawn_WZ_Policy_Final.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About moving the immersion schools close to the spanish speakers. You all make an assumption (as does the county) that the immigrants who live in the county's lower income housing are spanish speakers. A larger percentage are not.

My kid was at Claremont and a larger percentage of the spanish speakers were middle or upper middle class. They are educated professionals. That is why both Key and Claremont may be 50% spanish speakers, but not 50% free and reduced lunch. At a PTA meeting with a SB member, it was made very clear that if the SB wants more lower income families, it needs to educate those families about the options and why dual immersion is good for them. Many immigrants DO NOT WANT IMMERSION. They want their kids to learn english asap.

It is honestly quite crazy to think that recent non-Spanish speaking immigrants would have ANY interest in foreign language immersion.

It is also quite crazy for a government/school district to contemplate moving several schools and their families to cater to perceived preferred home choices of recent (?) immigrant populations.

This is all about moving Key Immersion to make neighborhood seats. If it wasn't already option it would have been immediately ruled out by the corner of the county criteria applied to Jamestown, Tuckahoe, and Abingdon since there is no where else reasonably close to send Rosslyn and Courthouse. It wasn't an issue before because technically Key was a neighborhood school. The preferences of immigrant populations only comes into play because the program doesn't exist without Spanish speakers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About moving the immersion schools close to the spanish speakers. You all make an assumption (as does the county) that the immigrants who live in the county's lower income housing are spanish speakers. A larger percentage are not.

My kid was at Claremont and a larger percentage of the spanish speakers were middle or upper middle class. They are educated professionals. That is why both Key and Claremont may be 50% spanish speakers, but not 50% free and reduced lunch. At a PTA meeting with a SB member, it was made very clear that if the SB wants more lower income families, it needs to educate those families about the options and why dual immersion is good for them. Many immigrants DO NOT WANT IMMERSION. They want their kids to learn english asap.

It is honestly quite crazy to think that recent non-Spanish speaking immigrants would have ANY interest in foreign language immersion.

It is also quite crazy for a government/school district to contemplate moving several schools and their families to cater to perceived preferred home choices of recent (?) immigrant populations.

This is all about moving Key Immersion to make neighborhood seats. If it wasn't already option it would have been immediately ruled out by the corner of the county criteria applied to Jamestown, Tuckahoe, and Abingdon since there is no where else reasonably close to send Rosslyn and Courthouse. It wasn't an issue before because technically Key was a neighborhood school. The preferences of immigrant populations only comes into play because the program doesn't exist without Spanish speakers.

And what happens if the Spanish speakers at those schools (immigrant or otherwise) decide they just want to go to school close to home and opt to withdraw from the immersion program? What happens then? Does APS have a wildly under-enrolled immersion program?

I don't think they can assume Spanish speakers will continue if they move it up to ATS or one of the NW schools. Those can be hard to reach by public transit.

[Anonymous]

Are they going to move Key to the Ed Center location? I thought I read that was a possibility somewhere?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About moving the immersion schools close to the spanish speakers. You all make an assumption (as does the county) that the immigrants who live in the county's lower income housing are spanish speakers. A larger percentage are not.

My kid was at Claremont and a larger percentage of the spanish speakers were middle or upper middle class. They are educated professionals. That is why both Key and Claremont may be 50% spanish speakers, but not 50% free and reduced lunch. At a PTA meeting with a SB member, it was made very clear that if the SB wants more lower income families, it needs to educate those families about the options and why dual immersion is good for them. Many immigrants DO NOT WANT IMMERSION. They want their kids to learn english asap.

It is honestly quite crazy to think that recent non-Spanish speaking immigrants would have ANY interest in foreign language immersion.

It is also quite crazy for a government/school district to contemplate moving several schools and their families to cater to perceived preferred home choices of recent (?) immigrant populations.

This is all about moving Key Immersion to make neighborhood seats. If it wasn't already option it would have been immediately ruled out by the corner of the county criteria applied to Jamestown, Tuckahoe, and Abingdon since there is no where else reasonably close to send Rosslyn and Courthouse. It wasn't an issue before because technically Key was a neighborhood school. The preferences of immigrant populations only comes into play because the program doesn't exist without Spanish speakers.

And what happens if the Spanish speakers at those schools (immigrant or otherwise) decide they just want to go to school close to home and opt to withdraw from the immersion program? What happens then? Does APS have a wildly under-enrolled immersion program?

I don't think they can assume Spanish speakers will continue if they move it up to ATS or one of the NW schools. Those can be hard to reach by public transit.

If people are only going because of the location, does the program need to exist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is all about moving Key Immersion to make neighborhood seats. If it wasn't already option it would have been immediately ruled out by the corner of the county criteria applied to Jamestown, Tuckahoe, and Abingdon since there is no where else reasonably close to send Rosslyn and Courthouse. It wasn't an issue before because technically Key was a neighborhood school. The preferences of immigrant populations only comes into play because the program doesn't exist without Spanish speakers.

And what happens if the Spanish speakers at those schools (immigrant or otherwise) decide they just want to go to school close to home and opt to withdraw from the immersion program? What happens then? Does APS have a wildly under-enrolled immersion program?

I don't think they can assume Spanish speakers will continue if they move it up to ATS or one of the NW schools. Those can be hard to reach by public transit.

If people are only going because of the location, does the program need to exist?

That's a very valid question. And one the SB is not considering, which is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About moving the immersion schools close to the spanish speakers. You all make an assumption (as does the county) that the immigrants who live in the county's lower income housing are spanish speakers. A larger percentage are not.

My kid was at Claremont and a larger percentage of the spanish speakers were middle or upper middle class. They are educated professionals. That is why both Key and Claremont may be 50% spanish speakers, but not 50% free and reduced lunch. At a PTA meeting with a SB member, it was made very clear that if the SB wants more lower income families, it needs to educate those families about the options and why dual immersion is good for them. Many immigrants DO NOT WANT IMMERSION. They want their kids to learn english asap.

It is honestly quite crazy to think that recent non-Spanish speaking immigrants would have ANY interest in foreign language immersion.

It is also quite crazy for a government/school district to contemplate moving several schools and their families to cater to perceived preferred home choices of recent (?) immigrant populations.

This is all about moving Key Immersion to make neighborhood seats. If it wasn't already option it would have been immediately ruled out by the corner of the county criteria applied to Jamestown, Tuckahoe, and Abingdon since there is no where else reasonably close to send Rosslyn and Courthouse. It wasn't an issue before because technically Key was a neighborhood school. The preferences of immigrant populations only comes into play because the program doesn't exist without Spanish speakers.

And what happens if the Spanish speakers at those schools (immigrant or otherwise) decide they just want to go to school close to home and opt to withdraw from the immersion program? What happens then? Does APS have a wildly under-enrolled immersion program?

I don't think they can assume Spanish speakers will continue if they move it up to ATS or one of the NW schools. Those can be hard to reach by public transit.

If people are only going because of the location, does the program need to exist?

That's not the question. The question to ask is whether there are barriers to families choosing the option. For instance: if your family does not have a car, maybe you don't put in for a lottery school if it's too fat from your home. If the option is located in a neighborhood that has made it clear you are unwelcome, perhaps you don't want to send your kids there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But the option program at ATS can technically go anywhere. They need a neighborhood scjool closer to Ballston as that area is just going to continue to grow.

Fully agree. There should be walkable elementary schools in the Rosslyn to Ballston corridor. ATS's building is just on the edge of Ballston and should be neighborhood.

They just went through that whole exercise showing that of all sites, ATS meets all (4) criteria of an option school, and is the only site that does.
If you looked at the maps of the walk zone survey you would see that the ATS walk zone overlaps in its entirety with the Ashlawn walk zone.
That neighborhood already has a neighborhood school: Ashlawn, and it’s a darn good school, and walking distance for those planning units.

I agree that ATS site will remain option, but the walk zones don't overlap. https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ES_Arl_Traditional_WZ_Policy_Final.pdf https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ES_Ashlawn_WZ_Policy_Final.pdf

If they are both expanded, as the school board wants, they very nearly will. Except for those parents that lobbied that they want to cross I-66 to walk to ATS - good luck with that. NOT SAFE IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About moving the immersion schools close to the spanish speakers. You all make an assumption (as does the county) that the immigrants who live in the county's lower income housing are spanish speakers. A larger percentage are not.

My kid was at Claremont and a larger percentage of the spanish speakers were middle or upper middle class. They are educated professionals. That is why both Key and Claremont may be 50% spanish speakers, but not 50% free and reduced lunch. At a PTA meeting with a SB member, it was made very clear that if the SB wants more lower income families, it needs to educate those families about the options and why dual immersion is good for them. Many immigrants DO NOT WANT IMMERSION. They want their kids to learn english asap.

It is honestly quite crazy to think that recent non-Spanish speaking immigrants would have ANY interest in foreign language immersion.

It is also quite crazy for a government/school district to contemplate moving several schools and their families to cater to perceived preferred home choices of recent (?) immigrant populations.

This is all about moving Key Immersion to make neighborhood seats. If it wasn't already option it would have been immediately ruled out by the corner of the county criteria applied to Jamestown, Tuckahoe, and Abingdon since there is no where else reasonably close to send Rosslyn and Courthouse. It wasn't an issue before because technically Key was a neighborhood school. The preferences of immigrant populations only comes into play because the program doesn't exist without Spanish speakers.

And what happens if the Spanish speakers at those schools (immigrant or otherwise) decide they just want to go to school close to home and opt to withdraw from the immersion program? What happens then? Does APS have a wildly under-enrolled immersion program?

I don't think they can assume Spanish speakers will continue if they move it up to ATS or one of the NW schools. Those can be hard to reach by public transit.

If people are only going because of the location, does the program need to exist?

That's not the question. The question to ask is whether there are barriers to families choosing the option. For instance: if your family does not have a car, maybe you don't put in for a lottery school if it's too fat from your home. If the option is located in a neighborhood that has made it clear you are unwelcome, perhaps you don't want to send your kids there?

So because another location might be a barrier to someone somewhere, Key school should remain a lottery only option site. The families who live in Courthouse and Rosslyn, many of whom don't drive and many of whom are non-spanish speaking immigrants of limited means should just go ahead and figure out how to get to Taylor for various school events and before and after care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are they going to move Key to the Ed Center location? I thought I read that was a possibility somewhere?

I have not read that anywhere?

As far as I know, the Ed Center will be used for high school seats. Possibly expansion of IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About moving the immersion schools close to the spanish speakers. You all make an assumption (as does the county) that the immigrants who live in the county's lower income housing are spanish speakers. A larger percentage are not.

My kid was at Claremont and a larger percentage of the spanish speakers were middle or upper middle class. They are educated professionals. That is why both Key and Claremont may be 50% spanish speakers, but not 50% free and reduced lunch. At a PTA meeting with a SB member, it was made very clear that if the SB wants more lower income families, it needs to educate those families about the options and why dual immersion is good for them. Many immigrants DO NOT WANT IMMERSION. They want their kids to learn english asap.

It is honestly quite crazy to think that recent non-Spanish speaking immigrants would have ANY interest in foreign language immersion.

It is also quite crazy for a government/school district to contemplate moving several schools and their families to cater to perceived preferred home choices of recent (?) immigrant populations.

This is all about moving Key Immersion to make neighborhood seats. If it wasn't already option it would have been immediately ruled out by the corner of the county criteria applied to Jamestown, Tuckahoe, and Abingdon since there is no where else reasonably close to send Rosslyn and Courthouse. It wasn't an issue before because technically Key was a neighborhood school. The preferences of immigrant populations only comes into play because the program doesn't exist without Spanish speakers.

And what happens if the Spanish speakers at those schools (immigrant or otherwise) decide they just want to go to school close to home and opt to withdraw from the immersion program? What happens then? Does APS have a wildly under-enrolled immersion program?

I don't think they can assume Spanish speakers will continue if they move it up to ATS or one of the NW schools. Those can be hard to reach by public transit.

If people are only going because of the location, does the program need to exist?

That's not the question. The question to ask is whether there are barriers to families choosing the option. For instance: if your family does not have a car, maybe you don't put in for a lottery school if it's too fat from your home. If the option is located in a neighborhood that has made it clear you are unwelcome, perhaps you don't want to send your kids there?

So because another location might be a barrier to someone somewhere, Key school should remain a lottery only option site. The families who live in Courthouse and Rosslyn, many of whom don't drive and many of whom are non-spanish speaking immigrants of limited means should just go ahead and figure out how to get to Taylor for various school events and before and after care.

As much as Key families may object, I don't think there is any way that they can keep it a county-wide lottery option school. That area is too densely populated with more school aged children living in it every year.

The big question is whether they swap it with ASFS, move it to ATS (utilizing trailers if needed) or take the chance on moving it to the NW (and it being under-enrolled). If those are the three options, which would you choose?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are they going to move Key to the Ed Center location? I thought I read that was a possibility somewhere?

I have not read that anywhere?

As far as I know, the Ed Center will be used for high school seats. Possibly expansion of IB.

NP here. Apparently, the SB - or the staff, I'm not clear which - is back to thinking about using the Ed Center for elementary seats, and shifting the high school seats to the Career Center site. I understand that this issue came up at a recent working group meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About moving the immersion schools close to the spanish speakers. You all make an assumption (as does the county) that the immigrants who live in the county's lower income housing are spanish speakers. A larger percentage are not.

My kid was at Claremont and a larger percentage of the spanish speakers were middle or upper middle class. They are educated professionals. That is why both Key and Claremont may be 50% spanish speakers, but not 50% free and reduced lunch. At a PTA meeting with a SB member, it was made very clear that if the SB wants more lower income families, it needs to educate those families about the options and why dual immersion is good for them. Many immigrants DO NOT WANT IMMERSION. They want their kids to learn english asap.

It is honestly quite crazy to think that recent non-Spanish speaking immigrants would have ANY interest in foreign language immersion.

It is also quite crazy for a government/school district to contemplate moving several schools and their families to cater to perceived preferred home choices of recent (?) immigrant populations.

This is all about moving Key Immersion to make neighborhood seats. If it wasn't already option it would have been immediately ruled out by the corner of the county criteria applied to Jamestown, Tuckahoe, and Abingdon since there is no where else reasonably close to send Rosslyn and Courthouse. It wasn't an issue before because technically Key was a neighborhood school. The preferences of immigrant populations only comes into play because the program doesn't exist without Spanish speakers.

And what happens if the Spanish speakers at those schools (immigrant or otherwise) decide they just want to go to school close to home and opt to withdraw from the immersion program? What happens then? Does APS have a wildly under-enrolled immersion program?

I don't think they can assume Spanish speakers will continue if they move it up to ATS or one of the NW schools. Those can be hard to reach by public transit.

If people are only going because of the location, does the program need to exist?

That's not the question. The question to ask is whether there are barriers to families choosing the option. For instance: if your family does not have a car, maybe you don't put in for a lottery school if it's too fat from your home. If the option is located in a neighborhood that has made it clear you are unwelcome, perhaps you don't want to send your kids there?

So because another location might be a barrier to someone somewhere, Key school should remain a lottery only option site. The families who live in Courthouse and Rosslyn, many of whom don't drive and many of whom are non-spanish speaking immigrants of limited means should just go ahead and figure out how to get to Taylor for various school events and before and after care.

As much as Key families may object, I don't think there is any way that they can keep it a county-wide lottery option school. That area is too densely populated with more school aged children living in it every year.

The big question is whether they swap it with ASFS, move it to ATS (utilizing trailers if needed) or take the chance on moving it to the NW (and it being under-enrolled). If those are the three options, which would you choose?

Immersion to ATS and ATS to NW. I know people don't like the idea of giving NW the most super special of all special programs, but there is too much housing development in the pipeline from Rosslyn to Ballston (both market rate and CAF). The seats are needed in the east.

[Anonymous]

What would people think about giving priority admission to choice programs to students from adjacent elementary schools (the schools where, if the option site were instead a neighborhood site, the school's boundaries would likely draw from their zones) when those schools are facing a capacity crisis. So if ATS stays where it is, when any of Barrett, Ashlawn, Reed, or Glebe are facing disproportionate overcrowding as compared to the system as a whole, they are guaranteed that X number of seats in the incoming kindergarten class are set aside for students from their zone, and any students from their zone who don't get a seat through that lottery get put into the general lottery with all the other applicants (so they should end up with more than the minimum number of students getting in, the minimum just sets a guaranteed floor). If seats open up in later grades, waitlisted students from those schools are offered the seat first before it goes to the person at the top of the list from another school. If the program moved to Nottingham, then the priority would go to Tuckahoe, Discovery and Reed instead. If you moved it to Carlin Springs, Campbell/Claremont (depending on which one would become neighborhood) and Barcroft get priority. It wouldn't be a cure-all for whichever area loses potential neighborhood seats to an option program, but would at least help alleviate some of the burden that would result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What would people think about giving priority admission to choice programs to students from adjacent elementary schools (the schools where, if the option site were instead a neighborhood site, the school's boundaries would likely draw from their zones) when those schools are facing a capacity crisis. So if ATS stays where it is, when any of Barrett, Ashlawn, Reed, or Glebe are facing disproportionate overcrowding as compared to the system as a whole, they are guaranteed that X number of seats in the incoming kindergarten class are set aside for students from their zone, and any students from their zone who don't get a seat through that lottery get put into the general lottery with all the other applicants (so they should end up with more than the minimum number of students getting in, the minimum just sets a guaranteed floor). If seats open up in later grades, waitlisted students from those schools are offered the seat first before it goes to the person at the top of the list from another school. If the program moved to Nottingham, then the priority would go to Tuckahoe, Discovery and Reed instead. If you moved it to Carlin Springs, Campbell/Claremont (depending on which one would become neighborhood) and Barcroft get priority. It wouldn't be a cure-all for whichever area loses potential neighborhood seats to an option program, but would at least help alleviate some of the burden that would result.

We just moved away from this system. We're not going back. Options are open, no neighborhood preferences.