Haycock class changes

[Anonymous]

I'm so glad my kids are not at Haycock!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So who do you want to be the principal at Haycock and why do you think any administrator in his or her right mind would take on the job?

We didn't have kids at Haycock, but I have a good enough memory to remember when the parents were attacking Kelly Sheers for not persuading FCPS to build a larger addition at Haycock and instead supporting the move of some of the AAP students to Lemon Road. It seems the parents there are never happy.

Oh lets not dig this up again! That decision came from above. The principal can not change zoning. Janie Straus could have and the arguments to make the school bigger were presented to her and she did NOTHING!

Well, exactly, but the parents went after Sheers for this as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haycock parents sound kind of nuts.

I agree. They sound like they want to have the ability to fire the principal, that they should be able to fire him. I can't imagine that FCPS wants to give them that power.

Teachers must be nuts too then. Direct teacher quote was "Morale is really low and this was the straw that broke the camel's back." This obviously concerns parents.

Out of curiosity, exactly what is it about returning to a more traditional elementary school classroom model that would so negatively impact teacher morale? It's not like teachers get to approve other policies that FCPS leadership adopts.

As for JD's future, if enough parents tell Janie Strauss he's failing as a principal, he'll give notice by mid-summer.

Two things - one is the workload associated with prepping for all subjects rather than one that the teacher specializes in. The much, MUCH bigger issues impacting morale is how this was rolled out without any input from the teachers and no opportunity to provide feedback. I.e., "We're changing the model and I don't want to hear anything from you." Sounds like that's been a pattern over the past 18 months of it and the teachers are tired of it.

That's what principals do. That's the normal way changes are rolled out by principals. Teachers know this, even if parents don't.

Really? This is surprising because the teacher that was speaking has quite a bit of tenure at the school and this is a change. Why would anyone work in an environment where their voice is completely minimized?

Such an arrogant statement. You going get hired to do what you're told, not to decide how things are done. In this case the principal makes the decisions, and the teachers ought to follow, or else find another job. I don't tell my boss how I need to work. The boss tells me what to do and how the boss wants it done.

This is not North Korea, so the teachers should have input, especially because most of the teachers at Haycock are excellent and at least better educated and more knowledgeable than the principal. It's also very hard for them because the principal has a sub-par education, is very inexperienced with very little leadership, and is a terrible communicator and writer. He doesn't need to be liked by the staff or be a truly visionary but at the minimum he needs to gain their respect and know how to manage the staff. He doesn't have what it takes to run a school and his friends in high places can do so much for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haycock parents sound kind of nuts.

I agree. They sound like they want to have the ability to fire the principal, that they should be able to fire him. I can't imagine that FCPS wants to give them that power.

Teachers must be nuts too then. Direct teacher quote was "Morale is really low and this was the straw that broke the camel's back." This obviously concerns parents.

Out of curiosity, exactly what is it about returning to a more traditional elementary school classroom model that would so negatively impact teacher morale? It's not like teachers get to approve other policies that FCPS leadership adopts.

As for JD's future, if enough parents tell Janie Strauss he's failing as a principal, he'll give notice by mid-summer.

Two things - one is the workload associated with prepping for all subjects rather than one that the teacher specializes in. The much, MUCH bigger issues impacting morale is how this was rolled out without any input from the teachers and no opportunity to provide feedback. I.e., "We're changing the model and I don't want to hear anything from you." Sounds like that's been a pattern over the past 18 months of it and the teachers are tired of it.

That's what principals do. That's the normal way changes are rolled out by principals. Teachers know this, even if parents don't.

Really? This is surprising because the teacher that was speaking has quite a bit of tenure at the school and this is a change. Why would anyone work in an environment where their voice is completely minimized?

Such an arrogant statement. You going get hired to do what you're told, not to decide how things are done. In this case the principal makes the decisions, and the teachers ought to follow, or else find another job. I don't tell my boss how I need to work. The boss tells me what to do and how the boss wants it done.

This is not North Korea, so the teachers should have input, especially because most of the teachers at Haycock are excellent and at least better educated and more knowledgeable than the principal. It's also very hard for them because the principal has a sub-par education, is very inexperienced with very little leadership, and is a terrible communicator and writer. He doesn't need to be liked by the staff or be a truly visionary but at the minimum he needs to gain their respect and know how to manage the staff. He doesn't have what it takes to run a school and his friends in high places can do so much for him.

IOW, you agree that parents do not and should not have the authority to fire a principal. (Elementary school teachers don't have "tenure", btw. They have seniority or clout, but not tenure.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haycock parents sound kind of nuts.

I agree. They sound like they want to have the ability to fire the principal, that they should be able to fire him. I can't imagine that FCPS wants to give them that power.

Teachers must be nuts too then. Direct teacher quote was "Morale is really low and this was the straw that broke the camel's back." This obviously concerns parents.

Out of curiosity, exactly what is it about returning to a more traditional elementary school classroom model that would so negatively impact teacher morale? It's not like teachers get to approve other policies that FCPS leadership adopts.

As for JD's future, if enough parents tell Janie Strauss he's failing as a principal, he'll give notice by mid-summer.

Two things - one is the workload associated with prepping for all subjects rather than one that the teacher specializes in. The much, MUCH bigger issues impacting morale is how this was rolled out without any input from the teachers and no opportunity to provide feedback. I.e., "We're changing the model and I don't want to hear anything from you." Sounds like that's been a pattern over the past 18 months of it and the teachers are tired of it.

That's what principals do. That's the normal way changes are rolled out by principals. Teachers know this, even if parents don't.

Really? This is surprising because the teacher that was speaking has quite a bit of tenure at the school and this is a change. Why would anyone work in an environment where their voice is completely minimized?

Such an arrogant statement. You going get hired to do what you're told, not to decide how things are done. In this case the principal makes the decisions, and the teachers ought to follow, or else find another job. I don't tell my boss how I need to work. The boss tells me what to do and how the boss wants it done.

This is not North Korea, so the teachers should have input, especially because most of the teachers at Haycock are excellent and at least better educated and more knowledgeable than the principal. It's also very hard for them because the principal has a sub-par education, is very inexperienced with very little leadership, and is a terrible communicator and writer. He doesn't need to be liked by the staff or be a truly visionary but at the minimum he needs to gain their respect and know how to manage the staff. He doesn't have what it takes to run a school and his friends in high places can do so much for him.

He has degrees from Penn State and George Mason. If you think Haycock is going to attract principals with a doctorate from Yale, you need to pay more and play nicer. Because I’m pretty sure you got what you deserved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So who do you want to be the principal at Haycock and why do you think any administrator in his or her right mind would take on the job?

We didn't have kids at Haycock, but I have a good enough memory to remember when the parents were attacking Kelly Sheers for not persuading FCPS to build a larger addition at Haycock and instead supporting the move of some of the AAP students to Lemon Road. It seems the parents there are never happy.

I was at haycock during that time and this is not how I remember it at all. Kelly Sheers listened to the parents. Parents were not angry at the principal in this case--they were angry at Janie Strauss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So who do you want to be the principal at Haycock and why do you think any administrator in his or her right mind would take on the job?

We didn't have kids at Haycock, but I have a good enough memory to remember when the parents were attacking Kelly Sheers for not persuading FCPS to build a larger addition at Haycock and instead supporting the move of some of the AAP students to Lemon Road. It seems the parents there are never happy.

I was at haycock during that time and this is not how I remember it at all. Kelly Sheers listened to the parents. Parents were not angry at the principal in this case--they were angry at Janie Strauss.

Nope. When she said she supported the move of some kids to Lemon Road, the parents went after her with a vengeance for “throwing kids under the bus.” Granted, most of those families are now at Lemon Road, but that’s how they behaved while they were at Haycock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haycock parents sound kind of nuts.

I agree. They sound like they want to have the ability to fire the principal, that they should be able to fire him. I can't imagine that FCPS wants to give them that power.

Teachers must be nuts too then. Direct teacher quote was "Morale is really low and this was the straw that broke the camel's back." This obviously concerns parents.

Out of curiosity, exactly what is it about returning to a more traditional elementary school classroom model that would so negatively impact teacher morale? It's not like teachers get to approve other policies that FCPS leadership adopts.

As for JD's future, if enough parents tell Janie Strauss he's failing as a principal, he'll give notice by mid-summer.

Two things - one is the workload associated with prepping for all subjects rather than one that the teacher specializes in. The much, MUCH bigger issues impacting morale is how this was rolled out without any input from the teachers and no opportunity to provide feedback. I.e., "We're changing the model and I don't want to hear anything from you." Sounds like that's been a pattern over the past 18 months of it and the teachers are tired of it.

That's what principals do. That's the normal way changes are rolled out by principals. Teachers know this, even if parents don't.

Really? This is surprising because the teacher that was speaking has quite a bit of tenure at the school and this is a change. Why would anyone work in an environment where their voice is completely minimized?

Such an arrogant statement. You going get hired to do what you're told, not to decide how things are done. In this case the principal makes the decisions, and the teachers ought to follow, or else find another job. I don't tell my boss how I need to work. The boss tells me what to do and how the boss wants it done.

This is not North Korea, so the teachers should have input, especially because most of the teachers at Haycock are excellent and at least better educated and more knowledgeable than the principal. It's also very hard for them because the principal has a sub-par education, is very inexperienced with very little leadership, and is a terrible communicator and writer. He doesn't need to be liked by the staff or be a truly visionary but at the minimum he needs to gain their respect and know how to manage the staff. He doesn't have what it takes to run a school and his friends in high places can do so much for him.

He has degrees from Penn State and George Mason. If you think Haycock is going to attract principals with a doctorate from Yale, you need to pay more and play nicer. Because I’m pretty sure you got what you deserved.

How is it that these teachers are better educated and more knowledgeable than the principal? I thought there were standards that have to be met. In some previous post people claim that these teachers have no additional education to do this differentiation, but now they are more educated than the principal. And I'm curious to know how come they know more, and what is it that they know?

No one teaching elementary school in FX county has a doctorate from Yale, be cure about that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So who do you want to be the principal at Haycock and why do you think any administrator in his or her right mind would take on the job?

We didn't have kids at Haycock, but I have a good enough memory to remember when the parents were attacking Kelly Sheers for not persuading FCPS to build a larger addition at Haycock and instead supporting the move of some of the AAP students to Lemon Road. It seems the parents there are never happy.

I was at haycock during that time and this is not how I remember it at all. Kelly Sheers listened to the parents. Parents were not angry at the principal in this case--they were angry at Janie Strauss.

Nope. When she said she supported the move of some kids to Lemon Road, the parents went after her with a vengeance for “throwing kids under the bus.” Granted, most of those families are now at Lemon Road, but that’s how they behaved while they were at Haycock.

OK, that rings a bell. Well, in any case, it seemed to me that she commanded the respect of the community. Maybe people disagreed with her at times and challenged some decisions. (It is definitely a challenging group of parents!) i can certainly understand why she may have wanted to leave. But I never heard even one person wish for her to be removed, nor did I ever hear any comments about mistrust and "low morale." If anything the general feeling as that she fought for our school. Also, the teacher population was relatively stable, which is important to every parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So who do you want to be the principal at Haycock and why do you think any administrator in his or her right mind would take on the job?

We didn't have kids at Haycock, but I have a good enough memory to remember when the parents were attacking Kelly Sheers for not persuading FCPS to build a larger addition at Haycock and instead supporting the move of some of the AAP students to Lemon Road. It seems the parents there are never happy.

I was at haycock during that time and this is not how I remember it at all. Kelly Sheers listened to the parents. Parents were not angry at the principal in this case--they were angry at Janie Strauss.

Nope. When she said she supported the move of some kids to Lemon Road, the parents went after her with a vengeance for “throwing kids under the bus.” Granted, most of those families are now at Lemon Road, but that’s how they behaved while they were at Haycock.

And those parents were not originally at Haycock! They were from a feeder school that got placed at Haycock for AAP. So if you’d like to turn this into an across the board AAP parent issue, regarding multiple schools, fine. The take home issue at last nights meeting was unfortunately not just about changing a program, it was about the PTA(Parent Teacher Association) advocating for the teachers. Haycock is a good school, everyone wants the teachers to stay. Communication needs to be better(principal apologized and stated this several times last night). Respect between admin and teachers needs to be re-established.

[Anonymous]

I chose my house base on the reputation of the school AND principal. The principal has a HUGE impact on a school, better or worse. I know that's crazy because a principal can move on, but I have seen the difference a principal can make and that was important to me. Morale is so important in any job. Sounds like Haycock is experience a similar growth pain, but I have to assume your current principal won't be there much longer based on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haycock parents sound kind of nuts.

I agree. They sound like they want to have the ability to fire the principal, that they should be able to fire him. I can't imagine that FCPS wants to give them that power.

Teachers must be nuts too then. Direct teacher quote was "Morale is really low and this was the straw that broke the camel's back." This obviously concerns parents.

Out of curiosity, exactly what is it about returning to a more traditional elementary school classroom model that would so negatively impact teacher morale? It's not like teachers get to approve other policies that FCPS leadership adopts.

As for JD's future, if enough parents tell Janie Strauss he's failing as a principal, he'll give notice by mid-summer.

Two things - one is the workload associated with prepping for all subjects rather than one that the teacher specializes in. The much, MUCH bigger issues impacting morale is how this was rolled out without any input from the teachers and no opportunity to provide feedback. I.e., "We're changing the model and I don't want to hear anything from you." Sounds like that's been a pattern over the past 18 months of it and the teachers are tired of it.

That's what principals do. That's the normal way changes are rolled out by principals. Teachers know this, even if parents don't.

Really? This is surprising because the teacher that was speaking has quite a bit of tenure at the school and this is a change. Why would anyone work in an environment where their voice is completely minimized?

Such an arrogant statement. You going get hired to do what you're told, not to decide how things are done. In this case the principal makes the decisions, and the teachers ought to follow, or else find another job. I don't tell my boss how I need to work. The boss tells me what to do and how the boss wants it done.

This is not North Korea, so the teachers should have input, especially because most of the teachers at Haycock are excellent and at least better educated and more knowledgeable than the principal. It's also very hard for them because the principal has a sub-par education, is very inexperienced with very little leadership, and is a terrible communicator and writer. He doesn't need to be liked by the staff or be a truly visionary but at the minimum he needs to gain their respect and know how to manage the staff. He doesn't have what it takes to run a school and his friends in high places can do so much for him.

He has degrees from Penn State and George Mason. If you think Haycock is going to attract principals with a doctorate from Yale, you need to pay more and play nicer. Because I’m pretty sure you got what you deserved.

Actually Yale doesn't have a great teaching program, but W&M, UVA, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin all do. It's hilarious that "playing nice" should be a requirement for getting a professional to lead a school. Teachers and parents are not "playing nice" because he lacks leadership and his staff has no respect for him. I highly recommend reading The Culture Code because someone (of course not you PP) should learn how to build trust and cooperation and gain consensus. Also some presentation skills and some prep on how to sell ideas would not hurt either, especially because the parents are pretty educated and find pop behavioral science a joke.

[Anonymous]

I think the meeting was great. These things had to be said. Good teachers have left and are leaving and maybe this allows them to feel like there's more collaboration with the admin and possibilities to make this situation better for them.

As far as looping in the parents, it was a PTA meeting - enough said. And some people are intimating that Haycock parents are the only ones that are competitive or want things - get real. This is everywhere in the area.

The key is how the actions from the meeting are continued and completed. Lots of good ideas came out of the meeting but if there's no structure then nothing will change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No other FCPS elementary allows parents to dictate how the school is run. Principals have wide latitude. Many would not even held a forum to discuss the changes before hand.

Except perhaps Chesterbrook and now they can't find a permanent Principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No other FCPS elementary allows parents to dictate how the school is run. Principals have wide latitude. Many would not even held a forum to discuss the changes before hand.

This isn't about parents trying to run the school - it's about parents advocating for the teachers because the teachers are miserable and the parents know that the teachers are the heart and soul of the school. It just so happens that parents and teachers were equally appalled at how this decision was rolled out. If it was clear that the teachers were on the same page as the principal, I don't think there would be nearly the outcry.